Jess -
*I truly dont know if they will ever accept me in their life. I have asked them for forgivness and I can only hope that someday they will be able to.*

Your asking them for forgiveness is placing a huge burden on these kids. They may never forgive you and they certainly don't owe it to you.

*but I am afraid that the kids are not working on trying to get over the issues they have only drowning in their sorrows*

How self-centered of you! Drowning in their sorrows - they are really young (the youngest is 4th grade). It hardly sounds like you have their best interest at heart. You only want them to "work on" their issue so that they don't impede your progress with their father.

When my parents were married my dad cheated on my mother. The cheating resulted in a sister who my older sister and I got to meet when we were 18. She was 6 months younger then me. My parents divorced when I was 2. Dad married two more times when third marriage failed he found this woman again. My half sister who didn't know our father til we were 18 died when we were 30. Her mother and our dad was married for maybe a year or two when my half sister died. Last year Dad died too. I was 18 when I found out about this whole thing. I don't even remember my own parents being married. I would speak to her long enough to see dad but neither my sister or I have any use for this woman. And we were grown not small children. I wouldn't expect much from these children ever.

He cheated on her, he'll probably cheat on you. And if he has any money, he's likely learned how to keep it seperate.

You made your bed, now its yours.

"Fade away, let them get very used to the divorce, let them have their father alone on the visits, and don't expect that you can reformulate their family with you as the beloved stepmother anytime soon. You are years away from that. Years and years.

Give them room, give them time, they do NOT share your happiness at their changes in your and their father's life. Your happiness has come at great cost to them."

I wholeheartedly agree with all of the above.

I wouldnt worry to much about getting to know the kids. I would be money on it that this relationship wont last long. Once a man is married the LAST thing he wants to do is marry another and if he does I would personally run from him because he is a LOSER...

My sister broke up a marriage too, and married the man. His three kids never accepted her, never. After 13 years they divorced, it was very bitter.

Her husband cheated during his marriage, I asked her how she thought that this wouldn't happen again (and he end up cheating on her). That is the biggest problem that I think you have, even bigger than the step kid problem.

I'd run from this guy.

"He cheated on her, he'll probably cheat on you. And if he has any money, he's likely learned how to keep it seperate."

exactly.

& also what happynewyear1 said.

I'm afraid you're in for a very hard landing;
when this guy gets tired of playing the therapy/concerned dad game/we can work it out game (if he had been a concerned dad, he'd have patched up his marriage or ended it before pursuing another woman), when, instead giving him respite from an uncomfortable situation, you are the *cause* of discomfort/problems/complications...
he'll ditch you.

& proclaim that he's doing it for his family.

Once you recover from being "in love" (your emotions having been manipulated for a selfish, self-centered man's agenda), you'll realize how badly, how callously, you've been used.

Cut bait.

Yah that was my other thought. If your guy was willing to lean on your on hard times instead of fixing things with his wife, then its a sure bet that when times are tough he'll find someone to lean on .Its usually a pattern. WHY? because it worked the first time around and it was a reward. At a great cost to others.
So personally, you have alot of hardships to come and with a guy that may repeat.
Its up to you. BUt personally, if this man truly loved you he would have said, i can't start something with you until i finalize what i finish here. I know someone know who is divorcing. He has no kids but he is falling for someone now. BUt is not starting something until he signs the divorce papers and he's made it very clear to this new oppurtunity. Now i respect that. Deeply.
Your guy didn't do this and this is why its questionable. This is why there is doubt.
Do you honestly believe that he wont cheat on you? Was it such a terrible marriage? Was he going through a midlife crisis?
Either way, this man needs to be left along with his kids and you should not be in the pic for quite some time with them.
How old are you jess? Do you really need someoen with this much trouble? there are plenty of others to fall in love with? Can you afford your heart to be smashed because of this?
Think hard please. i know you love him but....please think. When you have stepkids that hate you because they see you as the cheater..and you have been labelled this. ...do you really think there is a futur for you and your futur children. Do you want your futur children with this man to suffer because his kids hate you? Do you want that for your kids?

why would they want to get to know? you need to wait couple fo more years. honestly I don't understand why do you wnat to get close to them that quickly? it is easy to blame mom for brainwashing them but in reality you and and their dad are the ones at fault. and every cheating person says that marriage was over anyways. it is just an excuse to cheat.

