How depressing, in so many ways!

Wow, that is sad but housing where we live is sad too, only for a different reason.

Where we are you can get a 3200 sf home with higher end finishes on five wooded acres for the same amount of money. The sad part is that just a few years ago homes were worth so much more.

The Most Expensive residential listing (A large Tudor Revival house in great condition with a nice yard) where I grew up is less than this, excluding a couple large working horse farms.

Wow, that is sad. In my area, $450K buys 3000-4000 square feet of traditional brick ranch or two-story home with large well-maintained yards, inground pool, detached garage, and the best schools in town--walking distance from shopping and restaurants.

In the posh-er neighborhoods, the price will get you a well-maintained smaller granny house with a lot of wallpaper you'll want to take out. In my neighborhood, it will buy an up-to-date larger house with a pool and a mother-in-law apartment over the garage, on a quiet street and a half-acre plus yard, with a five minute drive to shopping and restaurants.

Pretty glad not to live in Philly any more!

that house is 450K? OMG my house would be a mansion and its an old 1969 ranch! If that is 450K then mine would be a million! Please tell me WHY people choose to live in crazy areas like this! Why do they do that?? It seems well...... (ok I will BE politically incorrect) FRICKIN RETARDED. That just seems utterly crazy to me.

I looked at the photos and my initial thought was - that's $460,000?

As someone who is benefiting from Pal's assessment "Our market is depressed but only mildly" I found it reassuring that the homeowners of that property were asking $460.

I live in one of the tonier suburbs of Philly with an outstanding school system and feel ever so fortunate that our property values have been relatively stable. We've been here for nearly 30 years and will probably put our much loved home on the market within 5 years. We've been able to add on, remodel and upgrade our home over the years without worrying that we'll never get our money out of it.

However I do have 2 adult children renting in the city and they complain about the high rents. My DD is in a tiny studio in South Philly and she's paying $700 for one room - no AC, no dishwasher, no yard. She's looking for a nicer place but rental units are in high demand. Her landlord told her her that his units are rented within a week or two of listing.

DH and I are even considering buying a property in the city with 2 or 3 apartments and renting it to our kids.

maire-cat, Not sure where you are, but when we listed our house in Chester County last fall, there was an article in the Inquirer shortly after about housing prices. The nearby school district (U-CF) was noted as an area where the prices were still INCREASING for homes. Ours was listed much lower than it would have been 2 years earlier, and these were still increasing.

Needless to say, we bought in the best school district in the new location, even though we don't have school aged children.

And as always, I still cannot believe realtors use photos like this for their listing. Why is there a white dot in the shower Pal? Please tell me there is not someone in there...

I bought in a zipcode that had increasing housing prices even in 2008-2009, just not dramatic ones. The other difference now is houses are not getting multiple competitive bids, and they are sitting longer.

I would recommend buying a house as a rental property if you don't mind being a landlord. The house rental market is very strong. I am only a landlord by default, I would rather be living there, but I literally had a renter before I officially owned the property and they moved in within 10 days. They are decent tenants but I don't really like being a landlord.

The white dots both cover things and are random. No one was in the shower. But I have seen listings like this (piles of stuff) with people on the sofa, faces turned away, etc.

"Please tell me there is not someone in there..." LOL, Bee! And yes, school district desirability is huge when assessing value!

Frankly, I can't even entertain thoughts about the value of this property! The filth, clutter and utter and complete disregard for any sort of order or care-taking is too distracting. These images scream, "I don't care!" Turn down the volume, we hear you!

I thought the same thing, Bee. The overall mess/decor, which isn't too awful (but sort of is), but to use for a listing pic?

I also think that this house is price slightly Low because of condition (the $/sq.ft. seems low even for the area). Also the way the listing is stated, it sounds as if the price already accounts for condition issues so they can't be used as bargaining tools.

Lets not forget, just because it's listed for 460,000 doesn't mean that's what someone will actually pay for it. Sales price is really what determines value not list price. How long it has been on the market and relisted over and over again can be a good indication as to if it's over listed or not.

I also don't know if the same is true for the urban area you are in, but many areas in the country are experiencing a large divide between the prices in fair market listings like the one you've posted and the actual price once they close.

I think in this zip the analysis is something like 7% less overall so this house which is listed for $469K actually, would *typically go for about $436K. It's new on the market and I couldn't find evidence that this is one of those properties that is "new on the market" a couple times a year.

There are so many variables of course that one can't predict for an individual property. There are properties on the market for days and for Years, sitting side by side.

I bought a house that had a competing offer. I was one of FIVE competing offers on a house near that one, which had an over asking offer and a full cash offer among them, and the condition was pretty awful (but the price was good). I offered on a house, was turned down without a counter, and that house has Never sold (although the seller was unusual).

Mostly though I just wanted to illustrate that $400K+ here is not a house that is particularly special, even in this market. I will be interested to watch this one and see what happens.

Here's a comparable house in the Stoke Newington area of London. Except that it's not 7 years old; it's more like 130 years old, in need of renovation. And it's listed for UK� 649 999, which is close to $1 million US.

