I like the changes you want to make - and the colors.

if you want to keep your mstr bdrm in the back w/ mstr bath maybe push that closet on into the front corner bdrm more and use the linen closet space there also.
I didn't see measurements on the mstr bdrm

you could take that little corner by the hall from the closet of the inner front bdrm for a linen closet.

if you need more space, put linens for your room in your new mstr closet.

More closet space it always good. 10 by 13 is the size of my studio room and it is a good size. I like the gray and white. I do not have a clue on painting the brick to keep it still looking like brick. Some one tried that on a house we had and it did not turn out very well. They used paint. Maybe a stain might do it.

Thank you. Steph, I hate to push the master closet any further into that bedroom or it will be the same size it is now, which is too small. I don't want my children to be as cramped when they come home as I always was at my mil's. Our master bedroom size is about 11x15.

I thought I'd use masonry stain and dab it on like natural brick. I am afraid the reds will change to pink over time though.

The big question is whether the front door can be moved. That is such a squirrelly area with the roofline. But I figure if a beam can be used on a regular support wall, this could too.

When we moved into this house, the front room that sticks out was garage, so the living space of the house was 1400 and 75 sq ft was the entry. I never understood why the master closet was 15 sq ft and one of the other bedroom closet was 8 sq ft and 75 sq feet wasted on the entry.

I don't see why you couldn't change the entry...and it looks wonderful! I like the gable and the angle, which look like they belong with the house. In fact, I think it looks much better than what you have now :)

The kitchen being completely open to the den is a great idea and still leaves you a nice dining area. I know you've wanted to open your kitchen up, without seeing it as you first walk in the front door...and this plan accomplishes that, very well.

Can I ask how you use the formal living room? Is it for entertaining or watching TV? I only ask, because I was wondering if you could keep that the den, put the dining room in front of the fireplace and use the smaller space for something like a sunroom? You've said you'd like a bigger dining area, so it's just a thought...but of course, I don't know how you use all your spaces.

And the bigger bedroom and more closet space is going to be such a good investment. You're going to have so much more storage, after the remodel!

I thought about that. We don't use our living room as a formal room at all. In fact, I'd probably keep the tv in there because there's really no place to put a tv in the other room if we open up that wall and have all the seating facing the kitchen. I would put my game table in there though and that would double for informal dining. Then I don't think there would be any problem convincing dh to put a banquette in the new dining room. Pretty sneaky, eh? lol

LOL! Yes, very...I like the way you think :)

"Our master bedroom size is about 11x15"

oh, well, that's a good sized one to me! my new one is about 12 x 13 and I think it's a good size.

I think square works better with furniture, but I have no complaints about the size of this room.

Marti- What kind of banquette do you want to use in the dining room? How big is the space?

I like banquettes, because they're comfortable and give you lots of decorating options with all the fabrics on cushion and pillows :)

I have no idea. That is too far away to even dream about yet.

Glad to see you considering lots of options. It takes flipping stuff around a lot before the best solution can reveal itself. What LavLass is doing is sort of contagious, isn't it? hehehehe.....go for it, Marti.

We are looking at a product called dyebrick made in England. We have cold looking ugly white brick. Still mulling it over since it will be a big undertaking. I thought of another possibility when I looked at your plans. If you don't use the porch there, what about doing the door between the windows at the den? That would give you plenty of room to extend both bedrooms and make a big closet where the old entry was. Just an idea. Something like this:
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We had thought of that Mary, but we are at the end of the building line right there so couldn't even put a porch on it. Sure would be nice to combine the closet and entry space and have one big closet or even another room!

Looking at that drawing above, and seeing the two front bedrooms sort of makes me think.

How about the front LEFT bedroom having that entire row of closet for its own use.

And then for the next bedroom over, have a closet out of space taken from that huge entry way?

I'm also thinking that in your den, opposite the hallway with the red ink showing, make that a closet as well. You can never be too think or have too much storage space. You need storage in a den for games, maybe sports equipment, or seasonal clothing. By making the closet and the entry opposite each other, you could add a pair of french doors either there or at some point in that wall. I think it would be good to give the space some privacy.

