You are kidding me!!?? This could be a "home wrecker" amoung us? Surely this is not the woman who broke up her marriage....well if it is, SHE does not belong here! I had no idea, how can we find out for sure? If this is true, kkny, I apologize, to a certain extent. We still should not all be generalized, but I can definitely understand your point and have compassion for you.

I think alot of stepparents put their foot down more because the she is the one they do not respect, and most of the time they are not respecting her/him behind the bio's parents back. Bio doesn't see it, because the kid is smart enough not to let them see it.

I agree that if two parents - bio or step - stand together, their home is more stable.

tamar - obviously your husband does not realize why his son is doing the things he is doing....because he isn't putting his foot down and making excuses!! I'm thinking about you!

jenny, things have turned out fine with older SS. DH did put his foot down, finally, and SS#1 stopped. He actually said, the following summer when he came home from college, that it was a culture shock coming from BioMom's house to our home, but that he understood why those rules were necessary. Unfortunately, SS#2 was very unhappy with those rules, and chose to return to BM's, where things have gone from bad to worse.

But it did take both of us, the SM and the BD, working together, to change the behavior in our home. It's just too bad for SS#2 that BM undermined all that.

Interestingly, KKNY was very kind to Helenar on that other thread, mentioning only that women who chose to date maried men were showing a lack of concern for the men's children. Pretty mild, given her more recent postings.

I have never dated a married man, and I don't condone it,
but it's the man who made the commitment to his wife, not the woman who is dating him. She hasn't made a commitment to anyone. Not the man, and not his children.

I think it's a terrible idea for any woman to date a married man, and I think she is taking a huge chance and is usually headed for disappointment. But I'll bet that the welfare of his children are pretty low on her priority list.
Just like the welfare of his wife.

It doesn't matter that she hasn't made a commitment to his wife or children - it doesn't make it any less wrong. I haven't made a commitment to my neighbor not to steal his car - but it would still be wrong if I did.

"If a child knows that they can play Dad like a fiddle and get everything they want from him and then stepmom comes in and puts her foot down and tries to be the diciplinarian then she automatically becomes the bad guy and biomom didn't do anything to contribute to that."

This statement is so right on.And there are so many reasons bio-dads do this.Whether it's guilt from the divorce,or guilt from not seeing the kids,or whatever.The man wants to be their friend instead of the parent. And it's sad,because the kids NEED a parent,not another friend.

The other side,I couldnt agree more about the other woman. I think I have made my feelings about the other woman quite clear on here though already. It's morally wrong to go for a man with a wife and family. Should we not pass judgement? We place judgement on murderers,because murder is morally wrong too.

Murder is actually more than morally wrong.
It's a crime.
So is car theft.

Adultery is a crime in my state.

two guys sitting in jail... what are you in for? I murdered my wife ... oh.... what did you do? I cheated on mine!

Not defending cheaters in any way but how much time would you serve for adultery? same amount of time as murder or theft? Do they have to wear a big red A on their clothes?

Agree. Regarding being single and dating someone who is married. I'm sorry, but I don't blame my ex-husband's girlfriend as much as I do my ex-husband. He is the one who made himself available. She just perceived that she was picking up the pieces from a bad marriage.
He was the jerk that stepped out on his wife and kids.

Now where is it that adultery is a crime? Sometimes I think it should be....I know in the MidEast it is a crime, or it is a crime for the woman...I think....

Yes, but isn't everything in the Middle East a crime for women?

If a child knows that they can play Dad like a fiddle and get everything they want from him and then stepmom comes in and puts her foot down and tries to be the diciplinarian then she automatically becomes the bad guy and biomom didn't do anything to contribute to that."

Bio-mom sets the tone as to whether or not Dad should be treated with respect, or whether Dad should be treated like a piggy bank. Whether or not step-mom should be treated with respect, or whether it's acceptable to treat step-mom
as an anger object.

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20040428-000002.html

I just read an interesting article about Adult Stepchildren,
which appeared in Psychology Today.

Here is a link, in case anyone is interested.

southernsummer...I respectfully disagree with you. BioDad needs to set the tone of his relationship with his children himself. I hardly think that if the children respect their dad and know that they can't get away with treating him like a piggy bank because he will not let himself be treated that way that the biomom could do anything to change that relationship. It's up to their father to respect himself and the role he plays in his relationship with his children. A good biomom should encourage a healthy relationship, but half the time, the problem is that biodad is trying to compete with biomom for the affection of the children, so they each end up buying more things and giving unearned freedoms so that the can be the friend instead of the parent. Everybody wants to be the good guy and the children suffer for it. They fail to learn personal responsibility. Meanwhile, dad is blaming mom for how they turn out and mom is blaming dad, and both wonder why their children don't know what it means to take responsibility.

