i talked with the builder. we've got 16,000 off. he doesn't see how we can get another 14 off. we have to have a 2 car garage - required by the neighborhood. i personally prefer carports because they are easier to keep clean and you don't have to fool with a door, but the rules are the rules :( jennybc, that's a good idea about the surround sound. it is something that i'd really like to have in the future for music outside while entertaining. i asked about the ceilings and he said that they would end up having to build a separate knee wall or something (not sure i'm quoting him correctly) and that lumber comes in 12 feet anyway, so that it wouldn't be much of a savings. he didn't want to go down to 8 upstairs. we do have bunk beds, so I didn't fight him on that. all in all i think he wasn't comfortable with 10 downstairs because the standard in the neighborhood is 11. should i push him on this? what kind of savings are we talking about if i did 10 everywhere downstairs except the den. 3,000? 5,000? i think he's stuck on 11ft because he likes nice things - earlier in the process, he was trying to encourage me to use a big professional range when i'm just fine with a 32' KitchenAid architect series. a couple of months ago he was voted builder of the year from the local parade of homes, so he wants to keep his work impressive, i guess. i need to look at the plans to see about moving the garage. it might not be possible on our narrow lot. it's like a rubik's cube trying to fit everything. i know what i wanted to ask, and i forgot - air conditioning. in the house we live in now (built in 2006), we have only one AC little air vent thing in each room except for the den,kitchen, and master bedroom. those rooms each have 2 vents. i noticed on our plans for the new house that there are 2 vents in every room. even the super tiny kid's rooms. should we switch to one vent in those 3 rooms as well as the small formal dining room and small guest/study room? would that save money by eliminating the big octopus arms in the attic? these are the cabinets i have in my house now, and this is what i want in the new house, except with straight edge trim on top.

that's one way to look at it. It sounds worse the way you describe it... He/we borrowed money to pay off credit cards... which consolidated everything to one lower payment a month so then he figured he could afford a motorcycle payment. After I said we can't afford it, he got together with his parents & they discussed how it would save money on gas and all the pluses... he could get to work & home faster. Then his parents made me feel like a heel for wanting to deprive their son of having his own motorcycle... after all, he works so hard. His brother has one & soon after DH got his, FIL bought one... they said to go riding together, which hasn't happened yet. He justifies it because he works 40+ hours at his job, works at our business on his days off & in the evening, maintains the 6 acres during Spring & Summer. He does work hard, but I disagreed, his parents butted in (with his invitation of course) so when they complain he hasn't made his payment (on the debt consolidation), I ignore it or tell them how much he loves riding his bike... when it's not raining or cold. He doesn't miss the motorcycle payment though. No, it doesn't escape me that he is willing to buy what he wants & tell his daughter we can't afford it when she WANTS something. He does pay for the health insurance but I pay all the co-pays and other things because he puts his entire check toward the bills, including paying his parents back for the debt consolidation loan... and it was mostly HIS pre-me debt. He did sell his truck because it was only driven a few times a year & we wanted to get rid of that payment when the economy tanked. If she needs something, he will make sure she gets it. But, he'll take it out of our bill paying account & then tell me he needs me to cover some of the bills that he usually covers. It still comes out of my pocket... but it is really OUR pocket. I buy those things because it was what I did as a mother for my own kids... he thinks some of it is unnecessary ~ the extra's like school pictures, yearbooks & fundraisers, not the health care. He also doesn't like shopping & doesn't have patience... he used to go into the store knowing her current size & buy a few cheap outfits at a department store... sometimes the SAME outfit in different colors. That was when she was 5-6. She's now 11 & he would do the same.. he took her shopping for school clothes & dragged me along. It was a nightmare for me because he is so impatient & they argued over what she could get. (wanting low rise skinny jeans) plus she was upset that nothing fit her. Then he about had a heart attack at the register... until I told him that the last time I took her shopping, it was at least twice that much. AS for the update on MIL: We went to dinner at the restaurant last night & left baby at home with my DD. MIL sat furthest away from her parents (across from me) & SD between us at the end of the table. She interrogated... er, conversed with SD about life at our house & life at her mother's house.... anything to avoid her own parents, who seemed miserable. Then, MIL had planned us to come to her house tomorrow evening but I had plans so she moved it up to tonight. DH went straight from work. I took SD & my DS stayed at my house with the baby. By the time I got there, they actually had tried to cancel the whole thing... DH was upset that I didn't bring the baby because THEY WANT TO SEE THE BABY! So, I asked him WHO is making such a big deal about the baby being there? HIS MOM of course. I told him that first of all, the baby is not really related to anyone... he's a step-great great grandson at best. I doubt they really want to spend the night fawning over him as much as MIL wanted to see if I let SD play with him at HER house. Secondly, he wants the attention of the room. When people are talking, he tries to get in on it & gets noisy. I asked hi do we really want the evening to be about DGS or DH's grandparents & Aunt? So, since SD is having trouble in school (all F's & D's), I had her bring her homework. She took it out & MIL spent the entire time (along with MIL's sister) helping SD with her homework... focusing the entire evening on SD. I think that's the way it should be... SD is their granddaughter & SHE is the one that needs attention & help, not DGS ~ who would have demanded the attention & SD would have been ignored. MIL hardly said two words to me.. trying to remain pleasant for show but she was probably pissed at me. Oh well, I told DH that after what MIL did at the luau & the way she has been on me about SD playing with the baby, I am not putting the baby in the middle of that mess. He was sleeping at home anyways.

