it's generally true that you understand the 'shoes' much more once you walk in them. I understand what a saint my (step)father is to have entered the picture 110%, adopted my brother and I and became Dad. I think he is probably the reason I walked into being a stepmom with no hesitation and no holding back - I learned from example.

What has been interesting to watch is the bulb go off in my SD's head as she not only gets older, but as she gained a step dad. As I have been in her life as long as she can remember, and been a *CP* since she was 5 there has never really been much differencial between SM and mom. I'm just mom. All the things I do that her mom doesn't - PTA, coaching, girls scout leader, etc. - registered on some level as SM doing them and not mom, but because I am 'mom' not much was thought about it.

When her mom remarried and she gained a stepdad who did not have much interest in her or her life she seemed very perplexed . . . isn't that what steps do, get involved?? When mom and stepdad had a baby that stepdad dotes on and fawns over while ignoring SD she got pretty upset - if I didn't treat her differently when I had biokids why the heck is he?? Suddenly the light went on - steps don't HAVE to treat their kids like I treat her. They make a choice to. There was a real change in her - gratidude for involvement that had before been *expected.*

What has been even more interesting is that BM's change in attitude toward me happened right about the same time. Perhaps she also realized that the inclusion I show which she griped about for years is much more pleasant that the exclusion her husband shows and she must deal with?

Talk about finally understanding . . .

JNM said: "Suddenly the light went on - steps don't HAVE to treat their kids like I treat her. They make a choice to."

I'm sort of lucky that BF had another longterm girlfriend before me... She was nice to A__ of course, but never showed a great deal of interest in him or really made a real effort to get to know him and bond with him.
This means that BF, A__ and BM all understand that I have CHOSEN to foster the relationship he and I have... and are happy about it... That puts me in a pretty sweet spot!

But you can't have it both ways - either the stepchildren should appreciate you because you didn't have to treat them as well as you did, or you are "more of a mother to her than her biological mother is" as some posters have claimed. One of the requirements of the latter category is that appreciation for all the things a parent typically does should not be expected.

Being more of a parent than the biological parent does not mean that you "have" to. If the biological parent is a piece of garbage, typically the step parent has a choice... to be more of a parent or back off and let their spouse do it all, thereby leaving the child without one parental figure. The choice to step up and do more than the biological parent is just that, it's a choice. Therefore, you don't have to do 'parent' things for them and they should appreciate it when you do. In fact, if their own parent is a piece of garbage that isn't doing anything and the step parent has stepped up, the child should appreciate it MORE.

and I DO expect my children to appreciate everything I've done for them. They likely won't fully appreciate it until they have children of their own, just as a step child likely won't fully appreciate until they are a step parent.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Those stepparents who view themselves as the "real" parent should not expect that the stepchildren should be grateful because they "didn't have to do it." If they are the "real" parent in all ways but genetically, then, yes, the do have to do it. Sure, my kids would be grateful if I took them to Disneyworld, but I don't expect them to be grateful because I went to the grocery store or paid the oil bill. Children have the right to expect their parents to take care of them. Surely you don't expect your children to be grateful that you took care of them because you technically didn't "have" to do it - you could have abandoned them, you could have given them up for adoption.

Colleen,

I am curious -- all your research? Please let us know if it is published. I also think how you ask a question can lead to an answer.

There are also all types of situations on this board. A SM who is married to someone with full custody (pulbished studeis indicate that men have full custory in apparently 5-10% of divorces) is in a vastly different situation than EOW SM.

Also, I am curious if someone surveyed second wives who subsequently divorced, would they also say they made mistakes blaming first wife/stepchildren for all their problems. That just maybe, as Sylvia implied, their partner might be part of the problem.

LOL, KKNY. My first husband was married for two years to his high school sweetheart, who left him . In their divorce papers, which hubby allowed me to see after we were serious about each other, she had claimed a number of things about him ( this was in the days of at fault divorce) which he vehemently denied. Things like...he wouldnt let her flush the toilet more than once a day. THings like, he would call her thirty times a day just to make sure she wasnt on the phone with friends. Things like he kept all money and all accounts only in his name and she had to ask for any money and give back the change.

He said she was crazy. He said she was an S word. He said she made it all up, and that the marriage had broken down because she wanted to fool around.

I believed him :), and ended up married to him.

