I am getting my first Thermador column..... So I can't personally reply but...

My partner at work has subzero at their city home. For their 2nd home, they chose to put in CD frig. They felt that the extra cost was not worth it. They did NOT build a cheap 2nd home. They put lots of bells and whistles in that house because they plan on retiring there.

Cost differential in the 36 inch frigs: 3K to 5K. With panels, my cost differential of 36 bottom freezer is about 5k for me. (6k for thermador, 2k plus for paneling/installation versus 3k for a reasonably nice SS CD 36 frig.) I think it is all about the look first (I am the first to admit that I am paying the extra for full integration!)

DW: I have only had Euro DWs in the past 10 years and when needed replaced with other Euro ones. The difference between good American model, ie KA versus mid grade Euro DW can be less than 1K. Not worth saving, IMHO.

No. I could never go back on the fridge and oven. Dishwashers and cooktops are much better in the mid-range.

In the end you have to please yourself and balance your budget. Would you rather spend the money to hone the granite, or put it into the fridge? Or whatever your tradeoffs are. I'm a function first person, and as far as I'm concerned, the best fridge and oven are function things more than aesthetic choices.

Anybody else go back to middle of the road from high end?

Pal, when we moved, the existing kitchen which was fairly new did not have the high end appliances as we had in our previous homes. I don't cook, so the oven means nothing to me; however, I just couldn't get use to the look of anything but a high end built in refrigerator. With regard to the DW, the one that came with the existing home was a lower end KA, while the one I left behind was well into the $1500 range. The less expensive DW was louder but cleaned better than the more expensive one. So if I had to cut costs, it would be the DW, but not the Subzero (or the other models to which you refer).

I don't think I could go back after two months with my Gaggenau fridge - and I know my DH will never go back. I'm not much of a baker, so I could easily be tempted by lower-end ovens (I only have MIele ovens because I got floor models at 40% off and I hope to one day use it more), but my Gaggenau fridge is a dream.

I love the third level utensil rack and the silence of the Miele, and I got a lower end Miele DW. I'm not sure if I'd go back to a DW without that utensil rack, perhaps others have them now??

We leased a condo in florida all winter and it has mid to low appliances,
I hate them. I have a glass door subzero fridge, miele induction cooktop,
and a wolf oven in my home in Mtl, can't wait to go back.

But honestly, I was able to cook on the lesser quality appliances, it's not as much fun though.

it's was easy for me to step away from sub zero. i thought it was the worst fridge i ever owned. too many visits with the repair man.

I am actually a bit "afraid" of my SZ for that reason: some people get a bad one, and I almost feel like I don't want to jinx myself. However, now the options include much more than Subs at that price point.

In my new house (whatever that might be) I definitely would leave some flex space in the design so something else would fit (as opposed to 27"w)--even if I started with something built in.

I surprise myself that I live with a chef (general and executive pastry experience) and we both seem to think that a middle of the road cooktop and oven are just fine, and we are both enamored of expensive, built in refrigerators, when one 20% the price does the same thing.

SZ? No I can't let go and we'll have it in our new place. Lacanche at minimum for a range (lesser is felt) but DW? I hate our 2 + grand Mi+ele...HATE IT. I had researched DW's and went for a KA around a grand. In our rental we put in the one just one step below that (so around 8 or so) and loved it. The one that is more was just because it took panels. I'd take that over the danged mi*ele any day.

What do I really miss...my designer latte machine :( I have a kurig thing now...NOT THE SAME!!! Our new ki_tchen will be able to produce a latte good enough to make me sing :) And early in the morning, that's GOOOOODDDDD

fwiw I have every reason to believe that the current generation of 24" fridges (LG, GE, etc) are incredibly good at keeping veggies crisp for *weeks*, and I have had no indication of the opposite. Realistically, does anyone need better cooling than that? They are clearly able to regulate temperature to prevent the swings that used to happen in the average fridge built 20 years ago. Temperature swings are what enable bacteria to grow, which cause food to spoil.

palimpsest you seem interested in 24" size so this is why my comment is limited to this size. I happen to have studied this size range thoroughly.