I understand all of you calling him a cheater. Just to let you in on a lil more of the situation. His wife had cheated on him several times. This is why they were in counciling on and off for 5 years. He tried very hard to do the right thing. He loved her and loves his kids very much. Problem was his wife did not love him. He never knew whom she had cheated with. We have now learned that she had been dating a WOMAN. So "yes" the marriage was that terrible because she has always "liked" women. She has now admitted that she married to have kids and thought that her feelings would change and that she would learn to love him. Of course the kids do not know any of this. they think mom just has another friend. I have nothing against gay or lesbians. Whatever makes her happy. I do however have a problem that he was married to her for 18 years and planned on spending all his days with her, raise his kids and grow old. All f it a LIE. It was wrong of us to do what we did, but it was horrible for her to have him mixed in her lies as she did. She used him for 18 years. When I first saw her the thought had crossed my mind that she could be "attracted to women" but she was his wife and had kids. When all this came out alot of other people have said they too wondered about her sexuality. I have only been around the kids three times now for only about 2 hours at a time. i am not rushing this at all. i know it will take years for them to try to accept everything. The 2 oldest are girls and are about to be in their teens. personally I thing they need to learn how to act like a lady and be feminine. I am 35 and still dont understand all of it. People do learn from their mistakes tho. I want to be a good influence for them. They need to know how to cook, clean, be ladies. Their mother has not taught them any of this. He is trying and so is his mother. I have good intensions, I do not want to cause them anymore pain. I will do whatever it takes to help them, if that means staying away then thats what I will do. At some point we will be married and I dont want to just come back tell them we are married and I live there now and tell them to jsut deal with it. I am not in a hurry, however i do not have kids of my own and like I said I am 35.

And how in the world do you know all this? Did the mom call you up and tell you?

kkny, you seem very negative. Sounds like you have been cheated on yourself. We live in a small suburban town for one. two: Cell phones are not so private. Anyne in the room can hear the conversation. I know what you are trying to imply and you are wrong.

Its just amazing on this board how when some people dont get the support they are looking for, as in "My problem is that they have been givin this control and of course are using it to the fullest." they come back with more "facts".

Yes I have been cheated on. Yes I am negative toward women who have affairs with married men. It's not uncommon for men to say "we're seperated" "my wife doesnt understand me" yayada.

The fact that she is gay does not make what you did less irresponsible or selfish. And then to cloak in it what a better mother you could be? Any one who has an affair with a married man has shown themselves to be selfish and irresponible. But what I say doesnt matter. What he does.

"When I first saw her the thought had crossed my mind that she could be "attracted to women". So you thought she could be gay by looking at her (hillarious). And if she is gay and looks liken one (biggest stereotype ever, how does one look like gay?), so what? It has nothing to do with anything.

"personally I thing they need to learn how to act like a lady and be feminine". And are you going to be their role model how to be a lady? And by lady you mean making honorable choices in life, right? Or "cook, clean"? Cooking and cleaning is not what makes a lady. No comments, really. As you coming up wiht more "facts" this whole story makes less and less sense.

My God, there are some people who are really hard on jess3 and and this man she is seeing. Why are there so many of you calling this man a loser because he fell in love with another woman! Who decides when we fall in love, weather there are children or not involved. This man's mariage was over way before the divorce actually happen. What was he supposed to do? Stay single for the rest of his life or until his children were to accept another woman in his life!! And when exactly would that have happen!

I agree divorce is not easy for children and I agree nothing should be forced or pushed on these children ...like accepting jess3 in their life from one day to another, but by God, give me a break. She will not fight with them, she will not hurt them, she will not ignore them, the most she will do is probably share the love she has for their father with them. I'm not saying she has to love them like they are her own children from one day to another but they can all try to be friends for goodness sake, to go at it easily, to do it one day at a time. I agree she doesn't have to be with their father and his children every single time he has them, but once in awhile will not hurt anybody. I think jess3 has done alot to be nice to these children, even asking them for their forgiveness for goodness sake! What more can she do!

This being said, if there is one piece of advice i would give jess3 as a woman who has been a step-parent for the last 20 years, is this: Go at it slowly sweetie with the mariage and all. Please, please, please don't rush in it. Wait, wait, wait. Get to know this man and a year of being with him is not alot. Please go at it slowly for your sake, your boyfriend's sake, his children and the children you will have with him.

If the marriage was over, he should have ended it. He should give his children a decent time to adjust. Too bad if Jess's biological clock is ticking. It not all about her her her.

Jess has shown she has no morals and no scruples. Asking for forgivenes is BS.

And her "guilt" -- which she is "working on" -- she should feel guilt.

And fleur, arent you the one was an EOW stepmom who made dad cut down his summer time from 2 weeks to one?

kkny,

Either you do not read well or i don't know what. I'm working real hard here on being polite.