If Dad's relationship with his children is not what it should be, it's Dad's fault. If Mom's relationship with her children is not what it should be, it's Mom's fault.

Adultery is illegal in approximately 20 states. In my state, it is punishable by up to 3 years in a state prison. A lot of thieves are sentenced to less.

Well Raek, you have a right to your opinion. You can respectfully disagree all you want, but you should take a walk in my shoes. It's interesting that you put all of the
"should" on dad. If dad would do this, it would solve all the problems. Interesting perspective. Everything would be fine if dad would change. Hmmm. Wonder where you are coming from.

There are a lot of "shoulds" here, and it wouldn't hurt bio-mom to set an example, either. But the only way that my husband could get these kids' attention is to cut of the endless supply of toys and money, but he is not willing to do that. He loves to spoil his kids. You know, that's not really a crime.

I tried doing nice things for my step-kids in the early days, but all I got were complaints from bio-mom that it wasn't enough. Bio-mom called and yelled at me because her kids weren't allowed to bring a friend with them on their ski trip to Utah. That they were so hurt, and that it ruined the trip for them, and they were a "basket case" because of it.

I was the bad guy, because I insisted on counselling for my step-son after his DUI, you name it.

My stepchildren are irresponsible, and will never be able
to take care of themselves. They are like little animals that expect to be fed every month, and have all their bills paid. They love all their things, and they are missing something when it comes to human relationships.

My husband has told his daughter that he hopes she will marry someone who can support her, because he can't support her forever. I know that is not true. I know that
their lifestyle will continue to be supported forever. But one thing is true: everyone is assuming that she is not expecting to ever support herself. The same with my step-son.

I am the only one who sets boundaries here. It is a world of permissiveness, and let's see who can spend the most money on these under-deserving, spoiled rotten, ungrateful, irresponsible, brats. I am so tired of hearing bio-mom way "they are children". They are not children. They are adults, with over-sized trust funds, and nothing but whining, poor-me, attitudes. "My father fell out of love with my mother when I was 2 years old, and I am a basket case. I need counselling, and you need to pay for it". PLEASE! My children went throught the same thing, but no one is coddling them.

To theotherside: How often is the adultery law enforced, and how many people are currently jailed for adultery?

I'm coming from the SD position. I do not have children and don't plan to until I am happily married. Neither of my parents were wealthy although, my stepmother's parents recently passed and left my SM and Dad with what I believe to be a pretty healthy estate, although I really don't know exactly how much, nor do I feel I have any right to benefit from it or know exactly how much they got.

My dad spent very little time with me when my parents were married and as a result, our relationship was never really close. After the divorce I believe that he spoiled me in the ways he could afford to when I was visiting him. It was his way of trying to make our relationship closer, although it really didn't work, becuase he turned himself into the one who bought me things, not the one who did fun things with me or spent time with me. When I visited him, I pretty much spent my time there with my friends who lived close by (when my parents split, I moved about 2 hours away from my home town and my dad, who stayed in the house I grew up in). Although I know that my mom resented my dad for the way the relationship between them was and also for the way he was uninvolved in my life, I don't feel her influence would've changed my feelings for my dad if I felt he were making the appropriate effort to be a father figure for me.

When my SM came in originally as Dad's latest girlfriend and tried not only to tell me what I can and can't do, how I should act with my Dad and how he should and shouldn't spend his money on me, I resented her for it. I do think she has a jealousy problem and I don't think my situation and yours are exactly the same. I do believe that adults should be able and willing to take care of themselves. I think much of my confidence and self-esteem is tied to the fact that I make a good living and don't rely on parents to take care of me, but I think if your husband wants his children to change and to take care of themselves, he is the one who needs to be proactive about it. It is up to him to change his relationship with his children. It is not his ex-wifes responsibilty to do it for him, although I'm sure a change in her attitude would be helpful, it's not the only avenue.

I have done everything I can to include my step-children
in everything. They make it clear that that are not interested. If they force themselves to come to family gatherings (their extended family, not mine--they would NEVER do that), they make sure everyone knows how pissed of they are to be there. It's a great way to punish my husband for "falling out of love with their mother", which is a great one, since she is the one who wanted the divorce...2 decades ago. But that's not they way their mother spins it.

