I have no sage advice for you - seems a counselor could help you 'let go'. However, his kids NEED to come before you. They didn't ask to be born, and especially to the parents they have - SOMEONE has to take care of them!

As for the lies, that will never change - he will always lie - sadly, that's a character flaw that takes 'help' to overcome. He's what is called a pathalogical liar - it's a mental illness.

He may have an addiction to pornography, which is also a mental illness - he will need professional help to overcome it, just as any addict does.

I think, if you would get a piece of paper, draw a line down the center of the paper, write 'Pros' on one side and 'Cons' on the other, you would probably find that your former bf has far more 'Cons' than 'Pros' going for him. You need to do the same inventory for yourself.

As for his ex-wife, he will always have a 'bond' with her because of the kids, but also because he has a co-dependency with her. Co-dependency is ALSO a mental illness - it seems there is a LOT of mental illness in this guy!

You might want to salvage your dignity and RUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNN!!!

I totally understand that his kids come before me. I have a 10 yr daughter and she comes before anybody else. However problem is when I asked him why he went from being someone that I felt was my soulmate to being someone I barely knew when he got his kids back in his life...he told me that "prior to him getting his kids back full time he was living two different lives". The life with me and then the life of being a daddy. I had no idea that what we had was something fake and not really him. He never pushed the issue with his kids for about a year or so. I saw them some but not very often. It just didn't really come up-guess I should have insisted that I be around them more in the beginning and maybe things wouldn't have gone as far as they have.

You are right...I have been thinking that maybe there are some more deep underlying problems with him and the lying etc. It is hard to be with someone for almost 3 years and plan to get married thinking that is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with and then you wake up one day and feel like everything is a lie. I'm just really struggling with the reality of it all. I don't trust relationships and marriage anymore. I was married for 12 years before and it ended up in a total disaster. Everyone around me has been hurt and done wrong by their partner at some point. I guess I have lost faith in finding someone who is honest and true.

I do think I am going to seek out some help. I need to believe again that I am worth finding someone who really cares and can have a good strong relationship desite that past.

"....a good strong relationship despite that past."

Due respect, a 10-year-old on your side and two 6-year-olds on his sounds very much like the "present" to me.

You gave your guy a choice, basically, and he chose his kids. I can't imagine any other outcome.

Dating people with ex's and kids is always difficult. Situations change....as this one clearly did. We either handle the baggage or we don't.

Well...it is not that I gave him a choice and said pick me or your kids. I would have never done that. His kids come first and I understand that. Just like my child comes first. My point was that he acted like he was in love with me prior to getting his kids and he would call me up (before we moved in together) and act all down and out because he didn't have the kids and wanted to see me because he was lonely. I started thinking that maybe he just showed me all the love he did because he was missing his kids...of course though he always denied that. Then as soon as he got them back he didn't really have the time of day for me anymore. I felt like I had been put on the back burner and the only time he was concerned about me spending time with him is when he wanted to do something fun with his kids. If the kids went to spend a couple of days with their grandparents and it was just me and him...he would always find stuff to do that didn't include me. He stopped being the person that I fell in love with and for him to say well I had 2 different lives back then kind of hurt me. I didn't know when I met him that one day he would change so much and that he was only showing me attention to make up for the lack of being with his children.

bookworm, you have been given some excellent advice here. Perhaps this was a blessing in disguise, and THIS IS your out. You already said there were already issues between the two of, and the twins stressed you out. What makes you think that if he spent more time with you, that would make the kids more tolerable? Let it go, you can't have it both ways, i.e., list all the negatives, but still want him. Maybe this guy isn't as great as you thought in the beginning.You need to just take care of yourself and your daughter, and when the time is right, start dating again.

As to the original "how to" question.....

It's like any other life-change. There's no particular magic. One just has to move on. However, like other forms of grieving, I would encourage you not to linger. There's plenty of good life left and plenty of good people in it.

Quoting from Gerry Rafferty (yeah, I'm that old) "After a while you get to recognize the signs. And if you get wrong, you'll get it right next time. Next time."

As to the original "how to" question.....

It's like any other life-change. There's no particular magic. One just has to move on. However, like other forms of grieving, I would encourage you not to linger. There's plenty of good life left and plenty of good people in it.

Quoting from Gerry Rafferty (yeah, I'm that old) "After a while you get to recognize the signs. And if you get wrong, you'll get it right next time. Next time."

