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imamommy

Are you taking my mom back to court?????

imamommy
15 years ago

I've mentioned on the deadbeat mom thread that DH filed for support and BM was served last Thursday. I had called our attorney on Wednesday to have her hold the papers until Monday so SD won't be around BM when she gets served. Too late, they were mailed out already. So, she got them Thursday (called DH and left a message on his phone that if this is how he wants to play, it's gonna get ugly!) and I tell DH, well, maybe she'll calm down by Friday.

Well, we pick up SD on Sunday and she's quiet. She's been ignoring me ever since we picked her up. She wrote a story about her family and how she loves everyone in her family except me. So, I had a talk with her last night and told her that I don't know what I did to make her ignore me but I don't appreciate being treated that way. (let me be more clear, when she wants something, she smiles at me and then asks really nice, once she gets it, she goes back to ignoring me and even caught her glaring at me a couple of times). I told her that I feel hurt that she wants things from me and I do lots of things for her that I don't have to do, but I do them because I want her to be happy and I thought we liked each other. I told her I don't like to feel like I'm being used and if she really doesn't like me, that's okay.. she doesn't have to like me, but I don't have to do anything extra for her either. She didn't say a word to me the rest of the day.

Later, when DH got home, he went to check her homework and spend time with her. He was talking to her about her homework and she looks at him and says, 'ARE YOU TAKING MY MOM BACK TO COURT!?!' He was blindsided and told her court issues are not her concern. SD then starts crying and tells him that her mommy isn't working and doesn't have a job. Again, he tells her it's between the grown ups, not for her to worry about.

So, now that explains why she is angry at me. Her mom has her angry at both of us. My husband is livid to say the least. He can't understand how she can talk to her kids about this stuff. I told him that there isn't much he can do about it, she didn't have a problem having sex with her boyfriend when her kids were in the same room with her and she didn't see it as wrong to let her daughter's read two nasty break up letters her ex boyfriend gave her. DH wants to file contempt charges on BM for discussing things because the court order says neither party is to discuss the court case with the child.

This is mostly a rant because I'm frustrated with my step daughter coming back and being so cold toward me when we've seemed to be moving forward and getting along great. I have my own issues with a fear that history is repeating itself. I've heard of successful step parent/child relationships but my dad treated my stepsister as his own for twenty years and she ended up suing him and cutting him off from her life and her kids, who he was also attached to. It was devastating for him and he was depressed over it for a long time.. I think he still is. And when my exBF cut me off from his kids, I was also hurt. I've tried to reconnect with them but they are not interested. It's very hard to allow yourself to get emotionally involved in someone else's child and when he child seems to be pretending to like you so they can get what they want and then talking crap about you behind your back, it's tough to deal with. I care a lot for my step daughter and sometimes I feel love for her, but it's hard when she goes back and forth and tells her mom that I'm terrible to her when I try so hard to make her whole situation better.

Comments (60)

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I said none of what BM wrote was true, but I think I made a mistake.

    "She wants to live up here with bf and I"

    I think this is true. SD has said she wants to live there because she feels BF is taking her mom away. What SD doesn't realize is that mom has chosen BF over her and if she wanted to be 'mommy' to her kids, she'd have her other daughter. She has full custody of that child but left her with grandma.

    "I cant afford an attorney and lets face it. The one I had was better for you than for me."

    and this is true. Our attorney was trying to reach an agreement with her attorney so they could avoid a trial. She was adamant to not agree to anything less than taking full custody. She wanted DH to have every other weekend and one week in summer. Her attorney told our attorney that if she loses custody, it would be a good lesson for her. I guess they were talking about what would be brought up and how the court might rule. They were talking about BM's BF sleeping in the room with her while the girls were there and neither attorney knew how the court would view that. But it was clear that her own attorney didn't think much of her. He gave his all in front of the judge and I think he did a great job because he kept her from losing anything, even though the court was not impressed at all with her.

  • theotherside
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Why on earth didn't he have a custody and child support order from the beginning. If he were giving her less money than the child support order would have been, that is wrong, and if were giving her more, he had no proof.

    A decent attorney should be working for his client, not making disparaging remarks about her to the other side.

    How do you know your SD is not waking up before 11? To her it would be the middle of the night. I assume she goes to bed before 11.

    If her mother wants custody, and the daughter wants to live with her, I think that is where she should be.

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  • finedreams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    it seems like BM was saying for awhile: i want SD to live with me. i don't see it happening. why doesn't she take SD with her? or is it all talk? and if she wants kids to live with her why her other DD stays with grandma? why doesn't she work???what does she do the whole day? sleep?

  • mom2emall
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "If her mother wants custody, and the daughter wants to live with her, I think that is where she should be. "

    Are you kidding TOS??? Have you read about the things that go on at BM's house? Wearing thongs, trampy clothes, being in the same room as her mom when she is having sex?? Sharing a bed with boys??

    Sometimes kids want things that are not in their best interests. If one of your children who are still at home said they wanted to live with their dad and his gf you would help them pack and say ok??

    GET REAL TOS...your getting more ridiculous with each post on here! Stop trying to find fault in sm's! IMA is a good sm from what I can see, perhaps better than you are a mother in some ways....

  • ceph
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Why on earth didn't he have a custody and child support order from the beginning"

    There's plenty of reasons... I know an excouple who's youngest is 15. She comes and goes between the houses (mostly) as she wishes, they have no formal order, and it's not a problem.
    My brother and his ex didn't have a formal agreement for about 6 months after they split, but worked one out between their lawyers gradually, without court. Neither really cared if they had something formal or not, but since she was really on a control kick for awhile, he thought he would be taking too many risks if he didn't push for one.
    A dear friend of mine has a 1 yo son who they have JUST agreed upon a custody plan. He's been paying support all along, but she was fighting tooth and nail that she wanted full custody and him to have visitation (long story with ridiculous "logic"). Her lawyer finally convinced her that plan is stupid and that she'd never win it in court, so they're doing the paperwork over the next couple weeks on the joint custody arrangement.

    There's lots of reasons to not have a legal custody and CS agreement. I'm not saying they're all GOOD reasons, just that plenty of people never get one, or go for quite a while without one.

  • pseudo_mom
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I do not have any agreement with my ex for the kids never did ... we worked it out support and visitation no lawyers no courts. We were not married but were together for 15 years.

    In IMA's situation 3 weeks after going to court in which mom did not win "full custody" hoping for a windfall in CS just like the older daughter ... she dropped her daughter off with IMA's hubby and said ... instead of you paying me $286 a month keep the kid and your money.

    That was in Sept... hubby didn't want to make waves again I am guessing couldn't afford a lawyer or for whatever reason never petitioned the court for CS. But now they have... and now its "going to get ugly"

    If mom wanted her daughter she wouldn't have dropped her off 7 months ago and said I'll see her on the weekends. She would have kept the order completed in August and stuck to it.

  • mom_of_4
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Absolutely kids dont always want what is in their best interest. It is not always a good idea that just because the child wants to live with one parent and the parent wants the child to live there they should. Now, if there isnt cause for concern I think that the childs wishes should be taken into consideration and respected just as much as the adults fighting over custody. And, in Ima's case I think there is cause for concern and if she really wanted her daughter with her she wouldnt have dropped her at dads and she would always be picking her up when she is supposed to and IMO if she really truly wanted her daughter there she would be calling every chance she had to try and get more time with her daughter... none of which seems to be going on.