They don't want to spend time. They want money. That's what motivates them.

southernsummer,

I realize your situation is very different than mine. I'm sorry that your SC are the way they are. It's really too bad for them that they are so pre-occupied with money that they can't have a good relationship with their Dad and that they don't know the truth as to what caused the split between their parents. I think if their mother is bad-mouthing their dad, it would be appropriate for their dad to tell them the truth. There is no need for parents to bad-mouth each other in a divorce, it only hurts the kids, but I think defending yourself, esspecially to grown kids should be expected.

You know, I have some friends who grew up in wealthy families and are "trust-fund babies". They are nice people and sometimes I find myself wishing I were in their shoes. They always drive nice cars, have plenty of money to spend and go on the best vacations, not to mention the $100,000+ Weddings. But then I think of the person I am and I doubt that I would be the same self-motivated, independant woman that I am if I had grown up with all of that privilege. I'm glad you are doing better for your own children.

I'm quite sure that there is nothing that could probably be done with your hubby's kids now that the precidence has been set. Even if he is the one who changes the terms now, they will assume it was you who made it all come about. I realize sometimes we all feel as if we are in a no-win situation in step-families. Isn't it a shame we all can't just get a glimpse of the other person's perspective?

I will not in any way back up your stepkids for behaving the way that they do. It irritates me to no end when people refuse to take responsibilty for themselves and rely on others to do everything for them. All I'm saying is that if a child is never told "no", then they never learn about boundaries. They are no longer children, but their dad continues to give them everything they want, so they have grown to expect those things. All I'm saying is that your husband did his share in creating the monster and that all the blame doesn't lie solely with their mother.

I think if my dad had created a good bond between the 2 of us and had spent real quality time with me, my feelings about his relationship with my mother and the way he treated her would not really be my focus. My only focus with him would be to continue the bond that we had already built. I know that you have worked to include them in your family things and that is great. Do you feel that your husband has done 1 on 1 things with them to build a trust and a bond with them, or does he just throw money at the problem?

The reason I bring up this point is that my boyfriends parents are divorced and both are remarried. He has a good relationship with both his parents, as well as his steps. His dad is so loving with him and with me. When he and his brother were little, his dad used to take them camping and hunting and fishing. When his parents split, he really continued to make his children a priority. He never really had much money, but that was not the issue. I think his mother blamed his father for the divorce as well and she tends to wear her heart on her sleeve, so I believe that she let it be known to the boys that she felt it was their dad's fault the marriage didn't work. Her feelings never affected the way my BF feels about his dad and although he loves his mom very much and she goes way overboard in doing things for both of us...dinner, birthdays, Christmas, etc. He still has such a deep love and respect for his dad and I believe it is because his dad made time with him a big priority in his life. I envy that relationship way more than I envy the trust-fund babies.

Oh Good Lord this is one long thread.hurt my hand to scroll down.

"To theotherside: How often is the adultery law enforced, and how many people are currently jailed for adultery?"

It does make a difference in divorce hearings though,doesnt it?

I am so naive. It never occurred to me that people would
choose not to get along with each other. I have seen families like you describe. My aunt, for instance, is one of the most abrasive people I know, but she has great relationships with her step-children, (she has no bio-kids), and she and my uncle are on good terms with his ex-wife and her husband.

I really didn't have excessively high expectations. I approach life expecting to like people, and expecting them to like me. This is a new situation for me. Always, to have a friend, I would just be a friend. Step-family members would benefit so much from the love and support of additional family members. I just don't get all this conflict. All of us are here because there are problems in our new step-families. This is just so tragic.

To Cool Mama

It can make a difference in divorce court with the spouse who cheated, but it doesn't affect the person that the spouse cheated with. My ex-husband's girl-friend just went on with her life. I really feel sorry for her, because there is no telling what he told her. I think she thought he was a nice man, whose marriage was ending, and his wife didn't appreciate him, yada yada yada, and she was lonely and thought she had a future with him.

Geez - This really opened a can of worms*&&*? Firstly, 'Sunnygardnerme'. My family is very open about money; it is no secret that my father believes the man pays the household bills, it would be "unmanly" to do differently. Very outdated, but charming don't you think?

