You have my sympathy...It is sad that your husband cant see what is really important here. He obviously isnt that great a dad to begin with,and doesnt sound like he takes his marriges that seriously either.
I think you should just be thankful you werent like so many other women on the forum who get trapped into taking care of these kids full-time while their spouses work long hours and dont take any of the responsibility of their own children. They become very resentful,and feel unappreciated and taken for granted.
I think since the daughter was not really in the picture when you met and married him,that he has no right assuming you'd want to take on his parenting duties. It is HIS responsibility,not yours.
I'm so sorry it seems like it will not work out for you,but I honestly think you are doing the right thing by standing your ground.To be honest,I dont know many women who WOULD put up with what you've described.
The fact that your husband doesnt care about the "trashcan" thing makes me wonder about his common sense regarding health issues and being sanitary. If there is a next time,leave it there and make him clean it up.Then you can see if he thinks it's so cute.
I'm sure other will have good advice and support for you as well.

I agree with coolmama. Be GLAD you didn't get trapped. It is too bad that your BF can't see the situation like it is: He's being irresponsible in his parenting duties by not cutting back on work and by assuming you're the live-in help who will just bow down to he, the daughter, and ex-wife while giving up your spare time, your way of living, and your home to accomodate their self-serving ways.

Silvergypsy-

My very best wishes for you....I commend you for recognizing a toxic situation for what is was. You are young (stated), caring (indicated by your seeking out this forum), and articulate (obvious in previous thread). I know you will be able to move on. Do not beat yourself up for knowing that you were being dealt a hand that you didn't want,could not,or have the support to play. Many of us on this forum spend every single day trying to appreciate the good in our lives (husbands, subsequent child(ren)) while turning ourselves inside out trying to make the best of a bad situation. I cannot speak for everyone, but I would venture to say that I am not alone when I say that it is only the subsequent biological child(ren) that keep us from saying "if I had it do do all over again...."

I hope that it's not long before you(if you can't already) can have confidence in holding your ground. IT IS the right decision for who you are and where you are. If you need a little nudge---frame it this way---would you ever expect of anyone, what your fiance was expecting of you?

Stop, reread that last sentence and think about it for a second.....

I am a big believer in "doing unto others as you would have done to you" Take solace in the fact that under no circumstances should that mean that you should "be undone".

I sincerely wish you the best.

I hope you will keep us posted.

silvergypsy- I am so sorry to hear that things aren't working out between you and your fiance. I can't help but think that if he doesn't "back you up" or support you with something so simple as hygiene, what would happen when the bigger problems present themselves? I wish you the best. Please keep us all posted on how you're doing.

That is awful, but if you aren't ready for it, and he isn't being parental enough it might be a better thing for you. Sometimes stuff happens, and you gotta do what you gotta do. It's alright to not be ready for huge responsibility like that, that you didn't realize you were in for.

Myself being a stepchild found that with my parents always with their 'on-off' relationships, hopping to new people every couple years, was stressful. I just hope that she doesn't think it's her fault. She's just a kid.

In the end it may be for the best. It will save both you and the kid a lot of stress. She won't have to feel guilty for you and your guy's disagreements and you won't have to take on full responsibility of someone else child.

It's not fair that he put that much pressure on you to begin with.

silvergypsy,

I know it must be very difficult for you right now but believe me ....it is better for you to put your foot down now in regards to your fiancé's daughter than doing what I did 18 years ago and do everything for my husband because I felt sad for him, because I felt guilty if I didn't help him out with his children, because of this, because of that...

I know we cannot turn back time, but believe me, if I met my husband today, I would not get so involved with his children! I would think of '' me '' first and what I wanted in a relationship before embarking on one where the man really gives you the impression he appreciates what you do for him and his children but deep down .....he doesn't really care cuz if it wouldn't be you, it would be another woman!

I wish I would have been as strong as you are today when I met my husband 18 years ago.

Keep posting!

One thing to keep in mind is that he could be "testing" you -- threatening you so that you'll realize how much you love him and don't want him to leave......I have seen that manipulation done to lots of people!

Bottom line is that you recognized a difficult situation and now if your chance to step away without any guilt (not that you should have any....but in case you question whether or not you gave it a chance, etc.). As everyone on this board knows and has stated -- it won't get better after you marry....it will, without a doubt, get worse.

You're young, smart and now free from having to worry about such serious problems that were brought upon you just because you chose to love that man. There are other men...and if it takes a while to find the right one, so be it. I was divorced from my first marriage at 27 and didn't remarry until I was 43! Let me tell you....it WAS worth the wait (despite the crazy ex-wife and my psycho SD!).