Here is a link that might be useful: Listria Park Victorian for sale

Cities with intact single-family historic urban housing stock (or even the infill that goes along with it) are always going to present a glitch in the "what you get for the money" analysis that seems to entice and grip the suburban masses. The Boston-Philly-NYC-DC-Chicago-SanFrancisco experience is just different than the other 98% of the country. And I'll even throw in a second tier of Baltimore-St.Louis-Louisville-Richmond-Charleston-Savannah-Seattle if we're talking about the row-house, or attached/semi-detached housing of the 19th and 18th centuries, or even earlier. Outside of those cities and their spheres of influence, there just really isn't anything to compare.

The rest of us deal in the realm of square feet, commuting distance and school systems . . . dear heaven, the SCHOOL SYSTEMS!

Which is why this is $120,000:

And this is $1,095,000:

They are about 8 miles apart, with the first one having a slightly easier commute into downtown.

"The Boston-Philly-NYC-DC-Chicago-SanFrancisco experience is just different than the other 98% of the country." Yes indeed, Jakabedy!

And, I could also make ONE of the same points that Pal did about real estate in my very uncosmopolitan locale that is squarely in the 98%: "$400K+ here is not a house that is particularly special, even in this market."

I look at the listings daily, and haven't seen one house for sale in my city in the current market, in the $400,000s, that is anything "special." Will say they are cleaner, neater, and better cared for than the house in the "featured home" pics, but they are not fine examples of 20th century architecture by any means; and that's for sure. We're a much smaller metro area, but still not a lot of bang for the buck here either!

In my area, which is not a major city and a little over 60miles from new york city, 450k gets you a 1100 to 1700sq ft "starter home" or, as is, sadly, often the case, a tear down house purchased solely for the land if it has Sound views. I do understand the concept of wanting to spend more for a convenient location and, I unlike Cindy, prefer to live in a more expensive area if it is closer to great schools, businesses, beaches, culture, shopping, dining and public transportation. These advantages outweigh the cost and size of the home in my opinion and I often wonder how others prefer a less expensive location with a bigger house over the quality of life I find living in the center of a village.However, although I do not understand other people's choices ,I in no way believe their mental capacities are diminished because they choose to live differently than I.

Location, location, location.

Here's a beauty in SF for $519,900.

Here is a link that might be useful: rat trap

Here's a beauty for sale in my fair city. Of course, as clearly stated the value is in the land; all .10 of an acre!

Here is a link that might be useful: Darling little gem priced to sell at $450,000

And in my city, in the most desireable suburb, also for $519,900 (same price as francy's rat trap). At 3/2 it is small, and a bit pricy for its size, even in that location. But . . .

Here is a link that might be useful: Home featured in House Beautiful

I've long thought the price of housing was all about the availability of high paying jobs. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

It's even true in the microcosm. I lived in a suburb of Detroit (beautiful historic homes in detroit are extremely affordable) where there was a large concentration of highly paid people, and the home prices were high. Even though they urb of which the area was a sub was virtually unusable.

Chicago is the city that works, and the prices hold pretty well, rust belt notwithstanding.

Housing prices are mostly still about the ability of people to pay on credit out of current income. Someday that may change. If we start buying houses with cash, the demographics and prices will look very different, I think.

We may be approaching a time when the house is no longer the retirement investment, the savings account, the means of moving up. There are fewer unoccupied rental units and the rents are going up.

That's truly a gem, Jakabedy! I've decided that the best real estate values, and some of the most beautiful real estate in the country, is located in Georgia and Alabama. Lucky you!

Chicago seems to be a pretty well-priced city from what I've seen, Jamies. Seems you get a lot for the money, given that you're in or near one of the most exciting cities in the nation. Chicago is so CLEAN for a big city too!

Francy's San Francisco house has more square feet than the VA Beach house I posted. It's also probably salvagable. San Francisco would be an amazing place to live too! I know it's pricey, but it's SF...perfect weather all year & so much culture, beauty and fun!

OMG Stinky. They wouldn't even show the inside of that house. I knew it was pricey there but didn't know it rivaled LA and SF.

We just got back from San Francisco this morning, and WOW to all the awesome homes but I realize there are many like francy posted. On the tour we did most Victorians go for about $1million per floor according to the guide, at least in the areas where we toured (Cow Hollow/Pacific Heights). Truly our dream homes!

stinky-gardener- that house is AWFUL, but the neighborhood is great and the property is good! There was a recent article in the SF Chronicle detailing all of the newly minted dot.commers moving into this neighborhood. A primo zip code (close to Noe Valley, great weather, and one of the only places in the City with freeway access); they are just ripping these places down and rebuilding! That place may just be a bargain.

Here's what you can get here in a desirable neighborhood for $495K.

Here is a link that might be useful: Carolinas

Francy, the closer the land is to that strip of sand attached to the Atlantic Ocean, the pricier the real estate. There's a finite amount of land located near the water. That will never change, of course! Supply and demand! Certainly, there are some beautiful, big houses right on the ocean that sell for millions. (With homeowner's & flood insurance bills to match.)