The sooner you accept things as they are (and be grateful that you didn't end up in a worse mess) the sooner you'll feel better and be ready to look elsewhere. You probably don't miss 'him' (as you yourself mentioned), but the him you hoped he'd be. Don't forget the beginning of a relationship is always dreamy and exciting, but once reality hits, it can go south fast, and in your case reality hit pretty hard, so just keep walking the other way one day at a time and do look for new interests to pursue, not just ones where you're likely to meet someone (e.g. a bar) but ones that are interesting in themselves, which will make you more interesting to whoever you do end up meeting one day, plus it'll give you something else to think about instead of the past, which you cannot change no matter how many ways you try to skew it.

My first husband was a liar and he never changed in the 15 years I was married to him. My second was a softy to his girls, but not so with his son. Of course son's don't cry for money like girls do. The main warning to me would have been when your fiance said he was living two lives. He does not want to admit you to his life with his kids.

Bookworm - hope you are feeling better and have found some resolution to your pining ....

I was reading your initial post and said to myself, "you just LET GO". Hummmmm I know, much easier said than done. I've been trying to figure out how to LET GO of a person in a much different situation (i.e. family member) and finding it really difficult regardless of how toxic the relationship is. But, I do recall one relationship that I had a tough time letting go ... we were living together (sort-of) and I was being taken advantage of seriously. But I thought he was "the guy". One night he continued to call me and it was making me sooo sad - wanting his company. Finally, I heard the phone ring for the last time --- I got out of bed and unplugged the phone. Then cried for hours. I just knew that I had to end it --- cease all contact. He must have picked up on what I was doing and I don't think he ever phoned again. I was painful - but amazingly freeing. It was probably one of the bravest thing I have ever done. I hope I could do the same again now if need-be although I can't say for certain.

Wishing you luck - I know the situation is difficult.

I am doing better...it has been a little while now that he has been gone. He still calls and even though it has been like 2 months since he originally left...believe it or not he is still getting crap out of my house!!! I have had to nag him just about everyday for 2 months to get this done. I am moving tomorrow into my apartment and he has waited until almost the last minute to deal with getting all his crap. It has really shown my a lot more about him....he procrastinates about everything! To top it off he is mad because I haven't invited him and his twins over for dinner since they all left. I think the only reason why he wanted to have them over to my house is so they could confront me and ME have to explain why they aren't living in my house anymore. I saw right through him because he has made so many comments like "I'm having to explain why the kids don't live with you anymore and I'm tired of talking to them about what is going on". I warned him prior to him moving them in full time that it was not a good idea because I saw this happening..us splitting but he didn't listen. All he could think about was he wanted this perfect family...which was not reality. He did lots of stuff on his own to damage our relationship. Yet he thought we were meant to be...didn't take me long to see that what he really missed was a wife and a mother for his kids.

Anyway...I am thrilled about living alone again. Relationships have really dragged me down for a while now and I need time to just be me and not worry about if someone is lying to me or doing me wrong. I am happy with just me! I enjoy hanging out more with my friends and family, going to the gym, I am getting back into cake deocrating classes again and may go back to school part time. I am very excited about the apartment and moving into it feels like a good fresh start. I think when I originally started this post I was missing him and feeling so alone. Here I am today though and feel better than I have in a long time!!!!

Yo Bookworm...congratulations on dodging this bullet. (Dare I say "slug"?)

And bravo on the attitude. There are lots of wonderful people in the world. If you want one, eventually, they'll be there. All you're missing is what (notice I didn't say "who"....) you thought he was. You're going to be fine.

Now this is what this Forum is all about - being single and making it!!!

Congratulations Bookworm - not so much that the relationship such a floppy ending, but because you have adjusted well and are on the upside of living life again.

Here's to miles of smiles for ya.

gng

Congrats bookworm, you did the right thing by breaking this off. Sorry, but what a low-life to use his kids to try to make you feel guilty. It's his responsibility to provide a home for them, not yours!

I'm so happy for you ... hope you are able to continue feeling so positive! I remember too how good it felt after a long-term relationship to get "back to basics" - going to the gym and just taking care of YOURSELF!