I think my post was more about treating all of the children involved in a blended family equally, not about getting money from my father. Money appears to be a 'big hot issue' with the stepmothers on this board... Reak - you appear to be the only SD on this board, the reason I ended up on a blog was due to the lack of information on the internet for the children of divorce. There is tons of material for step parents (how to deal with the choice they made) but not much for the children who are along for the ride and are the most affected by every bump in the road.

I must say my mother remarried about the same time my father did and I have never had any conflict with my stepfather? I really think most of the issues in a divorce are with stepmothers; before you all go nuts, I think it is a biological behavior issue. Women are naturally competitive when it comes to providing for their children, mother birds with push a chick out of the nest if it doesn't smell like her own... Just something to think about when dealing with those ungrateful people your new husband brought into your marriage.

I am a stepdaughter, too! As is my sister. Our parents divorced when we were both very young, 2 and 3 years old, and mom re-married when we were 4 and 5. Our biodad was not in the picture, lived in another state, did not pay CS, so our stepdad adopted us. We have a younger half brother. We had a wonderful family life. Our dad treated us the same as our brother. My sister and I often wonder whether the reason our lives were so wonderful was because the biodad stepped out of the picture. This is also relevant to my personal situation, in that my daughters' biodad is not in the picture, my DH treats them as his own, and my daughters are extremely well-adjusted, happy kids. Which is saying alot, considering they are 14 and 10.

Regarding money, my DH is overly generous with all of our kids, more so than I would like him to be, even with my "own" kids. My older SS is a 20 yo college sophmore. We pay 100% tuition, apartment, car, insurance, groceries. Our arrangment is that he should be paying for his own spending money, but his monthly allowance is enough that he dines out on sushi, parks his car in a heated garage (because if he were forced to park on the street, he would have to get up at 8 am to move his car), and has a gym membership at some posh place (because the university gym is too crowded). I do think this is above and beyond what his college experience should be, and he will be in for a rude awakening when he gets to the real world and has to budget for the first time. But DH says that as long as we can afford to make things comfortable in college, we should. The reason I don't complain? Because my SS has become a wonderful, warm, caring, appreciative young man. He doesn't treat me like the enemy, and he empties the dishwasher without being asked when he is home for college break. I may have complained a couple of years ago, but I think my SS has matured signficantly and come to respect and appreciate my place in his life. I just love him.

I wanted to add something about my sister and her family. Her DH was a widower 20 years her senior when they married, with 2 children close to my sister's age. He is a retired pilot who refers to my sister, a physician, as his "retirement plan." They have a wonderful marriage and a 5 yo DD. My sister has the most generous heart of anyone I know, so I know she is not the cause of the rift between her DH and his 2 older children. His daughter stopped calling him after he told her he would not co-sign for anything else. My sister was already stuck with paying the grown daughter's mortgage. The son returned gifts to his children from dad with a note saying, "Since Dad has chosen to have another family, he is no longer a welcome part of theirs." What did he expect his father to do? Stay alone and lonely for the rest of his life? Sometimes it is just the kids.

Angel, I think you are right about me being the lonely SD on this site who has had to deal with the same sort of thing that you have. No offense to Tamar, but I think even though you grew up with a man who was not biologically your father, he was your dad in every way. It wasn't spliting weekends and holidays or dealing with Dad's new wife and her jealousy issues. I'm not saying that you or your sister are that way. You are right, sometimes it really is just the kids. In my case and in Angel's somtimes it really is just the stepmom.

Angel, you are also right about the lack of support for stepchildren. I'm suprised by it also. I found this site and read some earlier posts by lillysuzanne, who's father remarried his wife (her mother) died. The new stepmother came in and completely took over. She got rid of many of the things that belonged to lillysuzanne's mother and refused to let lillysuzanne's father to have any contact with her or anybody else in her family. Recently her father has "seen the light", so to speak and has finnally gained the courage to tell his wife that he would see his family and that she would just have to deal with it.

I understand very much why so many of the stepmothers on this forum are touchy about anything perceived as an attack against stepmothers. I react the same way when there is something I perceive as an attack against stepchildren. When we feel as if we have tried our hearts out with somebody and our efforts seem to go unnoticed we all take it a little personally when people begin to generalize about us.

