I think that times have changed faster that laws have. It used to be that moms wanted custody of their kids. Now more and more dads are stepping up after divorce and wanting to be a bigger part of their childs life. And sadly more moms than in the past are neglecting their motherly duties. In the past stay-at-home moms were a lot more common, so the dads had to pay more money upon divorce because it was not fair to expect a woman who had stayed home with kids for 10 or so years would be able to go get a job making enough to support her and the kids. In my parents day it was less likely for a woman to get a college degree before marriage and kids.

Now things have changed and hopefully eventually the laws will change to reflect the times. Even though I am a woman I find it unfair that many men are put through the ringer upon divorce while their ex's are able to live comfy off child support and no job!
I know that is not always the case, but I have seen it all too often.

I think some dads fight for custody to reduce or eliminate CS. And some lawyers say that also. I think when a man doesnt have much experience with childcare, the judges are going to be cautious. IMO.

I think in some instances, YES.

However, when I first filed for child support I was broke, no job and had no help at all. The court ruled that since ex had other children in the home with him (not proven to be his by the way) he got a hefty break on child support and he did not was not ordered to help with daycare costs.

Now that I make more money, it's okay. But then, that was hard.

kkny, don't you think there are also mother's that fight for custody because they don't want to pay child support? (I will certainly let you know if BM files for custody when she is served with papers to get child support because that is what we are expecting to happen.)

There are now plenty of options for father's to take parenting classes. Lots of men are coming home from work and doing a fair share of house duties (usually when the wife is also working). The courts are recognizing that men can parent as well (sometimes better) than some women. It may take a long time for the statistics to reflect the changing times, but just because more mothers have custody, does not mean they are good mothers. It may only mean that the father didn't want custody either. There are far too many children out there that have two parents that are not good.

In fact, it's becoming more common for courts to award a 50/50 arrangement if it's reasonably possible. In that case, there really is no need for support but the courts may award it to the lower wage earner to even things up a bit. I personally don't agree with it if you have equal times of parenting and share expenses (like medical bills, sports, school extras, etc.)

Misti, i think that when a couple splits up, the person that has been primary caretaker will continue to do that and keep the kids. If mom was SAHM or primarily responsible for the kids and dad worked, he is not likely to take custody, but have to pay for daycare so mom can now work. If both parents were very involved with the kids, it would be best to do a 50/50 shared custody plan. (it would depend on their work schedules I suppose) but when you have an unstable mom, then it's dad's obligation to step in and take custody if he is stable. That doesn't always happen or the kids have two unstable parents.. so it's really impossible to make a blanket statement about custody, visitation and support. It is something that should be decided on a case by case basis and even then, it can change over time. (the stable parent may become unstable or one moves away or gets remarried, etc.)

When DH divorced BM after she ran off with TOM, He agreed to 50/50 and CS was determined by the court and ended up with him paying her 114 a month even when DH had them 4 days a week. THEN when we went back to court to get full custody of the boys (After CPS got involved and had petitioned for a CHNA) it still took MONTHS, 20 Grand, countless witnesses, DHS testimony, and a PI for us to win our case..I've seen fathers rights stripped for much less! The kicker, when it was all said and done, she's only supposed to pay DH 94 a month for two boys and not cover any daycare or other costs. So yes, I say Mothers are let 'off the hook' alot easier than fathers are, in fact the whole time we were in trial I remember DH's lawyer saying even with all the found abuse reports if she promised to get treatment the odds of us getting custody would be slim. Luckily for us she didn't even attempt to comply with DHS's 'improvement' plans or 'therapy' sessions.

kkny - saying fathers want their children just so they don't have to pay support is just silly, it costs 3x more to have a child living with you than it does to pay CS. Alot of fathers actually love their children and would like to be an active participant in their childhood/rearing and want custody of them for that reason.

