this sounds very dangerous at any age especially at age 8. it sounds like BM lost her mind. yes, i would tell the other parent that this is way too dangerous and should not be done. i am not sure if you can stop the other parent though, unless you report it somewhere.

on the other hand.. my exDH is extreme risk taking guy, he jumps of airplane, flies small airplanes (has a lisence), deep sea diving, flying paragliders, sailing huge yachts etc. He is trained to do all that stuff and also has instructor's lisence for all jumping and flying and sailing stuff. One year he let DD to do paragliding and it did look extremelly scary on a picture. I don't remember how old she was, teenager. She wasn't by herself though, but on two- people paraglider with instructor. I called X and said (we are on friendly terms) that he is going to give me heart attack making her fly. she did not fly anymore or maybe they just kept it in secret...? Hmmm. She goes sailing with him but no other dangerous activities. But all of that is not the same as cardboarding behind a truck wiht a young child.

I absolutelly would say something and I think your DH should say something, nicely not accusatory but just letting her know that this is plain dangerous.

Though I do not have children at this point I can say that I would be upset with the senerio. I understand that parents will alow their children to have different and maybe dangerous activities but to involve your child without your consent is not cool. Definitely say something to this parent before it happens again.

Ima,

When I was in high school in the 70's, I knew a boy who would do this, only he did it when the roads were icy and he would run behind a car, crouch down and grab ahold of the bumper and take a ride.

He did it to my Mom's car once, when she picked us up from school and we could hear something behind the car and my sister and I looked and said "oh look, there's "idiot" taking a ride with our car.

My Mom pulled over and got out of the car and you would have thought she was possessed by a demon, she was so upset with him. She didn't want to be responsible for unwittingly running over him.

In the case with your SD, her Mom must have lost her marbles to think this is any way to entertain her child. Of course what you described is very dangerous. It is also illegal and that is even before you get to the "child endangerment" part of the scenario.

Your DH should sit down with his daughter and make sure that this really happened and that she is not making it up. I can't recall how old your SD is, but I remember she is quite young.

If it really did happen, your DH should take steps to ensure his child is not endangered again.

Perhaps because of the type of work I have done (now & past) and being a mom, I have a sense about things. (I mean I can tell when someone is lying to me from tone of voice & body language because I've been trained in it) and when I picked up SD, the sense I got was that BM was acting 'strange'. She walked SD out to the car and waved to me with a smile (not her usual M.O. when last week, she delivered a text to DH that I am NOT allowed on her property!) and SD got in the car and wasn't her usual sullen self, but very talkative, so I was a little suspicious that BM wanted her to 'tell' about this (whether it really happened or not) just to see if we would react to it. We ignore most of the things that happen there but she knows that DH won't ignore a health & safety issue. In a way, I think she is trying to 'engage' him (DH) but he can't exactly ignore it if it really happened either. I believe it happened, only because BM does stupid things and I don't think SD would make it up. (when SD's younger sister was a baby, BM thought it was funny to cover her in hershey's chocolate syrup and video tape it which I thought was a little out of the ordinary, but this just seems dangerous) I don't think she would hurt her child intentionally (at least I hope not) but she doesn't seem to think normally.

I would send a letter legally also to your lawyer or hers . Describe the situation, the whole incident and tell her any such behaviour with her 8 year old involving dangerous things such as described will terminate her visitation rights due to Child endangerment. Make it legally known what she has done.
No contact with her is necessary. No verbal or text messages. Make it legal and enforce it right away. This is a very dangerous thing to do. whether is happened or not, yeah it probably is a way to get a rise out of you but using her child to do so is not funny.
By making it legally documented , you can also ask for substance abuse. And let her prove herself clean.

That's against the law. Did anyone else see her do this? I would take legal action. I would make sure SD is getting the experience accurate & then I'd freak out. That's extremely dangerous. Do some research on this & let him see pictures of chidren who have been killed that way. I'm sure there are newspaper stories. He doesn't want to upset the BM, but he's willing to do it at the cost of his daughters life. That's insane & it really pisses me off.

About a year ago on a snowy day a dad tied an intertube to the back of his truck and was pulling his daughter around in the school parking lot. He swung wide, she sailed into a low brick wall and died within minutes. His involuntary manslauter case is set to go to trial soon I believe. 'Nough said.

It's one thing to ride a matress or piece of cardboard down the stairs (I did that as a kid.) Behind a motarized vehicle? Insane.

