Buildingnewfamily...Sounds like your X is trying to stop you from building a new family..How do you think your fiance is going to feel being excluded from the wedding? If her kids are under 18 and all children are excluded I can see that, but to hurt her, not right....Did you get to invite guests? Is your daughter paying for the wedding, or are you paying the cost? How does SHE feel about fiance coming? She is an adult if shes getting married, her mother shouldnt be calling the shots....You may be burning bridges at the beginning here, standing your ground if fiance not invited, not going to your own daughters wedding if she s not....Have been in this situation, married to Dad, not just engaged, I was invited to wedding, but treated like a non person, shunned and ignored thru rehearsal dinner and wedding, and I left without my husband before dinner even began...My husband understood why I left, and I understood why he had to stay, but it caused a rift with the SS that may never be healed..Neither of us has spoken to him almost a year after the wedding....Follow your heart, do you really want your fiance to start off your own marriage feeling hurt and rejected? I suggest talking to your daughter and DONT care one wit about Xs opinion...Your fiance belongs with you to share your happiness.....

First off, a few key questions:

- First, does your daughter have any valid reason for disliking your fiancee? Have they been cordial to one another when they've met? Has your fiancee gone the extra mile to be gracious and kind?

- Second, does your ex have any valid reason for disliking your Fiancee? Like you knowing her before your divorce was final, even if you two were not having an affair? (What she imagines is just as real to her as what really happened.)

- Third, would your fiancee's children be 'personally' hurt at not being invited? In other words, would they really want to be there because they genuinely care about your daughter as a person? Or is it really just a matter of etiquette and perhaps feeling slighted?

If you're paying for the wedding, (and even if you're not) your feelings should merit some consideration. And according to the etiquette books, since your SO is a fiancee, not just a girlfriend, she is supposed to be invited. But if your daughter, not just her mother really objects to it, then she needs to be adult enough about it to say so and explain why. And IMO, fear of upsetting her mother and having her mother cause an unpleasant scene is not a good enough reason. Mom's problems should be Mom's problems.

Bottom line, my feeling is that if you're paying for the wedding, and your daughter's reasons for excluding your fiancee are petty, then your daughter should 'suck it up' and not exclude her future stepmother. And IMO, you have the right to use a bit of financial leaverage to make it happen - though that will probably cost you some goodwill.

I think you have to gently talk to your daughter and find out more.

What role do you invision for your fiance? Sitting with you? Anything more?

And please, let us know who is paying, who your daughter has lived with etc.

And try to remember, this is your daughters wedding. While you may regard it as an opportunity to blend your family she may not.

Hi,

I'd definitely talk to your daughter alone about it and try to get her to see it's in the best interest of everyone long-term to not exclude your wife & stepkids.

I'm an adult SD with some bad experiences so I generally admit I have something of a natural bias to the SD's and BM's (which I try to put in perspective and not let determine my every opinion about this stepfamily stuff). But in this case ---at least at first blush, that is unless there's some major factor you're not telling us!--- I disapprove of BM's statements as a matter of principle. Feeling excluded is excruciating, no matter who's doing it or if you're an adult or child. Exclusion from a wedding is no way to promote any kind of family harmony, and yes it is very bridge-burning.

When you talk to your daughter, don't be harsh or act overly hurt or try to give her a guilt trip. And don't even assume she even KNOWS what BM said, so ask her first off: "Just want to double-check with you that me and wife and SK's are all invited to the Big Day..." And if she says no, ask her nicely why not or if there was something said or done to cause the exclusion that you weren't aware of. Listen to what she says and if there was something, don't minimize her feelings, even if you personally think it's picayune. You can say: "well, I'm awfully sorry you guys had a run-in. But let's all keep trying at this. Let's all celebrate your wonderful day together and have a great time. We ALL want to be there for you."

