First question...do you want to walk through your kitchen, to get to your main living space? If you are not okay with that...I wouldn't proceed any further.

I know this has been a challenge, but your living room has so many great architectural details. Are you sure you can't make that the dining room/library space? Is there no way to move those basement stairs and make the dining/kitchen area your new kitchen/mudroom?

My other plan (which I know you don't like, but there it is) would be to make the family room the kitchen/family space and the old kitchen the mudroom area. How often do you go shopping and is it that far to haul groceries? I live on a farm and can't even park by the house...so I guess it's all relative :)

Now, if you really are okay losing your lovely living room...I'm sure there are people, who will offer some wonderful ideas. We definitely have a creative group of people, on this forum!

Also, you might want to provide links to your earlier threads. Some people may not have seen them.

Weren't you also trying to add a master bathroom or make the space larger, upstairs? Are you sure you don't want to think about a two story addition (where you have the deck) and just add the space? It would be expensive, but it would solve a lot of challenges, too. And, your home would retain its charm and character, which will definitely be a BIG plus, if you ever sell!

If you did that...you could also add a mudroom on the end, where the kitchen is now...and expand the new kitchen/dining area, across the entire back, and access the family room. That would tie together your 'informal' spaces and the living room could have french doors, into the kitchen. I think then, you'd use that space more, too.

Personally, I'd close off the door to the driveway (half way down the basment stairs) and add a new access out to the backyard (off the new mudroom) and have a gate, to the driveway. As the kids get older, having them 'pop out' in the driveway sounds a bit dangerous, where having a gate to the driveway area sounds much safer. Just an idea :)

Lavender, yes, you are right. I do have a lot of history in here, with our ideas. But right now, I am really just trying to picture the LR as a kitchen with eating area, to replace our dining room, too. Can it be done in this space?

The addition we were considering, where the current deck is, would cost 50% of the cost of our house, which is a lot to swallow. If we can relocate the kitchen, we could consider a single addition over our 1-story family room, of just a master bath and closet, which would be considerably less expensive. So it actually is a viable option.

I tried a layout that could work? But I think I'd have to cover up the fireplace? Right?

I am just not good at reimagining spaces. And layouts are not my thing. I need to see something that works and imitate it.

And the space in the old kitchen? What would I do with that? I added a rear-entry and family foyer/mudroom space. Also a powder room idea, although I think it would need to be bigger. I'd also try to put some pantry space somewhere.

Or something completely different back there? Or maybe a more formal dining area? Or an office? Or???

Here is a link that might be useful: previous post

Home- I don't think your scale is quite right, in the living room/now kitchen. If it's 12'8" across...that dining table is going to be cramped...and don't you have another table, right across the hall?

The fireplace is lovely, but will not fit, with the island and stools. You also have a major walkway, between your only sink and range.

Remind me again...why can't you add straight on to the back of the current kitchen? Wasn't that an option, at one time? Then you could keep your deck and also add to the master bedroom, at the same time?

If you can add on to that space...you could make a kitchen/dining area and maybe even a mudroom. The living room would benefit (IMHO) from changing that back window to patio doors. Since that is your 'main walkway' to the family room, why not treat it as such? Maybe a small sectional/sofa with lounge end...across from the fireplace, that divides off that walkway, from the rest of the seating area?

So, in your picture above...have the sofa where the range/fridge is, with a chaise end (attached) that would be parallel to the sink wall. Then put french doors, where you have the sink...and a chair and ottoman, by the fireplace (right side) with maybe a window seat, in front of the windows (by the hall)? Then it would still be a bit more of a formal seating area (maybe add a flat screen TV above the fireplace) but I think you'd use it more.
And the family room would be for the kids!

I'd add a bigger addition to the back of the kitchen (then you might have on that first picture?) and get everything you want, in the space. Why pay for an addition, if you don't get the space you want/need, for that extra expense?

Hopefully, someone else will respond with other ideas...but at least this bumps your thread, up a bit :)

LL, thanks for your input. The room is actually 13' across. And that table is exactly the size of the table we eat at 3x/day, in our kitchen.

I do currently have a DR in the room across the hall, but in this reconfig, I would change that area to an adult living room.away room, piano room, library, den-type space. Couch, chairs, bookshelves, piano.

Also, the fireplace in the middle of the room doesn't extend into the room much at all--6 inches. The space I show in front of it is where there is a tile hearth on the floor--the fireplace sits directly on the floor.

I don't think the space along the top of the room would be a main walkway anymore, we could even put in a door to cut down on that. The back area would be extra spaces, not really "living space," I don't think.

I am trying to see if we could avoid doing an addition at all, and still get a kitchen/family room area on the main floor. We do have a rec room/playroom/toyroom space in the finished part of the basement already.