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Why on earth didn't he have a custody and child support order from the beginning"

    First, BM didn't even want a custody order (ever). When DH filed for an order (when SD was 8), she was angry and tried to talk him into dropping it. She called up crying and pleading for him not to go through with it and when he said he wanted an order so she can't stop his visits, she went ballistic and tried to intimidate him. She told him he would lose and she'd get full custody because mothers always do and he'd have to get another job to pay all the support they were going to order because it would be more than her first husband pays. (she said since her first husband's order was done 10 years ago, it would be much more today) He told her the only issue was getting an order saying he was the father and giving him his rights. Their agreement up until then was each had their daughter equal time so they each had to provide a place for her to sleep (although my husband had a house with a room, but BM shared a room in her mom's house) and each had to provide clothing, (DH bought her clothes for school and gave BM money for school clothes but later found out she was putting her older daughter's clothes on SD instead of buying her new ones), and each one fed her the same number of meals (or should have) since they had her the same number of days. My husband paid for all her medical costs, including the insurance through his job. BM wouldn't even pay co-pays. and BM has the ability to earn close to what DH earns. He works at a dealership selling parts (he works for mostly commission and a fairly low hourly wage). He's not college educated and she is. She's EMT certified. She was living with her mom so her mom could watch the kids when she worked and DH would have been happy to pay child care so she could work. She's never wanted to work since she gets $1200 from hubby #1 and has NO EXPENSES. With the custody 50/50, the court only ordered him to pay $286 because they imputed minimum wage to her. If they had imputed EMT wages to her, she would have got NOTHING. She might have even had to pay him.

    I think it would be wonderful if ALL parents could get along and live without legal orders and agreements. The kids would be much happier if that were the case but unfortunately, when a parent uses their kids as a weapon against the other parent and threatens to cut them off from their kids, they NEED an order. And let's face it, if they could get along and agree on everything, they'd probably still be together.

    BM threatened DH at least three times in my presence. I asked him 'does she say that a lot?' and he says, 'she's always said that when she gets mad but I don't think she'll do it.'. Well, that's nice until you go to pick up your kid one day and they are gone. When BM spent a month in Texas without her kids, she came back talking of wanting to live there and the only thing keeping her in CA was that my husband sees her daughter. BM's dad lives in Texas, so it was feasible the she could go live there with him. When she threatened my husband after that, I told him that he NEEDS an order since she could very well pack up his daughter and move. There would be nothing he could do without an order. Then she could file for an order wherever she moved to and he'd have to travel there to be heard. Hell, she moved her older daughter away from her dad without the court's permission and they had an order. When the dad protested the move, she told the court she moved to live with her mom and was in school and the court let her stay and keep her daughter with her because her daughter was only a year old at the time.

    [She actually took both her daughters to Texas for ten days just before her custody trial with DH. DH was walking on eggshells because he feared she might say she was moved and they hadn't yet gotten an order. He didn't know if she'd get away with that if she tried. Fortunately, she returned to CA the day before the trial.]

  • organic_maria
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ima your a good SM. Fronting all that cash for activities that even included BM. Guess she doesn't appreciate that eh?
    I have read so many posts here and as well when i met my dh im glad i told him straight out that he is responsible money wise for his kids. Do not involve me. I do not want to be bitter. your kids will always have loyalty to their mother. No matter what a loser she is. ( i have to admit she is better wi th her kids but still a backstabber!) I do not want to pay and then see i do not get appreciated. I helped my DH for 3 years. After that i put a stop to it. The whole situation was draining me until my cousin told me to just put a solid line and not step over it. If the skids get angry for somthing i bought my son...who gives an F. If they hate you for whatever reason. Who give an F. They will never love you like their mother so concentrate on yoru son on your family. If they do not want to be part of it...F them all.
    He's right. Life is stressful day to day. All the BS that comes with divorces from not letting go and all the pettiness is just so ridiculous. Ive taken alot of steps back in the last 2 months. Especially after my Husband daughter and they she is. Acts like Biomom...apple didn't fall far from tree! i act respectful towards her as a human being but other than that, i couldnt' care less anymore about what she does, what she is thinking. My attitude, come visit your dad. Enjoy your time with dad and then go back to mommy and disfunctional family.
    Its sad. Its could have been different. It was different 5 years ago. We we a unit. We went out together and now SS likes to do stuff with us but walks on eggshells cause sister and biomom
    Let both parents scrap it out in court. You have put alot of energy, money, time and love into your SD. Something i pulled the plug in time before it would destroy me.
    But in your case the biomom is a piece of work worse than my husbands ex!!! Having sex in front of her kids..omg. I hope your husband wins in court and put biomom in her place again. I know it hurts the child but i just wish these adult people would just grow up and stop involving the kids!
    My Husbands daughter asked me when we are buying a house. I said when we are ready to buy one and if it takes another 5 years then so be it. She was upset. I told my DH. He said' why is she concerned when we will buy a house? She doesn't want to live with us. She's made it clear. Its none of her business when we will buy our house!' He left the living room . i've never seen him so pist off. He loves his daughter but doesn't like her personality that coming out now. Not one bit and he makes sure she knows. He told her 2 months ago that she will no longer bully her brother. No snide comments. To be respectful towards any human being under this roof. If she didnt' liek, then stay home with mom.
    Ouch...but she needed to hear it. Not from me. But from her dad.
    I was a bit taken aback from my son last weekend. I have an inate gift of just knowing a person whether they have good intentions or not. I've always had this 6th sense. Its been past to my son. I see the way he reacts to certain people. I guess young children have a feel of people as well. He kept pushing his sister (SD) away from him last weekend. or just tolerating her presance. I'm not sure what that means. She went to hug him and he litterly pushed her off. I was shocked and said to SD' maybe he's not in mood' But i know better. i've seen him act like this before. He went and kissed and hugged my SS though. I felt bad for SD cause i saw she was hurt but nothing i could do. If her personality continues going south , i know my son wont like her. Andi wont interfere. If he does't want to hang about with her that is his choice.
    Ima, how old is your SD.? Do your kids get along with her?

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "That was in Sept... hubby didn't want to make waves again I am guessing couldn't afford a lawyer or for whatever reason never petitioned the court for CS. But now they have... and now its "going to get ugly""

    The main reason DH filed to modify child support is they have the current order that he owes BM $286. He paid her in September even though he has SD but didn't pay after that. She told him she moved on September 6 and kept September's child support. DH had his daughter from August 31-September 7 for his week. BM had her first weekend visit on September 7-10 and we've had SD since then. So, we really had SD all of September and BM shouldn't have kept the support for that month. At her request, he hasn't paid anymore to BM but when they got into an argument over her picking up SD early from school, BM told him the reason she needed to take SD out early was to take her to a psychologist. DH told her she has a counselor and asked for the psychologist's name. Because they are supposed to split the cost, DH told her he needs to see a bill so he can pay half (he also wanted proof she wasn't lying about it) but BM refused to tell him and said 'don't worry about it, I'm paying for it.' Then he asked her about the medical bills she still owes on for her counselor and BM tells him "well you haven't paid me my child support in months" and my husband worried that she might file a contempt and force him to come up with several months worth of support all at once because he had no proof she told him to keep it, it was verbal. So he filed to modify the support. He'd be happy if she agreed to pay $200 a month (we spend at least $300 a month just to transport her back from her visits) and he'd enter into an agreement instead of going to court for guideline. She just flat out doesn't want to pay a penny for her kid.

  • finedreams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    BM is nasty, but i agree if mom wants her daughter, she has right to petition for custody. she might not get it but she can ask. espcially if SD wants to be with mom. BM is crazy but not abusive as far as we know.

    as about waking up at night, i wake up from every single noise and people always argue with me that it was very quiet and nobody made a noise. but for me it is noisy enough to wake me up!

    maybe SD wakes up from people talking on the phone or coughing and thinks it is TV. Maybe BM exagerrates, but isn't it possible with 5 adults (and 3 of them are still young) in the house that there is sometimes noise that wakes her up? I would sure wake up if somebody gets home at 2AM, open the door, takes a shower etc

    i do think that if SD does not want to be in dad's house, does not like it there, has hard time with SM and with grown stepsiblings, clearly misses her mom, why not give mom a chance to take her daughter and see if she would have a better time there. if my DD would have so many complains about living in my house house and had such a bad time with me, I would maybe consider her trying to live with dad.

