Someone, I do believe it was here, mentioned something about coffee grounds,I put them down all over the area off the porch where the voles have a path from running back and forth,they will eat mostly anything I plant there,young Echinacea ,leaves,perennial bachelor buttons,ect.. but do not eat Lupine or Salvia,that is a bonus,and my Echinacea is mature so they dont bother it except when there is new growth along the sides,they mangled my perennial 4 get me nots,and a few others I am not remembering. Anyway,since putting down the coffee grounds there have been absolutley no signs of them. Our weather has been mild enough for them also,so I am wondering if it does keep them away! No path at all!And believe me I have been looking at that path for almost 7 years,it is gone! I am going to put them down in another area they frequent and that their are obvious signs of them next to see what happens! I know normal deer will jump fences,but these animals around here are lazy! I have cheap fencing around my existing veggie garden,I didnt dig it down into the ground or anything,the rabbits wont dig under even to get to my herbs...lol..it would be real easy for them,but they dont.They are just plan old lazy critters around here!

I plan to make all my seedlings (that I can handle) flower, then force them for the following year, and give away. I already promised the first one for Cindeea, for she sent me seeds, the second one for Maria, for her seeds... And then the rest will go to Project Angelfood. Hopefully they will see it as a nice gesture and not an unnecessary burden. :o)

pkguy - you wrote - I'm also having a difficult time believing that in all cases or the majority of cases a dog especially a pup or very young dog is being dominant when they jump up and try and lick you in the face. I dont think anyone here is referring to all cases. There are usually 2 reasons why dogs will jump up to lick you in the face, one is that they are pups and are actually seeing you as the dominant animal in the area and are greeting you as a pup would a returning hunting adult in order to get food...it is an instinctual response left over from wolf days. However if a dog is licking obsessively and it is licking a person or other dog it can be a sign the dog is trying to asserti its dominance over the person. It is not a good idea to let the dog continue in this type of behavior and it usually shows that the dog needs lots more discipline - if you watch these dogs they are usually the ones who will exhibit other aggressive behaviors. You also wrote: That I find is more a training issue for a happy to see you dog, nothing to do with dominant behavior at all. In most cases this is true, especially when dealing with puppies. I think it is great that you question things and it might be a good idea to question everyones assesment of this crazy lady you have heard so much about. Usually all it takes is one person to go up and make contact with that person and a couple of minutes to try and get to know her by listening to her to realize she may be different but is not as crazy as the dog park people may be saying. I agree in your assesment of people trying to imitate Casear, and the damage they might be doing could be long lasting in that they may be confusing a dog, consistancy in training is paramount to a healthy dog and those who are spouting gospel at the dog park might be doing more harm than good, it is hard to tell without being there. In my thinking, when someone is trying to help it is better than the opposite. There are a hundred different ways to train a dog, if someone finds Casears way easier for them, great, hope it works and I hope the dogs life is better for it. Seems a far better bit than ignoring or neglecting a dog which happens more than over training or mis-guided training. As joepyeweed wrote, it does not matter the size of the dog trying to dominate, and the lab seems to have great patience in dealing with the JRT, but that is in a controlled setting and the dogs know each other, there is not an underlying medical or behavioral condition - the same can not be said for the dog park. Like I wrote, I have seen something seemingly benign turn into disaster in a matter of seconds because either people were unable or unwilling to read their dogs and control their behavior. It takes mere seconds for a situation to turn tramatic and once it does there is no going back. Dogs can be emotionally and physically scarred for life because of situations like the one you originally wrote about. Seems a shame when it can be so easily avoided.

Pal, you mentioned contractor or wife. My story. I bought a house second hand. I knew it was the demo built for the contractor and his wife when I purchased it. It was the stud house in the neighborhood. I hated the decor, wallpaper, stove, bathroom furnishings, etc. I had to live with it, however until our children got their graduate degrees (at least). One day shortly after moving in, my neurologist called to ask if I would talk to a lady who needed a pep talk about MS, who was very depressed and he needed an upbeat patient to counsel. So, I told him to send her over. I am sure she told me her name but it was a common surname. She complimented my house and the decor. I thanked her, told her I loved the architecture and how every square foot was utilized wisely by the contractor, but went into a rant about hating other items, but getting it for a good price and how I planned to demolish the baths and kitchen, blah, blah, blah. It turned out she was the contractor's wife. She had chosen all the colors, papers, furnishings for the baths and kitchen. C'est la vie. Days have only 24 hours, thankfully and I was over my faux pas in about 4 days, so less than 100 hours. Neurologist has sent me no subsequent referrals.