Bookworm, If you've read my posts you know that I'm in that same place right now. Here's one thing that helped me. I wrote a letter to "him" telling him several things: I acknowledged my role in the failure to make it work; I reaffirmed my love for him; I told him what I had learned during the past four years (it was a lot); I described what I'm doing now to help myself heal, move on, and let go; and in the last paragraphs I told him I was glad he was part of my life for four years. I ended the letter saying I hope he could forgive me for my part of the breakup, just as I was trying to forgive him. I said I would try to forget the negatives and ended with, "I wish you everything good in your life, and am glad you were in mine, for the good times."

It took me several days to write the letter. I didn't want to be accusatory and neither did I want to blame myself. I discovered that, as I wrote those last paragraphs that I have, indeed, made some progress in the area of letting go. It comes in very small steps for me. I have to drive past his house twice a day, and yesterday I discovered that I didn't even look to see if his car was in the carport. Hoo-ray! That's a baby step, but it's a step. Good luck to you, friend. Remember that time is on our side.

Way to go "hello" - very good and solid advice! See, I told you, you were already coming out (see my post on your thread). Bookworm - even if you don't send it, it is good to write down those words just to exhale (like the movie). It would be good to send it as long as it won't bring back "warm" thoughts to his heart, or yours. Again though, great suggestion "hello".

Thanks, but guess what? He called me yesterday morning. He said he appreciated the letter and asked if I'd have brunch with him. I said yes, and did. He said he still loves me and has not been interested in anyone else. He asked if we could stay in touch, and hopes we might find out if there's a future together. I was pretty shocked. Now I don't know what in the heck to do. I was planning my "coming out" party.

Any advice, anyone?

Well that's nice. But what's new? What is it that needs to be found out?

Recommend you get on with your life.

Say, it's human nature to want what we can't have, SOOOOO - IF you decide to 'take him back', don't make it easy - play hard to get - still have your coming-out party! Act like you don't care, one way or the other, if you ever see him again. Tell him you are now 'playing the field' and if you can find some free time, you will give him a call.

Disagree. Don't "act" at all. You'll just be messing with your own head if you do that. This isn't play. Bad suggestion.

Jo - sorry on this one; gotta agree with asolo on this one. This is a slippery slope that could land "hello" right on her you-know-what. This is exactly what I was saying to "bookworm" in a previous post. THIS is the time to watch out. You become comfortable in a relationship - even a bad one. When in new surroundings or when no one else is around, you get lonely; you begin to reminesce, etc. To split is to split. Now, my ex and I, as some of you know from my posts here, are good friends. But, that took a number of years. We didn't speak, etc, for probably five years. Neither one of us planned it that way, but circumstances played a part in that. I know that if I opened the door so to speak, we would be back to the marriage and I'm not sure I really want that. So, I tread lightly. He knows that too, and respects that (all the while watching to see if the door cracks, even a bit - LOL).

The 4 mos may have been a "cooling-off" period and gave each of you time to reflect. At this point I don't think it is great to continue the contact if you really don't want to to get back with him. On the other hand, if you are thinking about it, just be sure each of you understands the boundaries right now. Lonliness can lead to oh so much temptation. Whether you have a full 24hours loaded up with things to do, place to go and people to see, nothing can take the place of having that signicant relationship, especially since you were together for so long.

It's OK to want to check things out, but be honest and up front about your intentions and expectations. To date every once in a while would be OK too, for compaion-sake. Just be sure to understand that it could lead to other things, including having to go through another breakup.

I hope things work out if that is what you decide to do. I'll root for ya on that one. But if you aren't 100% sure, use your head and be cautious until you are.

gng

I agree also with you, asolo and gng. I am not a game player. If I can't be accepted purely on the basis of who I am and with straight talk about my thoughts and feelings, then it won't work for me. That being said, I do think it wise to take my time. I saw him last night and it became obvious that he wants to move back into the same place we were four months ago.

I think I will go ahead and have my party. But here's a new problem: Obviously, I hadn't intended to invite him, but now I don't want to hurt his feelings by NOT inviting him. And yet, if I do, am I really "coming out?" Hey, I just thought of something. He is in a fishing tournament one weekend soon. I can have it then, I think.

This may be a slippery slide, and I wonder where I'll end up. I won't know until I try and unless I stay true to myself.