Angel, I just want you to know that I know exactly where you are coming from. If you want to, maybe we could start our own website...Support for stepchildren dot com. :)

Actually,I'am a step daughter myself,angelstelli. I have had TWO step fathers. I have had problems with my step dad in the past.Some regarding money,because my mom actually makes more than him.
It is by no means easy being the step child. I have tried to take that into consideration being as I have 3 step daughters now.
As I have said before in the past,and Raek and I agree on this~I think it is much less a "Step mother" or "step child" issue.Every situation is different. We have some step mothers and step fathers who can be controling and textbook mean.And,in other cases,we have step children who are trying to be manipulative.
I think when we come on this forum,we'd all like to think we arent being un-nessacarily mean or manipulative...whether we are the stepmothers,stepfathers,bio-moms,or step children.
This is why I never try to judge unfairly,and listen to each individual~not go on based on what they "are".

Southernsummer, I think you lucked out then on THE OTHER WOMAN scenerio. I have known quite a few who arent so innocent. Aware the man is happy,and still trying anyways.Then going farther and trying to blackmail if not given what they want.
I also think THAT scenerio of the OTHER WOMAN can vary greatly.

angelsteli, I am glad adult stepchildren come to this site because I want to understand why they think the way they do. So welcome. As you know I have 2 adult stepchildren. I come from a family where both my parents are still married after 60 years. I have 5 siblings (4 girls and 1 boy) Our parents taught us to be self suffient, responsible, and hard working. We were all on our own by the age of 18-19 years old. We worked our way through college and life. From our parents, we did not expect money, their pensions, etc. This is money my parents earned and they should do with it what they please.

Secondly, when myself and 3 of my sisters married we had nice weddings nothing fancy and 1 of my sisters eloped. We paid for what we could and our parents paid for as much as they could afford. We did not expect them (parents) to pay for anything. We did not want them having to spend their hard earned money on a wedding that last a few hours. Sure I have cousins that had fancy expensive weddings, but I did not expect the same from my parents. Why is it that you think you are entitled to what others have had? Why?? Who said life was fair? I would rather see my parents spend their money on themselves or where the want to spend it. What makes them happy not me happy.

Yes as a stepmother I become frustrated with adult stepchildren who expect dad to foot the bill on their irresponsible spending habits. It is also upsetting when I the stepmother help them out financially and they thank dad but not me. When they do no acknowledge my contribution to DH and my financial standings at the present time. They do not respect or even take a minute to ever contact me to chat or ask how I am doing. It is like a slap in the face. Yes, it is about money and respect for me because what I have is my husbands and what he has is mine. We share all. And if my stepkids would except that DH and I our ONE and treat me with respect and consideration I would do the same back.

You said your dad is the one who controls the money because it is his old fashion way. It sounds like your stepmother has no control so don't blane her for the way the money is spend. It sounds as if your dad has the control to do as he wants and your poor stepmom has to go along with it.

In my current relationship DH and I combined all our assets when we married which improved both our financial situations. We agreed to a 50/50 marriage where we both have say in all aspects of our marriage. That is the only way I would have married him. You see I was financially secure before I met my DH. Yes, I did know he had children but he informed me they would be partically on their own after high school and totally on their own after 4 years of college. I agreed to this when I married him. So when we help the one out that has been out of 4 years of college for the last 3 years because she foolish took 2 trips instead of paying necessary bills, yes I become upset and yes the focus for me is money and a adult who is irresponsible and taking advantage of us. The same goes for the one in 4 year college when he blows money on unnecessay fun toys and then comes to us for money for necessary bills, yes it is about money and an adult who is irrespnsible, and taking advantage of us.
Do you know what type of arrangement your dad made with your stepmom? That is personal so you shouldn't know, but maybe just maybe they had an agreement before they got married about finances. That is their business not yours. They are a married couple. Would you want your dad putting his nose into your marriage arrangement and fiances. I don't believe your husband would appreciate that.

If your mother is so poor then maybe she should of selected a more finacially stable 2nd husband. Or maybe she should work really hard to save up alittle money to help you out with some of the wedding.

I love or would love to have my adult stepkids come and visit, or stay, or be a friend, but be respectful, kind, understanding, polite, interested in some of my life, and not always be looking for freebies or money related items or trying to cause conflict/turmoil or look for something to be wrong, or all about me me me, etc.
Does anyone want someone to come to their home cause turmoil and conflict? Ask for money or materail items all the time. I don't think so.

Agelstelli, A big wedding is not all it is cracked up to be. Who really cares about it in a few years. It is money thrown away in my eyes. What counts is a good stable happy relationship with your husband. Go off an elope and have a wonderful fun time. Keep posting, maybe someday I will understand why some feel entitled to what others have worked for.

