Tell her what you wrote above (I'm sure you will be nice as possible about it) and if she has any sense, she will either be helped or she will quit talking, to you at least, about these things - hopefully!

Maria

I also work with people who are beyond strapped for cash and make mistakes like going to the more non-legitimate places for debt consolidation, or buying a primo hot car on a 6-year loan or what have you.

To unpersonalize the advice, I quote Clark Howard or tell them about how his site helped me, or how his site can help you find legitimate credit counseling, etc.

That way I don't sound too preachy or know-it-all, Clark does! :-)

The one advise I do share is the enormous freedom living within my means gives me. I didn't get here by luck or quick fixes, either. Just living below our means, and driving cars til their wheels fall off.

I don't (keep my mouth shut that is) when a person asks me I will tell them what I see as being wrong with their spending...OK it might insult them but THEY ASKED FOR HEAVENS sake. I had a neighbor like your co worker who would come and complain all the time about not being able to live within their means...their bad credit etc. She loved to ask advice but didn't follow it anyway...I just let her talk and said the same thing back to her everytime...I think she just needed an ear to listen to her and help her feel like perhaps there was a way they could climb out of the debt hole....when she moved it was off into a debt ridden sunset....and then she called me long distance a few times with the same request.....then I moved and surprise we lost touch. sometimes having someone to talk to is all they are looking for anyway. Live and let live. Bud

Sometimes, when you're in a tunnel, you just can't see any way out----or you think it's too hard to find the way out----so, you stay in the tunnel.

For me, it's terribly difficult to save money when my DH wants to spend all the time. It sounds like this lady is somewhat in that boat.

Maybe you could just say in a kidding manner----Hey, when you get serious about wanting to be debt-free---I know some great websites!

I appreciate everyone's comments. This woman is so dense, so self-sabotaging and so very talkative that I find it frustrating to interact with her on a daily basis. I mean, how many times can you listen to the same old story of someone digging themselves ever deeper into same old holes?

I'm probably way too emotionally involved in this, probably because I've had to listen to it so often. I'm not good about hearing something and letting it go in one ear and out the other.

As a result, I'm sort of past the point where I can offer feedback in a neutral manner, I find her pretty annoying and some days it's all I can do to keep from biting her head off.

But, you've all sort of reminded me that her problems are not my problems and to muster some patience with the poor woman!

It really is frustrating when someone just talks in circles about some problem. Sometimes it's money, but a lot of times it's a "terrible" spouse or child, a co-worker or boss they don't like, or the person's aches, pains, and ailments (real or imagined).

In my experience, if your goal is to shut the person down, the best response is the least response. If you offer advice, you tend the fuel the conversation: Then, on top of the various financial problems, you'll get to hear (in excruciating detail) why any suggestion you offer couldn't possibly work.

I used to complain about being "fat" (I was a bit overweight). My coworker (who must have been SOOOO sick of hearing me) finally said to me, VERY briskly, but also very inquiringly, as if there really ought to be an answer forthcoming, "What are you going to do about it?"

I suddenly realized that if I truly thought I was fat, there was a solution, and I knew what it was already, and I should do it.

So I did.

You could try that.

Some people just like - need - to complain, and tend to create things in their lives to complain about.

I've known so many people who keep making terrible choices and sabotaging themselves, yet always blame others for their misfortune. They show up to work late habitually, but when they get fired it's because the boss just doesn't like them. Same thing.

Talley Sue had the best advice. I second that.

Oh...I am going through a similar situation with a good friend right now, and it makes me nuts.

She was laid off from her job (not tremendously skilled or specialised, she managed a couple of gas stations.) That was August 2003. She has three (older, all in school) kids, and a significant other who does not make enough $$ to support the family - only the youngest child is his, the other two "dads" are history & don't contribute. Yes, my friend has made some bad choices in the past...!

Anyhow, after she was laid off, I hired her on a temporary/cash basis, just to help her out in the mean time. I also helped out financially in other ways, and I doubt I'll ever see that $$ again - it's not an insignificant amount, either. I really didn't need another employee, and it cut into my profit, but I was trying to be helpful. Anyhow after several months I realised she was making no effort to look for a job so I told her I didn't have enough work for her, which was true.

Anyhow, it's almost ELEVEN months later and she still hasn't really made an effort. Last month her 18 year old daughter desperately needed money, something to do with college acceptance. I hired her for two days of work, and my friend was a bit miffed b/c I didn't hire HER! I pointed out her daughter had no transportation & couldn't really find work, but she could. That was another crack in our friendship.

On Friday we chatted, and again she was complaining about not being able to find a job, not having grocery $$, yadayada. So...I went online, copied all the want ads (over 20) that I knew she'd be hire-able for from the paper, then included the contact info for several colleges & agancies that helped people/single moms get training and employment, and emailed them to her. I added a friendly comment that she could be employed by next Friday, then she'd be able to afford to join a class I'm taking; something she says she really really wants to do.

She hasn't returned my calls since Friday, and we were suppposed to get together on Sunday....

Thanks for letting me vent! Most of the people I know, know her too, so I really don't have many people to vent to.

"On Friday we chatted, and again she was complaining about not being able to find a job, not having grocery $$, yadayada"

In that particular case, I would have simply used Talley Sue's response:
"So...what are YOU going to do about it?"