You keep blabbering about the fact that yes i did ask my husband at one point in our relationship if instead of having his children for two weeks during the summer, could we just for once, have one week with them and then make up the missing week sometime else during the year.

For the 100th time, i will tell you again that the reason i asked him this is because we were having construction work done up at the lake and i simply could not see ourselves taking care of his children and doing things with them while all the construction work was going on.

And plus, may i remind you that it was the first time in 10 years that DH and I were having one week up at the lake without the children. And believe me, it was not a romantic week like you might think it was. Remember, there was construction work to be done!

I don't think i was asking too much by asking for this ONE week when 10 years had gone by where we had had his children all the time with us during every single summer holidays he had had until then.

Do you understand now or do you want to continue to make me feel like I am the most selfish step-parent on this earth.

Do your husband's children like you? My step-children do.

As a matter of fact,one of my step-daughter's gave me a necklace last Mother's Day that she had engraved on ''To my Mother in my heart".

Did you ever get something like that from your husbands children?

It's very unfortunate that their mom deceived their dad, and was unable to say that she was a lesbian during any of the counseling sessions. It would have been the right thing for her to do because she was putting your SO's life on hold - not fair; however; it sounds like you recently found out that she is a lesbian - after you'd been in the picture. Again, these kids are going to see you as the home wrecker because, as you already stated, they just think their mom has a "friend".

I stand by what I said earlier that asking those kids for forgiveness was burdensome for them, especially for the youngest. Still, you seem bound and determined to insert yourself into their lives.

*The 2 oldest are girls and are about to be in their teens. personally I thing they need to learn how to act like a lady and be feminine.*

What makes you the expert on what these daughters need? You stated that you've only spent a total of six hours with them. Teaching them to act like ladies isn't your job. It's the job of mom & dad. Is it that you two think because BM is a lesbian, she doesn't know how to be a lady? Cooking and cleaning doesn't make someone a lady nor necessarily feminine (the boy should eventually learn how to cook and clean too). Also, picture this: You're a preteen, your life has been overturned by divorce and suddenly some stranger pops into your life and decides that she is going to teach you how to cook and clean - FUN. These girls will most likely resent you. Unless mom is a complete screw-up like the BM in Doodle's life or IMA's, then back off on "raising" them.

Since you intend to stay in their dad's life, don't over step your bounds. Let their family be the one that does the teaching. As you will eventually learn, although I may be wrong, but it is usually the case even in the best of circumstances you will at most probably be dad's wife, dad's girlfriend, but not mom. I'm not saying that to be harsh, but it's just a common fact for many of us.

"And fleur, arent you the one was an EOW stepmom who made dad cut down his summer time from 2 weeks to one?"

Sorry to interrupt this thread, but KKNY... are you really going to bring this up EVERY time fleurs posts? I'm not for or against fleurs, I haven't really followed what she's written other than the fact that she cut down the summer time and something about seating at a wedding. Okay... get over it! I didn't hear you say a word about my SD's BM cutting down her own time with her own daughter. I guess that's okay... bio parents can abandon or limit their own contact with their kids but if a step (or heaven forbid and EOW step even) does it, it's a mortal sin that is never ever forgotten!

kkny, I agreed with most of what you've said in this post but really, it's getting old to hear the same thing EVERY time fleurs posts.

okay... again I apologize for the interruption but I was wanting to say that since the LAST time she wrote it.

No Ima, I am bringing it up in the context of evaluating the advice she gives -- to a woman who puts down the child's mother who, in OP's own words "They are good kids and love thier mother very much. She is is a good mom and for that I am greatful. I have no experience being a mom or stepmom" but may or may not be gay. But OP thinks she would be a better woman -- why? its laughable.

"They are good kids and love thier mother very much. She is is a good mom and for that I am greatful" So she is a good mother in the beginning of this thread. Then all of a sudden more "facts", like now she is a liar and didn't teach them anything etc. What's next? More facts?

Like if OP finds more "facts" about mom it would justify her own behavior. By the way plenty of gay women are feminine and are ladies. Plenty of heterosexual women exhibit very "not a lady like" behavior. Plenty of womnen don't cook and it doesn't make them less "ladies".

"They need to know how to cook, clean, be ladies."

poor kids, their mother *supposedly* used their father, their father left them, & now they've got someone from the year 1785 being shoved down their throats.

This man is using you & making a fool of you.

& what kkny, or whoever, was saying about the mother chatting with you about her sexuality had nothing to do with cell phones & overheard conversations.

It was sarcasm;
she was opining that your "knowledge" of the mother's character/personality/preferences comes from the man who led you into having an affair & who is not leading you around by the nose.