Dear Sunnygardener, I completely understand your point about your parents money being their own and that we shouldn't feel entitled to it and I agree with you. But I have a question for you. If all three of your other sisters had been treated as the "favorite" by your parents and had been given new cars, plenty of money and everything else their little hearts desired including a nice, lavish, fancy wedding, meanwhile they refused to help you through college or to do anything to help you out in any way, how would you feel about that? Talk about a slap in the face! I think if you really read what angel has wrote, it's an issue of favortism. She feels that her stepmother chose a man who had a daughter and then did everything she could to erase his daughter from his life because it didn't fit with her vision of a "perfect family". No doubt life isn't always fair, but I think this situation is totally beyond unfair!

Also, she didn't say that her dad "controls" the money, she said "my father believes the man pays the household bills, it would be "unmanly" to do differently". Who has the control and who actually earns the money are 2 different animials.

I think you are assuming that angel is just like your stepchildren when everything she posted suggests the opposite.

"If your mother is so poor then maybe she should of selected a more finacially stable 2nd husband. Or maybe she should work really hard to save up a little money to help you out with some of the wedding."

That's a horrible thing to say. It makes it sound like she selected a husband at WalMart. Did you marry your husband for his money? If not, why should her mother?

And you have no way of knowing why she is poor - maybe it is because child support is determined unfairly as it is in my state, maybe she stayed home to raise the kids by mutual agreement so that she didn't have the opportunity to build her career. Maybe her husband talked her into giving up her job to follow him to a new one. Maybe fifty dollars in child support a week isn't enough to raise a child when the cost of housing is approximately equal to the take home pay of the average college graduate. Maybe she didn't have a chance to go to college. Maybe she had to take a job with flexible hours and a decent commute but lower pay because there was no one else to take care of her child when she was sick.

A person's worth has nothing to do with how much money they make. There are plenty of good people who are poor, and plenty of wealthy people who are evil. No one has a right to blame others for being poor. Just because you have plenty of money doesn't mean that those who don't are any less worthwhile, deserving, hardworking or even intelligent.

Raising yourself out of poverty is as much a matter of luck as it is merit.

I agree with the other side on this. I know plenty of rich people without morals.The fact they have money makes them think they are somehow better though.
I also agree there are so many reasons to be poor,one cant just say it's because they are lazy! How about the fact they are saying that "MIDDLE CLASS" is almost no more.Nowadays you are either rich or poor. And I think the amount of poor people is undoubtedly larger then rich.

Ok, I was born poor. My grandparents were poor lived in the depression, they lived with us. My parents were poor. We all worked very very hard to make it. We expect no hand outs and were taught we were resposible for our selves. Yes, some of my siblings have received more than me. My brother was given my grandparent's house, so what, it made me work that much harder to get what I wanted for my life. My one sister was given way more of my grandparent antiques, so what, I worked hard so I could get what I wanted or needed. My 1st marriage (18 years) we started out poor. We both worked hard to make it. We build our finances up and we knew if we kept a positive outlook, treated others how we would like to be treated, and hard work we could do it. We did. So yes, it can be done.
I guess I don't understand how others feel they are entitled to what others get. Life is not fair. That is reality. Once one becomes responsible for ones self all kinds of new doors open up. It may sound unreal, but, I have seen it happen with many people. It is not because they are lucky it is because they worked hard, had a positive attitude, treated others with kindness, and were responsible for what happened to them.

SunnyGardener, I agree.

Success happens when hard work and preparation meet opportunity. It's not luck.

You build character by climbing the mountain, not by landing on top of it.

My stepkids have everything they need. There is no incentive to do anything.

I know lots of people who work hard, have a positive attitude, treat others with kindness and take responsibility and still end up poor, just as you can exercise, eat well, and still end up dying young of cancer. Blaming others for their poverty is unfair and selfish.

How nice that it worked out for you (and no I'm not being sarcastic).It isnt that easy for everyone though.
Besides,I'm not getting into the debate about how poor people can stop being poor here.
I'm only saying that NOT ALL poor people are lazy or bad people.That I know just as many rich who cheat on their wives,are cruel to animals,abuse their children and cheat on their taxes.
So,money DOES NOT MAKE A BETTER PERSON. Look at celebs and all the money they have.If anything,they are MORE messed up then the average poor person.
Some people,like myself,arent all that concerned with money.
I dont need fancy cars and a big house and expensive clothes.I'am Rich in other ways in my life,and it gives me contentment.

