Fledgeling, I wonder if they fertilized with chemical fertilizers or natural ones, like manures and/or compost? I know that chemical fertilizers can kill many (if not all) of the beneficial organisms in the soil, but manures and compost seem to increase them. I know for sure that they increase the numbers and size of earthworms. I even find lots of big earthworms in the pots I grow my seedlings in until they reach deer "untrampable" size - they must crawl up into the pots through the drainage holes. I don't use any chemical fertilizers on anything any more, just mix a little chicken manure or composted cow manure into the soil - it's worked very well for me. Since earthworms travel, they probably help aereate and fertilize the soil for pretty good distances away from where you put the manures/composts. It could very well be that rich soils enable big plants, like trees and shrubs, to grow fast and shade out smaller plants, decreasing the diversity/types of plants that grow there. I've read that some of the worst soils in the world are in the South American rain forests - if not for leaf litter, the huge diversity of plant life there couldn't thrive. Sherry

ItâÂÂs cold outside, so IâÂÂve got plenty of time to tell you how it all ended. I took in several samples of my Franken-plants to the Master Gardners. The pro in the office immediately said: âÂÂaminopyralid.â Apparently it was one of many cases sheâÂÂd seen this year and she said that it continues to be a problem, mainly from contaminated manure in compost. I had based most of my research on googling âÂÂclopyralidâ so when I did a new search, I immediately got a lot of hits showing that is still very much an issue in the Northwest (at least within the last couple of years). Sad. Also, I found the best pics yet of what the damage looks like - which is exactly what my tomatoes and peppers looked like (see link below). So what did I decide on? Well, after all the work cutting the sod & building the beds in the only spot on our little city lot that has enough sun (no extra space even for pots), and being far too impatient to let it resolve over a few years (several seasons without produce after all that work?!) we decided to dig it out. We took it back to the supplier who returned our money. They were very gracious, and alarmed at our experience. We must have gotten a random bad batch as they themselves use it in their gardens, and some of my friends used it without trouble (although maybe not to completely fill new raised beds like I did). Apparently there are some suppliers in the area that test for these chemicals, so we will try again next summer - I feel so fortunate that we can afford to! While it was sad to tear out all the produce (we opted not to eat any, regardless of what Big Chem says is safe), and frustrating to dig out all the dirt (gave up a beautiful fall weekend to do it), I just kept thinking of my grandparents who lost their farm after a couple of bad crops back in the early 1940âÂÂs and then had their one dairy cow die as they were moving their 8 kids to a rental. IâÂÂve got no room to complain! Thanks for everyoneâÂÂs input, advice, ideas & experience. Here is a link that might be useful: WSU Extension Aminopyralid Pictures

that's it Dan .... so.. did we establish that it is properly jesoensis?? Larry .... two different reasons... if we get a foot of snow... i don't want to step on the tiniest of them .. so some are just there to caution me.. or the KIDS!!!! ... see a stake.. give it a wide berth ... second.. weepers.. if not trained to a certain height ... will just grow on the ground.. on the 5 acres.. i need a little height ... to make a mound .. from which to weep .. for visual effect.. and to draw the guest toward it.. and there is a third reason .. some weepers are actually upright trees.. that then have pendulous branches... but grafts are taken from lower secondary branch ends.. and it seems to take a few years to get it through their thick skulls.. that they are leaders .. and no longer branches ... make sense?? did i miss any reasons?? ken

homenovice, I bought a bunch of different kinds of hydrangeas from JoyCreek last fall. Very cheap and received them in one week. Shipping is pretty much affordable and if you buy more than one you save on shipping. Around $10-12 per plant. Though small shrubs, the root systems are full. They came in pint size pots (smaller than 1 Gallon). Note that they are not big shrubs but good enough to start with and if you are patient then you save money and get all the hydrangeas that you want. http://www.heronswood.com/ has also a good selection of hydrangeas and affordable too.