You may be very smart, but you are being dumb.

Thank you imamommy. I was also wondering if others thought kkny was redundant!

And by the way imamommy, yes, my step-daughter was mean to me on the day of her wedding. Alot of people had noticed it also and told me about it and they could not believe how she had acted. However, it was her wedding day and i never did a single thing that day to ruin her wedding day. I could have been mean and left the ceremony when i saw how she was treating me. But I didn't. It was her day and i wasn't about to waste it for her. Once the wedding was over however, i certainly took my distance from her and i never even once visited her home. I figured if she had been that mean to me at her wedding, there was no reason why i should be in her home and yet she kept inviting me constantly to go. We've never talked about it. Maybe someday we will. She is now divorced and our relationship is alot better.

Oh by the way kkny - are you trying to tell me the advice i suggest here is not worth much?

Jess,
you've shed some more light on the situation but it will not make it better as far as your relationship goes with you futur hubbies kids.
Now i know alot of people have knocked you because of the affair and i wouldn't have started something until the papers are signed...BUt you are truly in love and you do want to be with this person.
The issue is not you walking away, its how the kids will accept you in the coming years???? Don't put all your hopes for this.
His exwife was the cheater....so touche on his part. So from my perspective, this man will not cheat on you because of this info you have just given. My personal opinion is that he wont. He stayed 18 years and in the end the woman he married basically lied to herself. SHe was the one trying to convince herself she was straight. It happens to many people.
I also had a friend who married and divorced because she was gay. She married my best friend. BUt in her case, she was only married for 2 years and had no kids. So...no harm done.
Either way both exwife and you have cheated...you at least have accepted you part of the blame and know it was not entire right. Her...well,,,she sounds very confused. Either way. when the kids find out mommy cheated on dad with a woman...all hell will break lose.
These kids will have major issues and in the end may hate you regardless.
So, if you do intend to marry this man and have kids , then concentrate on the things you can control, like yourself, your own futur kids and focus on your family.
Unless these kids can resolve the mess their mother and father have put them through,
1. their mother lying about her sexuality and having affairs or an affair.
2. Dad also cheating with you.
3. The real knowledge if it ever sufaces about their mom....
They will not accept you in any way shape or form. They may even reject both parents in the futur. And that is something that may happen.

As for your remarks about daughter not being lady like and cooking....sound very sexist to me. No one has to be made to be lady like and cook. Very subjective. And its your definition of what it is to be lady like. That is their mother job and even if she is gay, that doesn't mean she doesn't know how to be lady like.
I'm at a loss of words. In this day and age, ladylike, cleaning and cooking is from the 1920 and even earlier. ...sorry...its not your place to teach them. Its their mothers. And i think for you to be a good influence??? when you cheated with their father???? You already have not set a good standard. So i'm sorry jess. You are contradicting yourself in what you want and what you say.
You as a person want the well being of his kids but you are not in any position to give it and may never be. Teaching how to clean and be ladylike and cook....sorry..dont over step on anyones toes. Those kids will not open you with happy faces.
FACT: even though you are sorry for what you did, you cannot change the fact YOU AND DAD CHEATED. Its up to the kids to forgive and tolerate you.

Jess,

O-Maria is really making many great points - both parents are cheaters, as well as you and BM's friend/friends. It will be ugly when these kids have to deal with their mom's affair on top of what they already perceive as their father's indiscretions.

You sound entirely too eager to start your life w/their dad and it's at the expense of them. You really need to look at your previous posts and read them over because you come across as extremely selfish, as well as insensitive, impatient and judgmental of these kids.

Your affair is what it is and it isn't my business, both parents cheated and that cat's out of the bag, but it's these comments that really rub me the wrong way:

1 - He has 3 kids ages 9,11,12 that are not willing do just spend a lil time with me to try to build a relationship.

2 - Thier mother has brainwashed them

3 - They are still angry about the divorce. My problem is that they have been givin this control and of course are using it to the fullest.

4 - I am afraid that the kids are not working on trying to get over the issues they have only drowning in their sorrows

5 - The 2 oldest are girls and are about to be in their teens. personally I thing they need to learn how to act like a lady and be feminine.

6 - They need to know how to cook, clean, be ladies. Their mother has not taught them any of this*

Even though you literally say otherwise, your above comments say you want things now and you want them your way and the kids can just get over it. That's just how I see you.

Feurs, of course you are entitled to your opinion -- but it wouldnt surpise me you supported Jess.