I understand "hello" what you are going thru. My ex-fiance called me and wanted to go out to eat this past weekend and soooooo I did...maybe that was a bad idea but I did. Thing is I feel like he can be a really good person...it's not that is talks down on me or is physically abusive..nothing like that. He just made a few bad choices with money...not mine, it was all his money...and of course he has 6 yr twins that are still living with him full time and I know that I can't be a full-time stepmom to them. My nerves are shot after about an hour with them. I love kids...have a daughter myself but his kids seem really hard to handle. You can't watch tv, talk on the phone etc. when they are around.

He still calls me everyday though and tells me he loves me and that he hopes one day things will change. My family is against me having anything to do with him...not that they make my decisions...I have to remind my mom a lot that I am almost 32 and can decide who to have contact with but I guess she is just looking out for me though.

I am ok when I am alone without him but he is not. He calls me up late at night and sounds as if he has been crying. He tells me how much he needs me and misses me. He apologizes for his mistakes in our relationship. He makes me feel bad and that I am hurting him unfairly.

Wow, that's really a guilt trip he's putting on you, bookworm. I think you can be sensitive to his hurt, but at the same time look out for yourself. You seem to be going through some of the same things as me, although my ex (still calling him that) doesn't try to make me feel guilty about his feelings. What he *does* do is the same thing as always, and that is refusing to take responsibility for his blow-ups, hinting or saying outright that I caused them. If I say that he hurt me it's always, "Yes, you really know how to get to me." If I call him on his "stuff," he ALWAYS says, "You remember that differently than I do." If I ask him how he remembers it, the answer is always "We don't need to go back over that." So we get nowhere. And he absolutely refuses counseling with me. Maybe I should just go ahead and go by myself.

I wondered if maybe that is what he is doing...he wants me to pity him because he is now living back at his mom's with his 2 kids and I just moved into a nice apartment. The thing is he doesn't deny the things that he did wrong in our relationship but does admitting those mistakes make it ok for me to forgive him??? I feel like sometimes he has pulled the wool over my eyes and wants me to think he is this great person for me when in fact he knows his flaws but hides them from me. Everyone has flaws but for instance he has never been good with money and lied to me on two different occassions about paying the rent on time when he was actually late paying it. His excuse was "well I am a guy and guys hide things..guys don't want to admit they don't have something under control". I thought that was a very lame excuse. He has since then back tracked and apologized for saying that. He said that he said it out of anger. Sometimes I am so torn because I feel like if I don't fully trust him now after 3 years....will I ever???

Quote from OP: "have to figure out what to do from here because I can't keep hanging on to that last little thread of what is left of us."

I still maintain that she needs to MOVE ON and let him PROVE to her that he's worthy of her. If she acts non-chalant, he will get the point that she doesn't NEED him to survive.

Maybe she can eventually warm up to him, but not right at first. He 'screwed' with her life once, and he will DO IT AGAIN! Remember this: Easy come, easy go!

You know, I think your "gut" (for lack of a better word) is telling you a lot. I'd say just listen to it and keep an open mind.

We are older than you and I think that makes a lot of difference.

I must be really out of it. Don't understand this clingy stuff after all that's gone down as described. Don't see how it matters at 30 or 70. You've seen everything there is to see....years of experience....and you're troubled in mind about whether or not to leave it behind? Don't understand. Don't understand hesitancy. Don't understand the play-acting suggestion. Don't understand voluntarily holding one's own life hostage when there's so much else that might be explored. Seems like a waste to me. I'm suspecting a self-constricted life, but don't really know. In any event, what are you going to do with a guy with two kids who's living with his mother? What does one do with guy that blows up all the time?

Seems to me you should both be grateful you're done with them.

I couldn't agree MORE with what asolo said! That was what I was trying to convey, when I made my suggestion. He has crapped on you, and he's looking for a mommy for his kids AND himself. Do you have a co-dependency relationship, perhaps?

If you make him 'work' for a relationship with you, it gives YOU time to 'think' AND I suspect he will find someone else to fill the 'mommy' role while he is forced to wait on you to 'change' your mind.

Once again, I would 'go about my business, as usual' and see what he does in the next 6 months!