Thanks ladies. After sleeping on it, and reading some of your thoughts, I think I will *let it go* for now. If more comes up, then I will say something to the mom. The party issue---oh my, I would NEVER bring that up--but that is bothering ME big time. See, in my DD's class, everyone has parties for the WHOLE class, since it's such a small group. The only time that kids don't is if they have a girls-only or boys-only party. But two of the moms I saw RSVPing on the page were a mom of either sex---so this party obviously wasn't just a handful of girls. UGH. I just cannot believe she would really exclude DD as the only one. Wow. If that's really true...just wow. When I was growing up, for THAT reason, my mom made me either a) invite the whole class or b) just the girls. I never pick and chose and that is something I've carried over to my own kids. And like I said, since there are only 14 in DD's class, everyone else seems to do the same--every party DD's been to has been the whole class, save for a few girls-only parties. I'm totally just VENTING here, too--I would never mention the party to the mom, no matter how badly it irritates me just b/c it's not *my place.* The comment...I will let go for now and see if anything more/further is said. It just saddens me because my DD is a sweet, kind-hearted, GOOD girl, and this is the first *encounter* I've had with anyone who may think otherwise. Of course, she is not perfect, but she is really a great kid--teachers/other parents/friends of mine etc. ALWAYS comment on how kind and outgoing and friendly she is. I never thought I would hear the words "bad role model" used about her, especially in freaking third grade! It's more MY mommy feelings that are hurt at this point.

"Blaming the poor school results and poor quality of services to not collecting enough taxes is crazy." " In 2007, The New York Times reported the average property tax in California was .68 percent." No making such a statement from the wilds of NC is crazy. From folks that live there, the consensus is that Prop 13 is the victim of unintended consequences. California Schools went from among the best in the USA in the late 1970s to among the worst. The infrastructure went from one of the top rated to a situation that has become somewhat desperate. The fact of the matter is that 0.68% Property tax is unfair when the new purchaser pays 1.0% and the guy next door pays .34% for property identical in value. 1.0% is not an unreasonable tax rate for all to pay - higher in most areas - but 0.68% is not a reasonable base across all properties. You repeatedly apply your parochial experience in a Southrn State and generalize to apply it broad brush to rel estate practices, property taxes, weather impacts, etc, etc, etc. Read and learn from the folks above that have lived the actual experience. Denying the impact of a failure to collect adequate taxes on the quality schools shows a certain lack of knowledge of the real World. One of my favorite examples, and be careful this is a specific case. The Town of Lakehurst, NJ, in the 1980s was a very poor town. One nearly deserted Navy Base (Think Von Hindenburg Fire), lots of wooded and deserted farm lands, and a largely poor, minority population clustered in a "downtown" area. A huge Retirement Community (55+)called Leisure Knolls was constructed, including Single Family Detached, and high rise apartments. Pricey properties all and largely retired, wealthy owners. (Leisure is a developer with properties located all ovr the USA. NJ Schools are largely funded by Local Property Taxes, which is the case in many states. The problem in Lakehurst was the Tax Base was overwhelmingly comprised of older people that felt they had already paid for good (read expensive) schools while their Children were attending schools and darned if they'd pay for a ton of schooling for other people's children also. The tax base remained depressed, the schools got poorer and poorer. Finally the State of NJ stepped in and took over the Lakehurst Schools and funded them to higher minimum performance standard. My late parents were residents of Leisure Knoll. The same school situation existed in virtually every State in which I bought home. Shop around for jurisdictions that had seemingly good schools and inevitably you'd find a higher tax base - a meld of property values and tax rate. Essentially, locally you could group together and collect more taxes and fund better schools if so motivated. In both CA and Lakehurst in 1978 an later those jurisdictions acted to preclude this choice. In CA the Property Tax was mandated by Statewide Initiative. In Lakehurs the choice was precluded by annual voter mandate. Not blaming the poor school results and poor quality of services to not collecting enough taxes is crazy - particularly if basing that opinion on local NC experience.