No one said that money makes someone better.

Some people lack the ability to provide for themselves,
despite good intentions and hard work. Some people are disabled or mentally deficient. That's not what we're talking about here.

I believe southernsummer is the only one who fully understood my posts. I work with the poor and disabled. I do understand that being rich does not make you a better person. What I am talking about is the type of a well off adult stepchild who is irresponsible by putting fun before necessity and then expected dear dad to pay the bill for their foolishness. I am not talking about the poor and disadvantaged adult children.
Also, the bio mom who is fully capable of taking care of herself and has the money to spend foolish like on trips and her boyfriend, but can't give a dime to her own children, but can refer the kids to dad for money.

Some of you did not fully understand my post and like to twist the information around. To tell someone who is an advocate for the poor and disavantaged that they are selfish and unfair, is being selfish and unfair yourself.

"If your mother is so poor then maybe she should of selected a more finacially stable 2nd husband. Or maybe she should work really hard to save up alittle money to help you out with some of the wedding."

I think it is difficult to misinterpret this comment.

This comment has nothing to do with your personal situation, your stepchildren, or the mother of your stepchildren. This comment was about a biological mother about whom you know nothing, but whom you were more than willing to blame for her lack of money.

I am really loving this. I could never have a good
knock-down drag-out with my step-kids and bio-mom.
This is so cathartic. If we were all in one room, we would
be pulling hair and scratching, and kicking shins.

I remember once when bio-mom ordered me to go to my room.
What's funny is that it was my house! Isn't that a scream?

Yes, it's great to be able to absolutely speak our mind, and
take things out of context, and make personal attacks.
Really, these comments are not about you, they are about
our own steps and bios, but it's great to be able to
have surrogates to have a great violent cat-fight with.

OH my GOD! Whose having a cat fight here? That was very amusing. As far as I can see we are just sharing information.

"I do understand that being rich does not make you a better person. What I am talking about is the type of a well off adult stepchild who is irresponsible by putting fun before necessity and then expected dear dad to pay the bill for their foolishness. I am not talking about the poor and disadvantaged adult children."

Then I stand corrected.I do not think it's ok for adult children to be lazy and expect the parents to pay for all of their luxeries.
The subject has come up several times on the forum about how poor people are just lazy and rich people are better. I was just making sure that wasnt where it was going.

I could never "share information" with my step-kids or bio-mom. It's better just to avoid saying anything that
they could take out of context. It's better just to listen
and nod without saying anything.

Even the phrase "It's nice to see you" was answered with
"I have a name, you know".

Well I agree with all of you!! TOS - what you said is correct.

Angel...I was wondering if you ever asked your Dad to help, or if you decided to just do it on your own.

My own BF proposed over the weekend and I would also really like for my Dad to help me out with a wedding. I have never been married before and I do not have any children or anything. I've pretty much done everything on my own, including paying for school through student loans and scholarships. In the meantime, my Dad has helped his stepson through a very expensive legal battle due to a DUI in which one of his friends died in the accident...which turned it into vehicular homicide. He is also 24 years old and still living with his mom and my dad. As far as I know, he does not pay rent or pay for food or anything. He has mentioned going back to college (his 4th school/I don't think he's actually even made it through his freshman year yet) in August, but I don't think he even knows what he wants to go for. I don't mean to speak bad about him because I actually like my Dad's stepson, but as much as my Dad has helped him, I hope that he will want to help me pay for my wedding.

I'm going to wait a few weeks to see if he offers to help, but if he doesn't I think I want to ask him if he will. I just feel that because of all of the times he has been uninvolved in my life and as little as he has done to help me in the past, this is something that I would really appreciate from him.

I know that many of you are going to say that I should just have a small wedding, or elope, and part of me actually agrees with your viewpoint, after all, a wedding only lasts one day and then you have gone and spent all of that money...but on the other hand...haven't you all at some point dreamed of the day when you get to be the princess and everybody you love is there and you get to promise to spend your life with the man you love?

Congratulations raek!!!

If your dad helps great if he doesn't his loss to experience something very special to you and him as his daughter. I don't know, would/could you include your SM? I know your relationship is rocky at best with her.

But you'll never know until you ask. Hopefully he will offer.

Good luck!!

Cawfe,

Thanks!

