I asked one cabinet/design showroom with a $1500 design retainer what would happen if I decided to go elsewhere, and they said that I would owe any additional fees for time spent beyond the amount covered by the retainer. So in the initial stages I wouldn't owe more than $1500, but after 10 hours or so then I'd owe on an hourly basis if I ended up going elsewhere.

get out. if your KD doesn't communicate well, and doesn't bring much inventiveness or design savvy to the party, well, there are plenty of people who sell cabinets.

this is part of the risk you take by going "cabinets first". it's not worth it. there are MANY manufacturers of very nice cabinets out there. the KD you use will determine the feel and function of your kitchen for years to come.

I agree with ed: Get out.

You have paid her a retainer, you have sampled her ideas and skills and are not impressed so have every right to back out. If they hit you up for more money for her time, make a written list incorporating the points you made above to tell her why you should not pay any additional.

frankly, $1,500 is a LOT OF MONEY for a design retainer.

There are KDs who rep cabinet lines who don't charge ANYTHING for basic workups. They retain ownership of the design.

If anyone in the future is going to pay a retainer, especially that much!!, insist that it allow you to take a full, complete design with you.

That hefty design fee should buy you better service than you're getting--you're getting worse treatment than most people get when they use a no-extra-fee cabinet rep.

Knowing you have more money to spend w/ her, she should be regarding this as an audition, and showing you some great service. She's not. If you go elsewhere, she'll get what she has earned--which is NOT your continued patronage.

I guess this is the reason I won't give anyone a design retainer. What happens if you're not happy with the design? Maybe you should have a frank conversation with her(I know, not easy). Or, maybe you can switch to a different KD at this firm. It seems a shame for you to lost your $1500 just because you don't gel with this person. It's hard to know in advance who you will work well with. I wouldn't just give up the retainer without saying anything.

If you're not happy with her drawings, I'm not sure why you're shopping them around. Maybe you should try and start from scratch elsewhere. You never know what you might find.

BTW...I am considering Adelphi cabinets. A couple of people on this forum have them and are very happy. You might do a search at the bottom of the page. The KD I'm working with is very good with "layouts" but I don't really think he brings anything to the table in terms of design elements. So far I've been on my own with that and am now interviewing interior designers. This project is too much of an investment for something not to look right. He didn't ask for any design retainer, but I've certainly been involved in the layout design. I think his pricing is great and that's really why I'm sticking around.

i meant to comment--there's no question of "ethics" involved in this, and it's not "mean" to terminate a professional relationship because it's not working for you.

you are paying for services. part of the markup on the cabinets buys you design services. you should expect some very high quality service for your money.

if you don't feel that you're getting that, then you have every right to move on. nothing unethical about it. and it's certainly not "mean".

what would be unethical and mean would be to shortchange yourself and not get the kitchen you really want because you were too worried about ruffling feathers or hurting someone's feelings. it would be mean to do that to yourself!

Meanness and non-meanness aside, if I am not mistaken, the designs you KD has made are her copyrighted property, and you're in legal hot water if you take them elsewhere.

and if your agreement says so, the "artist" can sell you the rights to the design they create.

And if you're paying $1,500, you should insist that this BE part of the agreement. Before you sign the it (of course).

Maybe I'm out of touch, but I think that's a LOT of money for you to pay with NOTHING to show for it.

As far as the narrow issue of whether you would owe her any more if you left now, you have to look to the contract that you signed. But your original post seems to suggest that you haven't used up the hours encompassed in the retainer/minimum cost. In which case, consider that a sunk cost and take another approach.

1) Get out. Why wouldn't you?
2) Ask for $1,000 BACK from the retainer. That gives you good starting point to attempt to save some money.

With the real estate/home building industry putting all four paws up in the air in this area, there is NO reason to settle for anything but excellent service.

It doesn't mean you're bad, and it doesn't mean she's bad, but she's not living up to your expectations.

Cut your losses and move on.

Jim

I agree with a few folks. I personally would never pay a retainer for a design. I went to three different KDs who represented different cabinet lines and none of them charged me a thing for their basic workups. One in fact gave me the design to take (and these were higher end cabinet lines, not a big box store).

Maybe its just that way in my area, but all KDs I met with do the basic design at no cost with perhaps some additional tweaking in a second meeting before any of them would suggest that a depsoit would be required for the next step.

If anyone is going to pay a retainer, you best make sure it gives you full rights to any work product and design arising out of what you paid for. But unless people in my area do things differently, I see no reason to pay such a cost before even starting the process

We paid a KD $3,000 as a retainer, I guess you'd call it. I was naive and didn't realize that was highway robbery! (It went toward nothing -- not to cabinets if purchased through her, not to her design fee if we chose to not purchase from one of her lines.)

The best thing (seriously) which happened to us was that she "fired" us (for talking with a GC to whom she didn't introduce us, meaning no payback for her). We were definitely out the $3,000 and while yes, in our case we did not have a "design" we did have a "concept" (which was really ours in the first place!). So that "concept" we shopped around (and it turned out the KD's measurements had no basis in reality).

For us, that $3,000 was a significant sum of money but it may have been the best $3,000 we spent (okay, lost) on this kitchen. What I mean is -- we didn't work with her or her farchadat design, and both would have spelt big time trouble for us down the road. Phew! Redoing a kitchen is such a stressful thing -- why add a KD with whom you don't have a good working (or personal) relationship to that already volatile mix?

Would I rather have the money and not have worked with her? You bet, but that's not how it happened, and in truth, working with her was an enormous learning experience for me. Huge. I learnt not just about certain aspects of our kitchen design, I also learnt what I shall, shall not, can and cannot brook.