Karen, absolutely - actually I've said that to her in the past to no avail.

I think like someone else said, she's not really looking for advice or solutions (or a job, haha) but just wants to - I don't know, complain. Maybe she really just wants to take some time off from working + being a full time mom (her BF has not had steady employment until this last 7 months or so.) I know she was tired of feeling responsible for everything....
and that's perfectly valid, you know; I would understand if she said "Oh I hate being this broke but it's so nice that X is working steadily and I can take more time with the kids." (She's a great mom, very involved with her kids.) But instead she complains about being broke yet doesn't do anything about it; I guess I just got tired of hearing it.

Just wondering---have you suggested some type of counseling for her? And, btw, managing 3 service stations couldn't be an easy task!!

It makes it more difficult when you suggest solutions to her and, as you mentioned, puts some strain on your relationship. Maybe a professional counselor could do more, and she would listen more.

A couple of the links I sent her were for job & career counseling; I've offered more than once to go with her to the counseling office at the community college! She's a really smart lady, has great work ethic too.
Oh well, I have that "guy" trait of trying to fix things for people...I'm aware of it & try not to.
I know she's mad at me, LOL....she probably thinks I'm now in cahoots with her mother (who has also been nagging her to ** or get off the pot....)
Sorry for the thread hijack, I know this isn't quite OT for this forum.

you know, if you're REALLY tired of hearing it, it wouldn't be that horrible to SAY so.

"I know it's hard for you, but I'm really tired of hearing about it. I've done all I could to help, and you don't seem to be doing anything about it yourself. It just gets old. I value your friendship, so can we just not talk about this anymore? If you get serious, I'm happy to encourage you. But listening to you complain is getting really old."

I feel like we're missing part of the puzzle. There must be a reason she hasn't found a job, or not seriously looking for one.

If she's managed 3 service stations, she should be able to find something in management.

I think the reason she hasn't really looked for a job is that she's enjoying being a SAHM for the first time in years - the man she lives with has not held a steady job since 1998 (don't EVEN get me started...!) but for the last 9-10 months he's been steadily employed. He makes just about enough to pay all the basic bills like mortgage and utilities, but there's barely anything left after that.

Anyhow, I think she's enjoying not working, but feels really guilty about it and complaining about it somehow assuages her guilty feelings. She's also been somewhat depressed, which makes getting motivated a lot harder. I've been way supportive & encouraging (as have other friends), but I'm backing off because whatever impetus has to come from her, when it comes down to it.

Talley Sue, excellent - that is pretty much the response I'm going to give if she brings up being broke/not having a job again! She probably won't, though - we chatted a couple of days ago and she made absolutely no mention of finances, which is unusual for her.
Oh well. Her man is supposed to get a promotion & pay raise in a couple of months, that should make her life a bit easier, assuming he actully sticks with this job!

***Anyhow, I think she's enjoying not working, but feels really guilty about it and complaining about it somehow assuages her guilty feelings.***

Carina, I bet that's exactly it. And, channeling all of her complaints into the job situation means that she can avoid dealing with other aspects of her life.

The lastest with my co-worker is that she might be interested in golf. She was pumping someone else in the office who is a serious golf fiend for information about lessons, equipment and so on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't golf not a cheap hobby?

I should just block my ears. (I couldn't just leave the room to get a glass of water, which was my first thought. The golf discussion went on for a good half hour.)

It was all I could do to keep from channeling my Yankee grandfather and yelling, "You need something else in your life that costs money like you need a hole in the head!"

Hi all,

When I cosidered the title of this thread, I had a two-word thought for a reply,

"Duct tape".

Good wishes for wisdom (and the level of diplomacy that seems indicated) in dealing with ticklish situations, all.

ole joyful

Can you listen to the radio at work? Maybe tune it to the Dr. Laura show for a few days and then mention some things you heard ... I don't agree with a lot of Dr. Laura's ideas, but she does have some good practical advice, such as "don't marry (or get involved with)a man who isn't responsible and doesn't want to work," and "don't spend a lot of money on a wedding if you can't afford to pay cash," and other such advice.

I think she has a book out too, title is "Stupid Things Women Do to Mess up Their Lives" and it would probably cover a lot of what this woman is complaining about. Maybe get a copy at the used book store and leave it on your desk for her to notice ...

Good luck!
Minet

Well, golf isn't a cheap hobby, especially if you're going to take lessons and buy all new equipment!

I don't see the harm in saying something like "Well, I hear you complain that you are concerned about your financial situation - maybe you should postpone unecessary expenses until you take care of some of your debt." Say it in public - I bet you'll get some silent cheers from your co-workers!

Greetings, all,

Has anyone heard of a book called, "Stupid Things that Men Do to Mess Up Their Lives"?

I think that we should ask for equal time.

Actually - maybe we could put such a book together, ourselves.

Anyone want to contribute?

ole joyful

joyful guy - Dr Laura beat you to it. Here's a link:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060173084/qid=1084981474/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/102-0042907-7132972?v=glance&s=books

Clipped from the review:
"Stupid Machismo ...
Stupid Heroism ...
Stupid Parenting ...
Stupid Matrimony ...
And six other stupid types of behavior."

Dang ...

... cut off at the pass with another seemingly good idea!

Oh, well.

joyful guy