Find out from SD if anyone else was there who can be a credible(even if hostile) witness. Then chat with your attorney, and perhaps the police department. I would be willing to guess that is illegal and considered child indangerment.

Good God.

I have to agree with taking legal action. I can't even BEGIN to explain how pissed I am that someone would do that with their child! I mean, I may be slightly over-protective but I lost a child who had many many years left to live because of some dumb@ss stunt that someone pulled. Seriously Ima, take legal action. You and DH will feel better knowing that SD is safe and can't be harmed by an idiot who thinks it is funny.

Like JNM suggested, I'd call the cops first and ask a few questions, even if you know it's illegal, the police record conversations or at least take notes and can be called to testify if necessary. Keep detailed notes of who you spoke to, when you spoke to them, and their answers and let them know of the situation and ask for their advice. Calling as a concerned step-parent would not hurt especially given your profession, at least I wouldn't think it would. For good measure though, have hubby there with you preferably both of you on speaker with them.

My gosh girl, that's insane. Lucky for her she's not my SK's BM, I'd have her UNDER the county jail right about now. I'm not so nice and that's child endangerment in ANY state in the US.

iamommy, did you do anything about it already? let us know.

DH is going to send her an email. He wants to know if BM has an explanation. If she denies it, he's calling the authorities. SD told him that, yes it happened and then asked him if he was going to tell the judge. My gut tells me she's being coached and BM wants us to make a big deal about it. SD never mentions the judge or court so that's unusual. If she is playing a game with DH and using her daughter like that, it's a new low.

Hi BM,

SD tells me that this weekend, she had a lot of fun at the snow. I'm having a concern because she tells me that she rode on a cardboard box that was tied to the back of a truck. I'm very concerned because what she describes sounded a lot like mattress surfing and I've heard stories of people being killed or severely injured doing that. I'd appreciate it if you would clarify what exactly happened.

Thank you,

DH

Hey DH,

First of all do u really think I would do that with my 8 year old daughter. A few weeks ago we went to the snow and she slid down hills with a piece of cardboard. C'mon give me a little credit for having half a brain. BF nor I would ever
do anything to jeapordize our daughters physical as well as emotional well being. She probably saw it on the tv or something at your house. Any other questions feel free to contact me.

BM

so do you think she is saying the truth and lying? is it possible that SD made up just the way kids make stuff up? just wonder. what's DH's next step? maybe SD can talk to a counselor about it.

Good point FD, even good kids make things up. Many times I call X, and say DD said this, not this happened. It is always important to seperate what you know from what you get second hand. Like when kids say everyone at school is doing this, and you say Oh really.

We did this as teenagers... usually with old broken couches, not mattresses, but we had a HUGE open field (no walls) and used loooooong ropes.
As bizarre as this sounds, we were really responsible with it: long ropes, ski goggles, a spotter or two, usually helmets and knee pads etc, and NO DRINKING (not just the driver, but the surfers and spotters as well)

Would I ever let a kid in my care do it? Not a chance... Would I be mad if a fairly responsible teenager was doing it the way we did? Not really.

I'd be choked if A__'s mom ever did that with him (but I really doubt she ever would)

I really don't know why SD would say this out of the blue. Anything is possible, but BM has a history of lying and she always deflects the blame back on DH, like the way she said "She probably saw it on the tv or something at your house". But, she also lied about the ice cream incident a few months ago and tried to convince SD to change her story to include that she had cereal for breakfast. After a phone call where SD kept saying 'no I didn't', when she got off the phone, she told me that she ate the ice cream after she ate cereal. I wasn't monitoring the call but SD had always walked around with the phone when she talked so I could hear some of the things she said sometimes. After that, she has always gone into her bedroom and closed the door for her calls. BM would rather have us believe SD is a liar, which is pathetic. DH said that he hoped BM would give a realistic explanation because we both believe it happened. He hoped she would say something like, "yeah we were playing in the snow and tried it but I took every precaution and wouldn't let anything happen to SD." or something to reassure him it won't happen again. Instead, he gets the same denials he always gets and whether she is being honest NOW, he isn't reassured that nothing happened and his only option is to believe her or his daughter. Who would you believe?

