Oh, by-the-way, we have 10' ceilings, too...

Well the only thought right now is .....

..Pictures Please.
It sounds wonderful , can't wait to see it.
Seriously, pics would help to see your kitchen, and understand what you are dealing with. I love renovations, you will have so much fun and great satisfaction.
Congratulations.

I have a digital camera, but haven't posted pictures here before: is there any trick to it? Do I need to use Flickr, or some other service?

Sounds intriguing! If I were you I'd plot out the space first - showing any windows/doors or other openings into the kitchen so you see what space you have to work with (I am assuming you aren't planning to move those things - if you are, you'll have a lot more flexibility). Also, you'll need to decide if you are going to stay period or not and what pieces (if any) of the current kitchen you'd like to keep (that sink sounds cool, as does the pantry). What might help you is if you collect magazine photos or refer to internet sites that show styles you like.

Yes, you need to get them on Flickr or Photobucket. Its free on photobucket.
1. Set up your account
2. Download your pictures
3. Select pictures you want to post by checking the appropriate box
4. Convert to html and then paste into body of your post (there is a place a bottom of page that asks you to do this)
5. It then directs you to another page which asks you what format to use. I pick either the 1st or 2nd option. It automatically copies for you.
6. Then paste when you are done with your post on this forum. Paste it right in the body of post.

go to the bookstore and read some books about doing kitchens in older homes, and staying true to those homes.

it sounds like your kitchen is beautiful and has retained quite a lot of its vintage charm. the last thing you'll want to do is change it around and lose that.

jane powell has written a number of books, including 'bungalow kitchens' which is excellent. you'll find lots of photos and ideas in that book. the kitchens are from a slightly different era than yours, but the differences are going to be more cosmetic than anything else.

there are lots of ways to stay true to your vintage feel and still get a working kitchen with modern amenities. check out some of the vintage appliance websites and you'll probably see some examples.

It's your house, and you have the right to live in it as you please.

But...

I'd urge you, BEG you, not to leap into a renovation. Once you gut original features they're gone forever. So approach it slowly.

The pantry sounds amazing! The counter/cabinet problems can be temporarily remedied with furniture solutions (non-fitted cupboards, tables, sideboards etc.) until you really think through a plan. Like maybe even a year or more.

(Of course, if something is really unsafe, fix it!)

You may find some things grow on you. I had a friend who lived in a house with pretty much a Victorian kitchen and original pantry (with scary/beautiful circa 1920 electric appliances disconnected!) and had no problems. He just moved in free-standing appliances, a big table, a Hoosier-tyoe cabinet, and walked into the larder when he wanted something (another cool room, with wood and marble shelves). The house even had a flower room off the garden, with sink and counter, fitted rack for scissors and knives, and glass-front cupboard for vases.

I think the world would be a sadder place if this had all been ripped out for some dippy person's "Tuscan Fantasy" kitchen that the next owner would rip out anyway.

And beware the polyurethane! It's nasty stuff. And unnecessary.

Try your local preservation society for a list of restoration experts. They might even want to come in and look at stuff.

And the Old Home type magazines. They often have "it's the original kitchen" features that show you how to live with your loveable "monster" yet still eat cooked food.

Just don't get talked into anything, or rush into it. You DO NOT have to make any changes you don't want to. Original features like this never hurt resale, IF you do a thoughtful restoration job. Slap poly over the pantry, replace the teak counters with granite, the vintage sink with Corian, and carve a hole in the floor for a giant island and it's another matter. I have seen old houses rendered unsellable (even through the hot years) by bad restoration.

Good luck!

We just bought an old Victorian house in Springfield, MA: It's a gorgeous house, but I swear that it has the original kitchen! It has NO counter tops or cabinets: everything is put into the pantry, which has an old wooden ice-box lined with marble! There is a 1930's Republic Steel double sink, and a recent Frigidaire gas oven ane refrigerator. The floors are old-wide-board pine which was painted red at one point, but has mostly worn off. The kitchen is a good size: 15.5' X 16'. It has so much charm that it's killing me! Anyone have any thoughts where I can begin on this monster?