I suspect Jess and I would have different ideas on how long to let the kids get over the divorce. Jess has said "I am not in a hurry, however i do not have kids of my own and like I said I am 35." But in the end, I dont see this guy rushing to the alter.

Thanks you to those that have givin me suppot and advice.

It appears that I am giving definitions here not just making a statement.

Let me ask some of you a question.
If your SD or BioD wore a dress would you not expect her to "sit like a lady"? I beleive that most you would say yes. Is that sexist? Lil Girls & Boys are different for a reason not so they can dress alike and act alike. Do you want your girls spitting out of a car window? No, we see men do that and its digusting. I am a "girly girl" thats jsut me, I dont expect that from them just to "act like a lady" as my mother told me when I was young. There are alot of things that make you lady. Cooking & cleaning make them responsible, that is something every kid nees to learn.
I did say she is a good mother, they are clean, good in school, respectfull, have lots of activities and she is very active in all of them. These kids are taught to order off of a menu (evrynight). For god sake they didn't even know to ring out a wash cloth after their shower. It was only after there visit that I would come over and see them soaked in the bottom of the shower. Now thas just gross!

As far as being dumb silvia, since when is a total of 6 hrs in a year being shoved down their throats? That 6 hrs was instruction by the councilor not my idea.

Kkny: I am curious about your situation since you appear to be so judgemental.
As fleurs asked: Do you husbands kids like you?

I'm judgemental ? hahah and you? you have lambasted these poor kids (whom you admit to have little contact with -- maybe they are trying to annoy you?) and their mother.

Yes my X cheated on me and left me. His SO appears to have gotten the worst end of the deal. He wont take her to family etc parties. According to DD, X cheats on her etc.

"There are alot of things that make you lady"

Yeap. And one of them is not sleeping with other people's husbands.

'I am a "girly girl" thats just me'

so what?

Are you contrasting yourself with their mother?
think that gives you the right to barge in on the girls' upbringing?

(& you contrast girls' manners with boys' manners by finding it unacceptable to spit out the window??? What kind of guys have you been hanging around?
My brothers were heathens, but they never spit out windows!)

These girls don't like you.

They don't want to "learn" *anything* from you, & not only do they have excellent reasons of their own, but if I were their mother or their father, I wouldn't want them subjected to the kinds of outmoded, sexist, judgmental "lessons" you seem to want to teach.

You have no rights in this situation;
you're not a significant adult in these girls' lives, not a person to whom they would ever turn for advice, guidance, or etiquette lessons;
you're present physically only because of your relationship with their "dream come true" of a father who's treated his wife badly, treated his girls badly, & treated you badly.

My advice would be to smile pleasantly & keep enough money in your bank account to pay the deposit on a new place.

Sylvia- Thanks fo your concern but I have my own place.

He never treated his wife badly, oh but he is the bad guy because he is a CHEATER. There is no such thing as a wife treating her husband badly and not really being a wife right. Nevermind she is lesbian. She was treated like a queen. If she had tken care of her husband he would have never left or had an affair. Her only problem was that he is not there to take care of her. She did not care that he had cheated only that her world would change she was okay with having a girlfrind even. She is a spoiled lil brat. My opinion personally, I think she is a man put in a womans body. She will never be happy because she can not be who she truly is inside.
"treated his girls badly" where did that come from? Who are you to come to that conclusion? I dont think a forum can give you the info you would need to say something like that.
And you think that teaching them to "act like lil ladies" is sexist? They should just show their business while wearing a dress. hmmm

I believe that kids should be raised to be responsible adults that contribute to society.

So from this I should assume that your kids or skids dont pick up after themselves, ect. Or would that be wrong for me to decide that from a forum?

We are getting married, when it is my house they will be destroying becuse nobody including their father has taught them to just simply pick their trash, wet towels, toys, games, dvd's an so on off the floor.
I assume that you are just a great SM and allow this in your home. You are one hell of a woman if thats the case.

I am the one who cleans his house, makes their beds, washes their clothes, and everything els eto make them comfortable and happy while they are there sorry but in my eyes that gives me "rights". Their father is as much to blame as their mother and belive me he hears about it. But it was not until I quit cleaning up after them and he had to that he really understood and is now trying to work with them.

You know, I have been reading other post on here about people that "hate" their stepkids, they dont want them in their house, some cant even have a conversation with them, even a lil boy that obviously has alot of problems and needs help and this person is turning her back on him. That appears to be acceptable on here. hmmmmmm....

Gee, first the kids wont spend any time with you and the mother is great. Now the mom's not great and you make the kids beds, etc. When do you do this if you dont see them? Given that they dont spend time with you, and that the councilor says put off the girlfriend thing, this doesnt make sense.