And, Marti, somewhere you need your AWAY SPACE. You might choose the smallest bedroom which you are reserving for your kids' visits, but they won't be there all the time, and you really need to have a space for yourself. Doesn't your DH have HIS space?

No, we share all our space. If one of us really needs to be alone, we go in another room.

I think Marti's 'away space' might be the dining room banquette...a great place to curl up and read a book, sip a favorite beverage and enjoy the view of the garden :)

I posted this same thing on the Building Forum last night and was just too tired to post here too, so here is a copy/paste.

I have been looking at this from every angle, and I just can't find a way to make it work with any other door location.

So I'm back to leaving the door where it is, and adding roof over it so that blasted valley isn't throwing water onto everyone walking up the sidewalk.

Given the location of the door and the valley above, do you think a gabled porch would work there, something like this, either facing the street, or at an angle between the two wings of the house?
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Or just add a shed roof over the brick wing somewhat like this? This would be the easiest and least expensive option but I'm not sure it does anything for curb appeal.
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And see the first post in this thread for the way the house is right now.

So the goal (other than enlarging the two bedrooms and closet) is to add curb appeal and keep the water flow off the sidewalk.

The last mockup above is the one I like.
What I'd do is have a pergola or arbor to come in an L shape
across that end gable of the brick portion, and down the walk to the entry. Loosen up a little, have a different sort of flower bed but you will need some vertical interest which the pergola could give. Think about it a while. Meantime, I will see if I can find some good examples for you. Such an addition to your entry would really give LOTS of curb appeal to your house.

I called the city today and probably can't do that, unless it is not attached to the house. That wing is right on the building line.

I thought I liked the gable look, but the more I look at it, the more I think I like the 2nd too. Sure would be the easiest.

I like the second look better too. Not sure it stops the rain coming down that valley. I do not think the gable will either.

the only thing I can come up with is to change the path way up to the front door and see if you can avoid the down pour on the walk way.

Or maybe a rain chain into ?? some sort of basin and take advantage of the water fall.

It won't stop the rain through the valley but if the sidewalk is under roof it won't matter.

OOPS I missed the sidewalk would be UNDER the roof. Perfect. Still like the second look better. It is a cleaner look like is was always there.

Now for the hard part. Convincing dh. I'm making a power point presentation and plan on "selling" the porch extension as well as converting part of the den into an office.

The points I've included are the need for closet & storage space (that might be a little easier after a conversation we had last night about a pile of dh's stuff that he claims he can't find a place to put), need for bigger bedrooms for married kids, need for air-conditioned office space (currently dh's desk is in the garage in a space walled off with temporary walls that move when the wind blows), the need to have protection from the rain, and the need to make the kitchen more efficient.

Can you think of any persuasive arguments? My sales pitch is tomorrow night.

The need to make you happy, so he lives in a more calm and peaceful environment? LOL

Seriously, your points sound valid and I think you'll be convincing. What part of the office will be the den?

I mean, what part of the den will be the office? Time for a cup of tea :)

"Can you think of any persuasive arguments? My sales pitch is tomorrow night."

Well how about a great steak lots of wine pretty dress. Oh Wait you were talking remodel. No clue. I find I need to catch DH at the right moment to be persuasive. I think all your points are very valid.

LOL. Friday night baseball, hot dogs, Dr. Pepper. Mainly it will be Friday night and the work week will be over.

I'm dredging this up again because dh has decided he really doesn't want to enlarge the two front bedrooms OR add a shed porch roof over the den wing of the house.

Sooooo, now what? I'm still stuck on what to do to improve curb appeal, and probably more important, how to keep the floor of rain water from drenching everyone who walks under that valley.

Any ideas? Because I'm totally stumped.

Maybe I missed this...but is there anyway a nice gutter system would take care of the rain? Maybe channel the rain water to the ends of the house?

Also...do you need three bedrooms? Could you take out the closet wall, between the two bedrooms, making a larger bedroom, with bigger closet, on the wall to the entry? Maybe incorporate a bigger closet on the entry side as well? That might give you room for a bench as you enter, with a walk in closet in the bedroom and another in the entry.

I like the big den, but I'm still wondering if the dining room wouldn't work by the fireplace. Open the kitchen up to it and give it a country kitchen/dining feel. If you decide to enclose the patio, maybe make it into a little sunroom/screened porch area.