I said some, sieryn, not all. And beleive me, I know how expensive children are. But I do suspect some (not all) dads go for CS, especially if there are or will be other children in house, and dad plans on SM doing all the work. btw, i think this can cause a lot of frustation between sms and moms.

sieryn, you got that right. I wish we could support her on what he used to pay in support. It's more than twice as much, not to mention the time it takes. KKNY should know what is involved in taking care of a child, it would take a really stupidly vindictive stupid man to think that he's going to come out ahead financially by getting custody. (especially since I have yet to hear a story on this forum of a mother that paid sufficient support on time, all the time. I think it's rare.) Most of the custodial step mothers on here (myself included) are dealing with a BM that doesn't pay much if anything at all. Maybe I'm wrong, any of you ladies get support from the BM? Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

My husband fought hard for custody of his son. The funny thing is, he is not the biological father, but his name is on the birth certificate. That is one of the many reasons I fell in love with him. His ex was and still is emotionally abusing my stepson. Two summers ago the ex told their son that my husband was not his father and he was not to call him dad and he was not to tell him that he loves him. He was eight and has only know my husband as his father. He spend the entire summer calling my husband by his first name, not telling him that he loved him and refusing to go on visits. Talk about messing with a kid's head. She still doesn't think she did anything wrong, but the judge thinks she did. The judge gave physical custody to my husband with joint legal custody although my husband has the final say in all matters according to the court order. She pays child support although it's not much and she had to be garnished. The Guardian Ad Litem is also garnishing her because she didn't pay the court ordered fees. I'm still amazed at how my husband and his son interact. They are so close. As a side note, the ex doesn't believe her son needs counseling. He's a good kid, but is having some small behavior problems which have recently developed (up until recently, he had been doing a great job telling everybody what they wanted to hear as to keep things calm). She says he has handled everything just fine. It has taken the court order to get him into counseling, but he's there finally.

I know more and more dads who have "custody" of their children than years ago.

Guess it is now who says they want the children gets the children. BM never asked for custody and they go back to court every 3 to 6 months to modify either support or visitation.... she wants it lowered needs to change the days whatever ...

First CS order was $160 a week (she did not pay)
Second CS order was $249 a week (she did not pay)
Third CS order was $312.50 a week (she did not pay)

When it was almost $10,000 she started paying was ordered to pay $400 a week to get back support down to a nominal amount. She paid a few times .... back to court they go.

Hubby asks for the state to take it from her pay check DOR now takes CS directly from her employer.

Back to court again support was lowered to $160 + $40 a week ... it gets deposited every week now that DOR chased her down and takes it from her.

They just went back to court in Oct. lowered again. She's been laid off since June 1st, 07.

Hubby now gets $40 a week per child. back support included.

She refuses to pay anything extra because she pays support. Sent hubby the bill for vacation week (next week). She is CO'd to have them February vacation week every year. She put them in daycare and sent him the bill. $240 for the week. The prior week she signed them up for after school activities. $120 So in the last 3 weeks she has spent $360 of the $480 he gets a month in support.

HOLD UP. She has them for visitation per CO, elects to put them in outside the norm care and expects dad to pay for it? You are joking, right?

No I am not ...told hubby she could have paid me to watch them. He dropped off the money tonight for it. Dumb I know, but he didn't want to disappoint the kids she already told them they were going and they were excited about going. :(

Hubby said April vacation week they will go and he will send her the bill knowing she won't pay it but he will send it anyhow.

By 8pm tonight (first night of CO'd visitation) all 3 had called wanting to come home ... so I hope he didn't waste his money paying for daycare they won't attend.

"Why also if the parents have joint custody, why does one parent, usually father, have to pay the other parent?"

In the state I reside, if there is 50/50 custody and one parent makes more money than the other, then the parent making more money must pay child support to the other parent who makes less money. The reasoning is that the child should not have to suffer (financially speaking) while living at the parent's home that makes less money. It doesn't matter that the child is at both homes for an equal amount of time.

"So is there really joint custody like 50/50 when neither parent is ordered to pay?"

Yes, but only if both parents make substantially the same amount.

Also in my state, if there are two children and the father has custody of one child, and the mother has custody of the other, their incomes would be compared and the one who makes more money would then have to pay child support to the one who makes less.