Asolo - you really have it going on. I couldn't agree with you more, and you as well Jo. However, if only life were that easy, and sometimes I wish it was. I know even in my own daily struggle, it's tough to be so stong in my conviction to be sure that it is right for me, when I really want to cave in sometimes because I need a hug sometimes. Everyone does at some point and time, and I think that is really the crux of the matter. We make a decision based on what we think or actually know is the right thing to do, even if it is emotional at the time - say after "I've had it with him/her", and "I can't take this anymore". Whether it is good or bad isn't really the question in most cases such as this. The decision should be whether it is "right" for "me". I can't tell you how much I KNOW that my ex is a super-duper great guy, and there is no one out there that can dispute that. But when it comes to "us", we click on every level except one - as much as he is the gentle teddy-bear that ALL women love, he still gets my gut with some of the comments he just throws out there for me to catch. No matter how I try to overcome that awful feeling, I always end up feeling like I've been kicked in the gut. He does it with everyone, so I know it's not just me. But when you are that close to someone, it seems to sting the most - if you are married, or sharing the same place, your only option is to sleep on the couch, which brings its own set of issues.

So, I think for these situations, the good times and good thoughts about these guys far outway the bad or uncomfortable things. The tug is at the heart and the heart and mind just don't agree on the best outcome.

I say it's a "column A and Column B" exercise with a conscious decision to either accept the "Column B" or move on. The problem - "Column A" is staring you in the face. Life...; you can't live with them and you can't live without them...

Um...yes you can, actually. Both ways.

You've got head-troubles, sweetheart. Find out who you are and what you're worth. Learn how to tell when a decision is called for. Learn how to go with it once you make it. The baseball analogy: "You can't steal second base if you're leaving one foot on first."

Decide. Act. Move ahead. Don't look back. Remember fondly later if you want to but don't cling once you've decided. MOVE.

asolo, your posts are something else. I think though that we all know what to do, but the human, feeling side of some of us is a little stronger than the other side. Wish it was that easy. Decide, Act, Move...; sounds like the desensitization training that my cousin the cop had to go through. But, the point of my last post was actually what you said - make the decision, however you need to, and then go forth, even if it means to let go. Whichever, stick to your guns, so to speak. I was just saying also, it's not that easy for most, especially for us gals. If you notice, the guys in this case even have difficulty doing that. As I said, life...

As I said, I must be really out of it. I don't understand.

I understand where all of you are coming from with this. I guess I just need to accept that things are not going to be the way they used to be with me and my ex. Now that his kids are in the picture full time everything is different...he doesn't even have time to have a 2 minute phone call with me some days much less anything else. I totally understand that twins can be a challenge and I totally agree that they come first no matter what. I guess the part that kills me is in the beginning he had them every other weekend and things seemed perfect for everyone... then when his ex started causing problems it changed our relationship drastically. I had no idea when I met him that things were going to turn out this way. Guess I was living in a fantasy world that our relationship would always be strong and wonderful. Our relationship at one time was so great that is almost sickened my friends and family. They didn't know it was possible to be so close to someone like I was with him. So...I think part of me is trying to let go of the past and realize that it is gone. It is hard though to let go when you thought you found your soulmate and then find out you were wrong.

I do think that if he would just leave me alone I could get over him. He calls me though a lot and like I said before he tells me how much he needs me...even breaks down crying at times. Funny thing is I can't cry about it anymore...maybe that means I am doing better with it than I thought. I have even tried to give the engagement ring back to him several times. He paid $8000 for the ring and I have the ring and all the paperwork on it still. Why would a man leave that with someone who is splitting from them?? He wants me to hold on to it and I'm sure that is because he is hoping that one day we will still get married. I feel like letting go of him is taking months and it is dragging me down.

asolo, I want to respond to your question, "What does one do with guy that blows up all the time?" And BTW, since we're posting our personal lives here in the public place, I do believe it's within everyone's right to voice an opinion. I appreciate yours.

First, I have not made a decision on whether or not to try and resume my relationship with Bill (not his real name). We had four years together and a lot of wonderful times mixed in with the blow-ups. I have been single a long time and have discovered that when you move from one relationship to another, you trade one set of problems for another and that's why I said being older helps me. Also, neither of us has children at home or financial issues to consider.

No one is perfect, and that includes me as well; he has put up with my shortcomings too. My decision is a simple one, but not an easy one: either accept him as he is, or move on once again. He will not change, even though I believe he would like to. He is a doctor who has never worked for anyone else in his life other than his patients. He's an authoritative person who is accustomed to calling the shots and ordering people around in order to accomplish what has to be done. While there is no way I would even try to justify his temper, I do believe there is a good man behind it. My only decision is whether or not I can, or want to, handle it.