Every single claim that his first wife made , was absolutely true. He acted exactly the same way in our marriage as he had in his first - and then some. When we divorced, he made exactly the same kind of accusations about me. According to him, I am crazy, etc.

That is why I am relatively careful about accepting someones description of step mom, or birth mom, or dad , or stepchild at face value. People always see through the filter that puts them in the best light and their adversary in the worst. I suspect the same situation would be described two totally different ways, depending on w hich side is doing the describing, and that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

kathline, you are totally right. When someone is mad at or has problems with some one all you hear are the negative things or they are liars. My 2nd husband. (Yes I've been married 3 times. ) He talked about his x she said I beat her she said this she said that. Well We were together for a year and I didnt believe it. So we married. This woman came to me and told me dont marry him you will regret it. Well I thought she was crazy. I didnt see it in him. Turns out she was right. He was a very abusive man. I saw her one day in a public bathroom we started talking and things she told me was the life I was living. You should always listen when you hear things but always look deeper and follow your instincs. I wondered things when he acted odd but listen to my heart and not my instincs.

As for expecting children to appretiate what you do for them. This is how I see it. I appretiate when they say thank you for the food I prepare or for finding there lost jeans but I dont expect it. I mean dont matter if it is my BK or SK they need a parent and they got one. You have to take care of them. God gave you bio- kids and you chose to be with step kids. They are kids they need you. Now when they all came home one day and all had brand new dirt bikes sitting in a line in the yard you durn right I want then to appretiate it. But not hollering everytime they ride THANK YOU! I want them to appreitate it by taking care of it. I know my SK's dont appretiate me as much as they should neither do my own kids. But one day they will. I always respected my parents but never appreitated what they did for me as much as I should have. I did as I got older. It goes with saying the older the wiser. My dad worked 2 jobs most his life to support me and my mom. I was always trying to help him because I could see what he was doing but I couldnt really see what mom was doing. She didnt work or anything. But now that I have 6 people to take care of cooking, cleaning, laundry, I see what my mom was doing. Yep you bet I appretiate her now.
My dad past away 5 years ago this month. I talk to him always but I was with him when he past and before. I told him " I dont know if I ever really told you but I have always been thankful for what you have done for me" he told me "I was your dad" I still ask him everyday if I make him proud. I take everything him and my mom taught me and I use it. Mom says thats appretiation enougth. She is amazed by me because I have 4 kids I take care of and I work a full time job. To me its not amazing its my life. I chose it and I work for it.
Anyway sorry getting of in outter space.
I know they will see one day as they get older and wiser but with that knowledge comes a lose of inocents and I'd like to hang on to that as long as possible.

kkny said
"Also, I am curious if someone surveyed second wives who subsequently divorced, would they also say they made mistakes blaming first wife/stepchildren for all their problems. That just maybe, as Sylvia implied, their partner might be part of the problem."

If you go back and look in the thread kkny you would see I very much agreed with what Sylvia said and in fact so much so I brought her post forward two additional times. I personally don't like to BLAME anyone. I like to solve problems. You got a problem with that?

Keep your facts straight there kkny.

Coleen,

See below, maybe I didnt understand, but I do see you blaming your stepchildren.

Posted by colleen777 (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 4, 08 at 9:51
Sometimes adult stepdaughters are just angry, jealous females who think they are competing for father's romantic albeit non-sexual interests. Ever think about that?

 Posted by colleen777 (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 4, 08 at 11:25
You still believe in cause and effect. You stubbornly seem to resist the fact that it doesn't matter WHAT you do, if the children are of that mind EVERYTHING you do will be wrong. Dependent on how much they "controlled" dad up until he met you. And, soon enough you will also find that they think YOUR resources are in fact THEIR resources. And poor dad had better not ever buy you a nice gift;)
ALSO the story you hear from them BEFORE the marriage will be completely different from what you hear after. Be very, very careful KKNY. Cause and effect have no place in human emotion. Do your research.

You are right, you didn't understand:D Go grind your axe somewhere else.

Ok, so I should just forget about and move on from not respecting a woman who slept with a married man, but it is OK for a SM or Dads SO to go nuts when her SD "disrespects" her by not liking her hair or gifts. I love hearing the thought process here.

When I was a teenager, I thought my looks would last forever, fortunately I also focused on eductation. I suspect my Xs SO thinks her looks will last forever. Time will tell. In the meantime, so many people want nothing to do with her. If she blames me for that, she vastly overestimates my power.