I could have written this post about my own Victorian-era kitchen (though I'll trade you the icebox for my vintage range)! You've gotten great advice so far, especially Growlery's advice to go slow. I've been dealing with my bare-bones kitchen for six months now since we moved in and am rethinking my first ideas about what HAD to go. I'm also finding out how I use what little I have in the way of storage and appliances, what the traffic patterns are, where the awkward/hot/cold spaces are in the room, where the light falls at different times of the day, and how much storage I truly need or want. I've become a kitchen-magazine junkie and find that the more traditional mags (House Beautiful, Traditional Home, This Old House) often feature updated kitchens that work in a historic home.

This is the fun part, the dreaming and imagining and "what if-ing." Don't be in a rush to change it - if you have a fridge, a burner and a sink, you can wait to renovate.

We gutted our 1880 kitchen. Had to, it was remodeled in 1960 by do-it-yourselfers. When our electrician looked at the wiring he said we were lucky our house didn't burn down because of how shotty the patches were into the old knob and tube wiring. Be careful and call in the experts before you decide to do anything!
ps: We'd all love to see pictures! Please post!

All that said to go slow are correct. We were in our house with a perfectly usuable but not great kitchen for 4 years before we started. I researched everywhere including garden web for a year before we had any work done. I am so glad as it turned out better for all that time spent.

The use of architectural salvage was my biggest interest. I was not able to do freestanding furniture. I do have the "flower/garden" room though adjacent to my kitchen and that is wonderful to have. I utilized antique soapstone sinks and old windows and antique hardware.
You will get lots of great advice here and design ideas also on Home Decorating when you are ready for that. Also Cottage Garden is a fantastic group when you are doing your outside...if you havne't done the landscaping.

Can hardly wait to see pics. Sounds wonderful. My pics are available on my page. We have an 1890 Bungalow. Caroline

Another go slow vote. Growlery's recommendation to use furniture solutions for countertops etc is great. I'd try and live with what you have for 1 year. Zeebee's thought about finding what you really use/don't use, traffic flows, etc is so true. And, yes, once it's gone...it's gone forever.

Here's another site to peruse...

Here is a link that might be useful: kennebunk's website

Tigerbangs,
I can't wait to see pictures; it sounds like you have so many interesting things to work with. I started with an 1858 house without a kitchen (original outside kitchen was gone & a small corner in the basement had been used for past 50 years) and made the double parlors into a kitchen/great room. We destroyed nothing in the process & have all the modern conveniences so, Yes, it can be done.

It's good to live in your house a while before starting renovation. There will be many original things that you won't see for a while & if you renovate too soon, they will be lost; don't count on anyone but yourself to save them.
Hester

I moved into an 1894 Victorian in 2005. We were sure we would renovate the kitchen almost immediately, but for one reason or another, we didn't. We are mid-remodel now. I'm glad we waited, although I wish we hadn't waited QUITE so long. It is a really good idea to live in a house for a while before you make any big changes.

It is hard to maintain the architectural integrity of a historic house, while adapting it for modern living, and you need to figure out what things should stay, and what things need to go so that you are happy in your home. That takes time and actually living in the house. For instance, I thought about removing the back stairs in our house to make more room in our narrow kitchen. I thought it was one original detail I didn't care about, but I'm so glad we did not do that. I use those stairs constantly, and I would really have missed them, and having a second set of stairs really has the right feel in a house of this vintage.

I wanted to preserve every original detail if I could, but some of those details were just too far gone. For instance, our house had the original tin ceiling and there was no way I was taking that out. Except that it was in terrible condition, had been painted over dozens of times so that you couldn't even see the details any more, had weird holes where various light fixtures had been affixed in the past, and it wouldn't work with the new footprint of the kitchen that we created by reconfiguring the kitchen. One blunt KD, when I said that I wanted to preserve the ceiling, said "but its not nice, its just old." It was true, so finally out it came.

I'm doing a pretty traditional kitchen in my house, but not a "Victorian" kitchen. Honestly, the kitchen served a very different function in this house when it was built than it will serve now. It was not made for eating in, it was not a gathering place. It was a utilitarian space, not meant to be attractive. It was cut off from the living areas, and was probably more in the realm of servants than of family.