If you walk away from this KD now, you might (or might not) be out the $1,500. However, you will know what you need from and in your next KD and, hopefully, you'll be able to articulate such (e.g., "I expect e-mails / phone calls returned within X time. I expect to know where we are dollar-wise along the way. I expect that at each meeting progress in the design will have been made ...."). You'll have a better idea of what you want to see in your kitchen design and from your kitchen designer.

Based on what you wrote I think you are headed for some bad feelings -- anger / frustration with both the KD and yourself for having wasted so much time and potentially money (if you purchase cabinetry for a design you don't love). If ethics are something which concern you, then I also think you should let this KD know how you feel about her work performance (you can do this in writing). If she's worth her salt, she'll want to know how to improve her services. If she's not, then it'll be even more fortunate you won't be working with her anymore!

I really, really wish you the best of luck. I'll be thinking of you.

"It also feels like she is editing her choices of design based on cost."

Well, I just have to say that you DO get more creativity and "stuff" for more money, but if your budget won't buy all of the creativity that you are seeking in that particular cabinet line, then perhaps that's why you're not seeing her being more creative. You've set limitations as to what she can accomplish based on your budget limitations. Perhaps you need to have that conversation with her before you "fire" her. WHen the client sets limits in the beginning, a good KD doesn't cross those lines. However, sometimes the client doesn't realize how limiting that can be for the whole process.

My intention isn't to be nasty, but I will be blunt. What qualifies this woman or most any KD to charge $150/hour?!

In order to charge almost that amount I earned a Ph.D. and had to pass licensing examinations for each of the three states I'm permitted to practice. To get to there I completed four years undergrad + four years grad + an extra six months to complete my dissertation + three internships + one year post grad accruing hours + studying 100 or more hours in order to pass a national written test + studying 50 or more hours in order to pass an oral exam in order to be licensed to practice + 30 Continuing Education hours biannually to maintain my license.

To justify the big bucks I take ongoing courses to remain current in my areas of expertise. Expenses include office space and staff. When someone calls I get back to them within 24 hours and make sure they're scheduled for an appointment within one week. For the most part, phone consultations are free. I always have at least one low or no fee (pro bono) client.

Yes, I am darn near a saint, but fortunately I have a wife and kids who dope slap me when I need it and wear their "I'm With Stupid" tee shirts when they're out with me in public.

Of the dozen or so "interior designers" I've met only one impressed me as someone who has the credentials, experience and ability to charge what he does. Even then, it took me some time to realize how talented he is. I saw his home, restaurants and homes he designed and saw his responsiveness and work ethic. He happens to be a friend and even at a discounted rate I cannot afford him to design my current kitchen remodel. He doesn't have NKBA Certification (which looks like a good starting point if you're going to shell out the long green) but he has technical and architectural knowledge that makes what he does appear easy.

When I read about these KD's who are "nice people" but don't deliver the services they're highly paid to deliver, it never ceases to amaze me that folks tolerate it. I know that the more people are paid, the more leeway others give them. But if you're forking over your hard earned money at the rate of $2.50 a minute, they'd better be giving you your money's worth. What ever happened to "value added" and "exceeding your customer's expectation?"

My recommendation to Jenna would be to meet with the KD and lay all the cards on the table. Nicely but firmly tell her what you want (costs, timeline, etc.) and let her know that she hasn't been living up to your expectations of someone who is being paid $150 an hour. If being "nice" was a prerequisite for keeping a job a lot of competent people would be fired in a minute (when I worked at a hospital I knew a lot of great doctors and surgeons who were not particularly "nice people"). If she "gets in trouble with her company" that's her fault for not doing a good job.

Anything less than a professional response and follow through from your KD is your...

FWIW, I really like my kitchen designer, whom I paid $2,500. I didn't realize at the time how expensive it was, because I work in advertising and $2,500 for creative concepts seemed reasonable compared to what it would've bought in the advertising world. I saw her work first on a kitchen walk and was really impressed. She never even told me she rep'd a cabinet line. I had to ask if she had any suggestions.

I also had drawings from 2 other places -- big box and littler box -- and they sucked compared to what my $2,500 bought me. And they bought me 4 different initial layouts, all revisions, demolition plan, elevations, and electrical/lighting that I could take to our Village for permitting without having an architect or anyone else involved. And I shopped her designs out all over town for cabinets. I'll probably end up buying from her anyway.

Sometimes $2,500 for a CKD, actually is worth it. But in your case, I'd say not. I wanted a CKD because I wanted someone to tell me all about the bells and whistles that are available. She brought that plus a lot of insight into cabinet heights/colors/layout, etc.

Good luck.

Hello all,
Thank you all so much for your input/advice. Re: my disapointing experience with the KD. I agree with the general consensus that it is time to be a grown up and have a hard conversation with the woman about my concerns.
Being a certified "conflictaphobic" I have spent an enormous amount of time and energy in my life avoiding uncomfortable situations/confrontations.
I will let everyone know how things work out. . . Re Adelphi cabinets - does anyone know anything about Adelphi cabinets?

If I could get an experience like jeanar's, I'd spend $2,500. But you note that jeanar walked around w/ the design, for other people to see and bid on. She got something specific for her money--FOUR designs she could shop around, PLUS plans to use when filing for permits.

That's my point. Nobody should charge you $1,000 and not give you something you OWN. Them showing you ideas is not worth money. Them selling you a concrete, photocopyable plan, is.

I feel that if you are paying by the hour you own the product of the hour. However, if you signed anything, that would trump what anyone feels!

I also think that if she is charging you a retainer, if you stop work, she should return any unused hours $$.

I worked with a KD and had a hourly agreement, then when I ended up buying the cabinets through her, she took comission instead of the hourly rate. I designed it this way so there would be no hard feelings if I didn't want her cabinets.