First, I was going to respond to Lori, but when I logged in, there was this post from kkny (blame??) and I can't resist...

You should forget and move on from not respecting a woman who slept with a married man. Who's telling you to respect her. If your child spends time with her, I would think you'd want her to be nice to your child so you wouldn't create additional animosity. There's already enough if the child is old enough to know what happened. I know your daughter doesn't go there or spend time with her, so that's not an issue for her. So, what difference does it make if you respect her or not? and I don't see why you keep mentioning looks... do you honestly believe that a husband that stayed with you for twenty five years, left over looks? I mean, if he is really that shallow, why would he wait twenty five years? I'm sure if he were asked, he'd say there were other things. Perhaps his GF is only there for her looks, but leaving you was probably about something other than you losing your looks. And just like you would rather say he left over your looks insted of whatever 'real' reasons, she'd rather say people don't like her because of you, when the real reason is that they know she was his mistress or they just don't like her. But, no it's not okay when stepchildren are disrespectful to a step parent that gives them a gift. They don't have to like my hair or my looks, but they should say thank you for a gift, without attaching a dig to insult me. If I go out of my way to do something that I don't really NEED to do, then yes, it should be met with some level of appreciation.

and back to Lori... I think you said it well.

When I say that I expect appreciation from my own kids (as well as my step), I don't expect them to thank me morning, noon & night and grovel at my feet. I've been a single mom for a while and it was tough. I didn't buy myself new clothes for years when they were small, just so they would have nice clothes. I don't expect them to be thankful for that, they were little kids and I chose to have them. Providing for them was and is my job. But, they should be able to appreciate that they have what they have now, because I work hard. As they get older, they should appreciate that they have a mom that works hard and gives them what they need and more. My parents used to tell me that there were children starving in third world countries when I balked at what we were having for dinner. They were telling me that I should appreciate that I get anything at all. And I think that is what is going wrong in the world, when parents give their children everything without expecting them to appreciate it. Then they want more and more. Then they are learning that if it's not given to them, they can just take it. They have become the "me" generation. Every kid nowadays 'expects' a cell phone, a computer, video game systems, etc. etc. and while those things used to be 'luxury' items, things like a cell phone and computer have become 'basics' that they NEED. After all, you want your kid to succeed, right? So, if I'm 'expected' to keep up with society (the jones'), then sure, I'd expect my kid to appreciate it. If he/she didn't show some appreciation or gratitude, then why am I going to bust my ass for a new computer (that is meant to get their homework done but they use to go onto myspace or chat with friends) or to pay for the cell phone that they use more to text message all their friends when the real 'necessity' of it is for 911 or an emergency? Yep, if they are disrespectful toward me, then they get what I owe them, food, shelter, medical care, and an education. (and not necessarily college)

I think that as people get older, they do mature and that is when true appreciation happens. I don't think kids can grasp the entirety of what parents/step parents do for them. Asking for respect or to be treated nice is not too much to ask.

Ima, YOU dont owe the Steps anything. Your DH does. The problems seem to start when steps "disrespect" -- which seems to have a pretty broad meaning, and then SM doesnt wants DH to help with his children, or says joint assets shouldnt be spent on stepchildren.

"I'd expect my kid to appreciate it. If he/she didn't show some appreciation or gratitude, then why am I going to bust my ass for a new computer (that is meant to get their homework done but they use to go onto myspace or chat with friends) or to pay for the cell phone that they use more to text message all their friends when the real 'necessity' of it is for 911 or an emergency? Yep, if they are disrespectful toward me, then they get what I owe them, food, shelter, medical care, and an education. (and not necessarily college)"

Clearly, I'm talking about MY kids, not my step kids. You are right, I don't OWE my step kid anything. That doesn't mean I don't deserve to be treated nice if I treat her nice and that I should get some appreciation for doing things for her that I don't NEED to do. and yes, if they are joint assets, then it takes a joint decision to use them. If my husband wants to maintain separate finances instead of teaching his child how to be respectful, he's more than welcome to do so. However, at this point, I'm better off financially than my husband and it's my children that are more disrespectful toward him (even though his daughter has had a problem with me) and it doesn't matter to me that it's MY children. If they can't be respectful, then they can go out on their own without MY help. In my case, it's NOT the step parent that doesn't want to 'waste' money on rude, disrespectful kids. I'm ashamed of the way my boys treat my husband, because I did not raise them to treat people that way. Why would I reward it by giving them money or other help?

