Kimmy

I don't think it is radical to want to protect
and take care of "mother earth"...she has given
us soooo much, and we treat her shamelessly!!!

Linda

Kimmy - technically any diesel vehicle can run on vege oil; it was the original idea of Mr. Diesel (who invented the diesel engine) that his engines would ultimately run on oil and not fossil fuel. I have a 20 year old diesel mercedes and looked into it but the closest biodiesel station is an hour from here. Older diesel engines need converters but the newer ones don't, so if you have a newer diesel and can find biodiesel you can use it. I don't know how much the article you read talked about biodiesel but it's unconscionable to me that we aren't using it. You can convert used deep-fry oil from restaurants into fuel, which otherwise has to be collected, picked up and disposed of. There's a guy in San Diego who owns a restuarant who read about biodiesel and thought it was too good to be true. So he bought an old Mercedes for $3,000 for an experiment, got a converter for it, and started using the oil from his restaurants. Works fine - he drives around for free now.

California has not allowed sales of diesel cars for several years because they don't meet our rigid pollution standards, however, the 2006 models will have a modification on them that will meet our air standards so we'll start selling them here again. Once that happens I think diesel engines will catch on more because of increased milage, and biodiesel will catch on because we have so many tree-huggers in California. I work for government and have been pushing to make the state's diesel fleet run on biodiesel. We should be setting an example.

Littlechloe

I had to laugh at your descriptive phrase
"tree hugger"...my DS calls me one!!!

I only have one criteria for my art pieces,
they must use 'recycled' materials....other
than the grout and silicone, nothing is
bought new...the curbs, TS and GS have
plenty of 'art supplies' to last me my
lifetime...

But with the way we are draining the life
out of mother earth, how many lifetimes
will be left for future generations?

What legacy do we leave?

littlechloe and o'mom!!!

Yea!!! more people that agree!!!

As you can tell, I'm a farmer's daughter, and I know that if we would ditch those big, mean dirty old oil companies, we'd all be better off.
The demise of the train was initiated by companies that built trucks (and I bet the oil industry, too). They wanted to sell more trucks, so they bought up train companies and shut them down.
Disgrace!!!
And, with soybean or corn diesel, the farmers would have a market for their crop, cleaner, etc. we're not harvesting fossil fuels....
AHHHH, it would be soooo much better.
I'm ready to sign up! Quick!
and Good For YOU! LittleChloe...you make Arnold (and everybody else in gov.) listen to you! We'll all be better off for it!!!

Kimmy

WARNING - I can get on a soapbox on this topic!!

Even though we have the 4th largest refinery in the Western Hemisphere on the island...we all tend to conserve here. My friends from Europe tell how they have been recycling for many years and it has just been in the last 10 to 15 years that the US has started.
I wish we had more ability to recycle on the island but everything would have to be shipped off and that cost money. However, people here are definitely, hand me down, flea market, garage sale kind of people. Including me...we lived on lawn/beach chairs cuz I didn't want to pay the money for living room furniture cuz we spend so much time outside..until I bought a used set 5 or 6 years ago to tide us over until I could bring myself to spend the money LOL.
One of the natural resources that is EXTREMELY important us to conserve is water. Yep we are surrounded by it but can't drink it. We catch our water on our roofs (so when it rains we have lots of water but when it doesn't.....), have it drain to a cistern (like an underground swimming pool with a concrete cover that is under our houses) and pump it from there. Our cistern holds 60,000 gallons...if we ever run out (we never have yet) we would have to buy purified water by the truck load. We do NOT water our grass and DH once figured out that my BIL in MT uses enough water on his grass in one week to sustain us, using our water freely, for 6 months!! It drives me crazy when I go to the states when people leave the water running. We also let our wash water from the wash machine and shower water go to our plants.
There are a few places here that use alternative energy partly for conservation and partly because our power is so irregular LOL.
Thanks to all for caring about our environment....if we don't who will!!!

Three Cheers for MONA!!!!

As I just stated on another forum....

....when people waste we can create"

All of my 'art' is made from recycled
material...and with the abundance of
TS, GS and curbshopping I figure I
have enough material to last my lifetime!!!

Energy Conservation...
I was amazed when we went to Italy last year how much they conserve.
We stayed in a villa for a week and they provided central washing machines(for towels, sheets etc.) which were small and they do not continuously agitate...they soak for a while, then a quick shake, then soak for awhile longer.
No dryers, just a beautiful clothesline.
They even had a old fashioned scrubboard for those difficult stains.