Someone here in GW (morton5?) has an LG that he built in and it works fine.
That is a fridge costing hundreds not thousands.

hth

Hi Pal ~waving~ no one "needs" expensive appliances. I redid my apartment kitchen last summer and did an upgrade/facelift instead of a full replacement. You may recall that all my appliances and sink were mid-80s vintage. The DW, Miele Optima, is the biggest improvement IMO. Everything goes in, including pots & pans -- so much easier. Their 18" holds a lot. I'd rather that than a bigger one that's less efficient.

Second biggest improvement was refrigerator. I wasn't doing built in since we weren't replacing cabinets so SZ wasn't an option. I got a 30" freestanding Liebherr that looks built in and was nearly half the cost. We love this fridge -- it keeps food much longer than any other I've ever had. The freezer is fabulous with a seperate ice drawer. It can be misleading as it looks flimsy if you compare it to a SZ but it's not, it's quite tough, easy to clean, well lit.

I went with a great looking but very inexpensive stove and it works really well and has as many quirks as the old one. It's also faster than DD's Viking with better heat distribution at 1/3 the cost.

Everyone has different needs/opinions, of course, and real estate is such a factor today I'm often surprised by decisions others make. But yes, you can go back or go in another direction IMO.

You'd have to pry my Liebherr fridge from my cold (warm?) dead fingers. Cannot praise the superiority of this appliance enough -- and I only got it originally as a concession to my environmentally-neurotic mate.

But we are very disappointed with our high-end DW and would gladly trade "down" for an average brand that cleans better.

Guess I am out of this one. I went from a white freezer on top fridge, and a white coil top stove with no vent. My KD with ice/water in the door is a dream to me and I also love my electric Bosch cooktop with bottom warming drawer. Having an over the stove hood vent is sooo special!!! LOL.
But having said that, I could not go back!

We are looking at purchasing an investment property in Florida, that we might consider as our retirement home. It's in "The Villages". I find it humourous that some appliances are "enhanced", I think that means either stainless or even black.

In my case, these would be fine for a new build while we rent it out, but I think since I already have my eye on a wall in the kitchen (of the model we like) that should be removed, I'm thinking about nicer appliances when we finally get there, in say 12 years. Did I mention the house that I want to remove the wall in isn't even built yet? They just don't modify any plans, it's quite a production line there.

Anyway, I didn't know I could love my fridge (48" Thermador) and all of my other appliances so much, but I really do.

I can't go back to counter depth or even regular depth, but, I did leave SZ behind. I had two SZ fridges at past homes with no significant problems. But, for this kitchen my husband demanded crushed ice through the dispenser, which SZ does not do. But, I still had to have a built-in, so we went with Jenn-Air and we are very happy with it so far.
I do have a Miele fully integrated DW and will not go back from that, which I'm surprised to hear myself say because I had two Bosch DWs before and was very happy with them. Moved to the Miele this time because I fell into a floor model sale...and very glad I did!

We went "backwards" from Sub Zero to a Kitchen Aid counter depth FD fridge. One, because we wanted an internal water dispenser and two, because our current neighborhood isn't Sub Zero country. In fact, a Kitchen Aid would be considered high end there. I'm already pushing it with the Cornue Fe range, so I didn't want to go too crazy with the remaining appliances.

Funny, the one thing I will not go back on is ventilation. Once I had a nice venting system, I could not go back to something inferior!

I am slightly skeptical about the 18" GE dishwasher (of course no one has any 18"ers on the floor) - and do have a bit of buyer's remorse...I think I probably should have gone Euro on that one. We've always had Bosch and I've always been happy. I do know I'll be able to unload the 18" since most kitchens here are pretty tiny if I don't care for it.