It sounds like you have a wonderful kitchen, and if you can, I would consult with a really good KD or architecht before you do anything, but mostly I would live in the house for a while first.

I should also remind you that the materials in this kitchen have survived 100 years, and are probably superior to most things you can get today. Many people on this board are hoping they can get 15-20 years out of their cabinets.

Real plaster? Solid wood cabinets that have warped and settled as much as they're ever going to? Solid brass antique finish hard ware? Even weird little things that aren't useful for their original purpose, like gas fixtures, old doorbell hardware or servants call boxes are cool and can sometimes be repurposed.

Living with these things can give you new respect for them. Think twice before you replace old materials with new ones that might look a little nicer for a couple of years (like wallboard), but are ultimately inferior.

But yeah! Get scary wiring taken care of quick! And you'll probably want to look at the heating too ... and they do make storm windows that are less visible, if you need them. You don't have to be a martyr to a monument. It IS your home.

Enjoy!

OH! I want to see pictures too! Sounds like you have some REALLY cool stuff. I'm in the opposite situation my current kitchen (1885 farmhouse) is a bad 1980's "country kitchen" remodel that I'm painfully trying to restore to a late 19th/early 20th century look with custom pieces and antiques, but still have modern conveniences.

After living with your kitchen a while, you may find that with just a little tweeking you could get it just right and still keep it's charm.

Oh, enjoy...we have the original plans to our 1910 house and so we can see everything that's gone :(. The butler's pantry! The Jack and Jill staircase! it makes me want to cry.

However the lack of "tubs" (what they're called on the plans) for doing laundry by hand is OK by me...someone here said that old kitchens were the province of servants, not the family gathering for good times. That's true. YOu can have the best of the old and the new. Can't wait to see pictures. That floor sounds marvelous. And the pantry.

I came up with a few pictures of the house, but only one of the kitchen: I will try to take a few more pictures of the kitchen specifically. Thanks for all the advice!

Here is a link that might be useful: Pictures of the house

Oh, that's gorgeous.

Beautiful home! I love all the gingerbread detailing. Looks like you have a nice large kitchen, too!

Lovely house. Very charming. I would definitely live with the kitchen awhile before you make any big changes.

I would also hire a kitchen designer to help.

I LOVE it! The whole thing! Lucky you! Yes, please, go slow, slow. It seems like the main thing you need in the kitchen is workspace--counters. You already have storage and a place to eat. It'a already wonderful. I love the floors especially.

I've gotten some good advice here: perhaps the best advice I've gotten is to GO SLOW. We just took possession April 1, so we are still figuring things out. It's clear that kitchens in Victorian times were meant to do things differently than they are expected to do today. I wonder what I ought to do with that floor? Sand it and paint it again? Refinish it? Tile it?

I happen to love a painted floor, and you have traces of the original red, so that's cool. They make paint just for floors.

Black is another common color, or gray or green or a gray green if that's too dark.

It eventually gets scuffed, but that's beautiful too.

If you really can't stand that, you could have it refinished. But, as I mentioned, a forgiving, repairable surface is better than poly. That way you can spot repair with stain and wax and have a gorgeous floor for decades.

Then use rugs to protect areas that get a lot of wear, like in front of the sink and doorways and under chairs. Yes, you have to take care of pretty old things. You have responsibilities to past and future owners now!

I wouldn't cover a lovely wooden floor with tile. The mastic would ruin it. If you absolutely can't deal with a wooden floor in the kitchen (I understand: kids, pets, life, 100 other projects!), ask someone who knows that they're doing (preservation society!) for a surface that will offer the most protection for the floor, essentially sealing it off like Sleeping Beauty for the next owner. Don't let anyone glue anything to it, or punch too many holes in it.

There are a lot of cowboys in the floor-refinishing business. Be careful. Those old boards are only so thick, they can only take so many sandings, taking off 1/4 inch at a time, before there's nothing left.

Good luck!