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    BM has a right to petition for custody. But, when there is no reason other than she doesn't want to pay support, and it's going to cost us $300 an hour for our attorney, then it's a waste of money for us. She is willing to go without an attorney so it doesn't cost her anything and she has no reason to change anything. She lives in a house that has no bedrooms, just a loft where she sleeps with her BF. They have up to five kids there on the weekends, sleeping anywhere they can. She has virtually NO chance of convincing a court that it would be best to move SD over there.

    SD may think she'll have fun there because she has a Disneyland environment right now on weekends, but BM is already dropping her off at her BF's parents house on weekends too so she can go out with BF. SD is insecure about her relationship with her mom and wants to be there thinking she can keep BF from taking her mom's attention. She can't, mom is already ignoring her on the weekends. She's coaching BF's kids and dragging SD to the baseball field and leaving her to entertain herself while she coaches with her BF. SD has struggled in school this year because last year her mom would do her homework for her. She is doing well in school but it takes a lot of time sometimes to explain her work to her. Her mom doesn't want to take the time to explain it, she'll just do it for her. SD also has a weight problem. She gains very easily and when she's at her mom's over a weekend, she comes back 4-5 lbs heavier. She broke two zippers this week and today is wearing a pair of pants I had boxed up because they were to loose on her just a month ago. She eats healthy here and her weight is kept in a healthy range. We are already a bit concerned that she's going to come back from summer, grossly overweight. She is very sensitive and was teased when she was younger and she's had her weight under control for about two years. Whenever she's with BM for more than a few days, she can't fit into any of her clothes anymore. She eats lots of junk and sits in front of the TV there. Here, she eats mostly healthy and rides bike, skateboard, etc. She'd prefer to sit in front of the TV all the time eating snacks.

    She doesn't have any problems with me. Her & I get along great until she comes back from her mom with an attitude. Maybe her mom tells her she doesn't have to listen to me. I know her mom tells her all the time that I am not her mom, she is. SD doesn't have any problems with my kids, my daughter hangs out with her sometimes too and she likes to copy her. My daughter has never had a younger sister so she sometimes gets annoyed but when I tell her that SD looks up to her, she kinda likes that. My boys are both working and hardly are around her. and SD is a sound sleeper. DH goes into her room at 10:30 pm to check on her and she's sound asleep. He checks on her every night. She goes to bed at 8:30 pm. The one time she was caught up late, we had gone to visit my dad after she was in bed and she didn't think we'd find out if she stayed up playing. We got home at 10 pm and she was sitting on her floor in the dark with a flashlight playing with her dolls. That's why he checks on her and she is always out, snoring usually.

    As for her missing her mom, she's missed her mom from the day her mom moved away. If her mom wanted her, she would have wanted to take her when she moved or at least before she got served with child support papers. She doesn't have her older daughter with her.. I doubt she really wants her kids there. SD doesn't complain at all about living with us, her mom is making up those things or maybe SD is saying it to make her mom think she hates living here. We talked to her last night and she told me she loves me and doesn't know why she complains about me to her mom. I know she has loyalty conflicts but I think after all she has been through this last year, it would be terrible to uproot her and make her start a new school and be around her mom & BF while they are all lovey dovey over each other. Meanwhile, SD will be sitting there with reality slapping her in the face.

    BM is such a clod that on Sunday when we picked up SD, she & her BF walked SD to the car. As they are turning to leave, BM grabs her BF's hand as they walked back into the house and SD's face dropped. She thinks she's showing us that she's got someone but she's really showing her daughter and oblivious to how it hurts her daughter to see it.

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    BM has a right to petition for custody. But, when there is no reason other than she doesn't want to pay support, and it's going to cost us $300 an hour for our attorney, then it's a waste of money for us. She is willing to go without an attorney so it doesn't cost her anything and she has no reason to change anything. She lives in a house that has no bedrooms, just a loft where she sleeps with her BF. They have up to five kids there on the weekends, sleeping anywhere they can. She has virtually NO chance of convincing a court that it would be best to move SD over there.

    SD may think she'll have fun there because she has a Disneyland environment right now on weekends, but BM is already dropping her off at her BF's parents house on weekends too so she can go out with BF. SD is insecure about her relationship with her mom and wants to be there thinking she can keep BF from taking her mom's attention. She can't, mom is already ignoring her on the weekends. She's coaching BF's kids and dragging SD to the baseball field and leaving her to entertain herself while she coaches with her BF. SD has struggled in school this year because last year her mom would do her homework for her. She is doing well in school but it takes a lot of time sometimes to explain her work to her. Her mom doesn't want to take the time to explain it, she'll just do it for her. SD also has a weight problem. She gains very easily and when she's at her mom's over a weekend, she comes back 4-5 lbs heavier. She broke two zippers this week and today is wearing a pair of pants I had boxed up because they were to loose on her just a month ago. She eats healthy here and her weight is kept in a healthy range. We are already a bit concerned that she's going to come back from summer, grossly overweight. She is very sensitive and was teased when she was younger and she's had her weight under control for about two years. Whenever she's with BM for more than a few days, she can't fit into any of her clothes anymore. She eats lots of junk and sits in front of the TV there. Here, she eats mostly healthy and rides bike, skateboard, etc. She'd prefer to sit in front of the TV all the time eating snacks.

    She doesn't have any problems with me. Her & I get along great until she comes back from her mom with an attitude. Maybe her mom tells her she doesn't have to listen to me. I know her mom tells her all the time that I am not her mom, she is. SD doesn't have any problems with my kids, my daughter hangs out with her sometimes too and she likes to copy her. My daughter has never had a younger sister so she sometimes gets annoyed but when I tell her that SD looks up to her, she kinda likes that. My boys are both working and hardly are around her. and SD is a sound sleeper. DH goes into her room at 10:30 pm to check on her and she's sound asleep. He checks on her every night. She goes to bed at 8:30 pm. The one time she was caught up late, we had gone to visit my dad after she was in bed and she didn't think we'd find out if she stayed up playing. We got home at 10 pm and she was sitting on her floor in the dark with a flashlight playing with her dolls. That's why he checks on her and she is always out, snoring usually.

    As for her missing her mom, she's missed her mom from the day her mom moved away. If her mom wanted her, she would have wanted to take her when she moved or at least before she got served with child support papers. She doesn't have her older daughter with her.. I doubt she really wants her kids there. SD doesn't complain at all about living with us, her mom is making up those things or maybe SD is saying it to make her mom think she hates living here. We talked to her last night and she told me she loves me and doesn't know why she complains about me to her mom. I know she has loyalty conflicts but I think after all she has been through this last year, it would be terrible to uproot her and make her start a new school and be around her mom & BF while they are all lovey dovey over each other. Meanwhile, SD will be sitting there with reality slapping her in the face.

    BM is such a clod that on Sunday when we picked up SD, she & her BF walked SD to the car. As they are turning to leave, BM grabs her BF's hand as they walked back into the house and SD's face dropped. She thinks she's showing us that she's got someone but she's really showing her daughter and oblivious to how it hurts her daughter to see it.