All the hotels in town were fixed so that the lights only stayed on when you had your hotel key inserted in a slot.
Very few places had air conditioning but they built their rooms with large shuttered doors or windows so they could be opened completely to catch the breeze.

And of course they don't drive gas guzzling autos.
They have scooters for city driving (often electric) or very tiny cars...much smaller than the minis you see here.

In the evenings in smaller towns it was normal for the people who lived there to congregate in the town square where they would visit and gossip.
Here I barely see people walking...often trying to get a parking spot closer to the mall entrance.
There is so many things we can do on a smaller scale.. simple things like turning off the TV and going for a walk with our spouse or a friend.
I wish we had sensors on our lights so that when we left a room the lights would go off....right now I seem to be that sensor as my kids never turn off lights. I have got them trained not to leave the water running while they brush their teeth..LOL baby steps!
ann

Mona - I lived in Bermuda for a year (my parents were there for a few years) and we also used rainwater. It's one reason the islands look so pretty - all the white stepped roofs. Unfortunately for us our water tank got contaminated and we had to buy water for awhile. My mom was taking a bath one day and a tiny fish came out of the faucet into the tub. World Health Organization came out and tested our water for several weeks; it was interesting at least.

When I bought my house 12 years ago I invested in a really expensive (at the time) german washer/dryer and dishwasher - Miele brand. Very water and energy friendly. The washer is a front loader, spins one way for a few seconds then rests then spins the other way. Cleans much better than American style washers and uses about 1/4 the soap and hardly any water. The normal wash cycle is actually two hours long (they have a short one too) but the clothes come out amazingly clean. It was definitely worth the extra expense. When I see big top loaders and the amount of water they use I'm amazed, besides the fact that the agitators are really hard on fabric.

This country seems to have the priority of convenience over everything else. Everything needs to be fast and disposable. We don't want to fix things, we want to throw them out. We don't want to wait for anything, it has to be right now. I think much of this stems from being a society based on capitalism - the pursuit of money - and really, what do you do with a ton of money once you have the basics covered? Have it bigger, get it faster, throw it out. In order to emulate being rich, regular folks want to do the same thing - bigger, faster, disposable. Makes us feel rich. Consequently WalMart takes over the world so we can load ourselves up with lots of disposable stuff and feel rich. I mean, is there any such thing as hand-me-downs anymore? There was never any shame in hand-me-downs when I was a kid but nothing is made well enough any more to last that long.

Soapbox closed for now.

little chloe we filter our water and have it tested every once in awhile (I drank out the same streams that cows did growing up and I am still here) but I also think America has become too antibacterial - it is a great market for those new Walmart products :)
in reference to littlechloe's wash machine...do you all know that your (and mine for now - it's twelve years old) standard American washer uses approx. 60 gallons of water per large load???don't want to even think about the amount of water if you use in an extra rinse.
Funny story..there were a couple of plants with bugs and mildew...hating to use insecticide..I ask the local people if they could give me some pointers. They told me to use soap water. So smarty me decide that the next time I do the laundry I will put the discharge hose in a five gallon bucket (not knowing how much water a washer used) and collect it for the plants. Imagine my reaction when the first time the washer discharged the water about 30 gallons...LOL...me yelling for DH to get me another bucket and another bucket and another bucket and me try to run from the laundry room to outside and dumping the water on the plants. LOL That was the last time I let the water go into the septic system. Garbage cans for many years and finally a semi permanent discharge hose to the bananas, sugar apples and tangerine tree. I say semi perm cuz I can move the hose around as the plants need the water.
Okay Kimmy you got us started....what is your favorite way to save a little of the environment???

Stx,
I recycle...

I grow as many things as I can...which contributes oxygen to the environment...

My DH and I are looking into furnaces that are fueled by corn. Corn is very cheap here...I like the idea that we're burning something that is easily GROWN and very renewable.

We've also looked at very 'green' houses...basically a house with an 'envelope' around it...the thick walls insulate...houses are built to collect sun's warmth...no other heat source...we're still collecting data on it.
My cousin lives in one.

I'll admit, I need to practice more water conservation. You've all inspired me...I'll set up some sort of water collection system before spring - for all the plants.

I REALLY want a vehicle that will burn vegetable oil. Still in negotiations with DH about selling all the cars and trucks. Yes, the truck is a guzzler, but we're out in the country and need a truck. But, on the farm, we zip around on golf carts.

Kimmy

Kimmy - is your truck diesel? A guy at work got a big brand new huge pickup and he got a diesel. He could run it on biodiesel if it was available around here. You don't need to buy some goofy little econo-car. His truck is just a big ol' American pick-up so he can tow his boat and go camping.

littlechloe,
There are several diesel vehicles around...