Oh what a lovely house you have! And I adore your kitchen. Definately live in the kitchen for a while, it certainly is big enough, and maybe add a moveable island for some extra storage and counter space while you decide what to do. But in my opinion your kitchen looks FANTASTIC! I am thoroughly jealous! The wallpaper...wainscotting...corner cabinet....is that a gas light sconce above the table...I can't wait for more pictures! But I AM an old house nut, LOL!

As for the floors, I rented a U-sand, sanded my oak floors and put on 4 coats of Waterlox. It's a great look and wears very well in a kitchen. In your case you may have to do some paint stripping first so you don't have to sand as much. Otherwise, painting the floors would look nice too.

I love it! An exciting new adventure in restoration - I'm envious.

The kitchen floor doesn't look that bad in the picture; maybe just a paste waxing for protection & smoothness until you make the rest of your decisions. Rugs are a godsend! BTW, it's almost impossible to get all of the old paint off, IMO, unless you sand most of the floor away. Besides - it adds character. Also remember that lots of people pay extraordinary amounts of $ to have a floor like this - & yours is free. What kind of wood is it?

Is that a large hearth under the stove?

Keep the pictures coming!
Hester

We are FINALLY coming to the end of a gut remodel of our 1907 house's kitchen. Your kitchen is much nicer than ours was--I suspect that ours was "remuddled" at least twice.

I would like to echo what the other posters said about living with the kitchen for awhile before you decide how to remodel it. You can bring in temporary solutions--maybe a commercial-kitchen-style rolling island with storage underneath--while you learn the house's quirks, traffic patterns, etc.

Jane Powell's "Bungalow Kitchens" and this forum were invaluable. British magazines like "Ideal Home" and "25 Beautiful Homes" were also helpful--a lot of the homes they feature are older and had great ideas.

tigerbangs, just a little note, not all Victorian kitchens were strictly utilitarian some may have had "girls" come in to help out, but the lady of the house was the main cook with her daughters as helpers making the kitchen a more family type area, but still not for polite company. I read that to tell if that's the case, look at the decorating (if you have some original details) and if it's not quite as fancy as the "public" places but still nicely detailed then the lady of the house was probably in the kitchen often. I recall an ad that I found on the internet from 1890's for a cookstove and off to the side had a mother and daughter working together at a table in front of a window, I'll have to see if I can find it again....Oh here it is:
{{!gwi}}

That was the case in my house where I found PINK wallpaper with blue and yellow flowers and ribbon over the original plaster (under two layers of drywall?!?). I figured as much, after all it IS a farmhouse.

The separate pantry for food was mostly to keep the food away from the hot stove and thus cooler. That's still a good idea in the summer unless you have good AC. I actually like all the food (excluding spices and oils which I like to keep handy to the stove) in one location, makes finding and putting away stuff easier.

If you can get some closer pictures of the floor maybe you will get more ideas of what to do with it for now.

Hey how did you end up with my old kitchen

thought that was banished to the furthest corners of H@!!

It was built in 1901 or 1904 and we are the second owners

first kitchen was in the basement but the new modern one was done in 1951

with that came the metal sink base and sink which was the only storage in the kitchen

There was some counter space provided by the General Motors Hot water heater that was stuffed in the corner beside the chimney that was used for the old wood fired cookstove in the basement

still trying to figure out how it escaped the dumpster and got to massachusetts

It also occurred to me that the kitchen at Naulakha, Rudyard Kipling's house right outside Brattleboro, Vermont, might be an inspiration for you. They put all the 20th century bits in a 19th century shell.

It's not generally open for tours, but is rented out for weeks and weekends. They occasionally have events though, so it's worth asking.

It's an amazing place, and not far from you.

There's just one photo of a corner of the kitchen, second from the top on the right.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kipling's Vermont house

That's a terrific idea: Brattleboro is less than an hour from here, it sounds as if it's worth the trip!

OH HOW FUN!

Great! I'm glad you like the idea.

As a matter of fact, they have their stove sitting on a stone slab, just like you do!

Very nice people at the Trust. Give them a call. They also own other historic properties, and an orchard down the road.

And for anyone interested, the prices listed are for the WHOLE property, not just one room.

