Adding dish washer at the end of a cabinet run -- help!

14 years ago

As part of the minor kitchen update in the house we're buying, we're planning to add a dishwasher at the end of the cabinet run, in place of the refrigerator in this picture:

I know we will need to replace the countertop and extend it all the way to the wall on the right. But I also need a panel to the right side of the dishwasher to cover the insulation.

What is the best/most economical way to get the panel? Home Depot quoted me $115 for a 30"x24"panel, which I'd still have to paint and cut to size. That seems expensive. Could I simply take a piece of wood/plywood and cut it to the right dimensions with a jig saw? What have others done?

The space between the sink cabinet and the wall is about 33". I figure I'll put the 24" dishwasher in there, and still have a few inches under the counter that I can use for storage or serving trays and other flat/big items. Or is it preferable to close off the space?

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Comments (14)

idrive65
14 years ago
I would order a 9" no-drawer base cabinet and paint to match.
weirded
Original Author
14 years ago
That's a great idea! Do you have any tips on finding one with a matching door? I don't know where to look...

(sorry, I'm a total newbie when it comes to kitchens).
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The bigger issue here is whether your existing circuit can handle the dishwasher alone, must less the disposer and dishwasher at the same time. And is there anything else (electrical outlets, lights, other appliances) already on the same circuit as well? Check first. What amperage is your circuit rated for? If it runs to a fusebox with Edison-type fuses (same size screw threads as a common light bulb), be sure it's of the original, intended amperage and not a larger one someone installed along the way. Modern electric code, as well as most manufacturers, specify separate circuits for the dishwasher and disposer. I've seen them frequently on the same circuit in older houses, and you may be fine if you only run the disposer when the dishwasher's not running. But dishwashers typically use about 1400 watts or 12 amps (mostly for the heating element, which both heats the water and dries the dishes at the end), and disposers draw about 8 amps. You'll need a 15 amp circuit to run them alone, and a 20 amp circuit for both run together (though since the disposer is run only briefly, it may not trip your 15A circuit breaker or fuse even if run simultaneously with the D/W). Devices permanently attached to electricity are not supposed to draw more than 80% of the circuit's maximum rated power, so a dishwasher that drew 14 amps would specify connection to a 20 amp circuit. Another issue - knob and tube wiring is inherently safe, perhaps more so than modern combined cables since the hot and neutral wires are run apart from each other, but it doesn't include a ground cable which your dishwasher and disposer should have. It seems possible, and easy, to add a ground wire to existing K&T installations but I don't know if this is allowed by code. Installing new knob and tube circuits is no longer allowed, but extending existing knob-and-tube wiring is specifically allowed by the National Electric Code. Many electricians don't seem to know this, and some, especially young ones who haven't worked on older homes, aren't familiar with K&T in general and are freaked out by the thought of electrical junctions made outside a metal box. Insinkerator sells a "cover control" disposer, as well as an inexpensive batch feed adapter that fits any of their Evolution disposers, as well as an air switch. The air switch seems like a good idea, but run this by someone in the Wiring forum here, or an electrician to make sure what you're doing is safe and at least relatively legal. The break-off-the-tabs solution, in and of itself, should work, but there are other issues here that should be considered.
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brickeyee
14 years ago
Whatever you install must support the counter.
DWs do not provide support.

DWs are normally 24 inches wide, and refrigerators start at around 30 inches wide.
Get a cabinet that will make up the difference, less some clearance (corners are never square, walls rarely flat).
weirded
Original Author
14 years ago
That sounds like a plan. How would I get cabinet doors to match the style of the ones in the kitchen right now?
remodelfla
14 years ago
You could leave it open with shelves and a couple of baskets. Cheaper and simpiler then trying to match the door.
turtleshope
14 years ago
I'm with remodelfla -- leave it open. I would just have a place for the tall & narrow -- trays, baking sheets, pizza sheets.
If you need to match the doors, I think all you can do is take a photo or two and walk around some home or cabinet stores to look for a match ... I replaced the doors on a dog-damaged cabinet that way. (don't store your dog food in the lower cabinet and leave the dog alone, as previous owners seem to have done!)
cheri127
14 years ago
I'd leave it open too and put a shelf in it so you can store more things (baking pans on the bottom, cutting boards on the top?).
sue36
14 years ago
If you want a real cheap option you could glue and staple some nice plywood (the furniture grade stuff, like maple) together to get a 2" thickness and then use a piece of trim to cover the raw edge in the front, then paint it all white. Use L brackets to attach to the wall and floor. Top with a new counter.
idrive65
14 years ago
"Do you have any tips on finding one with a matching door?"