If your daughter is actually the one insisting on the exclusion and won't bend no matter what, that sucks and I'm sorry, but you'll have to attend the wedding solo. Maneouvers that attempt to force Dad to "choose" are NEVER COOL, no matter who's doing them, and compromises should be sought in all these situations. But this IS your daughter's wedding, and even if being forced to choose is really unfair, you still should go. There is, after all, no law that says anyone has to be joined at the hip with every member of their family at all moments. Maybe plan something really special for when you & wife and SK's are all are together right before or after the wedding day and let them know how sorry you are that your daughter insisted on things the way she did but it doesn't mean you "choose" her over them or even approve of her exclusion but as a father you had to be there for your daughter. And that you are there for *them* just as much for all the super-important things and as much as possible in your everyday lives. Your wife and kids really don't HAVE to be there... but boy it certainly would be so much nicer if they could be.

And if BM wants to exclude herself, that's her choice but no one's telling her to. At most weddings there is usually plenty of room to have a buffer zone of people, tables, conversation between ex-spouses at all times, and most people behave and have a great time, happy for the new couple. I'm sure everyone could all be there together no problem if everyone's willing.

Sorry, meant to say your "fiancee" instead of "wife"... Not that it makes a ton of difference in this particular scenario, only perhaps that there is a bit less of an imperative that she HAS to be there, technically speaking, and shifts the onus even more in the direction of YOU having to attend the wedding regardless of who else is coming. But since we're talking about feelings and exclusion is exclusion, the principle's basically the same.

I can't offer any advice on your situation but maybe my experience as the fianc in the same situation as yours will help.

I was to marry my husband a week after his daughter was married. We discussed our wedding date and decided to have it after hers, to let her have her day without any complications. I was not invited to her wedding and it didn't bother me, because I was just his fiancé at the time. I don't know how I would have felt if I had been his wife. I was very inexperienced regarding blended families, I didn't know that not being invited was a warning of things to come. When his first grandchild was born, he was called, he rushed down to the hospital to see the baby, watched as it was bathed and dressed, etc.. That did hurt me, I considered all of his grandkids as mine also.

I wrote a bio of my 33 years with my husband and I wish others could read it and know what lies ahead for them. It's not a warning to not get into the situation, just a notice to discuss things like this and future problems like loaning money to his kids, setting ground rules. Discuss these things ahead of time. If you can't discuss it before you marry, you're in trouble from day one.

Serenity gave you EXCELLENT advice.

Wow - first let me thank all of you for your advices. Let me first clarify a few things as I was going through the threads:

1 - My fiancee is very family oriented and has gone out of her way to bring us together as a family
2 - If my fiancee finds out that she and her kids were not invited, my fear is that she would feel rejected and possibly think it was her and call off our future so that I can be closer to my kids
3 - My kids seem to like my fiancee but have not gotten close to my fiancee's kids
4 - No, I did not have an affair with my fiancee before I divorced. I think my ex-wife still have not gotten over the divorce nor admits we had problems while we were married for 19 years. She has also stated that she doesn't ever want to meet my fiancee.
5 - Yes, I'm paying a large portion of the wedding but this is not a leverage that I care to use - it is not a financial exercise. To me, it is all about bringing together my old and new family as closely as possible. I desperately need this....

I've talked on the phone with my daughter and it appears she is being influenced by her mother. Up until last week, when my ex-wife said she did not want my fiancee or her kids at my daughters' bridal shower or wedding, my daughter had not said there was any problem with inviting my fiancee or her kids.

The only other thing that I did not relate was this past Thanksgiving, I did have a major issue with all of the kids where they finally came out and told me that I was not there when they were growing up. I tried to see them as much as possible (sometimes sneaking around to see them when their mother was at work) but I only had official visitation every three weeks. I financially supported them very well but I know there is no substitution for being there. We've gotten over this issue (I think) and am trying to re-build things since that occasion was the only time that the kids opened up like that to me. After that, I met with their Mom and talked to her for about 3 hours and told her about my fiancee and intentions.

At this point, I'm going to try to have another discussion with my daughter but, I'll wait a couple of days to see what else this thread of advice brings me. This is the first time that I've ever reached out like this and it's scary to be this open but at the same time nice to get other's inputs.

It sounds like you've been divorced a while. If your ex hasn't gotten over it, do you know why? Have you ever confronted the issue of how she feels or talked to her about it? My guess is that she doesn't want to meet your fiancee because it's easier to dislike a faceless person. It's easier to imagine what you want when you don't know them.