I wish you the best....you are/were very smart and insightful...you should feel proud!

And, by the way....it isn't "the end of [your] story"....it's a new beginning for you! Good Luck!
Jerseystepmom

It looks as if you both know what you want and need, and that you both have come to the realization that regardless of what you feel for one another, neither of you are the person the other wants, if you look at it... AS IT IS, and not how you wish it was.

He needs and wants (due to his work) a woman who is ready, willing, and able to help him raise his daughter. Because he works such long hours, he is not able to do all that must be done. And he knows it. And yet, he still wants custody of his daughter. He still wants better for her than his ex can offer, so he needs the kind of woman who is willing to step in and do all that needs to be done to care for her, accept her, and help make a home for her. The kind of woman who will set aside her own desires, and raise his little girl.

You are a young woman with your life ahead of you. You do not want to put yourself out, or do anything to help raise this girl that you do not want to be responsible for. You do not want her even in your home. Hearing how you felt about her, I don't think that there was any way this was going to turn out to be a happy little family. Find a man without children, and build your life without the problems that so many step families struggle with. An ex who always seems to be in the picture. Listen to those who have walked the path of step parenting, and you will hear that there are issues that extend well into their adulthood, and beyond.
From what you wrote, I cannot imagine that you should ever try and step parent this young girl.

I hope the future brings you both what you want in life.

P.S. I admire your strength, and vision for your life. So many young women would have not seen this as clearly as you have, nor would they have had the strength to let go of the guy, in spite of the writing on the wall.

Wow. I can't begin to express how much I thank you all for this support. I knew this was coming, sooner or later, the moment he said his daughter was coming to live with us. I'm not going to lie--I'm having a really hard time. This feels AWFUL, and I miss him like crazy, and part of me wishes I *could* accept his new situation with his daughter.

So yeah, I feel pretty awful. And pretty lonely. I've lived with him for 2 years, and he's my partner, but not anymore. Not to mention all the confusion about the apartment, our belongings, and all that stuff that hasn't even been touched upon yet. It's overwhelming to dwell on that for more than a minute.

I know that I have to deal with all this sadness to get to whatever's on the other side. And I know that what's waiting for me in the future is undoubtedly better than what I just lost. It's just that the time spent getting to where I feel happy and comfortable again is going to hurt like crazy.

I'll keep checking back in.

"I know that what's waiting for me in the future is undoubtedly better than what I just lost."

You got that right...even though I know it's hard. But bnicebkind said you are young and have your whole life in front of you. And as much as it does hurt,it could have hurt alot worse for everyone years down the line had you stayed in this situation.
I too admire you and think many women would be wise to follow your example. (admitting they cant do it before it is too late)
Best of luck to you! :)

amen, coolmamma & bricebkind.

"I need a woman who can raise my daughter"

Agghh!

I've heard very similar words myself.

& they're revealing:

the guy didn't say, "I need you, I need a partner, I need someone who will *help* *me* raise my daughter".

He needs a nanny/babysitter/housemaid, & a fiancee or wife is cheaper than hiring help (& won't balk at the kind of behavior a nanny, etc would never tolerate).

Celebrate!

You've done the brave thing, the wise thing, the thing that'll work.

"I need a woman who can raise my daughter,"

I understand you can order them over the Internet in several different flavors -- Russian, Phillipino, Taiwanese, Latin American...

Sorry - That attitude really offends me. He needs to BECOME a good parent, not find one.

I see a man who is trying to make a home and family for his daughter, as a man who is trying as best he knows how, to do the right thing. He cares enough about his child, that he is willing to walk away from a woman he loves, for his child. Not many men are willing to do that. I admire his backbone. How many guys would have married the woman anyway...in spite of how she was treating his child?

His problem is that his job is demanding too many hours. What companies require ANYONE to work 18 hour days, on a regular basis?????????? How could he have a relationship with ANYBODY, working 18 hour days?

Obviously, he wants a better life than his ex can give her, and he recognizes that, but he does not know who to do it, and keep his job.

It is not unrealistic to hope that the person you are going to marry "wants" to help where they can. Poster wasn't willing to help at all. She was not willing to lift a finger, or put herself out at all to help him with his child. This was not going to work. On the other hand, if he really did work those hours, then he really was not in any position to expect another to do what he should be doing, or at least participating in.

He needs to make some hard choices. if he wants custody of his daughter, than he needs a job so that he can actually be a parent to his daughter, and not expect someone else to do the entire job for him. i think in his mind he is rescuing her, but is not in the position to do what he wants to do.

