Agree, no 4". I think that's now a dated look. What I've read here is that countertop guys like to do the 4" piece because (a) they get to sell more countertop, and (b) they don't have to be as careful in templating against the back wall because any small gaps will be covered up by the 4" piece. (Tiny gaps can still be covered up by a tile backsplash.) Here's my quartz counter with tile backsplash right down to the counter: I did a very simple backsplash because I have a tiny kitchen and less than 17" in height to play with (most backsplashes are 18"), but look through this forum and the finished kitchen blog and you'll find some beauties! Having that 4" to play with as part of your backsplash will give you more room for design options.

It may be that the person installing the counters is worried about a good tight fit against all the walls where counters will run. If your walls are not flat and straight, the installers can cover a pretty good sized gap with that thick strip of countertop material laid a few inches up the wall ( the older style installations). But with good modern templating, you should expect a good fit even if your walls are a little bit off, then the tile can come right down to the counter and still meet with a small caulk joint at the change of plane. Perhaps you can ask them if they're worried about uneven walls, or you can take a yardstick to them yourself to see how they look. If it were my kitchen I'd certainly want the newer style installation.

YEAH you did it. I wish i had pics of my first loaves from 35 yrs ago !! You rock. It does take practice kneading and shaping. I have made two tutorials and will post them tomorrow. I have taken LOTS of pics and will make slideshows and then you will see. I made both the Challah which just this minute came out of the oven and I made the Sunflower Whole Wheat bread...there are errors in the recipe I posted so I will also correct those....I just hope that jterri doesn't KILL me :) I had to add water and leave out flour. I can only say that when I thought back it has been 25 years since I made it so who knows how things have changed ! Anyway ...tomorrow is Friday #2....looking forward. c

I am turning the entire back of the dining area into storage by effectively extending the kitchen but it will have more of a furniture look with glass doors on the upper middle cabinets with glass shelves and lighting. blondanonima - I do think you are right that somehow a flat counter seems forced into a kitchen area that wasn't meant to have one level expanse. I've only seen one unit in which it seemed as though the one level unit was meant to be in that space and that person took down all the soffits - and since those soffits contain HVAC ducts, that is a bridge too far for me :-). I am incorporating the soffits into the design of the kitchen which now has a standard hideous dropped ceiling with fluorescent lights above with a coved ceiling. The soffits will be reworked with lighting both up to accent the ceiling and ambient for good lighting. I will also have under counter lighting. dtrivino - I am pretty sure of my eclectic taste :-) and much as I would love a pink refrigerator from Big Chill, it's just one of many design elements I love but have to forego such as recycled glass concrete counters - again amazing but would like ridiculous. aziline The stove (along with other elements of my current kitchen hovel was difficult to replace as each element taken out would have required something else to be done - the stove would have required new cabinetry and the people who installed my old wood floor had installed the wood in front of part of it. There was so much dysfunction that I had to wait until it could be gutted because fixing or replacing one element was too difficult. I did replace the DW because those are all standard 24" openings. The stove served me very well in terms of function as I really honed my cooking and baking skills over the years and there really isn't anything that I didn't make - about the only thing it couldn't do was really high heat wok cooking but I don't think any non-professional stove without at least a wok burner has that capability. I'm attaching pictures of the proposed design of the new kitchen. As you can see the "stove/oven" wall will be one wall of cabinets. Because it extends into the dining area, I want it to have somewhat more of a look of furniture which is why I think I will go with inset doors with very discreet hinges. Cabinets will be frameless so that my drawers can maximize interior space. Those upper cabinets with inset doors would not be a big issue in terms of storage as I currently have framed boxes and just fit plates or whatever behind the frames somewhat so that the interior interior space is used. And the design of that thing over the sink is NOT the design I would opt for. It's just there as a place keeper. If you look at the picture of the short china cabinet, I have the same type of visual demarcation using an old stained glass window I rescued years ago. This is my floor plan This is floor plan WITHOUT the cabinet replacing the bar space This is my approved design for cabinets which shows the cabinets extending into the dining area. This is the approved cabinet design for the "sink" wall showing an elevated ledge and backsplash. I am having a paneled French door refrigerator installed - the KA or equivalent Jennair which is 72" instead of the standard 69". More storage interior and if I ever swap refrigerators, the shorter one would fit into the higher space anyway. Slightly off topic but the design now has the French Door Refrigerator abutting a wall which frames the entrance from the foyer of the apartment to the kitchen. I am concerned about it opening adequately. It requires 10" of clearance to open 125º and 3" to open 90º which would enable all drawers to be pulled out. I am thinking of having the wall cut down so that there is no obstruction at all for the refrigerator door as there would be a much wider opening and no wall. Structurally this is fine as my interior walls are non-load bearing and are just there to create enclosed areas. Again, that decorative thing is NOT the design at all but just put in as a place marker to indicate something will go there that is not a wall but still somewhat blocks the kitchen visually.