I know kids make things up but this is a serious thing to make up and to have details of exactly how it was done is a little unusual. She didn't see this on TV at our house, she doesn't watch much TV, she usually watches DVD. I haven't seen the movie 'jackass 2' but BM let SD watch that last year. (She later denied it saying SD only watched the trailer for it, but SD pretty much described more than what is in the trailer and insisted that she watched it at her mom's friends' house) Even if she saw it in that or on tv, why would she start telling me that this happened almost immediately after she got in the car when I picked her up? DH wasn't with me since he had to work Monday. The whole situation is unusual, but BM is a pathological liar and it bothers me a lot that when she gets caught up in a lie, she would throw her daughter into the fire and want us to think the daughter is lying.

I'd bet money that your SD comes home with a different attitude next weekend ... she will not say anything to you or hubby about her weekend...

She will be ________(insert emotion) to say anything to you because BM is going to have an issue with it.

Hubby needs to sit SD down and say I am not sure what happend last weekend but mom says you saw it on tv and didn't actually do it... but I am going to believe that it happend and thats makes me ________(insert emotion) for your safety at mom's house ... I don't think mom would do anything to hurt you on purpose but accidents happen ALL THE TIME. And I wouldn't want a phone call from mom saying you were hurt because you doing something dangerous.

Have him explain all the things that could go wrong with that kind of "fun" ... broken bones, broken teeth, road rash, bruises etc.

Like someone said ... a low wall, a tree, anything could get in the way ... NO ONE can predict what a car will do on the snow what way it will go if it is sliding you can guess but you cannot know with certainty.

We live on an island only 150 people on the island year round so when the "summer people" show up my SC forget. My SC would just ride their bikes across the main road, think nothing of it or just go riding out of the yard not looking to see if a car is coming or not, oblivious to traffic not realizing its the only way on or off the island people are not looking out for kids ... my worst fear one of them getting hit by a car ... even though they wear helmets. They were home with me all day ... I kept stressing a phone call I do not want to make is calling their parents and telling them to meet me at the hospital with their child who was hit by a car because they didn't stop at the end of the driveway or stop before crossing the main road. I spend the first few weeks of warm weather reminding them to watch out for cars they are not watching out for you.

Whether it happend or not ...not really the issue, daughter says it did mom says it didn't either way hubby and you need to stress to daughter that it is dangerous no matter how much fun it seems ...

What if the neighbor kids are doing it ... and they actually let her "try" with out mom knowing of course because she wouldn't jeopardize her daughter's physical safety...your SD needs to know its too dangerous for her to be doing with or without "parental" supervision.

Thanks Cawfe, DH doesn't usually talk to SD about what BM says to him (he sees that as putting SD in the middle) so SD only knows what her mom says to her, which is probably why she gets an attitude with us when her mom tells her what to say, do or think. But, the way you worded that really sounds acceptable and not putting SD in the middle at all. (She's really in the middle anyways because her mom lies to us and then puts SD in a position to take the blame for her lies, and SD knows when her mom is lying to us so when DH ignores BM's lies, there is a tension and SD will give up and take the blame to protect her mom.)

One of the things I worry about, is that SD will grow up to be a pathological liar like her mom. I don't know what causes someone to lie like that because I have always thought lying was one of the worst things you could do and I had a fear of being caught and branded a 'liar' so I've always been fairly honest (nobody is perfect..)

In situations where we have conflicting stories from SD and BM we have said something along the lines of "You know SD, it really worried me the other day when you said you were being pulled in the snow. That is very dangerous and I'm afraid your mom doesn't realize that. I'm going to talk to her about it so that I know you are safe." If what SD was saying is untrue it's pretty easy to tell.

BM used to do the same thing if we would ask her about something SD said happened or that she saw - spin it around to be something that happened here. Some people just can never admit their mistakes. Sometimes I think they honestly believe their own lies.

I don't know how to word this with out sounding extremely bitter. But here goes:

We tend to believe the children we just "assume" mom is lying/covering up, if there are conflicting versions of a story we go with what the kids said rather than with the "reasonable" explanation mom gives.

Sometimes people's anger/fear overwhelms them and they do not realize what they are saying and who they are saying it to..... yes taking the high road is the best approach but there are sometimes when taking the high road must be detoured.

I am not saying tell the child the other parent is "lying" but children have many many questions if they are only getting one side of a story and that side is completely false you need to "defend" yourself with out accusing the other parent of being a liar.

When the kids say things like ... mommy said you have to take us to the store and buy us whatever we want because mommy pays support. Mommy said you need to buy us an xbox360 because she pays support. Hubby's response ... if I buy you whatever you "want" who is going to buy everything you "need"? Hubby asked her and she said ... No I told them I pay support to "help out with what they need I never told them it was for stuff like that"... hubby said why are you telling them you pay support in the first place?