It looks like a pretty straightforward square flat panel door, no? Or you could order it with no door. Or, most cabinet companies make frameless 6" wide bases that store wine bottles or little drawers.
fin1
14 years ago
My parents have a dishwasher which is right next to their refrig. They were told that if the dishwasher did not have an end panel--some protection for the insulation,it would void the warranty.
hestia_flames
14 years ago
I agree with remodelfla -an open cabinet with baskets would be very pretty if you could not get a door to match - Ikea has a 9" wide cabinet for either wine bottles or with shelvesfor about $70 (you would need to purchase feet and a plinth/kickplate - you would have to measure carefully side to side in many places to ensure that it would fit - I am mentioning it because it is very cost effective - also, you won't need a panel if a cabinet is in place.

Also, have you thought about how the upper cabinet will look once the refrigerator is gone? I would recommend either:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S49812309

in white, or maybe open shelves below the current cabinet, or perhaps

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30078219
in white.

I'm trying to think of affordable pieces that would work in your space with glass doors or lack therof. Ikea will mail cabinets. Hope this helps!

Hestia_Flames

Here is a link that might be useful: 9
weirded
Original Author
14 years ago
I like the idea with the IKEA cabinet. Something like this:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50141955

Easy to assemble, fits right into the space. The issue may be that it needs to support the counter top, since the dish washer will not.

As for the upper cabinet, I was going to mount one or two simple white shelves below it, with the bottom one at the same height/depth of the cabinets. Will that look odd?
hestia_flames
14 years ago
A fairly inexpensive way to replace the counter (and would look great with white cabinets) would be to use butcher block from Ikea and seal them with Waterlox. You will need to screw the cabinet into the back wall (use finish washers behind #10 screws, probably 2 1/5 inches long - make sure to find the studs and avoid electrical/plumbing.) Also, you could find the studs behind the intended dishwasher and screw in a piece of 2x4 or metal brackets along the back wall to help support the countertop. If you use the 2/4, I would recommend sealing it so moisture from the dishwasher would not hurt the wood of the support

I am concerned about people hitting their heads on the corner of the cabinet above the fridge once the fridge is relocated (they are usually counter depth, though it is difficult to tell from your photo.) There will be a lot of bending in that space to fill and unload the dishwasher. We ran into that type of head bumping when we were relocating our fridge before the cabinet came down. I guess it depends on your height - I didn't have problems, but my dh and guests did. Anyone 6' or taller. But I don't think that you would want anyone hitting their heads on the cabinet corner.

I would really recommend replacing that cabinet if it is counter-depth. If it is the same depth as the other upper cabinets, you could get by with shelves below. If you moved it down, added some bead board behind it along with a couple of corbels and some crown molding, it could be really sweet. But with all of those add ons, it would probably look just as good as purchasing a single new cabinet with doors - I had suggested the glass door cabinet above because it complimented your doors without exactly matching.

Hope this helps.
weirded
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks, that's really good advice. I will look into the cabinet, but I believe it is less deep than the counter, so head-banging should hopefully not be an issue. Will have to see how it looks, though. Unfortunately, the IKEA cabinet recommended doesn't appear to be in stock anywhere, with no delivery date estimated. :(

I went to Home Depot last night, and they found a 9" cabinet that will closely match the door style of the other cabinets, so I'll probably go with that.

I'm going to update this thread with pictures once the work is done, it'll be a while.

Adding dish washer at the end of a cabinet run -- help!

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