Have you ever told your ex that you will always love her? Not as a wife but as a friend. and that you thank her for the children you have together and that as the mother of your children, she will always have your love and respect. Regardless of the past, she deserves something more because she is the mother of your children. If you don't want to use the words love and respect, find the right words that work for you.

I don't know what type of relationship you've had with your ex but it's tough when you feel you have to sneak around to see your children. You might even tell her that you really appreciate all she's done in raising your kids and apologize for not being there. Even if you feel you were there as much as you could be, she may have felt slighted and those feelings transferred to the kids. I think the best way to bring harmony is to make amends with your ex. She feels the way she does and whether you agree with her or not, that her feelings are justified, you aren't going to bring peace until you at least acknowledge her feelings. Right now, your kids are in the middle because it sounds like they are loyal to their mom's feelings but also want to include you in their life (and your fiancee) but don't want to upset their mom. That's understandable, but if I were in your shoes, I'd see if you can make amends with the ex. Instead of trying to make your case to why you are right or you have moved on and telling her she should too, try to empathize with her feelings and validate her feelings. She may be worried that she spent all her life taking care of your children and now they are going to be included in a new step family.

If she feels you didn't do enough when they were growing up, I understand how it would feel. My son, who I raised alone for 18 years, just met his father for the first time and it was hard to think he's going to go be a part of this new family after all the years I struggled to raise him alone.

Hi,
I think we're going to have to presume a "worst case scenario" here for the sake of argument, to get at the roots of this dilemma, and clarify the issues. (But we can certainly hope for the best!)

Worst case scenario: Daughter tells you ---for whatever reason (BM interference or her own personal feelings)--- "no way", she won't consider inviting them and she wants only you there. Your decision now is whether or not you go solo. I feel very strongly that you should, and I'm going to explain why via responding to your list of concerns one by one:

"1 - My fiancee is very family oriented and has gone out of her way to bring us together as a family"

That's fantastic, and to me is evidence that this situation ---even in the worst case scenario--- will work out fine b/c if she's very family-oriented she will understand that you need to go to your daughter's wedding with or without her, as this is an extremely important day for her and b/c your kids have recently expressed their need for you to be there for all of them. I don't think I need to tell you that if you, as her father, were not present for her wedding, especially after the recent conversation about "being there" in general, that would definitely spell the end of that relationship at great loss to you and she. But it is not going to spell the end of what sounds like a great relationship with fiancee and kids if they don't go. It's the most important day of your daughter's life but one family function out of many to come with your fiancee and her kids.

"2 - If my fiancee finds out that she and her kids were not invited, my fear is that she would feel rejected and possibly think it was her and call off our future so that I can be closer to my kids."

Again, I really don't think that's going to happen, based on how family-oriented she is. And the way she feels about it can be somewhat modified by how you present it to her and what you do for her to ensure that even if she feels rejected *by your daughter* that she is not rejected by *you*. You might even be able to soften the blow of rejection altogether (i.e. "ex-wife's relatives are being crusty and old-fashioned about this and don't consider fiancee part of the 'family' until you're married...it's nothing personal", or "the guest list was made a long time ago and they can't change it" or "this wedding won't be the last chance we'll have to be together as a family and forge family bonds"). Yes, she'll probably still be able to detect that there's opposition to her being there behind whatever excuse you give, but then she has a choice: push it or not? A matter, for her, of picking battles. She's still relatively new in this situation and also would be well aware that if she pushes coming, she would be putting you in the same "middle" spot of having to choose that others may be attempting to do. She's most likely not going to want to do that, nor take the gamble that an ultimatum will fail. She'll probably decide to let this one roll off and do her best to form family bonds at future functions. And then you can further help the situation by encouraging/arranging plenty of those future family functions.

"3 - My kids seem to like my fiancee but have not gotten close to my fiancee's kids"

What are the age differences? Also, if they haven't seen each other but a few times, and never alone, they probably haven't had the chance to build bonds just yet. Especially because the blending of families is always an ambivalent thing and takes plenty of time. As I wrote above, this wedding will not be the only chance for the new family members to be together and grow closer.

"4 - No, I did not have an affair with my fiancee before I divorced. I think my ex-wife still have not gotten over the divorce nor admits we had problems while we were married for 19 years. She has also stated that she doesn't ever want to meet my fiancee."