  • organic_maria
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ima your Sd complains to her mom cause she know she'll get attention that way. She'll be on my moms side. She will please her mom this way. Its a way to connect with her mom since she is neglected by her.
    She is obviously insecure and loves her mom but doesn't feel her mom loves her back cause she's either not around or when she is doesn't pay attention to her. Very sad.
    At least you can have a relationship withyour sd. i had a great one years ago but the last year now has soured. If i try to get close to her , like my last attempt was to invite her for coffee night with the girls. We were great for about a month. Then mom got involved i'm sure and since then she keeps her distance. no more coffee , no more shopping downtown...
    To me it was the last straw. Its more of a loss for SD because of Biomom But i now am starting to see biomom personality in SD. And i just really dont like it.
    I'm sorry but those are my feelings. I'm glad she doesn't live here. If it were different , liek a few years ago i would have loved her to live here. But things change. You see she wanted to live with us 3 years ago because her moms common law husband and her didn't get along. But now mom is paying more attention. WHich is good and bad at the same time. So i leave it be.
    I think BM in your case doesn't think when she grabs her BF hand. I honestly believe she is oblivious. And yes i agree with you, your SD sees the grass greener on the other side but doesn't see the consequences of reality. She's dreaming because she wants things she doesnt have.
    How old is your daughter?

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    SD just turned 9. My daughter will be 18 in May.

  • finedreams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    oh my, they have no bedrooms? all sleep together? what a weird arrangement, how do they find houses like that? they would probably be better off renting 2bedroom apartment, I think even one bedroom apt is better because at least there is a bedroom! then sure SD is better off with her dad and you. what a stupid woman pardon me, has no bedrooms!

    too much lovey dovey in front of the kids are "no no". My DD is grown and yet BF is very concious about displaying physical affection in front of her. He told me he thinks it is not classy to do lovey- dovey in front of her. He said to me that he wants DD to know that he cares about her mother, but there are other ways of showing it without smooching in front of the kids. I certainly appreciate it.

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    BM's BF went through a divorce last year and he moved out & rented a very small house (cottage type) with an upstairs loft. He converted a walk in closet for his 5 year old daughter to use as a room and his two boys slept on a futon in the living room down stairs. He only has his kids with him every other weekend. He didn't anticipate BM moving in with him, she moved in just two weeks after he met her. He had a few problems (alcohol~though his ex wife says he's been sober for about two years; and part of the reason she divorced him was he had an addiction to porn sites on the internet and he was making dating profiles saying he was divorced~she doesn't know if he actually cheated on her but he wouldn't stop) He lost his job of 14 years and was almost sued for sexual harassment because he was addicted to porn sites and using his computer at work.

    So, he isn't in a financial position to get a bigger place. Especially since BM doesn't work and contribute. His ex wife says he is paying much less than guideline support because she knows he can't afford to pay guideline and she wanted him to get his life on track.

    Her kids came home and told her daddy was taking a long shower with BM while they were watching a movie in the next room. There's a lot of no no's going on over there. If she were the mom she pretended to be, it would be wonderful for SD to live with her. But SD has many issues because of her. The other day, she wrote a note that she wanted to have sex with a boy from school. SHE'S 9 YEARS OLD!!! I feel like I'm in the twilight zone and this can't be real.

    And Maria, she has modeled after her mom. She not only looks like her but acts like her and now starting to snip at us like her mom. (using same tone of voice and body language her mom uses) and it's hard to deal with. I keep telling myself that she's not her mom and she's only copying her mom. We tell her we love her and we won't tolerate some of her behavior that is rude. We give a lot of leeway when it's around the time she comes back, a day or two to adjust but then ease her back into behaving here. Usually, if I tell her I love her and communicate directly with her and ask her if I've done anything to upset her, she says no and starts treating me well. This last couple of days, I did tell her that it hurts my feelings that she is so nice to me and then goes and complains about me to her mom. She was having problems with a girl at school that was nice to her at school but then talked about her behind her back and when I said that, she 'got it'.

    I understand why she wants to get her mom riled up so her mom will 'fight for her' thus giving her attention, but she also needs to know that others have feelings too. I don't like to be used and she has used me to make her mom angry before. She bragged to her mom how I do her hair in braids and I know (and she knows) it pisses off her mom to hear of the things I do for her. She's starting to work at pissing off her mom, but I don't want to be used for that purpose.

  • justnotmartha
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Ima your Sd complains to her mom cause she know she'll get attention that way. She'll be on my moms side. She will please her mom this way. Its a way to connect with her mom since she is neglected by her."

    This is so likely true. SD would do this for years, but then feel so bad she would come home and tell me what she said, admitting that she just said it because her mom was mad at her for something and she knew it would change mom's tune. For instance, SD would be telling mom about the fun she and I had getting a pedicure and mom would get pi$$y and make SD feel badly -guilty usually- so SD would then turn and say something like "JNM doesn't let me paint my toes black like you do, I like that better." Suddenly all is better and SD is off the guilt train. She would then come home and tell me that, adding she really liked the pink she chose better but she didn't want to make her mom mad or feel bad. How sad is that??

    SD would answer yes each time mom asked if she wanted to live with her, but then come home upset because mom told her they would go see a judge and SD could tell the judge that she she could live with mom. She was scared that would really happen and she would actually have to live with her. Even at 9 she was able to tell what mom wanted to hear and would give it to her as it made SD's life easier when she was with her. She has a big guilt complex and would be all twisted up about 'lying' by the time she got home though, so we had to tell her it wasn't 'really' a lie and we weren't mad so she would feel okay. It used to really upset me, but I realized that for her it was a survival tactic, so I let it go. As long as I knew SD knew the truth I didn't really case what mom thought of me.

    How is it again that these selfish, self-centered people deserve these kids again?

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "DD saw the papers on the counter and asked what they were. I told her. I am not going to hide things from my kids."

    When I saw this, I immediately thought of theotherside. When the kids are given these 'adult' issues to think about, they aren't being allowed to just be kids. They don't usually need anyone to point out to them who is right or who is wrong. They figure it out eventually. I loved my husband's response that he sent BM last night.

    DH wrote:

    "Court papers should not be lying around where kids can get and read them, especially DD. It isn't hiding anything from her to ell her it's not for her to worry about. She has enough to worry about. Perhaps you should just tell her it's between mommy and daddy if she asks. Maybe you should spend your time with her doing fun things instead of discussing something that is upsetting to her and she has no control over."

  • theotherside
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kids worry when they DON'T know what is going on.

    Any kid with half a brain and a bit of initiative, would, if a parent said, "It's between mommy and daddy," would ask "why? Why are you telling me? What is so bad that I shouldn't know? Why aren't you telling me?" Then they would come up with possible scenarios, most of which would be far worse than whatever you are hiding from them, and they would say, as my child said, in another context, "There is nothing worse that parents can do than lie to their kids, even lying by omission."

  • pseudo_mom
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If it was never discussed with/in front of/within earshot of the child.....

    the child would not even have questions...

    and if the papers weren't left out they wouldn't be able to find/see them to ask questions about ....

  • theotherside
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    They would never have any questions about the divorce just because no one discussed it in front of them? Yeah, right. H

    My kids ask questions about all manner of things I have never discussed with them. Constantly. I would guess that during an typical conversation, they ask me a how or why question about every 60 seconds.

    My kids have asked how much I earn. How much I get in child support. How is child support computed. What is my mortgage payment. What is my interest rate. How do you pay for a house - what is a downpayment, etc. How do tax brackets work. How much do we spend in groceries. How much do you have to put down on a car. How old do you have to be to get a loan. How much money is withheld from wages, and what does it go for. My twelve year old asks her siblings in college a constant stream of questions about their courses, especially economics. Ask her a question about tax credits and she likely knows the answer.

    These are just some of the questions my kids have asked as middle schoolers or before. They want to know every detail about how every facet of life works.

  • theotherside
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't know where that random H came from in the first line.

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    BM and DH were never married and there is no reason to discuss child support when the custody issues were resolved almost a year ago.

    Sure, if they were married and getting divorced (or even not married but breaking up), the kids would have questions about what's going to happen to them, but they sure don't need the details of why the parents are getting divorced.