Hi everyone...I'm still reading, and I appreciate all the discussion.

bnicebkind, I see where you are coming from. I'm the first to admit that I wasn't willing to lift a finger here--for one thing, I don't have the time. I work from 8-4 and go to school nights Monday-Thursday. I've always been the one who cleans, cooks, and shops in our household. If I sat around doing nothing all day, that would be a different matter. I have supported him in *everything*, and made a lot of sacrifices in the process. But this, on top of everything else, was too big a sacrifice.

As for his work schedule, he's a truck driver, and he's only been at this job for 3 months. His boss doesn't *require* him to work 18 hours a day. But he wants the money, so he takes all the work he can get, and even though the money's good, we still had our financial ups and downs. It wasn't unrealistic of him to expect SOME help from me--but again, he wanted me to do it all, and when I didn't, he decided to give me what amounts to an ultimatum.

Let me tell you what happened today, so that you can get a feeling of what he is/isn't willing to give up for his daughter. He went out this morning and traded in his middle-of-the-road SUV (which, with insurance, cost him about $450 a month) for a Cadillac SUV...which, with insurance, will cost him $975 a month. Even with our combined incomes, he would have a hard time making that payment. He told me that in order to pay for this luxury truck, he'll have to work even MORE hours, including Saturdays and Sundays.

At the moment, he's still living in our apartment--I'm at my mom's and told him he can have it until he finds another place. The way I see it, his ONLY concerns right now should be finding a place to live with his daughter, and arranging some kind of hired care for her while he's working 16, 17, 18 hours a day.

Clearly, with or without me, he's not putting his daughter first, which gives me a lot less guilt about this situation.

Wow, talk about some messed up priorities....I think $450 is a high car payment....$975?!!! That would rent a nice apartment here!

I've read this and your other thread, and I just want to say that you have made a difficult but absolutely RIGHT decision. There's been enough good advice, opinions, and others' life stories....I can't add much except to say that I wish I had been as smart as you are when the sh*t hit the fan. I wasted an embarrassing amount of my life in a bad situation. Yes, I got out, but I'm having a really hard time dealing with all the time I lost. I'm closing in on 49...ack.

BRAVO to you!!!

I read your other post first and I left a comment there and I stand by that comment but I do have to commend you on knowing what you want from life and what you dont. I do think that when you KNOW that you dont want to raise someone elses child, you walk away.

Do you ever want kids of your own??
My only thought on that is .... you have your own child, and you possibly get divorced... then you get involved with someone, you fall in love.... then you find out he hates your child... and leaves you because of your child... how would you feel??
Just a question... Not that I think your wrong for leaving Im glad you did because it was just going to get worse and leave more scars on a child that didnt deserve it.
Good luck to you I hope you find the life your looking for!!

going bonkers, I did read your comment on the other thread and I appreciate your good wishes here on this one.

I don't HATE his child. I do want kids of my own, and I've thought about how I'd feel if I was in my ex's shoes. And what I've come up with is:

I would never expect someone else to do what he's expecting me to do. The reason I haven't had a child yet is because I wasn't ready. I don't want to have a child I can't support, financially and emotionally.

So hard as I try, I can't really see myself in his shoes. I would never, ever be in his or the BM's position--having a child at age 17 who is the product of a fling; going on to have 4 more kids I can't support; relying on my family to support me and my kids financially; and worst of all, not raising my child from DAY ONE to be responsible and clean and well-rounded and emotionally healthy.

If I'm ever one day in the situation that he's in, and a man I love just "hates" my child, that would be awful. But that's not the case here.

weed30--thank you for your thoughts. I'm having a very, very hard time but it means so much that most of you are telling me I'm doing the right thing. We live in NJ, where rentals (and houses) are very costly and car insurance is ridiculously expensive--$950 is what we were paying for our apartment, and I can't imagine spending the same amount on a car! So yeah, that IS shocking in every way. I wish you the absolute best in moving on with your life.

No matter what you do, there is no guarantee that your children will turn out "responsible and clean and well-rounded and emotionally healthy." And even if they have all those attributes, at 13 they will undoubtedly have some characteristics you won't like. But, in the case of your own child, you will hopefully tolerate those characteristics that annoy you, because you will love him or her with all your heart.

Of course, theotherside. The point was, I wouldn't dare try to force the responsibility of raising my children on a totally unrelated person, especially if I hadn't already done the best *I* could.

silvergypsy...again, I am impressed by your strength and insite on this. You seem wise beyond your years. And you are right...the fact that he is working such ridiculous hours for more money, and then turns around and takes on a $975 car payment, and is now committing himself to working weekends too, shows a man with little commitment to his role as a father. He says one thing, but does another. His priorities do not show a man willing to give his daughter the time she desperately needs from him. Perhaps one day he will realize how quickly her childhood goes, and he will regret that he did not spend the time being the father she needed him to be.