Because you help your children because they are your children and you love them, not because helping them is a reward for anything.

The reward is seeing your grandchildren!!!!

theotherside, you make NO sense if you are responding to me. I am saying, why would I reward my children's bad behavior with money or help and you say because they are my children and I love them, not because helping is a reward for anything... yes, helping a grown child financially when they are rude and disrespectful is rewarding bad behavior. That's why the law has an age of majority... so parents no longer "have" to do things for their children. They continue to help out of love, not legal responsibility. If a child that has reached their majority is lazy, rude & disrespectful doesn't deserve the same consideration as kids that are respectful, hard working and pleasant children.

If you raise your child to be honest and hard working, but when they are in their teens and 20's, they decide to go along with the wrong crowd and get involved with drugs or other crimes, would you just keep on bailing them out of jail, because you "love" them? Sure, maybe the first time or if you think you can straighten them out and you try. But, when they continue to do those things, I'm sure you would mortgage your house for his lawyer and keep making excuses for him for his actions. Well, in my opinion, that's not help. That's enabling. I'm not going to enable my kids when I see them behave in a way I don't approve of. That's MY right as MOM.

"That's why the law has an age of majority... so parents no longer "have" to do things for their children."

I don't think that is the primary reason why there is a legal age of majority.

If your child is doing drugs and you hand him money, that is enabling, since he probably would buy more drugs with it. If your child is rude to your husband and you give him money for automobile insurance or a winter coat, those two things are totally unrelated. That is as unreasonable as withholding money or help because your child decided to become a chemist when you wanted him to be a lawyer.

Is there a difference between being rude to me or being rude to my husband? I didn't raise my children to be rude to ANYONE, even people I don't like. I am not going to turn a blind eye when they do something that I don't approve of. Whether YOU agree with it or not, it's MY RIGHT to decide how I raise MY children. (and you have the right to decide how to raise YOURS)

I wouldn't deny my children help or money for a new coat or whatever no matter to whom they were rude.

You can raise your children however you want, but if you post about it, I can criticize it if I think it is wrong. You certainly criticize my child rearing often enough.

I think our disagreements go way beyond any stepchildren issues, or even parenting issues - I perceive your actions in many cases to be those of a "control freak." I am sure that most teenagers, mine included, sometimes think their parents are too controlling, but, based on your posts, it seems to me that you are on the far end of the controlling spectrum.

It's the difference between "conditional" vs. "unconditional" love. In the first case, the kid has to EARN your love (and help) by never doing anything to disappoint you. In the second case, the child is loved (and helped) whether s/he disappoints you occasionally or not. And no matter what age (since, presumably, it's hard to 'turn off' love like a switch the second the kid turns 18). At any age, "rewarding" a kid with EXTRAS, luxuries, can be as conditional as a parent wants to make it, since luxuries are LUXURIES. But a coat for cold weather, or insurance for safe and legal driving, are not luxuries. Conversely, OUT OF LOVE, a parent may certainly deny CASH to a drug-addicted child out of fear they'll spend it on drugs. But then in that case the parent also has the option of PAYING DIRECTLY for the car insurance, coat or whatever TO BE SURE THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY GOES and TO BE SURE THE CHILD IS SAFE and THEIR BASIC NEEDS MET.

In either case, if the safety and well-being of one's child is at stake and they need your help, then NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON, NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO WRONG, and NO MATTER WHAT THEIR AGE, it's the responsibility of any decent parent to help.

A PARENT has this moral obligation, in my opinion, no matter what the law says (or the Bible, or one's nosy neighbor or Dr. Phil or Dr. Dobson or whoever/whatever else wants to claim to be an authority on the subject). A STEP-PARENT doesn't necessarily have this same responsibility (unless the SP is raising the SK's with no help from their parents, then SP DOES have the same responsibility). And not every step-parent can be expected to feel unconditional love for their step-children. But a step-parent has no right to interfere with the child's PARENT's unconditional love and responsibility to help the child. Okay, perhaps a LEGAL right (as when assets are held jointly, or per "legal age of consent"), but in my opinion not a moral right. If they insist on interfering, in my heart I believe they have done a terrible thing. And, of course, if a child's *own parent* wipes their hands clean and refuses to help them in their time of real need ---because they're over 18, because the step-parent poo-poo's it, because the kid can be rude or because the parent has some very grossly-skewed moral or legal rationale--- then that parent shouldn't be surprised to find themselves alone in their old age or that other people "wipe their hands clean" of them, including the children they refused to help when they needed it.