I think dishwashers in general have come a long way.

Do you think American refrigerator manufactures need to take a look at the segment of the population that wants a discreet, close to true counterdepth fridge that is full featured but not super expensive like the built ins?

This is a featureless Hotpoint, someone's typical apartment, basement or garage secondary fridge. I think maybe somebody needs to make something that looks as simple as this (without the crinkly surface, maybe with an option for some thin panels, anyway)--someone should make something like this in counterdepth with bells and whistles, so if you don't want a space ship, but you don't want to spend $7000 you can have a choice.

{{gwi:1423979}}

Each of the DWs I have been able to select has been what I consider upper mid-level -- something below the top of the line but with good insulation and washing features. The last two were a KA and my current pair of Bosch and each was one or two notches below their top of the line ($700-900)-- which is a big step from a Miele. I couldn't go to something less on the DW because my experience with mid to lower end models has been a lot more noise and less cleaning. I'd rather just build in a pull out drying rack and drip pan than go back to those, but I don't need a Miele and sure wasn't ready to do a pair!

On the fridge, I have mixed feelings. I love my Thermador columns. It is above most of our neighborhood (there may be a couple other built-ins but I'm only thinking of one right now). We just took delivery of an LG bottom freezer for our utility room Saturday and I am moving things into it. To assure delivery in time to get our rebates and because the sale prices were so good, we went to the stainless finish. It looks great and I could see it as a primary fridge for most kitchens. The use of space is very different and you tend to forget how deep freestanding fridges can be. The built-ins make everything so much easier to see and access. I could go back, but I'd have to be diligent about the use and organization of the deeper fridge and remember to check behind things where I don't have to so much now. Going to a CD would be less of an adjustment.

I have gone backwards on cooktops twice -- both with plans of changing them out that didn't happen very quickly. I hated the cooktops, but I have learned that if there is enough heat to cook, you can adjust.

Most of my appliances are more on the low-to-mid end, but my 18" dishwasher is a Miele. I'm very happy with it, and could not see stepping down to a less "cool" model. At the time I bought it, my only choices were lower-end GE and Frigidaire with ratchety dial controls, or high-end Bosch and Miele. I chose the Miele over the Bosch because of the flat silverware tray (which I think is brilliant!).

Now there's an 18" GE Profile, which is priced somewhere in the middle. If it had been available a year and a half ago, that's probably what I would have chosen since it would have satisfied my preference not to have a ratchety dial. Although it would still have had a silverware basket, it would have been hard to justify paying almost twice the price just to get the Miele's flat tray.

That say, I'm glad I ended up with the Miele, and if I had to do it all over again, having had my year's experience with the Miele, I might still go for the splurge. :-)

I just went from a non-cleaning $1600 Miele Optima to a $1050 KitchenAid that works much better. I'm very leary of shelling out big bucks for the high-end brands now.

circuspeanut---LOL---well said. I feel the same way about my Liebherr fridge, perhaps could ease down on other appliances.

Kenmore Elite DW is JD Powers #1 in customer satisfaction and they make one that takes a custom panel.

One of my clients has a Kenmore and she will leave dirty dishes around for a week and they still come out clean.

I don't have an SZ fridge so I can't speak to that - the price of a built-in KA price was as much as I could stomach. I do have a Miele dishwasher though. This is at my home. At my weekend lake place I have the old Maytag dishwasher from my kitchen at home, a KA range without convection (instead of Miele cooktop and Dacor ovens with convection) and a Whirlpool fridge.

I do a lot of cooking and entertaining at the weekend place and I often find myself thinking I can do great cooking and enjoy time with family and friends just as well with my "low end" stuff as I do with the higher end stuff at home. My old dishwasher actually works better for me (no etching) but it is as loud as a jet plane which is a definite drawback. The more expensive appliances at home are definitely better looking. I really wanted a built-in fridge with cabinet panels and I do enjoy the appearance of it but otherwise it's just a fridge.