And the money goes not just for preservation, but also I believe, for education and performances of the "Just-So Stories" for local school children.

Enjoy!

We've just finished touring several victorian homes in Port Townsend WA and I want to ask you one little bitty favor.....

DON'T DESTROY IT!!!! Please...no tile!!!!! Gad no tile on that gorgeous floor. Paint it, stain it, do what you want, but please NO TILE!!!

We saw only abismal kitchens in all of the homes. All of them! Remuddled so badly (some of them) that we rejected the house immediately (Starret House was one of them...it was HORRIFIC!). The one that did make the final cut had a remodeled kitchen, used as a B&B but the bones were there and can be fixed (the same in the other home we're looking at in Duluth).

Learn about unfitted kitchens and embrace them in that gorgeous space you have. They can be functional if you plan well, and honestly, they're wonderful to look at and so period perfect. I personally will do a amoire type cabinet for the fridge, and use a Lacanche for the range option, but other than that, we'll go with unfitted for the majority of the room and do a lovely island on legs (continuing that unfitted look) as our work space.

Well, after listening to all the good advice, we have had to re-adjust our thinking about the kitchen. I was very worried about the wide-board pine floors, especially because it sags near the sink, which is probably the result of a major leak at one point. Fortunately, we have a local ReStore which has this same pine flooring that we have, and I think that we are going to repair the floor and paint it dark red to match the red in the wallpaper.

We DO need to replace the sink, because it won't accommodate a dishwasher, and it's not really very good looking or efficient. I suggested to my darling finance that we consider a soapstone sink, and she liked that idea. I would like to find a run of base cabinets that will fit such a sink and will also serve as some storage and will also work for the dishwasher.

We sort of like the idea of movable workspaces: we found a very nice butcher-block-top cabinet at a ReStore that could work for counter space, and we are also thinking about a center island that could be on wheels that would allow pot and pan storage and provide additional workspace. I'd be interested in your thoughts...

I have an almost 200-year-old house with the original wide pine boards in most areas.

Sag? They roll like the mighty Atlantic. And make almost as much noise as a flock of seagulls (the birds, not the band). But they are structurally sound. So I don't give it a second thought.

That word "unfitted" from igloochic is key, and the advice from Jane to look at British magazines and Web sites, where the look and furniture are more common, are very good advice. Fired Earth, Plain English Design, the Kitchen Dresser Company, Thomas & Thomas are among the companies that make free-standing kitchen furniture you can view online.

It's not necessarily Victorian in style, but it is definitely meant to be used by people who, like you, move into an essentially empty room labeled "kitchen", so it's worth looking at.

I'm not an island person, so I may be biased, but I think a nice oak table would be the thing for your kitchen. Some have a shelf underneath and can store pots. You can pick them up for not too much money, particularly if the dealer wants a huge table out of the store fast!
A big armoire can be a pantry or pot storage. Things don't have to be on wheels, but if the floor is soft pine, it's good to distribute the weight of table legs or armoire feet on padded blocks so they don't dent the floor.

Looking at a lot of magazines/Web site photos actually helps. And taking a stack of favorites and looking for a single thing like "how do they do X?" helps. Something as odd as "How did they get that stove to vent without going back through the wall? Could I live with that?" Sometimes seeing that someone else has accepted an odd solution gives you the courage to stick with one yourself.

Good luck. And do take your time. Your house has waited this long for you!

tigerbangs, I have a table-like island in my 1885 kitchen. A local woodworker made it and I topped it with marble. He started with a table frame and added sliding shelves and drawers on for two sides and a recessed panel on the other two sides. It is possible to move it, however it's WAY too heavy to practically do that. I do like the look better of a table with a couple of drawers and open shelves for storage, but I'm not really good with dusting (LOL) have two very active DDs, a dog and a cat. A table with shelves will be cheaper and you could try it out and see if dust is a problem. You can always change it out later. That's the great thing about unfitted kitchens you can move things around and change out pieces when needed.

Do you have a picture of the sink? With a little creativity you might be able to fit a DW under it. Might have to go with an 18" one, but that's better than nothing and buys you some time to find just the right sink.