Well, that is her issue to deal with. Hopefully she will be an adult and not continue to pressure her daughter to make an "either/or" choice which bio parent she wants at the wedding, thereby also setting the stage for others to possibly insist you make such a choice. Maybe BM will remove herself from the equation if she really can't handle co-existing at the same geographical location for the sake of her daughter's important rite of passage. But unfortunately we can't count on her rising to this level and certainly not her backing out. So you have to make a firm decision on what you will do regardless of what BM does.

5 - Yes, I'm paying a large portion of the wedding but this is not a leverage that I care to use - it is not a financial exercise. To me, it is all about bringing together my old and new family as closely as possible. I desperately need this....

I really hope your daughter and/or BM will be gracious adults and not exclude their soon-to-be-new family. But even if they refuse, this one event is not the last chance ever to bond, and is not insurmountable as a slight if you handle it well and make an effort to be as inclusive as possible in the future. Remember: your daughter's exclusionary behavior in this instance doesn't have to keep YOU from being all-inclusive. Hopefully, it might even encourage her to be more inclusive in the future, once she sees how welcoming you and fiancee are to her and those bonds continue to be formed over time.

Its not personal...that you cant be invited, the guest list was made a long time ago,Cant possibly squeeze in one more person, only the most important person in my life, my fiance .Well, yeah, it is personal.....The fiance has not treated her poorly, ex wife never let go, never wants to meet fiance, speaks volumes...Daughter HAS to stand up as an adult and let this poor woman attend..she has done nothing to be so shabbily treated....I also was not invited to bridal showers, was not sure if I would be invited to wedding as I have posted, but I did tell Dad he could go alone if I was not, I did not want him to miss the big day and he said he would not be attending if that was the case..Trust me , I didnt want to go to wedding, but put a brave face and treated anyone I came in contact graciously, but the indignity I suffered has not gone away or faded in my mind in the year since....We were sent an invitation to rehearsal dinner with brides parents RSVP number and return address )We paid for the whole thing)so it looked like they were the hosts, at the dinner groom furiously came up to me and asked why his mother was the only table not to get a bottle of wine on her table(She checked?????)This was recommended by the hostess as to not offend religious non drinking brides parents) they were at the same table....BM could have asked or ordered anything she wanted , gratis...Lets make a scene tho and blame me...At the church I was ushered into the basement to wait with my husband , apparently wasnt welcome to stand in the vestibule with the other good folks waiting to process into church..Husband had tux, no one called to tell me what to wear, no corsage(which etiquette wise is proper if any man in party is in tux not to mention I was SM...Many other things happened, but the final straw was being seated with sister in law who attacked me months prior while intoxicated(said I called her an Fng B***h(never happened)I could have managed to stay for dinner if seated with the lousy 8 guests we got to invite (out of 400)with their moral support, but they put 2 people in wheelchairs at our place so there was no room for us(so we would look heartless if we asked these people to change their seats as we would have , we did not want ot hurt their feelings or make them feel rejected)So I left , my husband didnt know I did, he stayed for an hour, then came home.....BM was the cause of ALL of this...She made SS think he was being disloyal to her, and he reacted in kind, what had been a decent relationship turned sour and may never be repaired..Yes, it is the bride and grooms special day, when you say you shouldnt force the dad to make a choice, he s not forcing , BM thru daughter is giving the ultimatum..Daughter should have the guts to say Dad and his partner are welcome, Mom we ll miss you if you decide not to come..Make it her CHOICE!!!!!!And take it from me, if you think making it up to the fiance will work I doubt it....The pain that this has caused me is indescribable, the blatant cruelty , crying as I remember all this and all because BM is not over the divorce......Good luck to you sir

Before you make any definitive decisions, I would strongly encourage you to get and read "Step Wars: Overcoming the Perils and Making Peace in Adult Stepfamilies." I would get several copies, actually, including one for your fiance; and one for your daughter. Someone else on this forum recommended it. I have had it for a long time & finally got around to reading it. I have recognized my circumstances in many of the situations detailed in the book. It can offer valuable insights into what your children may be experiencing; what you are experiencing and what your fiance is likely experiencing. Reading it before approaching your daughter again may help you formulate not only WHAT you want to communicate to her but also HOW you want to communicate.