I had drawn the conclusion in my earlier post that he wanted so much to make a home for his child. But when you tell us that by buying this expensive SUV, and that he is going to go from working 18 hour days, to now working all weekend too, just to pay for this status vehicle, he showed that material things matter more to him, than giving his daughter the gift of time, and giving her the gift of a father like other kids have. A father who actually wants to to be in her life. What good is it to her, if the only time he is there, is when she is asleep?

I hope he realizes one day that the most beautiful gift he can give his little girl is the gift of his time. It tells her that she means the world to him. There is no one else that can be her father. It will tell her that she matters in this world to him. And his actions speak so much louder than his words. The truth is in what he does for her, and what he is willing to give up to make her life better.

Bonjour silvergypsy,

I thought about you this weekend and the strenght you are displaying towards your situation has given me the courage to be less emotional this weekend and to think a little bit more with my head instead of my heart in regards to a situation that happened with DH.

I know you are feeling sad right now but I am sure things will turn out right for both you and your financé. Once he has left the appartment, you will return to live there and you will take it one day at a time. I see you are very busy with work /school and that is a good thing! It will keep your mind a little bit away from what you are going through.

Believe me your financé will be calling you back in no time.

Keep posting.

Remove the child from this equation and silvergypsy you are still much better off even though it hurts now. In your first post I felt terribly sorry for your BF's daughter. It appears that neither parent cares about her and she sure could use someone to help guide her, love her, teach her. Even if you wanted to sign on for that you would be stuck with an inconsiderate, immature, uncaring, selfish BF. I still feel the girl but it not your responsibility. Good luck.

I just read both of your threads and I'd say it's clear and unarguable that you are better off without this guy. In fact, I'd look at the whole experience as a blessing in disguise. If he treats his daughter this way, how would he treat the kids he was going to have with you? How much responsibility, help, time, etc. will he take with those future children? These issues might never have surfaced until you were married and had kids, now you have the advantage of knowing his true colors before that happens. (And this is over and above what's already gone on between you which in my eyes is irrepairable harm to the relationship.)

I take it the apartment is yours and is a rental. If that's so, I'd get over there as soon as possible and pack up all of his belongings, change the locks and make it clear that he is no longer welcome. Or, if that's not possible, pack up your stuff and move and let the management know you are no longer living there or taking responsibility for the rent or condition of the apartment. The longer you're gone, letting them have "possession" of the apartment, the worse condition it's going to be when you get back.

Based on what you've written here, my best advice is to completely disassociate yourself from this guy immediately. Good luck.

what lowspark said.

Lowspark has a really good point -- 'Responsibility' doesn't appear to be this guy's strong point, and his parents seem ready to bail him out indefinitely. Let him move in with them. Who knows how long he'll live rent-free in YOUR apartment?

I will say it again, difficult as it is, you are making the RIGHT decision, .

Just in case you're feeling weak, and he is trying to 'work you', or does that in the future, feel free to email me. I can tell you about apologies and promises that mean nothing. And they are not specific to my situation.

Lest you think I am bitter, and not a good font of advice, I can tell you that I have seen and heard the same kind of theme too many times.

weed30 at charter dot net.

You are doing the right thing. This man is avoiding responsibility. The long hours etc..etc...he is putting his own interests first,not his daughters. And i wont even comment on the toilet issue. actually i will. That is the most disgusting thing! My father did the same thing after coming back from europe. Apparently the pipes are very narrow and by law you have to place your paper into the waste basket. Well he continued this after coming hoem and let me tell you , i did not tolerate that! That is unsanitary! Period and for this man to make a point to leave you because of it , is ABSURD!
Congrats, you are doign the right thing. He doesn't have to work that many hours. He is a fulltime parent and if he wants a baby sitter slash slave then i've her also he can order one from russia etc.etc...
Unreal!
Yah, it does sound like a scare tactic too but i would start packing his stuff up. Bring soem boxes ...you will be better off.
He has his daughter full time. He has to make some sacrifices. I didn't see him saying' We have to taek care of my daughter"...its all , well you are not doing it.
This is your apartment. Pack his stuff and set them by the door.