They were married for 18 years, 6 before they had children. So she didnt trap him with a pregnancy. Maybe you dont really know what went on in their marriage.

Jess,
You are really barking up the wrong tree and spoiling for a fight with your attitude. Just because you feel that in your eyes cleaning up after everyone gives you "rights" you are so mistaken. You are an outsider to those kids. Take off your blinders because it will be much different than you think. You can impose your ways on these people all that you want and I am sure that you will, but that doesn't mean that you are going to get any cooperation. Your attempts to control and set rules will most likely blow-up in your face. The kids will either shut down when they are around you - and remember you are already at a disadvantage with them because of the affair, they may want to be with their mom and never their dad anymore because you are around (which will inevitably cause tension between you and their dad) and as far as assigning blame to mom and dad and letting dad hear about it - he is going to be sick of hearing about it. I hope things work out for you, so please keep us posted.

"As far as being dumb silvia, since when is a total of 6 hrs in a year being shoved down their throats?"

You wash their clothes, clean after them and make their beds? They saw you total of 6 hours. You quit cleaning after them? But when could you possibly do all that cleaning? You never see them. You don't even know them (in siix hours?) and yet you have so much judgement about them.

"I think she is a man put in a womans body. She will never be happy because she can not be who she truly is inside."

I think it is a pretty ignorant and arrogant statement. Men trapped in women's bodies are transgendered, not gay. Gay women are the ones who are attracted to other women, they don't want to be men. First his exwife is lesbian now she is transgendered?

On a subject of happiness, if inside she is a gay woman then why can't she be happy with what she is inside? There are as many happy/unhappy homosexuals and there are heterosexuals. You don't think that homsexuals can be happy with who they are inside?

i think it is actually rather offensive and judgemental to assume that a person is actually trapped in a wrong gender just because that person is gay. It is very inappropriate and discriminatory statement.

BTW plenty of gays are manly men and feminine women. I find your comments entirelly biased.

I do wish you the best but I do not see much future here. If you start new realtionship with such attitude, where is it going to go from here? Only downhill. You can argue here as much as you want but it doesn't negate the fact that this whole situation is doomed.

"He never treated his wife badly, oh but he is the bad guy because he is a CHEATER."

Uh -- Yeah!
Being a cheater IS treating your wife badly.
Being a cheater DOES make you the bad guy. (both of you)

For what it's worth, if I were one of these kids and you picked up my stuff and made my bed, I would NOT be exactly grateful.

So stop. Stop now.

Frankly, if I were those kids, I wouldn't want a person in your position even touching my stuff. (Note - It's Not Personal. I said "a person in your position.") And if you continued to do it, I might even leave a few extra little messes for you, just for fun... That oh-so-wet washcloth might even end up on your beautiful hardwood floors. Sandwich crusts under the sofa cushions. Red Kool-Aid on the carpets. The kind of thing that 'accidentally' happens in every home with children, and could be plausibly denied, but still allow the kids to 'fight back' the only way they really can.

And I suspect, the more you try to show them how to be 'ladylike', the more UN-ladylike they will act. If they're determined not to like you, they're determined not to BE like you.

Sorry - But you're in a no-win position here.
Stop trying to be the 'better mother' and make them like you -- they're determined Not To and you simply can't make them.

If you back off (waaaay off) --
Then if the day ever comes when they realize their mother prefers women to men,
and then make the next step to conclude that their father didn't really have a genuine 'marriage' in the truest sense of the word --
Then maybe they'll consider giving you a chance.

But don't hold your breath.

My sister also broke up a marriage and his kids never forgave her, one of them even killed himself. The man also tried to get a thing going with me and with my sis's best friend.

I think you need to be kind to the children and treat them with respect but distance yourself emotionally. What you want is not going to happen.

My sis was a very unhappy person during the 30 years she was married to him, but she stayed for the money.

"It was only after there visit that I would come over and see them soaked (washclothes) in the bottom of the shower."

So OP doesn't live wiht her BF. She says she visited and found things that kids left, she doesn't see the kids. I guess because she visited her BF (at his house) and found things that kids left (in their dad's house!) and she picked them up she feels she has rights to parent them. LOL And if she comes over to her BF and cleans his house (LOL) it doesn't mean she has rights to anything in regards to his children. It is not even her business what they do in dad's house. Unbelivable.

When do I have time to clean?
He only gets them EOW and one night during the wk.
Since I am not at his house while they are there and he does not do clean up much, I do this after they leave and I come over the next day and see a huge mess. I know I should leave it for him , but I dont. i clean it. I want them happy while they are there. I want their sheets clean. I know they dont get dirty after only 2 nights of sleeping but then they set for another 2 wks.