All the coastal cities experience an ongoing demand for waterfront properties, I'm sure. Water does make property recession proof! The demand will never cease. This is a dream for so many...to live on the water, and people will pay handsomely for the privilege.

Gosh, during the boom, houses were quickly selling for thousands more than the already inflated asking prices. There were intense bidding wars, and real estate agents were getting contracts signed after one showing. It was crazy. Still is, but to a lesser extent.

Though VA Beach has the highest selling prices in the 7 city area, we have the lowest property taxes! The city in our area that has the lowest prices on houses and the absolute worst schools & most crime, has the highest property taxes!

Such a pathetic looking house for almost a half million bucks!

Real estate is not off the wall in TX either, at least not in Austin, and the lot itself is not the size of a postage stame. Circle C is also considered a 'high-end' neighborhood. Here's what $460K will get ya.....

Here is a link that might be useful: Austin, TX

Here is one I drive by every day. It's pretty awesome! I am gobsmacked over the teeny properties going for the same price in other areas of the country.

I tried to look up the architect Robert Carpenter but had no luck. If anyone knows who is is, please let me know. I'm curious now and inquiring minds....

Here is a link that might be useful: 1959 contemporary

There are fewer unoccupied rental units and the rents are going up.

Rents always go up when the housing market is down, it typically runs on a 7 year cycle though this cycle is obviously going to last much longer. But the higher rents and low availability of units is normal under the circumstances. It's all about supply and demand and with so many people now out of the housing market, demand for rentals is just very high.

deedee, no way!! I used to live in the Oswego area, Boulder Hill to be exact. DH worked at CAT. I visit a friend in Pontiac, IL every year. Went to the '3 French Hens' antique/flea market last year and was very disappointed. Ever hear of it? ;o)

I meant francypants about the SF house, not stinky gardener. Sorry! I know nothing about the other area.

@Patty cakes - In Austin, Circle C is middle class, definitely not high-end. High end is Old Enfield, Pemberton, Tarrytown, parts of Westlake.

...a quick interruption to the thread...

Hey patty_cakes! I've heard of 3 French Hens out in Morris, IL but never had the pleasure. My dm and one of my db's live in Boulder Hill. Dm born in Oswego. You're the first gw member I've 'met' who knows my stomping grounds. Howdy (previous) neighbor!

Gscienchick, all those houses are gorgeous. You get a lot for the money. That's another state I should have added to the "great real estate deals" list along with GA & AL. Charlotte is a nice city, and Greensboro is intriguing too.

Most of these homes are newer, but there are definitely a lot of older homes with character, too.

Jana, oops, you're quite right~~CC is no comparison to Westlake. Although I might add, it is a very NICE middle class neighborhood. Coming from CA, the house I posted would be over $1 mil. probably closer to $1 1/2 mil w/property.

deedee, it's been a lot of years! Yes, it *was* Morris, and I remember what a scorching hot day it was. Austin is hot, but humidity is not as bad as it is/was there.

The picture of the house you posted looks fairly familiar~~where exactly is it?

Is Foxy's still in Oswego? I used to love the tenderloins! These days you can't get them anywhere. I'm originally from Ottawa, and know of a place in Streator that still has them, but that's about it. When I visit my BFF, i'm sure we'll be making the trek or our 'annual tenderloin'.

Good to 'meet' someone from the same area who knows familiar places!! ;o)

I am always so shocked when people list a house and don't clean it first!

It (generally) makes a significant impact to the price the home ultimately achieves. I know if I were offered $10,000 to make my bed consistently for 60 days, or tidy up my living room I would jump at the chance!
I find a messy house can affect pricing far more than that even.

Maybe the house is rented and it's tenant mess, not owner mess?

I'm guessing this house is in Grad Hospital or Bella Vista or a neighborhood like that (am I close?) - and I don't think the pricing is that bad given the proximity of those areas to Center City, but I would only buy that house at a super bargain price because it just screams that it has had no maintanence.

I'd be interested to see what happens with it too! Keep us updated. : )

Hey patty_cakes. The house is about a mile from the Farnsworth House by Mies van der Rohe (the glass house)which went for a cool 7.5 million in 2003.

Not sure about Foxy's....we don't get out much!

It seems the owners don't buy into the theory that staging or even tidying up will help sell a house

In my neighborhood in Atlanta, $450,000 will get you a small 1950s 3/2 ranch that has been well maintained on 1/3 acre lot.

Hoboken, all you say is true, imo! Indeed, if it's very close to Center City, it is reasonably priced. Even if the current owners don't care about being tidy or clean, I agree that one would think they'd be motivated to get that way if to do so translated into dollars and cents.

Not only does the unkempt appearance send the "I don't care" message I mentioned above, but it also makes one wonder what more important maintanence issues have been overlooked out of what appears to be an entrenched pattern of laziness & neglect.

I bet it's a rental. All males.

I was also thinking it was tenant occupied.

On the other hand, we just bought a house from an attorney and a teacher. Pal's house looks positively sparkling compared to our diamond in the rough.