These are, again, just my opinions. People can raise their kids (or treat their SK's) however they wish... live and let live. I'm just pointing out the differences in the two paths: conditional vs. unconditional love. In my opinion, the former is easier, short-term, and the latter is much harder but more worth the trouble in the long-run (plus I think the latter affords a better night's sleep). I think you get back from kids (or anyone) what you give. But the choice is yours to make.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make..."

So in a nut shell.... serenity you agree with me when I say....

As a SM ... I don't have to do for my SC I do it because I want to ...

As a BM I do for my BC because I have to not because I want to...

:)

Serenity, I agree with you that our love for our children, our love for those in our lives who are important to us is and should be unconditional. Love is unconditional.

Things are not.

I remember joking with a co-worker once when the entire staff of where I worked was being shaken up due to budget issues --- I said something along the lines of I "hoped the HR people got my mother's letter explaining how wonderful I am because if they got and read her letter they would understand how deserving I am and how I should not suffer ill-effects from the re-organization." LOL

I remember back when I was three weeks away from leaving for college. I worked FT (6 days a week, actually). My only day off was Sunday. My best friend called one Sunday AM to invite me to go water-skiing with her & her family. I thought I deserved this treat as I had been working hard all summer. I asked what time she thought we'd be back. If everything worked out the way she said, I'd be back in time to make it to the early evening Mass. So, I went in and told my dad I wasn't going to Mass with him; I was going water-skiing and I'd be back in time to go to Mass that evening. He suggested if I wasn't in the car with him and my siblings to go to Mass that morning, he was not going to pay for my college tuition.

That seemed patently absurd to me. I very politely and respectfully informed my father I was going water-skiing; that I wasn't asking his permission, that I was being considerate in informing him of my plans. He came to my door before leaving for morning Mass to ask me one more time if I was going with them. I re-iterated that I was going to Mass later in the day once I returned from water-skiing.

He took my siblings to Mass that morning.

I went water-skiing.

I went to Mass later that evening.

It was a good thing I had worked so hard all summer and saved all my money, because my father did not pay my tuition that year.

I don't think my dad ever stopped loving me over this incident, any more than my defiance of him represented some termination of my love for him.

His love for me was unconditional.

Some of the things he might provide for and/or to me were not.

My dad learned I loved him even if he didn't indulge me in everything I thought I might deserve.

I learned he loved me even if I defied or rebelled against him.

Love is unconditional. Things are not.

Cawfe, I guess when it gets down to the nitty-gritty, yes, step-parents have less of a responsibility than bio-parents. (In general, in the usual SP position of being, at most, a secondary parental figure to the kid.) And it's more reasonable to expect a bioparent to have unconditional love for their bio-kids than for a step-parent to have unconditioanl love for step-kids. But again, circumstances may shift this and require more responsibility from the SP than usual. If the SP is custodial, raising the kids from a young age, day-in, day-out, and especially if SP is the primary breadwinner, then in effect that SP is performing the functions of a primary parent, especially if the noncustodial bio-parent is MIA or completely incapable... to the effect that the SK really relies more on the SP than his/her own bio-parent. And I think this is where it can get especially tricky, and where I personally have the most empathy for SP's, in that situation. Because they have all the responsibility but there may not be as much of that natural "unconditional love" feeling. So they're very conflicted. Obviously there's no laws governing ANY parent (step or bio) HAVING to love the kids unconditionally and vow to always be there for them if they're in need... But it's just my opinion that whoever the kid looks to as their primary caretaker (or whoever TAKES ON THAT JOB) should be there for them unconditionally. In some cases, this may go against one's own natural feelings, but if the situation requires it, then I feel it's important to do one's best to strive for that. Not everyone has to agree with me, plenty don't and easily "wash their hands" of responsibility when the kid turns 18, etc. with the attitude of "they're on their own... unless they behave exactly as I want them to." (But I also find that those who take that route are often estranged from their kids/SK's, which I would have to think, deep down, makes them unhappy and/or displeased with themselves.) Again, it's a choice... and every choice has its effects, long-term & short-term.

wrychoice,

It seems to me that all that proves is that your father was even more of a control freak than is imamommy.