As far as the man comment: She actually looks and acts like a man.If that makes her transgender or lesbian I have no idea. i ma not well educated in that subject. It is very obvious and I thought this before I ever became involved with him. I am sorry if I offended any of you by that comment. I have a few gay & lesbian friends also. She has admiited being attracted to women but, her family and church family would not accept her if she came out. Thats why she got married. Yes she would be happy I think if she could love who she wanted to. The church she attends does not accept that lifestyle and would not let her attend. Alot of them have expressed to us that they think she could be lesbian and as long as she does not "come out" they dont have a problem with it. I think that is terrible and I believe that we are all gods children no matter what.

The kids have alot of issues to deal with. I hate the fact that I am one of those. But I do love their father very much and we will deal with evrything as it comes. I dont expect it to be easey at all.

I have a friend that is a teacher at the kids school, some of the teachers are gossiping about their mother looking "butch" their words not mine. I think that is just horrible. What happens when they go to Jr.High or High school? What would be best for them? I have no clue. Any thoughts on that would be appriciated. i dont know if she ever will tel them or live openly gay.
I really have their best interest at heart. I know alot of you think I am some horrible person for sleeping with a married man. i know how wrong that is. I am a good person with morals. I want to evntually love these kids and have some sort of relationship with them. Tho I am not sure if that will happen but I can only try when its time and the councilor think they are ready.

Jess, you clean up after they leave because you love your BF and do not want to see it a mess because you have been raised with certain values that as a person and woman , you clean his house. Thats' fine but that's your choice to do it. Dont expect the kids to be fine and dandy with it. In fact, if your BF was on top of them , they shouldn't be leaving such a mess in the first place.
As for the cheating aspect everyone is discussing here, You all three + exwife's lover cheated. So you are all on teh same playing field there. No one in my eyes got burned. You did it to each other. That put aside:
The kids, well they are going to be soooo psychologically F'd here and its going ot take alot of counciling and help for these kids.
Like i've said before dont expect them to come running and accept you. THey will probably put your marriage through Hell because they honestly do not care about it.
So as i said before, you are intent on marrying this man , having kids, concentrate on your own family and stop putting your foot into these children. They do not need you or want you. They have their mother. Its her business on how they will be raised. Not yours. They visit their dad eow....you can try to teach them all you want . I'm sure they'll be tiffy when their dad tries to teach them...but coming from you. they wont have it. Unless one or two forgives you...and thats a stretch..but it can happen.
As for boys vs girls. TO each their own. I was a tomboy growing up and hated wearing dresses and had all boy friends and no girls. I thought they were 'too girly ' for me:)
Jess, i know you've been raised with certain values but you cannot distinguish certain traits with boys and certain ones with girls. No labeling here.....in this day and age, it just doesn't fit.
And anyone spitting out the window boy or girl would have a slap across the back of the head from me. (not my sk of course, my own bioson....my husband handles deciplining his own kids)
I've had 2 SM in my past. good and bad. In the end, i never had one who butted in to my business between my father and I , unless my mouth got a little out of hand.
The good thing is the fact their is a councilor involved here.
You want them happy and i think alot has to do with guilt over what you have done. They will not acknowledge your cleaning at their father house and again , they will see you as their father's maid in the end. So i think your BF should start picking up his kids stuff and you back off a bit...or you'll be used for the rest of your life.

What happens when they go to Jr.High or High school? What would be best for them? I have no clue. Any thoughts on that would be appriciated. i dont know if she ever will tel them or live openly gay.
I really have their best interest at heart.

What you are not understanding, or are refusing to understand, is that you are not in a position to help them or decide what is best for them. You are not in a position to have an opinion that matters in terms of their well-being. It does not matter whether anyone here thinks you are a wonderful loving person, or a horrible husband-stealer with no morals. The only opinions that matter in respect to the particular subject of your relationship with the children is the childrens' opinions. And the kids are going to have a horrible opinion of you, and the reason they are going to have that opinion is because of the choices that you and your BF made. You made the choice to get into a relationship with a married man with 3 pre-teen kids; the kids not wanting a relationship with you is an entirely foreseeable consequence of that decision, and it is a consequence that you need to accept now.

The councelser just told him last week that we should put off "the girlfriend thing" for a while. Is there anybody with similar situations that has any advise? Every single person who has responded to this thread, regardless of the amount of sympathy or condemnation they've expressed, has given you the exact same advice; listen to the counselor. Lay off the kids. Give them time.