What do you think would be a good way to include her? I plan to include her along with my Fiance's Stepmother with a corsage and all of that. I'm very close with his Dad and Stepmom and I that his Stepmom and my Mom will probably be very helpful in the planning of the wedding. I met him through his stepsister who was a friend of mine in college and ended up being my roommate for awhile after college. She will be one of my bridesmaids, so the 4 of us (my mom, her mom, her and I) will probably do a bunch of stuff together in the planning. His Dad has already offered to take care of the rehersal dinner. My mom has already offered to help some too, although I know that she can't afford to do much. His mom has also offered to do whatever she can to help, although she and her husband are going through some really financial hardships right now, so I wouldn't want to ask for much from them. I know she would bend over backward to do more than she should, but I really don't want to be a burden for them when they have way too much on their plates as it is right now.

I would be happy to include my SM as much as possible, but they are the only ones who live out of state, and so it's not like I can invite her to go with me to pick out linens or anything. Things have been a little bit better lately between the 2 of us, but I still think that it's mostly just us doing our best to be nice and to tollerate one another.

It makes me sad that my dad is the one who can most afford to help us out right now, and he is the only one who has not yet stepped up to offer any help.

My hubby's parents are very well off, and we got $500 when we got married just because people have money doesn't mean they want to part with it.

I don't know how to include her ... my wedding was $1500 total cheapie a saturday night had a buffet and 75 people showed up!!! No booze ... it was his 3rd wedding my first... how many time can you invite your friends and family to meet your newest wife! ... Not like they were invited to the divorces (smiles)

I think including her with a corsage shows a gesture of signifigance I remember another poster say I didn't even get a corsage at my SD wedding. I think any effort you make even if not reciprocated is worth it. Who knows they may surprise you... Did you tell them you were engaged yet? Ask her what was the best part of ceremony that she liked even if you thinks its stupid maybe its something you could include in yours... Ask her straight I want to include you but with you being out of state, can you think of any ways you might be able to help me menu choices something.

I planned mine in less than a month with a $1500 budget. Wasn't easy but we did it. Hardest part was telling my "social drinking siblings" no booze!!! that didn't go over too well until I said there is a bar 1/4 mile down the road beach side thats open til 2 am :)

Congratulations Raek! I wish you and your fiance all the best --

I imagine some of the newer ettiquette books and bridal magazines will have all sorts of suggestions for handling all of the 'steps' involved in ways that are respectful to all. Hopefully, each of your parents and their respective spouses, exes and significant others can be counted on to behave themselves? When my niece got married, she was escorted down the aisle by both her father and stepfather - one on each arm, and it was simply beautiful how well they handled it and how gracefully she thanked both of the men who raised her. It's something to strive for, and I hope your family can pull it off as well.

IMO, there's nothing wrong in asking your father if he'd be willing to help with your wedding financially -- especially if you make it clear to him that his wife will be included respectfully. I think the last thing any stepmom wants is to foot the bill for a fancy wedding hosted by her husband and his ex wife where she is treated like a second-class citizen. (Not to imply this is what you're planning at all -- just a fear you'll want to head off in advance.) For that reason, it's probably a good idea to figure out how all of the various bio- and step- parents would be included in advance, and outline your hopes/plans to your stepmother and father together before asking if they will help. That way, those potentially-awkward questions and worries can be avoided and there may be fewer hurt feelings.

Well...I sent an email to my Dad and SM on Friday with a picture of my ring and I asked them if they would like to come out for a weekend and go look at some of the places I'm considering for the ceremony and reception site. I haven't heard anything back yet.

I'm the child of a divorced Mom and Dad. I can't imagine asking either of them to pay for my wedding. I'm a grown up and part of that is paying your own way.

I recently got engaged to a girl from http://LovedByHer.com and would love a big wedding but can't afford it. Sooo, you live within your means (as I will) and decide what is important. I want my bride in a white dress so we are borrowing one, she would like a reception so we are renting the town "facility" at the local park and hosting reception. You make due with what you have. Oh yeah, for refreshments we have ask family members to bring pot luck and for the DJ I have a old CD player.

I can hardly wait to get married. How can it fail starting off with the example of living within our budget. Great message for us and our children.

Dallas, You ve got a really good attitude in wanting to pay your own way..Caused quite a rift in our family with demands for money for wedding..Good for you..Good luck...But what the heck is Loved by Her? Is that like Match.com?