Believe it or not, but in your post you sound very much like Bill, meaning it sounds for you like it is a black or white issue; for me, clearly, it isn't.

Deb, email me - I want to talk to you with regard to this topic. Hugs, Jo

"...it sounds for you like it is a black or white issue; for me, clearly, it isn't."

"My only decision is whether or not I can, or want to, handle it."

Appears contradictory to me. Appears "black or white", in fact....as most decisions are. One does one thing or another. Acts or declines to act. Indecision is a decision, too. I wish you well.

As I said, the decision is simple but not easy. I do appreciate your good wishes, my friend.

Yeah, the "easy" part is often elusive, is it not? Damned reality!

Oh boy - we got this Forum going again, it looks like. If it wasn't such a serious and emotional topic, and about personal subject, this would be a fun topic to debate 4ever, especially since we have the black and white and the gray!!

You are right "hello" - this is a lot personal info here. Hopefully everyone understands that, including the folks that can "google" it and find it. Oh well, nothing's sacred anymore.

I enjoy debate because it lets me know who a person is. And I never cease to be amazed that a group of individuals can look at the same scenario and describe it in totally different ways than all the others. It reminds me of something I read years ago (paraphrasing): We are the sum total of all our experiences. As an individual, if I could remove even one of those experiences, I would be a different person.

I had no idea this subject would be so popular.

I do like reading other peoples views and opinions. Sometimes they see something I don't.

I have changed jobs, moved out and into an apartment...getting my life back on track again and one thing still holds me back and keeps me down and I am starting to figure out what that is...my ex.

He doesn't do anything or say anything that causes me to be upset or argue with him but I feel like there is this weight around my neck sometimes when I talk with him. Like something is pulling me down and I will never be free from it.

I know that the easy thing to do is to tell him it's totally over and be done with it all but for some reason I can never bring myself to do it. Then when he gets upset and starts telling me how lost he is without me...I start thinking..."yeah...right...you are just miss having someone cook, clean and help you with your kids"....then later I feel bad for thinking like that and wonder if maybe he is being sincere. What if I end it all with him and he truly has realized that he messed up and is trying to change. Not very fair not to give someone the chance to change. I think I am content with leaving things the way they are...we speak most days on the phone and then I see him maybe 6-7 days out of the month. He on the other hand seems to be growing tired and depressed with the situation and dwells on how things used to be and that he wishes we could go back to that again.

I guess bottom line is too...I can't live with the twins full-time. I have already tried that and I am much happier now that I don't have all that stress on a daily basis anymore. So....if he is thinking we should still get married..I don't see how I will ever be able to do that.

Ok, see, bookworm - asolo is right. The decision is made and you are going on with your life. Problem - you keep going back to the decision to perfect it. Not being negative here; just a lightbulb went off that your last post is exactly what asolo was referring to. We keep trying to perfect our decision based on our ever-changing emotions. Today is a good day and tomorrow isn't, or I'm not feeling it. It's that way with everything I think. That's why I have so many clothes I don't wear (with the darn tags on them too!!)

There is no such thing as the perfect decision - or let's just say, the decision is only right at the time it is made, based on the circumstances and environment we are in at the time.

When we make a left turn and an intersection and then realize later that if we had made the right turn, we could have stopped at the gas station to get that cup-o-jo- we want now, it is not as life altering as a decision to stay or go in a relationship. There is always the next time to make that right turm and get the coffee, but not so in relationshipe. The likelihood that the gas station won't be there is slim to none. In relationships, there is most often the chance that the perosn will not be there or will say No. The gas station is inanimate and we probably don't care if it is (or could be) upset becasue we didn't go there. On the other hand, the other person in the other half of the relationship we have a living breathing person that probably will care if we don't turn their way, or may think badly of us. So...

Just pondering, I guess.

Sure I'll get slammed for this analogy but it is -- exactly -- like deciding to lose weight. It's not a diet. It's a lifestyle change. One has to decide, act, and continue acting. It's every day. All day. For the rest of your life. It's deciding how you're going to live.

In the case of the relationships described, it's just like that. It's deciding to live without. It's becoming so interested and involved in other things that the previous habit becomes unnoticed in its absence.

It's a decision. It's black and white. Of course it's difficult. What else ya got?