    Would it be better to tell them:

    a. Daddy and mommy have grown up problems that have nothing to do with you and we are not going to be married anymore, but we are always going to be your mom & dad and we both love you and always will. Someday you will understand.

    b. Daddy is divorcing mommy because he broke his vow to be faithful to mommy and now he's going to go live with his new girlfriend. (and make sure they know mommy didn't want the divorce)

    How much you earn.

    Why do they care? Are they going to follow in your footsteps and have a similar career so they need to know? Or do they want to compare your earnings to their friends' parents? If they want to follow your footsteps, it might be appropriate to discuss it but otherwise, what good does it do for them to know? Kids sometimes broadcast that info to kids at school.

    How much you get in child support:

    Why would they care unless you complain about not ever having enough money? Or are they trying to equate how much their father loves them by how much he pays for them? I think that would make them feel like property that is being bought. But that's just me.

    How is child support calculated:

    The guideline formulas are sometimes complex and why would they care? Again, unless they are worried they will have to pay child support or receive it (the adult children), why would it matter?

    Mortgage payment:

    If my kids asked me how much my mortgage payment is, I'd ask them if they plan on paying it. Wow, what nosy kids!!!

    Interest rate:

    I might discuss interest rates with the kids. It's good to discuss how the economy affects it and how credit scores can affect what it costs to purchase things on credit. This is a good topic for kids.

    How to pay for a house and downpayment:

    There's nothing wrong with talking about the real estate market in general, what the terms are and how the process works. It's also good for kids to know this.

    How tax brackets work:

    Older kids (or grown kids) might be interested. My kids have never asked about tax brackets. I guess if I complained my ex was in a higher one and I was at poverty level, then maybe my kids would want to know what the difference is. I learned about tax brackets when I was in my 20's and did my own taxes.

    How much is spent on groceries:

    My stock answer is 'too much' but honestly, my kids have never asked me. I might tell them because if I see them wasting food, I want them to know what things cost and now I'm throwing them away because they left them out and they spoiled. I've never told them I spend a set amount each week, but I do remind them that groceries are expensive and I don't like to throw food away. I hate waste.

    How much to put down on a car:

    This would be something to discuss with grown kids. Unless you are financing a car for a teenager, or the teenager is buying the car and has to come up with a down payment, they don't seem to care much. Personally, I wouldn't finance a car for a child. (maybe if they have a job and are making part or all of the payment... maybe)

    to get a loan:

    I can't imagine a kid asking this... Maybe an older teen that wants a car. I'd tell them they have to have a job first and 18 to enter into a contract. Of course by the time they get that age, they already think they know everything anyways. None of my kids have ever asked me that. My son did ask for me to co sign a loan so he must have been able to figure it out himself.

    How much withholdings from wages:

    How the hell do you answer that? I'm almost 40 and can't tell. Maybe if you are an accountant or do payroll but it depends on what tax bracket and how many exemptions you put on a W4. I guess you could say that but then they'd probably be more confused. My answer... you'll know when you get your check.

    what does it go for:

    What do you say? There's no specific way to answer it. It goes to run the government and programs to help people, fix the roads, police & fire trucks.

    I'm all for sharing information on how the world works with our kids but they don't need to know that daddy cheated or if daddy left because mommy got fat or if mommy cheated or if mommy or daddy was lousy in bed, or if mommy spent too much money or daddy was doing his secretary... That's too much information.

    There's no reason to tell your children anything about the other parent that they love, that puts them in a bad light and upsets the child. Kids have a way of figuring it out on their own and we don't have to tell SD that mommy would rather be with her boyfriend than her, she is figuring it out for herself.

    and as for BM leaving the papers out, that is a lie. I have all sorts of court papers around my house and SD has never asked me what any of them are. SD told DH that her mom told her about court and she never saw any papers. BM just said that and again, she puts it back on her daughter. Blames the daughter for seeing it and asking what it is. She can't even say, 'yeah I told her, she has a right to know.' if that's what she believes. Why lie about it and put it on the child? BECAUSE SHE KNOWS IT WAS WRONG.

  • theotherside
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Would it be better to tell them:

    a. Daddy and mommy have grown up problems that have nothing to do with you and we are not going to be married anymore, but we are always going to be your mom & dad and we both love you and always will. Someday you will understand.

    b. Daddy is divorcing mommy because he broke his vow to be faithful to mommy and now he's going to go live with his new girlfriend. (and make sure they know mommy didn't want the divorce)"

    Assuming it is the truth, b, of course.

    Perhaps my kids are more curious than most, but they ask about almost EVERYTHING they see or hear, whether I say something, or they read it in the paper or hear it on TV or at school. Why would anyone tell them that any of their financial questions were none of their business? By the time I was 14, I was doing my parents' income taxes - I don't see why it would be odd for a middle schooler to ask about tax brackets or mortgage loans. Most of my kids started filing taxes themselves by their late teens. Why is it strange that they want to know how much I earn? (I wouldn't care if they shared it with their friends - it is public information anyway, since I work for the government. Since you presumably contract with the court system, the amount you get paid per serve and the number of serves you do must be public information as well).

    Yes, there is a specific way to answer how much comes out of your taxes. A fixed percentage comes out for social security (unless you work for the government) and another fixed percentage for Medicaid (whether you work for the government or not). Then there are all the other deductions such as health insurance. There may be a lot of them, but the answer is pretty straightforward.

    I don't understand the question "why would they want to know?" They want to know for the same reason they want to know why the sun sets in the west or why the sky is blue - because the question is there. Knowledge doesn't have to have an immediate practical application to be interesting.

  • pseudo_mom
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I went for a loan today damn interest rate is going to kill me. I might have to adjust my withholdings so I can come up with the downpayment for the mortgage. If I received as much child support as joe schmoe's mom we would be in a higher tax bracket... etc etc. if after hearing a conversation like that my kids/stepkids might have questions about such things.

    Just because they want to know doesn't mean you have to answer.

    And as far as not asking questions about divorce ... I cannot answer if they would or would not because mom discussed every issue concerning the divorce with her children so I do not know first hand if they would or would not ask about divorce and court procedures.

    I know my kids didn't ask about CS or visitation wasn't a problem for us we just did it ... so again I don't know from experience if kids do or do not ask about divorce since I wasn't married to their dad.

    Yes my kids asked how much I earned I told them none of your business unless you are going to pay the bills you don't need to know.

    As SM's we are not supposed to discuss anything with the children so our standard answers are go ask mom, go ask dad, thats between your mom and dad.

    So again BM is right ... doesn't matter what the topic ... BM right BF and SM wrong ... we get it already.

    Unless BM is the one posting ...
    My ex is pist off I was having sex in front of our child.
    My ex is pist off I dress my daughter like a tramp.
    My ex is pist off I left town 7 months ago.
    My ex is pist off I do not pay any CS.
    My ex is pist off I discuss everything with MY children.

    Even then I am sure you would defend the BM.

  • finedreams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    DD was always very curious about the world, always wanted to know everything there is to know, but she never cared about CS or custody. I told her how much i make just to give her an understanding of how much person needs to make to pay the bills. She sometimes seems to think that people can survive making like next to nothing. She knows how much dad makes only because he had to send her his statements for some legal purpose. She never cared otherwise. She does not know what he paid or didn't pay in CS, I never compalined about it in her presence.

    She does not know the details why and how we divorced, she knows we were having difficulties and it seemed like a good idea to not be together at that time. She knows we were very young. She does know why dad divorced his 2nd wife: TOW. He told her. DD is 20 and he moved in with TOW, so there was no reason of hiding it. But DD is 20, not 9. Big difference.

    There are things we do have to tell grown children but there ways of explaining things to young kids without going into painful details.

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Since you presumably contract with the court system, the amount you get paid per serve and the number of serves you do must be public information as well)."