I think I agree with both Dotz & Serenity. I agree with Serenity that what is going on with the exclusion of your fiance is not necessarily personal to her. It sounds as if your ex-wife remains in pain & distress from your divorce. I suspect your daughter does not want to do anything that would contribute to her mother's pain...hence the reluctance to invite your fiance to her wedding. I suspect your wife's feelings are not specific to your fiance --- she would feel this way about any woman with whom you would become involved --- and in this sense, the issue of whether your fiance is invited to your daughter's wedding is not personal...no one to whom you would be engaged would be welcome.

On the other hand, as Dotz so poignantly wrote, when you are on the receiving end of exclusionary and cruel behavior, it is difficult for the intellect to override the heart. You can tell yourself the behavior is not personal but it is still hurtful, especially when the behavior appears deliberate.

The authors of Step Wars offer many positive strategies for how to handle emotionally charged events. How you and your daughter and your fiance handle this significant occasion really can set the tone for how your stepfamily will function in the future. It is also true, as Serenity wrote, there are always opportunities for healing if this occasion does not go well. The capacity forgive one another is invaluable when operating within the intimate confines of a family. It is exponentially more crucial when operating within the complex emotional minefield of a stepfamily.

Good luck with navigating this difficult issue. Let us know how it goes.

You tap-danced a bit...

I asked if you knew you fiancee before your divorce and if therefore, your Ex may imagine you were having an affair with her.
You answered that you were not having an affair with her.
OK - I believe you.
But who cares what I believe?
What your Ex believe matters though.
And your tap-dancing and her subsequent behavior suggests to me that she thinks your fiancee is the other woman.
Is that the case Building?

Because if it is, you've got a more difficult situation than if it's not.

sweeby, OP was divorced for a long time, 8 years and as he says finally met somebody he wants to marry. It seems unrealstic to assume that he knew her while being married. I mean you think he knew her all this time and only last year his kids have met her?

And 8 years is A LONG time to get over past marriage. I can never understand why when life is so short, people are not willing to move on. I understand being angry he didn't help enough with the kids, but he can marry whoever he wants in 8 years. And if X suspects that he cheated 8 years ago, it is really her problem. TOW or not, it was too long ago to dwell on it. Maybe it is just me, but I don't have 100 years to get over past pains. Life is too short.

I think weddings are tough on divorced families. This is a mom who had responisiblity for kid(s) all but one weekend per month. It a heavy load, even with CS. Assuming the kids came out OK, I think OP should try and look at it through her eyes. Has he ever complimented her on the jobs she did with the kids? Sweeby is right, it doesnt matter what any of us think, it matters what she thinks. And frequently, when Dad has more money, and tries to use it as leverage, it turns everyone sour years later.

Based on what you've said, your ex is being unreasonable.

Does that actually matter? Your daughter is being put in an unfair situation; loyalty to her mother or loyalty to you.

It sounds like your fiancee and daughter have met and like each other ok but aren't necessarily close? not that there's necessarily conflict but your fiancee would be invited because she's your SO, not because of her own relationship to your daughter... ie it's not because she really wants to attend daughter's wedding, she just doesn't want to be excluded from your family event.

Now, to you, it is more important to include your fiancee than to avoid making your ex uncomfortable. But it is not your wedding. It may be extremely important to your daughter that her mother be happy and comfortable and able to enjoy her wedding. Especially since it sounds like her mom was her primary parental figure growing up, she is going to feel loyalty to her mom.

At some point, your ex and fiancee (someday wife) will need to be able to be in the same room with each other. There will be other weddings, granchildren's birthdays and baptisms and graduations or whatever. Your ex will have to come to to terms with the fact that you have someone new. But if she hasn't come to terms with it yet, is your daughter's wedding day really the time you want to choose to force it?

what a wise post, quirk. Wedding day might not be a good time to force it. You are right. I didn't see it this way. It made me think that maybe BM is resentful about the fact that she raised the kids by herself and maybe kids are resentful too. I know how OP feels, it is awful to feel rejected but who knows how kids and BM feel-rejected all these years? It is just one day, hopefully there will be other tiems to build a blended family.

My daughter is getting married in April.
I do not have any money at all,please help me.
Thank you.I am 68 years of age.