Ok...I'm over it. Hell, it's not my life.

gneegirl-you are exactly right it is my ever-changing emotions. They change on a daily basis. Some days I miss him and wish that things were the way they used to be and then other days I want to drop him so fast....but when I feel that way I'm usually feeling angry after thinking about things that happened between us and all I can think of is hurting him the way he hurt me. Revenge I guess. Part of me wants to believe that he is a rotten scum bag because it makes it easier for me to justify kicking him out of the house. I become very torn with what is the truth and what is not. My friends and family tell me lots of negative things about him and I go in this defensive mode for him and then later on after I start thinking more I wonder if I am being fooled by him and that maybe they are right. I feel like maybe it has all become too complicated for me to hang on to this. Should a relationship be so hard??? I guess too I feel like I am never going to find anyone. I was married for 10 years and divorced (nasty divorce) and then got hooked up with a guy who did drugs but I was blind to it for quite a while...there has been a few others but all jerks pretty much. So when I met my now ex (not sure if that is what I should even call him or not since we still see each other some) but anyway I thought he was the greatest guy in the world and could do no wrong. I think I am very disappointed and maybe part of me hangs on because I tell myself it won't get any better than this anyway.

I guess though I just need to make that plunge and tell him how it is going to be...over. I am enjoying life more now and feel good about myself. I don't want him to bring me down again. I want to feel like I don't NEED a man in my life just for the sake of having one...that I can be happy with just me.

I hear you saying that it hurts to hurt someone. I think it's more difficult to do that than to deal with the hurt yourself. Good luck to you BW.

Before you guys trash me anymore I just wanted you let all of know devastating it is to stumble upon a public forum with all your personal background out there for anyone to make a stab at it.
I really went through a lot getting my kids, I went would go weeks without seeing my children, my ex would make fake doctor's appointments in order to get so called co-pay and prescription money, she used the kids in everyway to scam money from me. Of course I had a court case but it was constanly postponed and went on for over a year. I much as I wanted to get even I stayed within the legal system and now I have custody of my children. Even after i had them full time i had to still pay child support until that part of the legal system was taken care of, so yes financially I was sinking.
They are not monsters like many of you have made a stab at, they are 2 wonderful and sweet kids. They went from having to repeat Kindergarden (missed almost 40 days of school with mom)to being top of their class. I am not a bad parent like many of you have suggested.
While all this was going on my full time job I had for over 12 years was cutting back our hours, child support payments still of course remained the same(not paying that would have landed me on another forum I guess)so I started taking photography serious because it was easy to see my job was going to vanish. I started part-time and started to make money and yes it did require computer time. Just as I predicted my old job is now gone and I am now a Full-time photographer with a store-front studio. Just like any self-employed job you make lots a sacrifices at first and little money but now I am doing quite well.
As you can see I had a lot in my lap and it was quite stressful. She went from getting my full attention from getting it when I had time, I never wanted it that way. I NEVER saw her as an instant "mommy". I knew from the minute I saw her I wanted to marry her. True, I did have visions of us all together but that was only from the fact I Loved her. I do intead still have her engagement ring, I have been offered money for it but I still hope one day I will be able to place back on her finger. Will I wait till my kids are grown up and go off to college so we can pick up from where we left off...Yes, I Love her that much.
I am not a villian guys, I'm just a guy that was pesented with a lot of challenges and I am becoming a better man each and every day.

I want to do a follow up from 2008. I can not remember my old password so I made a new profile. I was in a relationship with book_2007 but it all ended last month after 7 years.
I wanted everyone to know that I stayed true to my last post. I waited for her for years to come around, fact is she never accepted my kids (now 11 years old). They were invited to her apartment 1 time time and their behavior was perfect. She never came to any of there birthday party's...I can go on but there is no need. I stayed patient as she would blame her estranged relationship with her daughter for the absense in my children's lives. I was so much much in love with her, I put my whole life in limbo for her.
Last month, I caught her cheating. After talking to her over the phone she would only admit she was just talking to him. She spent the whole weekend with him but she claims all they was talk. She took all my personal property and sold it on craigslist.
She actually ended our relationship over a text like we were in a middle school relationship. She hurt me beyond measure.

It's funny that so many people were making comments about me and my children when we were in a slump. Why no comments now? I've only told you a small part of what she has done to me, you guys have no idea...nobody want to kick me while I'm down again?