I personally thought what wrychoices story told was that in his house certain things are non negotiable and if you are old enough to choose otherwise than you are old enough to pay for things on your own.

And, I dont think any parent has any responsibility to pay for their childrens insurance. When I was growing up if I wanted to drive I had to have a job in order to pay for my cell phone and insurance. Having your own insurance is the responsibility of the privledge of driving not a requirement after all there are always other means of transportation.

"after all there are always other means of transportation."

Are where do you live? We have no public transportation anywhere near by, nor are there taxis that are willing to come this far out. Actually my kids do pay their own insurance, but their being able to drive benefits me almost as much as it does them. Yeah, I know imamommy is going to suggest that they bike 120 miles down a limited access highway to get to college, but I personally don't want them to.

Wow, theotherside, do your kids commute 120 a day for college?

Actually, TOS, I think he provided me a valuable lesson in accepting responsibility for my choices. Neither he nor my mother placed any conditions on my time in college, either undergraduate or graduate school. I had complete freedom to study anything I wanted to...if anything, one of the results of the incident I shared was I earned his respect because I managed that first year on my own...I continued to work summers, holdays and took a part time job during classes, but he & my mom covered tuition for the remainder of the time I was in school. His business often brought him to the town where I went to school, so I had a wonderful opportunity to develop my relationship with him directly, unfiltered through my mom (I am one of those in the generation where the mom's method of keeping kids in line was to say "wait until your father gets home!").....my dad gave me one of the most precious gifts I have ever received...when my first husband & I were planning our wedding, we were struggling with trying to make it convenient for everyone and in the process I was making it incredibly difficult for myself. One day when he was asking me about how the planning was going, I got all teary...and he told me not to worry about anyone else...just work out whatever was good for me, tell him the date,time, location, and he would be there...and he was. At that point in my life, it would not have entered my mind to not consider everyone else's needs at the expense of my own. He gave me permission to think about and take into consideration my own wants and needs. It was an incredible gift.

He taught me how to drive a stick shift.

He was there for me during difficult times of transition in my adult life...and when my mom was unable to accompany him, he called and invited me to be his "date" to his 50th high school reunion. I met his best friend from high school. I met the fellow who was his best man when he married my mom. I met his high school girlfriend. It was a hoot! I treasure the experience.

He died 5 months later.

He was a control freak, all right.

Too bad the father of your children isn't.

Wry - I'm so glad you have such a wonderful memory of your father. He obviously raised you well.

imamommy,

No, they live on campus. I didn't mean they drove that far every day (at the current cost of gas, that would cost more than a dorm room) - and most of the kids didn't even have a car for most of college, so I am the one who drove them back and forth for vacations etc.

wrychoice,

I am glad for your sake that that didn't bother you, but I still think it is cruel to deny something so important to your life for a minor, or even major, unrelated infraction. It is one thing to refuse to pay for college if they have flunked out the previous semester, but not going to the "right" mass? How far would you think it reasonable to carry this? What if you were 16 and living at home and he had said you would have to buy all your own food if you didn't go to mass? Is that ok? What if he said that you would have to pay for your own medical care?

Let's see if you can get this, TOS. He didn't do any of those "what ifs" you propose. He did not establish a consequence I couldn't manage successfully. He already loved me and he gained respect for me when I was not detered; I gained confidence that when faced with obstacles, I could overcome adversity and still achieve my goals.

I'll take paying for my own college tuition for a year as a small price to pay for having learned that about myself. Twenty years later when I was faced with the death of my husband having witnessed him die in a crash, I was glad at some level to have known this about myself. At that point, it was probably much more valuable to me than the year I spent in liberal studies.

Who knows what important lessons your children are learning...one can only help they are positive and will serve them well in the future.

Thank you for your kind words. I do have many warm memories of both parents. It was a very difficult time when they died. First my dad; then 14 months later, my husband. My mom died three years following my husband's death. That was a period of time in my life when I felt like I no sooner dragged myself up off the floor when I would get knocked back down.

I remember returnng to my mom and dad's house following her funeral. I was sitting on the couch in their living room with my best friend and just looked up toward the ceiling and said something along the lines of "well, God, I think that just about covers everyone," when the front door opened and in walked my sister, BIL, and their six children, followed by my brother and his daughter. It was perfect timing! A nice little reminder that no matter how much loss I had experienced, I still had so many people important to me, whom I love so dearly...it helped in those subsequent moments that seemed so dark.