I think you'd use all your spaces a lot more and a big bedroom could also be a den/office/guest bedroom...much easier than two small ones. Maybe make your current den a big, beautiful living room, with nice TV and seating...that you could use every day. Just a few ideas :)

a possibility ...

WOW This is Gorgeous Summerfield.

What a beautiful plan and exterior! Summerfield does it, again :)

Wow! Thank you Summerfield! I love the extra closet in the hall too. I never would have thought of that. I had thought of the little gable over the porch but didn't know how to add it. Where does the water go when there is a more or less level valley?

I can't wait to show this to dh. Kind of apprehensive about it too though.

you're very welcome , marti8a ... thank you , and the others , for your kindness ...

please don't be reticent in sharing with your dh ... this plan simply adds walls and openings ... a very simple remodeling project that can be done in phases ...

to answer your question about where the water goes ... the roofer installs a v-shaped piece of sheet metal , called a cricket , to divert the flow to the front ... from there , it would spill into a gutter and downspout ...

i would highly recommend installing two gutters and downspouts to alleviate your current water problem .. the water that splashes onto your exterior walls will cause you problems , eventually ... so , that is a fairly inexpensive and necessary investment , for you ...

even if you are unable to make the interior renovations in the near future , you could improve the curb appeal of your home , inexpensively , and more immenitely ...

brick can be successfully painted , but it is labour-intensive , and painting brick makes a high-maintenance item out of a low-maintenance one ... your brick are attractive , already ...

if you could build "beefier" box columns , to replace the current ones , add shutters to all the front windows , and repaint the front gable and trim in more contrasting colours , you would add immediate appeal ... the colour of the front door in the "as is" photo seems very suitable for the door and shutters ... something a little greyer for the gable , and a darker colour for the trim , would look fantastic ...

good luck with it all :-) enjoy !

I'm such a coward. I pulled it up on my computer, handed it to dh, and left the room so he could study it before saying anything. He looked at it and first asked how I did it. When I told him that Summerfield did it, he was actually dumbstruck. He kept asking why a stranger would do that for us. Then he said how great it looked.

I had been playing with the paint colors, moving the sidewalk, and beefing the posts and rails, using a combination of Microsoft Paint & BH&G Picture Painter.
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When I first mentioned to dh about moving the sidewalk so it made a wide curve around the corner and avoided the waterfall area, he agreed. Then to visualize it better, I mowed the Asian Jasmine down to the ground in the shape of the curve and put some bricks along the sides so I could walk through it for a few days and see how it worked and how it looked from the street. When dh came home and saw it, he asked what I was doing. Me: The curved sidewalk we talked about. Him: We did? I don't remember talking about it, and I don't think it's necessary. Me: Argh!

What I like most about Summerfield's plan is the entry and the way it keeps the rest of the house private from visitors, and actually makes the traffic from den to living room flow better. Now dh looked at it and said it was too cramped right at the door, but I blocked off the door to the living room (which now I see I didn't even put in my drawing), and walked in and out of the front door as if I have a group of people coming in, and it works fine. Dh also said it looked weird, but I've been really studying it, which I am sure dh didn't, and it actually un-weirds the entry. It is an odd little entry, zig-zagging to go from den to living room. We could even take some of the entry and put it into the den closet.

And of course, opening the kitchen to the living room just sends my heart aflutter. I'm not sure how we get to the water heater though, and what happens to the cabinet in the corner. How would it be to square off the laundry room like in the plan, and then put just one pantry unit beside the water heater closet?

Summerfield is right, this would be easy to do in stages. Since we are planning on doing the dining room soon anyway (waiting on dh who is trying to figure out how to draw what the city wants), I think that would be the time to do the little gable over the front porch. Then we could re-roof the whole house, all the shingles would match, and would be in a color that would look better with new paint.

It's probably not the best time to be spending money on a house, with the stock market dropping, and needing to save for retirement. But, it's been planned for a long time, the slab is there, and we need it done, so we're going ahead with it.

Thanks again Summerfield. You have really done what I'd like to have here without tearing down everything that is there now.

