A will DOES need to be probated. A trust does not.

If one of you outlives the other, you will still have to grapple with the issues of your children.

Please look for affordable legal help. A thousand dollars now to set up a trust? Or 10.000 after you go for probate expenses?

Talk to your kids. Find out approximately what the property is worth (ask a local realtor) and divide 4 ways. Then present the issue to the kids.

Good for you to think about it ahead of time..

If they do not have the money to hire someone to do a will do you really think they could afford the cost's of setting up a trust????

Most probate costs are a % of estate, any executor fees %, can be waived, and in some states an attorney must be hired.

Do talk to your children. Although your husband is covered by VA you are not. Unless you go to live with your children the property may need to be used for your care. You could transfer property to children but if any of them would have a financial problem, such as a car accident leading to a judgment, the judgment could take the property. Transferring can create more problems.

VA allows burial of spouse and others in the same site. Mother in law passed first, non-vet. Father in law passed later and was placed on top of her coffin. Both names are on the tombstone.

No, I understand the costs, but the assumption that a will avoids probate can cause problems later on, because it does not.

Thank you all for your comments.

sushipup:
First I did not know about non-Vet burials. I will look into this. My ashes may be happy.
$1,000 is .... well together we get $1300.00 a month in Social Security. So $1,000 is sort of out of our reach at least until we get that amount saved up. That's why we were doing our own wills. We can't afford the lawyer fee for wills either.
maifleur:
We were not considering a trust. We would still need a will with that anyway. I just knew that joint tenancy with suvivorship on real- estate property in WV does not go through probate. Our deed is set up that way. So which ever one of us passes first the other automatically owns the property. I thought we could set it up the same way for the kids. I never though about judgement issues should we put the same in a will for our kids.

We knew the will (s) itself will be probated but our home and bank account does not. The bank account will have a TOD to our daughter which she can use pay taxes and such until the other things (car, tractor and such) are out of probate. Those are the things that will be sold and pay for any bills. And what's left will go to the kids evenly.

...go to live with your children- heaven forbid. It took awhile to get them all out of the house. :) I would not want to ever have to do this even though we love them dearly. They don't like my chili :)

So if any of you were in our position would you just have the place put on the market and evenly split? What would you all do?

By the way, MM has to finish his other outbuilding before he expires, along with building me a pantry. So he is going to be here for a long time. The pantry has been planned for 8 years (he's slow a bit slow sometimes). And he likes my chili. So I plan to be here to feed him. We were just wanting to have a plan. He is 73 and I am 64 (I had to retire early because I hurt my back). We have been together 45 years.

And an added note: Should MM pass before me the property goes to me. At this time should I need medical care I can sell the property. I feel that will take care of health issues until money runs out.

My concern was how to handle the property if we both die at the same time or say if only one of us was left. I may not be explaining any of this properly. I am still doing research. karen

I think you have done a very good job of researching this.

Pick two options and present both to your children: 1) Property left to all the kids equally. If anyone wants it, they can buy the others out or 2) property to be sold and proceeds divided equally.

See what they say. But don't give them open-ended questions. Choose two options and narrow it down for them.

I believe that joint tenancy w/survivorship can be tricky to sell later as it can trigger a capital gains penalty. You only get a step-up basis on half the asset, not the entire asset as you would without the survivorship option.

Now, this may not matter to you depending on the value of the asset. BUT if it does, then as an example, if you survive your spouse and then need to sell the house to finance your own eldercare, you may find yourself with an IRS issue.

If you are under the poverty level in your state, please contact your local Legal Aid agency. You can get help, and you need to discuss your options with someone who knows your state laws. We don't, and an anonymous public forum isn't really the place for personalized legal advice.

Thank you. I really wasn't asking for legal advice per-say. I know this isn't the place for such questions. I was just wondering what others did when faced with a question I had. I was just trying to get a general grasp on things.

You all have given us some things to thinks about. karen

First, I do suggest that you work towards having a real lawyer draw up wills for you. We had ours done through the State Employees Credit Union, and it was only $250. Look around and see what SIMPLE forms would cost.

The lawyer who did ours asked SO MANY QUESTIONS that got us thinking, prompted the right discussions, and we feel secure in our choices now. For example, suppose one of your children pre-deceases you. Would you then split your estate 3 ways, or would you still split it 4 ways ... and divide the fourth "portion" among that deceased child's children? Would the monk son WANT to inherit, or would he rather see his portion divided among his nieces and nephews, perhaps to be put towards their educations? What if one of your children comes to live with you in your elderly years? Would you want to give that child a larger portion of the estate as a thank you for the time and effort he gave you in your final years? These aren't easy questions, and you want to KNOW that your wishes are followed.