Yes, they are learning that I value their choices and that I will never pull the rug out from under them for any reason, much less because they annoyed me somehow. They are learning that commitment is important, and if I say I will pay x dollars toward their college education, I will. Their responsibility is to provide the x dollars they have committed to, and to do their best in their courses. So far, the ones who are now grown and on their own are wonderful, responsible, caring adults, and I expect the same from the younger ones.

I suspect your children are learning many other lessons as well.

helping your children has nothing to do with them being rude or not. i wouldn't deny my child education or food because she didn't say thank you or was rude here and there. you do things for your kids because they are your kids not because you give them a reward. when it comes to setpkids somehow it is OK to deny them stuff because they weren't polite or weren't saying "thank you". sounds strange to me. sounds like double standard.

FD,

There is a trend here, SMs see excessive/physical punishment as more acceptable, and college as less important. Not all, a trend.

But as you say, there own children are more likely to be deserving.

Well, KKNY you only have one child. Finedreams only has one child. How can you know what it's like to have a deserving and a non deserving child? I have three children. One is deserving. She's a hard worker, does her chores (and often more than what is asked of her), doesnt' break the rules, is and has always been the first one to say 'no, I don't need it' when she knows money is tight. If she wants to go to college, I know she will work hard and it won't be wasted.

Then I have two boys. The first one told me in 9th grade (when he refused to get up and go to school) that he didn't need an education, he could do manual labor. Every day, I came home on my first break at work (at 8am) to make sure he got up and went to school, because I had to leave at 6:30am (no, I couldn't afford an au pair). He was supposed to get up and get to school. He decided he's old enough to decide... so, I had to do whatever I could to get him to go to school. (I couldn't physically make him, he's 5'11" and I'm 5'2) so I contacted the school, the truant officer and the police. All told me they can't 'make' him go. All they could do is prosecute me if I don't make him go. Long story short, I had to get him on probation so he had to answer to the court. It worked and he went to school for two years. When he was released from probation, he 'quit' school & started working part time. He was 17. I've tried more times than I can count to help him get back into school, but he thinks he knows it all. He has decided now, that he hates physical labor. But, he doesn't want to go to school either. He's happy to be working in fast food for now. I'm pretty much done 'helping' him. He doesn't want to follow my rules. He comes in whenever he wants. He's been working for three months and spends all his money on eating out and beer (and gas money for other people to drive him around). He is supposed to be saving for a car & his own apartment. He's got two jobs in fast food. He turned down an offer to work in a store (where he'd get benefits). Do I think he's deserving of my help? No, he has spat on me every time I've tried to help him. He's a very smart kid, when he was in school, I would go talk to his teacher every week. She'd show me his test scores were the highest in the class but he refused to do his homework. Nothing I did helped. So, it's not that he has a problem learning.. I think he just thinks he's so smart that he doesn't need to go to school.

Then my younger son, he also didn't want to finish high school. At first, I worried that he was going to follow his brother's bad example, but he tested when he was 16 and left high school. He worked and started college. He just recently (when my older son came back home) has begun to follow the older one's lead. Now, they want to get an apartment together and I feel that if he does that, he won't finish school. Neither one has been able to save any money to move out, and now he's breaking the rules too. He isn't saving for college like we planned. He is supposed to work this semester and summer. Then he was going to return in the fall with my help. Well, I'm not going to help him if he isn't going to help himself. He was deserving until he chose to do what he's doing now.

You can call me controlling but I'm doing what I, as a mom, feel is best for my children. Kissing their ass to get them to like me isn't my style. When I feel they need some tough love, then that's my decision. I feel too many parents worry that their kids won't like them so they overindulge them.

and as for my stepdaughter being deserving? She's 9. I won't know for years, whether I will fork out money to help her with college. But I don't have different standards for her than my own kids. I'm not spending my money where it won't be put to good use or appreciated. Period.

"SMs see excessive/physical punishment as more acceptable, and college as less important. Not all, a trend.

But as you say, there own children are more likely to be deserving. "

You discovered the SM master plan! Leave them beaten and uneducated.........

That is just silly...

A fully parent funded college education is not something a child is ENTITLED to. Of my five boys (step and bio) the ones that choose to go to college and need our help will get it. Those who do not take their education seriously or choose not to go (one of our boys is determined he wants to be a Marine) will not have our help.

"I'm not spending my money where it won't be put to good use or appreciated"

Ditto.