    No, I don't contract with ANYONE. I own my company and the customer calls me directly, I give them my price (depending on service), they arrange for me to get the job from them (I expect prepayment unless I do work on a regular basis for them), and my income can vary from day to day, month to month. So, no my income is not public information. My price list is public because I list it on my website so out of state clients can check before they call because it cuts down on people calling me for my prices, which can take up a significant part of my day (and I use my cell phone as my business phone so getting tons of those calls eats up my minutes.)

    The only time I've discussed my current income with my kids is with both of my son's. I offered to have them work with me because they were old enough to become registered. I've never told them how much I make a year and they don't need to know. Since you don't mind the world knowing, theotherside, why don't you tell everyone here exactly how much you made last year? I'm sure you've filed your taxes... and can you tell us all how much you got back, if any???

    I mean, I remember kids at school when I was a kid, bragging about my daddy is better than your daddy... we live in a bigger house... or drive a _____... or we are 'rich'. and if the kid actually has accurate information, they could be broadcasting to the other kids in school. I've always told my kids that they have nothing (all kids), the parents do. and I think we all know that wealthy parents can still raise lazy bums that don't work.

    Now, if they want to discuss what it costs to live, I have helped them write up a budget because there are lots of things they don't think about when they say they want to go get their own apartment because they don't like following my rules. (of course I also tell them that apartment complex's have just as many rules if not more than I do, they just aren't the same ones)

    But kids don't need to know if you pay your child support or how much. My son once came back and told me that his dad says he pays child support so my son thought he should be able to have what he wanted. He told me, 'my dad pays xxx and you have to use his money on ME.'. Well, I guess I could have been honest with him and said that 'no, your dad hasn't paid child support since you've been born. He owes me $XXXXXXXXXXX in back support and won't get a job on the books because they'll attach his wages and he doesn't want to pay anything for you. He lets me struggle on my own to take care of you and then lies to you and tells you he pays his child support?' and maybe I could add some rotten names to call him????

    But, I knew he loved his dad and I didn't want him to be hurt to know his dad was lying to him. I didn't want him to think his dad didn't want to provide for him. Perhaps the reason he refused to pay was because he didn't want to give ME money but was willing to provide for my son when he was over there. But my son would have been hurt by me telling him the 'truth' and even now, he's 21 and not long ago he brought up the child support. He told me that if I drop the back support his dad owes, his dad can get a job. His dad actually told him that it's MY fault he can't work. He hasn't worked in over 20 years and he's still putting my son in the middle. What do I tell my son? 'that's between me & your dad.'.

  • mrsmaddog
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We do tell our kids certain things, such as it takes X amount of work to pay for Y. They have a pretty decent concept, but are oddly very curious about taxes, and I think it's because of the TV.
    My SC know ALL the ugly details about DH's divorce.Most of it is their BM's version, a lot of lies and half-truths, some her perception of events.I personally feel some of DH's family members talked about it too much. There was, and sometimes still is, a lot of BM trashing : over her affair, resulting pregnancy, and choosing TOM instead of staying with DH. I may not like her, but none of these people lived in her marriage! I don't approve of how she ended her marriage, but I wouldn't rub her kids faces in it.I think it harms children to constantly remind them what a piece of trash you think their parent is.

  • ceph
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    About grocery costs...
    When I was a kid, asking my mom why she chose certain sizes and certain brands, she showed me the part of the price tag on that grocery store shelf that says "$0.51/100g" for the larger package and "$0.63/100g" for the smaller package, and explained that if it's something that you'll use up before it goes bad, it's money-wise to buy the larger package... But if you only drink 1L of milk before it goes bad, there's not sense in buying the 4L, just because it's a "better deal".
    I remember this conversation quite clearly, but know we still lived out on the farm, so I must have been between 7 and 10.
    I would be with my mom at the checkout, so I'd see how much was spent on groceries, and I recall discussing that this bill was higher or lower because of certain things we bought that day.

    So, there's ways to address these sorts of questions, without saying "we spend $500 per month on groceries" or whatever. Plus, I learned a lot about spending wisely on your food from how my mom addressed my questions about grocery bills.

  • theotherside
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ima,

    The court isn't your "customer?" It must work very differently in my state. When I was served with divorce papers, not only was it by someone from the sheriff's office, which I know is different from California, but the papers came from the county court. I am sure my H had to pay the court something to file them, but he didn't deal directly with the sheriff's department.

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't serve papers for the court. In CA, the spouse that wants the divorce (or their attorney) fills out the papers, takes them to the court (I have been hired to take them to the court), the court 'files' them and creates a case number & file. Usually, the papers go back to the person that filled them out and they have to be served. Some Sheriff's departments still serve papers, the county I live in, they don't. It's usually up to the person or attorney's office to arrange for service, although some courts in other states might still do this. The sheriff's department charges for their service as well, but they only make 3 attempts during business hours and will return the papers unserved if they go out three times when nobody is home. (which usually happens if the person works) I know that for small claims, the clerk will send it registered to the defendant but if they don't pick it up (and the envelope says 'small claims' on it so they can refuse it), they have to be served. And he may have dealt directly with the sheriff. When I had my son's father served, I mailed the papers to the sheriff's department myself. The courts here won't serve or arrange service of papers. Like I said, other states may do differently.

    I do know that counties contract with process serving companies to serve for them, usually the DA's office, Child support, etc. but the papers don't 'come from' the court. They are filed by the court, have the court information on them and are stamped by the court but the court is not divorcing you, your husband is. The papers are coming from your husband. He is the 'customer' and if the courts in your state send them to a process server or sheriff's department for service, he is still the customer, not the court. The court would only be the middle man. When the court clerk sends a small claims out (as service), the 'customer' which is the plaintiff, pays them to send it out.

  • theotherside
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If the process serving companies contract with the court, their financial receipts from the court would be public information.

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The only thing that is 'public' information is when I sign a proof of service, some of them (not all) ask what the service costs. I guess if you know every case I have served and pull each file and take your calculator to add it up (and make sure you go to EVERY jurisdiction that I've served for because I've served in at least six counties and several other states.) and then you might figure out a fraction of what I actually earn.

    Why do you want to argue over something so dumb? Don't you have better things to do with your time? I already said I don't contract with the court and even if a process serving company does, and you can get the amount the court pays them, it means NOTHING unless the court is their ONLY client and they don't do anything but serve. If they are employees of the county or court, that's a different story altogether.

    But honestly, who cares? You can't prove your point because I own my business and it's not public record. and you still haven't shared YOUR income...

  • theotherside
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Why would I want to share my income with a stranger on a message board? Why would you care, for that matter? I am fine with my neighbor, my kids, and my co-workers knowing what I earn.

    I just don't get the problem with having your kids know how much you earn or what you spend on groceries. It doesn't make any sense to me.

  • mrsmaddog
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    DD11 is always telling me stories about the kids in her class comparing who is "richer." Our community is hardly a wealthy one. They use possessions as a sign of wealth: who owns the most vehicles, TVs, computers, biggest house, etc. I told her that it may look like those things mean someone has money, but it might also mean they are in debt up to their neck! Our society is very fixated on money. Kids in our youth group from church thought my DH was loaded because he's spring for 15-20 slurpees or a couple of pizzas every so often. WooHoo.Most of these kids families live in "poor" neighborhoods, but drive new SUVs and have big-screen TVs. What they don't see is the money their parents waste on lottery tickets, booze or starbucks.

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't care what you make, but the point is that once your kids, neighbors or co workers know, then how do you prevent them from sharing it with strangers. I would rather share my personal information anonymously on a message board than having my kids or co workers talking about it and possibly gossiping... as a lot of co workers and neighbors might do.

  • theotherside
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would rather share my income with people I know. But I would be glad to tell you that my federal refund was about $100 - which means I did a good job of estimating my withholding.

