Hi. This is a difficult one. If this were my child I would be mortified to be told by SM that my daughter didn't want to spend so much time with me. I think this is one for the daughter to talk to her mom about or to your partner about and let him deal with any problems. I understand that her mom doesn't always seem to be spending the time she has with her daughter in the best way but unfortunately you have no say in this and it is her daughter so she can choose to spend this time the way she wants. Nobody is perfect and we can't always make the time we have with our kids quality time. I think your SD is too young to make a decision about the time she spends with her mom but she obviously has a right to make her feelings known. Perhaps your daughter should talk to her mom about it first and then your partner follow up with her to see what arrangements can be changed. Hope this is of some help.

It is common, as the kids get into their teens that visitation schedules change to accommodate the teens friends, a job or other obligations. If SD is going into high school ( don't know what grade that is in your area...here it is 9th grade ) then I think SD should speak to her mom herself. Mom may not like it at first but given a little time she may come to understand where DD is coming from. If she still resists then perhaps dad can talk to her also.

Even with your kids living at home and not having them go on a visitation they can get pretty busy in their high school years and spending quality time with them can be difficult. I have just started a date night with my DS16. Last night was our 2nd time. He brought his girl friend and the three of us went out to dinner.

My DS16 stopped visiting his dad over 3 years ago because all dad ever did was to pick him and sister up and sit them in front of the computer or tv for 6 hours every other Saturday. That is all the visitation dad wanted and he didn't want to do anything with the kids other than that. I told him that the he needed to invest in them more than that but did he care to? No... Now he thinks DS16 is a jerk because he doesn't have anything to do with him....I hope that biomom can listen with an open heart and mind so that their relationship can grow as the child does.

I cant remember everyone here, is the also the girl who is treated as unpaid babysitter/slave? That will color my response, so please refressh my memory.

kkny, yes it is.

If I'm not mistaken, she was also just excluded from a family vacation where her step dad's extended family was included.

Most of us mothers would be mortified if our child confided to a step parent that they wanted to spend less time with us, but this mother is now reaping what she has sown. From what I understand, and correct me if I'm mistaken JNM, the mother has alienated herself from her daughter for years and it keeps getting worse, no matter how much the daughter or anyone else tries to tell the mom how the daughter feels, the mother disregards what she hears and continues to treat her daughter like that.

In my opinion, SD should tell her mom she doesn't want to go on Thursdays but maybe have mom pick her up after school on Friday and bring her to school Monday morning. However, as she gets into high school, she will probably want to do that less and less anyways. Who wants to spend the weekend babysitting little sis when they have social engagements and friends they'd rather hang out with? It makes me sad to think her mom will probably be upset at losing her babysitter rather than being upset SD doesn't want to spend time with her... after all, mom doesn't really seem concerned about spending time with SD if she is working half the time SD is there and going on vacations with her 'family' but not taking SD. Just sad!

Yes, SD should be encouraged to talk to mom and explain HS schedule AND SD should be warned to expect little concern on moms part. But SD really has to say it. Then Dad can move forward on implemenentaiton. SD is getting to age where her feelings have to count -- and her needs should have always.

Wonder what would happen if SD wrote out on paper what she would like the new arrangement to look like so when she takes it to her mother she can present it in a way that BM knows that she has put a lot of time and thought into this and needs these things to make it easier for her.

I think it unusual for a child to communicate with a parent in writing for visitation issues, but this is a difficult situation. I worry that SD isnt going to get time for homework, sleep etc, and that mom will not to give up time with her becuz she needs babysitter. Dad has to really step up to the plate. SD should tell mom once that she, SD, has to cut down on visits so she, SD, can have a life. Then Dad has to back her up. Perhaps after SD talks to mom, Dad can email indicating what arrangement will be. SD has to be encouraged to talk to mom ONCE, and then the adults have to duke it out.

*scarcastically*

What my SO's DD used to do is highly effective. Here are the instructions to any child who doesn't want to go with their other parent:

Step 1: Be anywhere in the world but where you are supposed to be at the designated pickup time. That way the parent picking you up has to drive to the pre-designated place.

Step 2: When parent calls your cell phone, don't answer. This way you have plausible deniability.