Where do I find info on this converter...want to show it to DH, in hopes that we can move toward that direction.

I'm keeping up with the Willie Nelson story...I hope hope hope that there's going to be a location in eastern NC. Will be easier to persuade DH to do this if there's one in the general vacinity.

Kimmy

Kimmy -I posted here awhile ago but my post is missing..... Anyway, biodiesel.org has general information. The link below is to a forum that has a section for each state - you can scroll down to NC. Here's an article about people using car converters - it's pretty amusing.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-05-24-veggie-cars_x.htm?POE=click-refer

Here is a link that might be useful: biodiesel forum

Thanks Little chloe,
I've bookmarked the sites to show DH!!!

Kimmy

Both of those websites have a list of biodiesel stations in the US. Also check out the links, especially on the forum website. Also info on how you can convert your own, set up a cooperative, or become a distributor. If you could find some like-minded souls in your area you could combine resources either to purchase or convert your own oil or restaurant oil into fuel. A new adventure!

littlechloe,
'purchase or convert your own oil or restaurant oil into fuel...'
I'm all for it. Gonna get DH to look at these sites.
That's the kind of adventure I could GO for!

Kimmy

My friends from Europe tell how they have been recycling for many years and it has just been in the last 10 to 15 years that the US has started.

I have to mention a few things here, and this one got me started. We've been recycling here for 40+ years (at least in WI) - I don't ever remember a time I didn't have to separate trash from recyclables. That said, recycling paper is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. What do you add to your compost if you want it fluffier and more friable? PAPER shreds. We should be adding our paper to the landfills to aid in decomposition, not keeping it out.

My final word on the subject playing devil's advocate. Corn is a huge nitrogen feeder. It depletes the soil it's grown in VERY quickly. The ground must lay fallow or be planted with nitrogen fixers regularly in order to maintain balance. If we all switched to corn-fed autos tomorrow we'd never be able to sustain a supply of fuel.

The amount of arable land in this country is simply not large enough anymore to supply that industry. Think of all those new homes built in the fields on the outskirts of virtually every city in the country - in my corner of the world those fields were once corn fields.

It's all much more complicated than saying ONE thing is the answer. Just as in nature, all acts have consequences - some quite unintended.

(asbestos suit on - flame away)

Tech,
You're right about corn needing nitrogen...farmers in our area religiously rotate crops.
....if more people would use biodiesel, then there might be more demand and thus higher prices for what farmers could produce.
Not to mention, that biodiesel burns cleaner, so, it would further help the environment.

Kimmy

Corn oil is NOT the oil generally used for biodiesel, so that shouldn't be a concern.

Yea, Littlechloe, I forget, it's soybeans...no matter...What isn't planted in soy, is planted in corn...and what isn't in either of those, it's cotton...at least around here. There's still a speck of tobacco, but not much.
Kimmy

Hey Tech,

Got a bee in your bonnet? Sorry if we offend you...
Out in the country, we've always recycled. Didn't get into 'organized' recycling until I lived in a city.

Call me ignorant, but for most of my life I have either been in school or in such a high stress job (meaning working 60 to 70 hours a week) that while I thought of our environment, I did so rather casually - that's all the time I had to spare for it.

What does frustrate me is that super conglomerates dictate our lives by being convenient.
Easier to go buy gas than to think of what car/truck manufacturers did 75 to 80 years ago to insure that we'd buy those babies...and the oil/gas companies around that shored them up.

My father made his living growing an evil weed...tobacco...
And it was the only thing he could grow that would bring enough money to keep his family clothed, housed, fed and educated.
It breaks my heart to think of him, and my neighbors. They could be growing food...but, we expect grocery prices to be soooo cheap. No way to earn a living producing food.

I would very much like some geniuses to devise equipment that could use corn or soybeans to fuel not only cars/trucks, but also to run heating systems and the like.
It would help our enviroment in more than one way.

Maybe talking about it here will encourage a few more people to think of it. And, as far as I'm concerned, a penny earned can be a penny saved, so to speak, with regard to our environment...and our pocketbooks...and with saving farmland.

If you have particular problems with me, for any reason, please feel free to take it away from the forum...email me privately.

I'm personally happy that there's a stained glass/mosaic forum. Please do not run the newbies away...
I, and others too, appreciate the help and info from others, especially those who have more experience in whatever our 'projects' are.

I've said before, and I'll say it again, now, I know I'm a newbie with much to learn.
I don't feel welcome at GJ anymore...I'm not posting there anymore. Please, play nice.