  • ceph
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL - my federal refund was also about $100 - but that just means I'm a broke@55 student.

  • kathline
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I had to pay about a hundred dollars :P

    We freely discuss what our income is with our children, and also what our expenses are. Our family is very much like TOS when it comes to the things that she will discuss, or the things she allows her kids to do, etc. We really dont sweat the small things here, and I am sure some of you would consider us far too permissive for your liking. Things like doing laundry in the middle of the night, or eating ice cream for breakfast, or a number of other things people have complained about on here , wouldnt even be a mild irritant in our home. The motto in our home is "everyone gets a say" All I can say is, it works for us. My family, including my adult kids and now adult foster kids, are all extremely close. I didnt have any major problems with them while they were in their teens, and the few minor problems we did have were easily worked through because our whole family communicates very well. It works for us. The kids turned out well. I think it is probably working well for TOS 's family as well. In my opinion, the relationship is far far more important than the rules, and the greatest gift you can give your child is NEVER give up on them. Kids, both as teens and as adults, will find their own way, and it may not be the way you would have chosen. Some kids it takes longer than others. They need you on their side, cheering them on, helping them back up when they fall. They dont need to be told that they are doing it wrong and that they are screwing up, or will screw up. ANyway, off my soapbox about that. Its one of my pet peeves. Parents dont believe in their children nearly enough.

    But I do think that support issues, and court fights are not something that should be left lying around where kids can get involved, nor do I think they should be discussed except in general terms. By drawing kids into the discussion, it only heightens their sense of insecurity about their parents divorce, and their place in each family. They will get only one side of an issue and be forced to pick a parent to support, over issues which really shouldnt be something they are concerned about.

    Ima's husband was right to file this case, firstly because both parents should be supporting their daughter, and secondly because as it currently stands, he is obligated to pay bm support, and she doesnt even have the child. BM can, and probably will, insist on being paid the back payments that hubby hasnt paid, and she has a fairly good chance of getting it, since court orders are all that seem to matter. Maybe thats what she means by it will get ugly. Imas husband needs to get the order changed, plain and simple. I dont know why anyone would think otherwise.

    The child in this case doesnt need to be privy to every detail about this. It seems that BM thinks the child is a confidant and buddy, rather than a kid who needs to be able to look up to BOTH parents.

  • theotherside
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kathline,

    "In my opinion, the relationship is far far more important than the rules, and the greatest gift you can give your child is NEVER give up on them."

    That is such a beautiful sentiment, and so true. I am sure that your home must have been a warm and welcoming place for the children and teens to grow up in.

  • finedreams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    kathline's words are wise as usual. :) so nicely put..

    as about what to eat for breakfast. i sometimes eat stuff for breakfast that make people look at me like I am crazy. i often do not see difference between breakfast and other times of the day, which means I might eat something what other people eat for desert, snack, dinner or whatever. My SIL always eats chocolate candy with her coffee for breakfast.

  • mom_of_4
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    chocolate candy with her coffee ... its like homemade starbucks :-)

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Things like doing laundry in the middle of the night, or eating ice cream for breakfast, or a number of other things people have complained about on here , wouldnt even be a mild irritant in our home."

    Eating ice cream for breakfast was not the issue. The issue was allowing her to eat as much as she wanted and she ate so much that she got sick and was throwing up... then missed a day of school so I or my husband, being the custodial parents, would miss a day of work because the school has a policy that a child cannot come back to school for 24 hours after they vomit. BM didn't feed SD any food on Easter Sunday and all she ate (until we picked her up and took her to dinner) was Easter candy from her basket. She didn't get sick and we didn't complain or criticize, even though I don't think it's right, she's the mom and can do that if she wants in her home. If SD got sick again and threw up from eating too much candy and it affects me or my husband being able to work or causes SD to have to go to the doctor, then YES, it would be a problem.

    That may not be a mild irritant to you, but when our income depends on us being able to work (DH is on commission and I am self employed) and BM isn't contributing a damn penny but causing us to miss time from work and have unnecessary medical costs, it's more than a mild irritant to us. It is something that is preventable. (not to mention what it puts her daughter through to get sick like that)

  • kathline
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    With all due respect, Ima, I was making a comment about what would bother my family, or not. Its none of my business what goes on in your house. I hope you give my advice all the consideration it deserves :) , since I really dont know you. I know when I read advice here, I think about it, but I certainly dont take it personally, since all situations are different, and admittedly, the stories here are only one side of a story.

    You react to comments that are not specifically intended to knock you. I have noticed a number of times that you always feel the need to defend yourself. Not everything that people post here is a criticism, but often you do seem to take it personally. I wonder if its that way with your dealings with BM as well.

    That being said, my own personal opinion is that I think you are WAY too involved in what goes on at BM's house. Even if the BM feeds her daughter chocolate sandwiches and caviar, its not your place to knock that. Its HER daughter. She has two parents, even if you think BM sucks as a parent. Your inclination to attempt to micromanage everything in your SD's life is at least part of the problem. Your husband and his ex both are quick to blame the other...didnt you tell us BM complains about what YOU feed the kid? From your past posts, your husband is quick to sling off angry emails every time BM does something that pisses him off. No one is taking the high road. Its one thing to disapprove of it, but another to make an issue of it. I disapprove of many things, but I keep it to myself.

    I think your SD's mom is wildly inappropriate to be discussing support with her. But you cant make her stop it. All you can do is control how you respond.

    Has it ever occurred to any of the three of you that your anger should be for bigger things? You like to be in control, but some things cant be controlled. What someone else does in their own home, with their own child, is one of those things. ITs just going to make you frustrated. The other thing that cant be controlled, and we ALL need to remember this, is the actions of another person. We can only control our response to them. That is true whether its our children, our husbands, our extended families, our bosses, EVERYONE. Trying to change people is an exercise in futility.

    Now, she may be a sorry excuse for a mother, but she still is the girls mom, and she has the right to have no interference on what happens in her house with that girl, even if you disapprove. You have some legitimate things to complain about, and of course you can disapprove of anything, but if you react to the little things, you lose credibility on the big things. Your SD is the one being stuck in the middle of three angry adults, who cant stand each other. Not everything is a battle, or shouldnt be. Kids of divorce whose parents get angry at each other over everything, are the ones who have the most problems.

    As another note, Its pretty silly to try to blame the reason for someone throwing up. My stepsons , stepfather sent us a nasty email because their son threw up in the truck on the way home from visiting us and somehow it was obviously our fault for having the boy on a car trip ( pauses to roll eyes). No matter that everyone in our home ended up throwing up within the next few days - can we say stomach flu?

  • finedreams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    kathline, you are so right...I am pretty sure that I would find number of people who would disaaprove the way I raised DD and the way I ran my household. I had very few rules and even those few rules I was inconsistent about. If somebody would really want to make a case out of my parenting, they could easily make me sound like less than perfect parent. Luckily no one did.

    I had one major argument wiht X in 20 years of DD's life (we were divorced since she was 4). And it is not because X is so great. Nope, he did so many things that people describe here: not picking up on time, not sticking to a schedule, not planning, planning wrong, not taking care of DD by my standards, oh A LOT. But since there was no abuse or neglect I kept it to myself with the exception of one time last year. If i would start the same pitty nit picking over everything what he did in his household etc I can only imagine damage it could do to DD.

    Oh and by the way DD used to gain weight every time she went to dads and lose weight every time she was with me. If we would want to make a fuss over it, I could accuse him of overfeeding her and he could accuse me of not feeding her enough.

    This battle could be never ending...

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well Kathline, when you say "things people have complained about on here" and mention the 'ice cream for breakfast' which was clearly something I complained about, I'm not just taking a vague comment personal, unless there were others here that complained about ice cream for breakfast. and of course when you put it the way you did,(like that was the issue), I wanted to make it clear that it was not the issue.