Step 3: When parent calls the parent you are with, have that parent not answer their phone. This will cause the picking up parent to have to wait.

Step 4: Have the parent you are with call the picking up parent way later (and after you've done whatever it is you would've rather done than see the picking up parent) and say that you are all on your way home. Have the parent you are with say they are sorry they weren't there at the designated time and place but that the picking up parent can go over right now and pick you up.

Step 5: HURRY inside the house really, really fast! Take off the cool clothes you wore to wherever you were and throw on the oldest pair of PJs you can find. Mess up your hair! Lay down on the couch and pretend to be asleep.

Step 6: When picking up parent gets there, have parent you are with answer the door and say "shhhhhh.....she was asleep in the car so we brought her in and had her change clothes; you can take her in those PJs"

And the result of all of this hard work is......you don't have to go with the other parent because they feel bad waking you up and say they can just come in the morning. They ask for you to call them when you wake up.

Here's the important part: DON'T CALL! If you call, you'll end up going so make sure you don't call!

Actually.....in all seriousness....maybe your DH should just tell BM he would like to modify visitation since SD's schedule is getting busier. Have a plan already made up to present to her.

OH AND THE LAST AND MOST IMPORTANT STEP IS STEP 7!

Step 7: MOVE! Move with your CP 800+ miles away! And never answer your phone! And when you don't really want to see the other parent, ask your parent to lie to at least shorten the amount of time you must be gone. Because you must remember that if you stop visiting all together, the other parent might just file papers to MAKE you come. And you wouldn't want that. So you've gotta give the other parent just enough so he won't file those horrible papers!

Hi JNM, first of all SD is so lucky to have you in her life. It's so good how you truly want to do the right thing for SD, that in itself must be already such a good experience for SD!! No matter what the outcome of this.

It's a bit of a difficult one to form an opinion on. Did I understand correctly that BM lives 20 mins away and therefore SD can't socialise with friends on the weekend as much because of the 20 min drive?

We live 15 mins out of town and so we drive the skids to see their friends, it's just part of it. I can't expect the other parents to come out and pick the skids up for a playover so we will take them in. As others said it's important that skids can see their friends and socialise, but it seems that BM is not that keen to make an effort for her own daughter.

And in that light I think that it's ok for SD to spend less time with BM. If BM was doing the right thing by SD it would be a whole different story, but BM is not treating her own daughter well, and this is the result. SD does not have to suck it up and deal, she can have a say and maybe you guys need to help in explaining it to mum. I don't know how to approach that though. What did you have in mind in how to help her out with bringing this up with BM? Can you guys talk to her, or be there when SD does? How do you usually communicate?

JNM, your SD gets put in tough places for a 13yo... She is 13, right?

I like Nike's idea of making a schedule of what SD thinks her next year will look like. Tip: Does she (or you, or her dad) have a gmail account? The Google calendar feature would make it really easy to set up what she'd like.

I think that if she was to show, on paper, what her week would look like with the current visitation schedule -VS- what it would look like on a new schedule, SD might feel more confident and have a better leg to stand on with her mom.

IMO, you and DH should help SD prepare, but helping her make a schedule that might work, preparing her for how BM might argue it, etc... But SD should to talk to mom on her own, knowing you and DH will back her up.
...Because as a young teen, she knows her own mind and needs to be able to "stick up for herself". However, she only has the resources of a young teen and can't solve everything her own without help from supportive adults.
Oh, since her SF saw her side of things on childcare recently, maybe she should pick a time when he is present?

On the SF note, that's great that she stuck up for herself and her SF agreed! Good for her. I'm very proud of her. I wouldn't normally be proud of a teen for getting into a shouting match with their parent, but in this case I say "Bravo!" because SD is completely right.

I think it is great that sd stuck up for herself and her right to not be a second parent to her sibling! And I am glad that the sd stuck up for her rights.

What activities is your sd in? Maybe she can write up a schedule of practices, games, etc. next year and give it to her mom each few weeks. Then say I have practice till 9 that night so I don't want to drive all the way to your house to go to bed and get up earlier the next day. Or I have a game on Saturday and my friends and I have plans to go out after the game, so I just want to go to your house on Sunday.