Or when the children say things like mommy can't do this or do that because she pays support... we say do we tell you we cannot do this or that because daddy didn't get the support? Mommy should not be telling you about child support.

We live in a town...with less than 15000 people... the 10 yr old is going to middle school next year he is fearful same as every other kid about to enter middle school... instead of mom calming his fears she tells him ... well you can come and live with me and go to middle school hear ... she lives in one of the bigger cities (150,000 people) So he told us mom said that in September he was going to live with her... mentioned it many times ... she called hubby saying how come 10 wants to live with me whats going on over there? hubby told her you told him he could go to middle school near you ... her response No I did not ... I don't even know if I will be living here after this summer.

Or when SC overhear mom on the phone ... talking about whatever(her bills, paying support, losing her job, going to jail, being hospitalized, etc.) and come home concerned... We say if an adult is saying stuff you know you should not be hearing you need to stand in front of that adult and say I am just a kid do not talk about that stuff when I am around. Politely ask that adult to talk away from you, if the adult will not stop you walk away.

We try to empower them to know the difference between right and wrong. Mom is under a CO not to discuss any part of the litigation process with the children. She has let them read hubby's statement to the judge and the judgement.

At dinner last night, SD started telling us again what happened. When DH said, 'honey, I talked to your mom and she says it didn't happen.', SD said 'she did?' and looked confused. Then she got really quiet for a few seconds and said 'maybe I dreamed it.' and looked pretty upset. Then DH told her that we do believe that it happened and he worries about her getting hurt. He told her that he doesn't want to get a phone call that she's hurt or worse. She changed the subject to her upcoming birthday party and we dropped the subject. I don't think it was said as well as cawfe's version, but we let her know that we believe her and I did tell her that maybe her mom just thinks DH will get mad about it and he isn't mad, he's just worried about her safety.

BM has been doing the same thing with SD, telling her that she is going to move with her next school year. She denies telling SD that, then demands that DH let SD go live with her. She's oblivious to the adjustment problems SD has had over the last six months. Now that she's doing well in school, has made friends, is settled, she wants to uproot her because 'she' wants.

and when it comes to BM vs. SD and the truth, I would tend to ALWAYS believe SD first. The reason is that BM has proven she is a liar. She lied about being on birth control when she conceived both of her daughters. She lied about her marital status when she met DH. (She claims to be divorced but it's STILL not final after 12 years). She made up a story that as soon as her divorce is final, she will get a $100k settlement because she was in an auto accident as a teenager and it's being held in trust and can't get it until she is divorced. (which makes absolutely no sense, that if you have that kind of money available, why would anyone in their right mind not complete the divorce process but instead, go live with their mom in a two bedroom house with two kids?) When she lived with DH, she bought a CZ ring on QVC and went around telling everyone that DH proposed to her and that they were getting married. He has never asked her to marry him. She told us that the new BF's house was 6 bedrooms, turned out to be 1. She told us that new BF owned his own business and was successful, turns out he became a partner in an existing business the month she met him and had to take a paper route in January. She told us that she was taking her other daughter to move with her, she didn't. She told DH in November, that she was getting married in December. She didn't, she is still married to DH#1.

The excuses she has used to be late/early to get SD: She is snowed in. It was a lie. She had a doctor appointment. If it were true, she could schedule it better, but I believe it was a lie. SD had a doctor appointment. It was a lie. She had to work late. She has a job? She told DH that she got a job at UPS. SD went there for ten days at Christmas and BM told her that UPS gave her three weeks off. Must be some sort of new employee benefit. She also got three weeks off for Valentines Day. Hmmm, maybe I should go work for UPS.

She told DH that she didn't have sex with her BF in front of SD, even though SD described what she saw. She told DH that she has never left her kids home alone, even though SD says she's stayed home alone several times. She told DH that she supervises SD when she's cooking but SD said her mom was still in bed with BF. She has denied letting SD watch many R rated movies that SD knows all the details from.

When you are dealing with a true pathological liar, then it's hard to get the truth because she really does believe her lies. Her ex husband wrote in his declaration to the court during their divorce, that when they were living together, she told him she had a drug problem (cocaine) with an ex BF of hers, but she of course denied it. She did admit however, that she was arrested when she was 18 at the Mexico border by federal agents because the RV she was in had over 100 lbs of marijuana in it. She said it wasn't hers and was given immunity if she testified against her companions. (which included the same BF she told her DH that she had the drug problem with). HMMMMM