You can BOTH be buried in the Veteran's cemetery without charge. My father-in-law was military, so a plot is reserved for him. His wife died first, and she was buried 12' down. When he dies, he'll be buried 6' down.

You're legally married, right? Yes, if one of you were to die, the other would automatically own everything.

You can /should make your kids (or one kid named as executor) beneficiary on your bank accounts. Even if the accounts are small, you want them to have your money (not the state!). Beneficiary trumps will. If you died tomorrow, the person who's named beneficiary on your checking and savings accounts could walk into the bank (with your death certificate) and leave with every penny in the accounts -- before the will goes into probate.

If one of you were to die, leaving the other alone, would that spouse want to remain on the property? I ask because my parents live in similar circumstances, and I strongly suspect my mom will "come to the city" to be nearer us kids/grandkids and nearer to services she uses ... after my stepfather is gone (which is the likely scenario, given the state of their health).

The tricky thing is, What happens when the second spouse dies? I do think you should talk to the children and see if any of them are interested in the land ... or would they prefer to see it sold /split the profits?

You should also consider a "back up plan" in case one or both of you cannot continue to live on your property. That is, if one or both of you need medical care that isn't compatible with your current lifestyle.

I don't know if you've considered this possibility, but I think this is your nightmare scenario: You're living frugally but comfortably now on your land. Suppose one of you becomes ill and needs serious care, even nursing home care. The state'll pay for that person's care, but not until you've sold the land and exhausted your resources. Where is the the still-health spouse going to live? The state doesn't care. To prevent this relatively likely thing from happening, could you put the land into one of the children's names now? That isn't a risk-free choice, of course, as it gives them power over your lives; if their children are eligible for financial aid for college, it could affect them too.

As for the two of you dying at the same time, it's very unlikely to happen. Even if you were to be in a car wreck, the likelihood is that one of you would go first. Even if one of you lives an hour longer than the other, that person still predeceases the other.

Consider, too, writing a letter to your children -- be sure they know where it's kept -- that'll let them know your final wishes. Ours includes a note about being fair and generous with one another during this time, remembering their faith, and then notes about how I'd like them to divide things that we value -- but don't really have much value -- like my wedding ring, my husband's tools, my grandmother's china, and certain pieces of furniture. Of course this isn't a legal document, but it's something you can easily change and update as time goes on. My husband and I have "a rule" we go over our estate information and the letter to our girls every year when we do our taxes. It works because money is already on our minds.

If you want it to go to your 4 children without a will, check with your state to see if there is an option to TOD (transfer on death). If there is put all 4 names on it and take it to the court house so it can be put on the deed. They cannot get it without a death certificate. It could be sold and the money divided or one could buy out the others. You can also put POD on any money you have, again with all four names on it. You can do that at the bank, they will need a death certificate. Also check and see if a personal will can be made, witnessed and signed by a notary in your state for the contents of the home and money in the checking account.

Please keep in mind the will would need to be in the hands of someone you trust. If you have things you want to give to certain kids, give it now because the first one in the home after your death can take any thing they want. Not legally, but the one that was suppose to have it will have to take the sibling to court to get it back. I personally would give them the things they want and order everything else. Money can be divided without hard feelings, things cannot.

We did not make any arrangements because it was set up like yours, right of survivor-ship. When my husband died it was mine, now it goes to my heir with TOD and POD and a small will for contents and anything else I accumulate. An estate lawyer did that for me, I live in the state of Kansas, other states may be different.

You do actually have property, even if not much. I'd bring in the services of someone in the field, and you won't have to pay him that much for a good basic will. Some of those one-page online forms aren't worth peanuts if something goes awry.

Not sure what caused me to look here, but don't even consider a trust. I just finished administering one a lawyer convinced my dad to set up. He didn't have nearly enough to make it beneficial for anyone other than the lawyer who drew it up and then his firm in handling most of the administration. It took more money and a lot more time - was far more complicated than it needed to be.

Wills and probate laws vary by state. You need to talk to a lawyer in your state to make sure you get what you want. Generally speaking, if your children get along and agree that one should keep the property and buy out the others, a will giving them each an equal interest of the proceeds would not prevent that. The one who wants the place can be the buyer. In a rural area, you might get a will for as little as $100-150 and the second one following the same terms might be less than the first. At least make some inquiries. Assuming you can't afford any advice could be the worst advice and cost you (or them) more in the long run.