Maybe bm will understand, maybe she won't. IF she does not understand sd's need for a social life then dh needs to step in and work out an arrangement with bm.

unfortunatelly plenty of kids/teenagers do not want to see the NCP as much or at all and it could be accommodated if there is a reason for that (like her having to babysit). It is not nice to do it the way ashley's SO's DD does: does not even answer the phone and makes dad guess what's going on. But I think at this point SD should be able to tell her mom that she is busy or tell her honestly that she does not want to babysit. If mom is angry, then dad should do the talking. I think it is up to the parent to build relationship wiht children. If they didn't do the job, they end wiht kids not wanting to see them. Sad, but that's what happens. I would be heart broken if DD would decide not to see either me or dad.

I agree that SD should discuss this with her mom. However, and I'm speaking from personal experience here, I wouldn't expect that Mom will give her wishes much consideration. But still, it's the right thing to do. And maybe her mom will be open, or at least listen. But if not, at least she will have tried (and you will have encouraged her) to do the right thing.

When SD started talking about wanting to come live with her dad & me, we did just that. In addition to encouraging her to really think about it, make a pro/con list, etc...we told her to discuss it with her mom.

Of course, this was in response to BM being incredibly angry with DH (and me, I imagine) over SS wanting to move here 4 years before that. We encouraged him to talk to Mom, too...but he couldn't/didn't. DH offered to talk to Mom for him, but he really "wanted" to do it himself. And I believe he wanted to...he just couldn't when push came to shove. So, Mom "was the last one to know", and felt like we were keeping secrets, etc.

So, when SD started talking about coming here, we told her "talk to your mom...she shouldn't be the last to know". And she tried. However, all her attempts were met with tears, "how could you do this to me?", guilt trips, etc. Which continued right up until the day we finally were in court...

The outcome was fine. The path to get there? Not so much. SD is here and doing marvelously. But the drama she was put through to simply have her voice heard, was completely unneccessary and exhausting.

I hope your SD has better luck with her mom than mine did. Be ready with a hug, an ear, and a soft spot for her to land.

on a side note:

it is so funny to me when I here 20 min drive... to get anywhere in my city you can depend on 20 min drive and more like a 45 min drive just to get from one side of town to another... we are a 30 min drive from the kids school

just noticing the differences... it is so odd to me :-)

but I am glad that sd stood up for herself especially after the vacation debacle. I think sd should approach mom first and then (I think as kk suggested) dad should take whatever steps necessary to support sd's decision. She is taking a mature look at things now. But, I do think that she and you (in the plural sense) should be open to working out a schedule that will allow more quality time with mom to substitute. Although frustrating beyond belief to encourage a relationship that doesnt seem nearly as important to BM as it seems to you and sd... mom daughter relationships are very important. Just get strict guidelines so things dont get fuzzy and confused in the future (provided they are even agreed to at the time) ... you never know when a mood may change.

"it is so funny to me when I here 20 min drive... to get anywhere in my city you can depend on 20 min drive and more like a 45 min drive just to get from one side of town to another... we are a 30 min drive from the kids school"

that made me laugh too. I live 10 minutes away from ANYTHING so everything is at least a 10 minute drive... well, SD's school is only 4 or 5 miles away but still 10 minutes on these rural winding roads.

What is funnier to me is that one of BM's excuses for not wanting to come get her daughter from school herself (but will send her 74 year old mother) is that she hates driving the canyon that goes from SD's school back to the highway that leads to where BM lives. It's okay for 74 year old grandma to drive it though... or us when we have to go pick up SD. Hey, what about YOU chose to move!!! Her other rationale? She says that when her mom picks up SD, then SD is in the car less time.... I guess grandma's car is a time machine. (sorry for the hijack but some of the way some of these mom's think... well, you just have to find a way to laugh at it.... or you'll drive yourself crazy!)

I think it's BS that JNM has to hear from her friends how much of a twit BM is being. Normally, it would be 'what happens at dads is none of our business' and in this case, what happens at dads is just out of your control, which is just frustrating since you have to hear about it from third parties. I hope your SD finds the strength to stand her ground with her mom and she's lucky to have you and your DH to support her.

You should not approach the BM. Depending on how BM is, I think the SD can discuss a modified schedule with her. If, however, the BM is very difficult, then I would consult an attorney and see about getting a modified visitation schedule through the court system.