We've been looking at Summerfield's exterior, and the ones I have done. Dh prefers a straight sidewalk, and I'll admit it does look better there. Also, if it comes down to it, I would much rather have the door to the living room moved and the open kitchen, so the sidewalk, and even the porch gable could be concessions to get those, though I think the porch gable adds just the flash needed to the front of the house.

But my question is this. If we put on the porch gable, how would you put a gutter downspout on the right side of the gable and make it inconspicuous?

marti - i'd ask a few roofer people about that. print out the pic here and take to a few. or maybe gutter people. not those IN it, those who design, sell and put them up...

I think it's looking so good. and love the changes summerfield made. just ease dh into it...

Great minds think alike! I have someone coming out to give me an estimate on gutters and I planned on asking him.

Gutter guy #1 came over today and said he wouldn't recommend putting the gable on - at least not the size it is drawn. Because, the porch roof now is a shed roof, fairly shallow, like a 3 and 12 pitch, and there wouldn't be enough drop to handle that much water and there is a fairly good chance of it backing up and getting under the shingles. His suggestion, if we wanted a gable there, is to make it a bigger gable so it began higher on the roof , which makes it tie into the part of the roof with a steeper pitch, giving the valley a steeper angle too. Or not do the gable at all.

To make the gable tie in higher on the roof would either make it a very steep and narrow gable, or a steep and much wider gable, which probably wouldn't look right either.

Now I need a 2nd opinion. Wish I knew a builder who could come look at it.

a simpler alternative ...

this should be relatively easy for any good carpenter to add to your existing roof ...

the gutters are normally sited at the eaves , and the downspouts at corners , or intersections ... i can draw the gutter plan , if your gutter man is unsure ... let me know ...

to answer your question about the placement of the pantry in front of the water heater closet ... the cabinet would be constructed with removable shelves and a removable back panel ... so that you can access the wh , when necessary ...

hope this helps ...

Oh Marti, I like that! What a beautiful home and it doesn't look like it would be difficult to add that entry on to your house.

Summerfield- That's really pretty and I like the colors, too. My monitor is always a little off, but it looks like light gray (with a touch of sage green) siding, to me. I really like the wood trim, too :)

Thank you Summerfield! I've been looking at houses every time I am out, and there is a house down the street with almost exactly the roof design you drew the first time, so I don't know why it wouldn't work. The next time I see the people in the yard, I am going to ask if I can take some pictures of it. I could from the street anyway, but there are trees in the way.

The neighbor was out when I drove by this morning, so I stopped and talked to him. I asked him if they had had any problems with the valley when it rained and he said they had, but it was mainly with a window and they didn't know if the problem was because of the valley. I could see some signs of water overflowing the end of the valley even with gutter and stop on it.

So I went back later to take a picture and his wife said the problem was the window. That makes me feel better because I really love their house and that gable over the porch adds a lot to it's curb appeal. But with all the problems we have with that weird little roof connecting the main part of the house with the (converted garage) den, I don't want to take any chances with this side too.

Isn't this house gorgeous? And see, there is a big gable, the little gable over the front door, and then a shed roof. Their big gable section doesn't stick out like ours, but the look is similar. Their front door gable ridge begins at the same line as the shed roof too.

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WOW that is a Gorgeous house. Looks HUGE. I really like the roof lines. Would be a nightmare here with snow but it sure is pretty to look at.

Marti- I like the picture! That would be a great idea for your home. I saw that you showed red brick, back at the top of the post. Can you paint your brick red? Would you paint the siding the same color? I like it with the white trim :)

Shades- It would be a nightmare with snow! LOL

Oh, Summerfield, you are a delight.
It is such a pleasure having you share your "can do" attitude and expertise with us.

Rooflines can be such a problem to us untrained people who have no concept of the things you seem to just go pffffftttt and they disappear as problems. FANtastic.

Summerfield is right, painting the brick would be a pain. If I can make the house look better by painting the trim, gables and shutters, I'll just do that.

Marti- I couldn't remember what post you had this on...but I found this picture of a really pretty vent/hood, over a peninsula cooktop. Would this work in your remodel? It looks very country/cottage :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to vent/hood

Ooh, thanks LL. I like that one!