Kimmy

Tech,
When reading messages, tones are difficult to discern...
But your messages are beginning to sound like Deb's (Yellow22) and I'm sure you remember her December posts.

Kimmy

In my previous post I stated facts that I know to be true and offered an alternative way of thinking to what had already been posted here on a DISCUSSION thread - nothing more. I didn't attack anyone personally using names or snide remarks.

You won't have to worry about encountering my fact-based thinking here any longer, Kimmystar - you've effectively driven me out. Have a nice life.

This is why I did not vote for a "conversation"
side.

There are "always" two sides to a story, two
opinions on politics, religion and every other
subject you can mention.

Tech, please do not leave, you are entitled to
your opinion...and what you wrote was not in
anyway offensive!!!

Kimmy...I read up on biodiesel, and you and
littlechloe have good points....HOWEVER....
the majority of cars in this country are not
diesel, there are people (like me) with old
cars that can not convert and/or buy a new
vehicle!!

This country is 'fossil fuel' dependent, and
the changes that should have been made when
suggested in the 60's (my era) were never
implemented.....so we reap what we have sowed!!

I recycle because without knowing it, I was
raised not to waste....and I pick up off the
curb and in TS and GS and such because that is
what I can afford.

There are millions of people in this country
that are low income, thank goodness there is a
place for us too!!!

Don't really understand what happen here...thought we had a good discussion going. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts...we don't all have to or need to think the same..the world would be a boring place if we did. The only way things get done is by bouncing ideas off of one another.....and remember we are all from different areas of the states/country/world and have different environmental issues we deal with on a day to day basis.
Hope everyone stays cuz I like learning from EVERYONE!!
Mona

I'm a bit surprised that this discussion changed so suddenly.
Really didn't see it coming.
Tech, please don't leave...I would so miss your creativity and your work inspires us so!
ann

I said I wasn't going to say anything else, but I'm doing it anyway.

I am interested in the biodiesel for several reasons...one being I'd like to spend my money with American farmers. I'd like to lessen my dependence on foreign oil. I'd like to help the environment. (I saw this scary, scary piece on TLC...it has to do with Europe going veryyyy cold.

I know that I'm only one person...but, I'd like to think that I can at least help with a problem.

I'm sorry for the offenses...but I'm thankful littlechloe gave me those websites.

I don't ever buy new cars, only used ones. I'm going to have to have another car before too long.

And O'mom, I quit a really good job because of the economy. I 'produced' rather big special events. After 9/11, the economy wouldn't support events. I'm rather poor right now myself.

I try to respect others opinions.

One member of the forum took it as a personal hit.
That member emailed me that she wasn't going to post anymore because of the tone of Tech's message.

And Ohiomom, you've got a point...maybe I spoke in haste about a conversation side...but hopefully this won't happen too much.
I'll try to remember NOT to start anything that might be controversial.

Kimmy

Well, lets see if I can fuel this fire a little bit.
LOL

I don't know some of y'all at all, some I am rather well aquainted with and like. Some I am rather well aquainted with and don't have much use for. That said, I mean that I am really not a stranger, I should be allowed to have a short say as well. Tech, I do hope you are around somewhere.....

I live in Texas, where we CELEBRATE the fossil fuel industry, as well as just about every other energy industry there is. We LOVE Halliburton! imagine that! Halliburton has been a wonderful employer for hundreds of thousands of people over the years, and what they do, they do better than anybody in the world. Some of the things they do, they are the only people in the world who do them.

I support drilling in ANWAR, it is silly to not take advantage of our blessings. It is also suicide to be dependent on other people for our own energy. I support drilling off the coast of Florida, California and everywhere else that has the oil. We have lots of platforms off the coast of Texas. and most people don't know it. You don't see them. They are just out there somewhere.

You could always move to Europe, you know. Just remember, the grass is always greener, and I don't know that you would be happy there either.

As far as Tech's tone, Ms. KimmySTAR, how do you think your tone sounds? Like the kind and sharing person, superior in every way that you perceive yourself to be? Not really. You sounded mean and spoiled, you attacked Tech and anyone else who spoke with a different point of view. This is a place for the exchange of ideas. Everybody does not have to agree with you. And I assure you, everybody does not.

Tech does not ever sound like Yellow Deb, not now, not ever. The only one with that kind of mean attitude 'round here is you.

Janie, who will now return to lurking, but who is always there.

Okay People, Life is too short for this! Stop now! We don't want to loose anybody and we don't have to. Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one. Can we get back to what this forum is designed for. Creativity! Jane