    It's not hard to decipher that the reason she was throwing up when she told us she ate as much as she wanted (we asked if mom put it in a bowl and she said said mom was still in bed and she ate from the carton with a spoon. She told us that she felt sick the rest of the day and wouldn't eat any dinner. She had also made herself a tuna sandwich without draining the tuna. She said she only ate a few bites because it made her feel more sick. When she threw up, it looked like melted chocolate ice cream. Yes, I can say stomach flu. I've had it and so has she. It wasn't stomach flu.

    Nobody sent BM any nasty emails. DH sent her an email asking her what was going on because SD told him 'her side' and he wanted to get BM's side. She blew up and told him it's none of his business what she does in her house. Normally, we both agree with that. He doesn't call/email her when she lets SD stay up all night playing video games or watching movies. He doesn't call/email her when BM lets her watch R rated movies, He doesn't call/email her when she feeds her whatever she wants. He doesn't call/email her when SD doesn't take a shower/bath or brush her teeth all weekend because it won't kill her to miss a day or two.

    He has emailed her over issues he felt were serious enough... 1. She let her BF's kids sleep on the bed with her daughter the very first time they were all in the same house. 2. She was telling her daughter that she was moving over to her house after Christmas and the daughter was telling everyone at her school she was moving when she wasn't. BM hadn't even discussed it with him. 3. DH let her know (after letting it go twice) that she can't keep picking up their daughter early from school for no reason other than she wants to. 4. and he told her that SD got sick from the ice cream and suggested that SD should be supervised in the kitchen so she won't get sick. (Besides the fact that SD has issues with food)

    and yes, BM complained that I gave her daughter peanut butter & jelly sandwiches in her school lunch and oatmeal for breakfast. She said I was being abusive. Nobody has ever told BM she was being abusive in any way. We may think it's inappropriate and borders on neglect but that wasn't said to her. In fact, what I did say to her when she accused me of abusing her daughter is that a concerned mother that thought her child was being abused for 'weeks' like she said, would have called CPS or the authorities and not wait until my husband tells her she can't pick up her daughter from school early to start making those sort of accusations. I guess if you want to say that telling her that is being nasty, then I guess I'm guilty. I used the CPS word and that's the context in which I used it, I didn't threaten to call CPS on her, I told her she should call on me if she thinks I'm abusing her child. (my husband did tell her one time that if she isn't going to respond to any of his concerns, he'd have it investigated to make sure his daughter is safe)

    Oh yeah, and my husband did email her about SD saying she rode on the cardboard tied to the back of BM's truck and about discussing the child support issue with their daughter.

    Nobody can change someone else and I don't think I have ever thought I could. However, I do believe in debating one's point and through explaining philosophies or reasoning, it can change other's points of view. My point of view has been changed on some issues from what others have posted here, where a point was brought up that I may not have thought about before. Isn't that what a forum like this is for? Isn't this forum here to vent? Get advice? Share?

    I believe in the beginning, I wrote this is more of a vent, as I know that nobody can stop BM from what she says. and you are entitled to your opinion that I am WAY too involved in what goes on at BM's house. The fact is, I'm more concerned about what goes on at MY house. I'm WAY more concerned about how my SD feels about the whole situation and her difficulty in dealing with it. When BM cancels a weekend to go coach her BF's kid's baseball team, or when she says she can't pick her up from school like she's supposed to and wants to pick her up at our house, and then comes later than she says, it affects me because we usually make plans ahead of time and now we are left to 1. explain to SD that her mom can't make it or is going to be late, which always is met with crying and her being upset. BM won't do her own dirty work. She just doesn't show up and we are left to explain. 2. if we have plans, we have to change them to include SD and occasionally, it's a problem. Especially if we have tickets or reservations somewhere. She's ruined our plans many times and upset/disappointed her daughter more times than I can count.

    I don't take everything as a criticism that I respond to and I don't think I get defensive. Perhaps it sounds that way or can be interpreted that way, but I don't think I have anything to be defensive about. I may have an opinion or if I feel something I said is taken out of context, I will try to explain my position better. As for my dealings with BM, I don't deal with her, my husband does. I didn't have a child with her, he did.

  • doodleboo
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kathline,

    You are right when you say every situation is different but I will say this. In some cases, the Bio Parents does in fact SUCK. This is true in my case. Biomom is a mentally disturbed drug addict that makes horrible decisions concerning her children. That is the reason she has not been able to see them for the past month. Her visitations have been haulted untill we can arrange to have supervised visits and she checks into a sobriety clinic and gets counseling. I don't care is she is the girls mother, she is a awful parent. I just refuse to believe that just because a person gives birth they should be put on a pedestal. Yes the girls have two BIRTH parents but they DON'T have a MOTHER. I am sorry. Thats just how I feel. There are alot of cruddy birth parents out there just the same as there is alot of cruddy steps. The only difference is the birth parents didn't use protection.

    I am real bitter on this whole Bio Parent worship thing because I have witnessed too many times this woman screw her own kids over, put them in PHYSICAL danger and emotionally wreck them. She IS NOT a mother. Mothers protect and nurture....not mindf*** their children.

    P.S. They call me mom and I really don't care if it DOES piss Biomom off. If she cares she will get her act together for her children.

    P.S.S. I talk to their teacher all the time. I am the one helping to pay for the schooling so you are DAMN right I am going to talk to their teacher. Excuse me if THATS wrong.

  • finedreams
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    honestly is not intended to offend but if anyone would force me to eat peanut butter sandwiches I would consider it abusive, and if they add jelly to it I would definitelly report it to authorities. lol haha I can't think of anything worse than eating peanut butter, espcially in combination with jelly. I cannot think of worse lunch. she would be better off with fruits and vegetables. so it depends how one looks at it. if one parent forces children to eat somehting they can't or don't want or is not that good for them to not once, but repeatedly or even G_d forbid every day, then i think one can see it as unkind. Not abuse, of course, not comparable to cardboard riding. But it depends how one looks at it. my point is that SM might think BM is crazy but BM can see SM's actions as crazy. Like i said before never ending battle...

    DD used to be forced to eat this kind of dish (can't think of a name) in a a daycare and that forced her to be very miserable and ven vomit just because she was disgusted by it. it was kind of abusive in my opinion. i asked them to stop even though they believed it was very healthy and good for her (roll my eyes).

  • imamommy
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    finedreams, I can agree that forcing a child to eat something you KNOW the child doesn't like might be abusive (depending on the circumstances) and my parents used to make me eat all my veggies and I didn't like veggies but they didn't make me sick. (and I never considered it abusive either) But, when you don't know the child doesn't like a food and they eat it without complaint to YOU, then they go to their other parent's house and complain (over a period of weeks) that they were given the food they don't like, I would think the way for the other parent to handle it, is to first ask the child, "did you tell them you don't like it" and if they didn't, tell the child to tell them. If they did and they are still being 'forced' to eat it, then the other parent could say something. (and not several weeks later, but handle it when the first complaint is made)

    Finedreams, if someone put a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in your lunch and you didn't say anything to the person that did it, and you ate it anyways, how would they know you don't like peanut butter and jelly? Would you tell them or would you tell someone else that has no control over what goes in your lunch?

    I would actually think that it would be abusive on the part of the parent that apparently knew for weeks that her daughter was 'crying' to her that peanut butter sandwiches were being put in her lunch and THAT parent didn't say anything to the other parent (thereby allowing it to continue) until WEEKS later when she was told she couldn't pick up her child early from school. THEN the issue of the peanut butter became 'abusive'. If it truly was abusive, who is more guilty? The mom that knew her daughter didn't like peanut butter and knew for weeks she was being given peanut butter in her lunches but didn't say anything? or the stepmom that didn't know she didn't like peanut butter and was giving what she thought was a good lunch?

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