They are not going to forgive you any time soon. They may never forgive you, but it is theoretically possible that years down the road they might. But if you make things harder on them now by trying to hurry them through their grieving process, pushing them to have some kind of relationship with you, or imposing your own opinions on their behaviors on them, it is only going to make it less and less likely that they will ever accept you.

If you are telling the truth that you really have their best interests at heart, then listen to the counselor and to all the moms, stepmoms, and stepkids here who have given you the exact same advice and give them time and space. That is what they need, and none of the "but mom's a lesbian", "but the marriage was dead" "but I can be a good role-model", will change that. None of those things matter to the kids.

"We have put off making plans to get married until the kids have more time to adjust. They are still angry about the divorce. My problem is that they have been givin this control and of course are using it to the fullest. "

" I am not in a hurry, however i do not have kids of my own and like I said I am 35."

You have to decide -- is he going to go forward with you while you can still have kids, or is going to string you along. He may not even want to get married and have kids, but uses his own children as an excsue. If you were hoping for advice here to move him along faster -- I dont think that is going to hapen.

This isnt about you trying to be kind to the kids is it? Its about you wanting to get married and have kids of your own, and when you got no sympathy here, the focus changed. If Dad doesnt want to tell his kids he has a GF, it harder to become wifey #2. There is nothing wrong with wanting to start a family, but generally starting your goal with a married man isnt the best route.

I do not understand your obvious obessions wiht the fact that she is gay. Why does it even bother you?

The factt hat you clean HIS house is your business but just because you clean HIS house when kids aren't there does not give you rights in parenting them. By this logic housekeepers should be allowed to make parental decisions. You feel like cleaning his house it is fine, nothing to do with his children. They didn't ask you to clean. They don't come over to your house.

the fact that their mother looks manly has nothing to do wiht her kids disliking you.

So now all of a sudden church people speak to you about your boyfriend's s exwife's sexual orientation? i find it very hard to believe!!! Why would they discuss it with you?

Quirk said: "give them time and space. That is what they need, and none of the "but mom's a lesbian", "but the marriage was dead" "but I can be a good role-model", will change that. None of those things matter to the kids."

Amen to that. Well said.

Jess, our advice may not be what you want, but I don't think I have ever seen everyone agree on anything here - almost no one ever agrees with KKNY. So, this says a lot.

Also, the more we try to dissuade you from rushing in, the more you come up with bizarre things to say. Your back-pedaling seems to be digging you in deeper and it's making you look less credible.

FYI- The house is OURS we bought it together. I keep my other house because we are not married and my disabled brother lives there, whom is learning to live all on his own. He is going to marry me and we will have a child together. I have no dout about that.

You bought a house with a guy you are not married to, you have been with a year, and was married when you met him. And now what -- he lives in it, his kids come to visit, and you arent allowed when they are there? Or you live with your brother (nothing wrong with living with your brother, its the arrangement with your BF that I question).

Stories just keep piling up. LOL

"Since I am not at his house while they are there" "I am the one who cleans his house" "It was only after there visit that I would come over"

and now this:
"The house is OURS we bought it together"

so first it is his house and he lives there and you just come over to his house and clean his house or it is both of your house where you live together and you just forced to leave when kids visit. and counselor said kids shouldn't know about the girlfriend and yet it is supposedly your hosue, does counselor know you actually own the house and live there? or you bought a hosue for him to live in? which one is it? can't have both.
Yeah...You can tell us stories, it really doesn't matter but you cannot tell all these stories to yourself.

It is entirelly possible you are going to get married or even have children, it sounds like you are both a great catch.

Where did I say the kids are not supposed to know about girlfriend. your wrong, the councilor said that they its better if they do not spend time with me until they have resolved a few issues. And yes I do leave for the wkends he has them. Not that I am not allowd,that is what is best for them. I do have it both ways, its not fun but, that is just the way it is for now. Believe me their mother told them all about dad having a girlfriend and how he left THEM for her. She is not concered about hurting them even more. The madder they are at dad the happier she is with them. I have seen that first hand. She is sure to make a scene at the ball park most wkends.

your words:

"Since I am not at HIS house while they are there" "I am the one who cleans HIS house" "It was only after there visit that I would COME OVER"

it is HIS house, correct? People do not COME OVER to their own houses and don't call their houses HIS. you know that it is his house where he lives, right? you change facts in every post because you don't get support you want (how to speed things up because you are 35 already and clocks are ticking).

First mom is a great mother and now she makes scenes in a ball park on the weekends, and you see it? haha I am looking forward to read more stories. so what is next?