You're young, you have a lateral attitude to your predicament which can only be admired. Move on to the life which you deserve. Having been in your shoes, I know that it dosen't pay to stick around. Your story reads a little too close to mine, right down to the smelly feet (I thought a small animal had died in the apartment) down to the lack of toilet training, in my case, it was the used sanitary napkins left on the sofa and tampons left by my computer. I married my husband with the understanding that I wanted to have nothing to do with his youngest daughter (the product a very short realtionship with a rather unstable woman). This was fine with him but every now and then she will pop up with the latest drama and this will cause a rift between us for at least a day or more. Mostly because he allows her to get way with more than I can ever remember getting away with or more than I would ever allow my own child to get away with. I too used to drag out the Lysol everytime my step daughter came to stay with us. She would leave her pubic hair in my shaver and things would sort of escalate from there, mostly because her father would blame me for over reacting and I would always be left without a leg to stand on. Logic would occassionally leave me thinking to myself, "If this (SD) were someone that I met on the street or out of the blue, she would be someone I would want nothing to do with. She is totally and absolutely everything I was brought up not to be." I'm sorry that there are children out there who suffer. I am adopted and I come from a broken home. I suffered four years of sexual abuse as a small child at the hands of a family relative but I never behaved the way Amy is behaving nor the way my own SD has behaved. And my adoptive parents weren't exactly saintly angels. Given their dues, they kept me in clean clothes and fed but life was far from perfect. I get mad when I read this stuff about 'poor kids'... I've always been more than decent to my step daughter and would have happily had her live with us except that she is so totally 'one of a kind' and I would have been doing myself a diservice to have had it any other way. She no doubt feels this from me but that is not my responsibility. I can't be the resucer when my heart isn't in it.

You wrote that this is 'the end of your story' but really, I can't help feeling that this is 'the beginning of your story'.... a wonderful and happy story....

I wish you every joy,
Aldra

Aldra,

I have a hard time understanding your logic or that of your husband. Why would you marry a man if you want "nothing to do with his daughter"? and why would he marry you?

Raek,

All I can say is, stranger things have happened. I married my husband because the world seemed an infinitely brighter place with him in it and I think the same can be said in reverse. He has three older children with whom I am very close and whom I love dearly. Where his youngest daughter is concerned, I simply am not prepared to pick up someone else's mess or to force feelings that don't exsist. Whilst I have never wished my step daughter ill I have trouble sustaining an intimacy that does not exsist. Step daughter has a mother, she has grand parents, half siblings, aunts, uncles and cousins. She's always complaining about her life but in reality it's pretty cosy. Where as once I entertained the idea of having a child, since meeting her I've had to seriously rethink myself. It's been an extremely painful process. I admire women that can take on other people's children. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them. As for my husband, he knew what he was getting and somehow things have managed to work. I think that it's possible without anyone falling apart though there have been the moments when I have wanted to do just that. I hope this has answered your question.

Raek,
I don't think her point was she wante nothing to do with his daughter... Her point was it wasn't her responsibility. It would be different if the man was trying to be responsible, then and only then as his partner she would become responsible for some of her care. But when he is by choice working 18hr days... and now choosing to also work the weekends... That would leave the child rearing TOTALLY up to her! And then she wouldn't have the right to correct the child... (because father allows her to do whatever she wishes.) That would leave silvergypsy in quite an unhappy situation where the daughter obviously rules the home and there is no father to help... I believe you have definately made the right desicion... This man obviously does not have his priorities in order!!! I feel very sad for this child who IS going to be lost in all of this! I guess I need to read your other posts to know the whole situation and find out where BM is..... but trust me you are a very intelligent woman for making this very hard decision.

sandstone...I absolutely agree with everybody that silvergypsy shouldn't continue the relationship with this guy. I can't understand why anybody would spend that kind of money on a car when they have so many other responsibilities. My question wasn't about that though. I just don't understand why a father would happily marry a woman who makes it clear she wants nothing to do with his daughter.

It's a little like this raek, sometimes it isn't just about the kids. Adults have rights also. My youngest step-daughter is not an evil person, I am not an evil person. However, the two of us living together, being together at any point in time would have been a recipie for disaster. She's incredibly spoilt, manipultive and lazy. The world must always revolve around her, or else it doesn't revolve. My keeping my distance is a way of keeping my sanity and keeping my marriage. I encourage my husband to see her as much as possible. I just don't want to be around when he does. I must explain, my husband isn't your regular 'koochy-koo' sort of dad. He loves his kids but in that remote patriarchal way that to me seems so 1950's. One of the things that he loved about me when we first met was that I didn't seem to have a maternal bone in my body (I don't) and he imagined us having this wonderful life together sans children. Of course it doesn't work that way, as you may well know and kids do get caught in the middle. But it's hard to be a responsible step anything if the birth parents aren't prepared to be responsible parents and if in doing the right thing you constantly see yourself being relegated to second place, step place. I abdicated before it got too bad. This way, my husband is free to have the realtionship he wants with his daughter and I am free to avoid being trampled on.