Well, hi again, Home4. I'm glad to hear you're reconsidering developing the space you have to work well. Given your stated lack of need before and now for yet more space, why add? Especially since it would mean destroying the synergy between your great time-proven family hangout on the porch and the rooms opening onto it.

If you move the kitchen, how about trying out the possibility of moving it all the way to the front? Put the breakfast area in the back looking into the back yard. This would eliminate traffic from the work areas and allow the table to be an extension of the busy life of the family room. It'd also give both your dining tables different views and sunshine at different times of the day.

I'm wondering, though, if you have an enjoyment of having others around that would make a very central kitchen a high priority. Normally, funneling all traffic to a family room through the middle of a kitchen would be a problem, but for the right sort of person it could be a way of building in satisfaction that far outweighed the drawbacks.

As for what to do with the old kitchen space, that you ask is a little ominous for success for any use at this time. Your family's needs and desires, however, will almost certainly change a great deal as time goes on, and this might just end up being a very valuable space. Maybe keep it flexible?

It also made me think of Susan Susanka's concept of an "away room," which you might want if you eliminated the living room. Hard to believe, but you may just get tired of your kids when they're teens, and vice versa. If you haven't run across them already, Susanka's books are very inexpensive purchased used on line and full of thoughtful ideas about how to use spaces, why, and how to design a particular space so that it attracts the use you plan for it (btw, she likes kitchens in the middle of the active areas). In any case, an away room is a sitting room where anyone can go relax in peace and quiet while family life rampages on everywhere else. "Away" describes this characteristic; the rooms in her diagrams are usually very close to the center of the house so very accessible for an opportunistic plop and sigh. An away room, of course, has a door that can be closed and benefits from having no through traffic. You could develop it as a library, sun/garden room, sitting room/office, etc. It could also serve whatever function you were imagining for the remainder of the living room if you separated that space into a quiet sitting room and gallery. You could add a fireplace. It could multipurpose by converting to a downstairs bedroom when an elderly relative visited or one of you broke a leg. In any case, if a specific function isn't calling now, you might want to keep that space very flexible in use (undeveloped) until it's obvious to you what it should be. For instance, the door necessary for many functions could be a set of pretty Frenches that could left wide open to invite a crowd in or closed to keep them out.

Hi Home4all! I was hoping you'd update with where you were at after meeting with architects... I went back through the old threads as well - I think you still could have a great kitchen in your current space - I think it just may mean making some small concessions... I'm going to go back to saying that I think the window in the current living room could be french doors out to the deck, like LL said as well, and I would take the door to the deck out of the kitchen. With the powder room moved, that's only a few extra feet out but I think it would make you able to use much more of the kitchen and would help the kitchen feel bigger as opposed to accounting for the walkway out (so sorry - I know I've said this multiple times!). Also, what about making the current dining room your office/adult space and making the living room your dining room? With the walkway from the kitchen to the dining room opened up - would you still need a large eat-in area in the kitchen?

If you can't do the big addition... just another thought - what is your garage situation? It says on one pic that you don't really use that for the cars. I'm wondering if there would be an option where you do a smaller addition off the back of the kitchen that would connect the garage to the house (and make a mudroom there) and make the garage more usable? There are a lot of older homes in my area that have a detached garage... and some of the best renos I have seen have done additions that improve the garage and connect them... it's a great value to have an attached garage in my area because so many homes have detached... not sure how that is in your area. Anyway, just a thought... I know the mudroom has become something in your posts that seems to be moving up the priority list and it could be an interesting route to explore.

Keep chugging! I think you will get there - wherever your kitchen ends up :) Also, if you do consider switching the dining room and "adult room" I wonder if you can try that out now and see how it works? I realize the path is still tough with the powder room, but just a thought.

home4all6,
Do not let anyone talk to you into a certain kind of remodel without first having a real heart to heart talk about budget between you and your DH. This is the most important decision that you need to make first. Then the rest will fall into place.

The housing budget that you create for yourself has an impact on how long you work before retirement, how you save money for college and how you manage your income/savings/spending. There is no real right answer. The housing budget is THE BIGGEST LIFE STYLE decision you and your spouse must make because it is the biggest item in your budget, next to tax. (I pay WAY more taxes than my housing budget!)

Most people have fixed income sine most people cannot increase their income readily. We can't do everything that we want to do with the income that we have. It's all about trade offs.

I tell my colleagues (we have very similar salaries) that the only currency that is limited in our lives is the currency of time. Once the time is gone, you can't have it back.

So if you would rather spend the time that you have left with your family (even though it seems like a long time, it goes fast) and live in a house that you really want/love, then you bite the bullet and remodel with the idea that you have to scrimp elsewhere. If you would rather 'put up' with some inconviniences so that you have time and money to do other things, then you live in a less than ideal home.

Often, the maximum $ amount is fixed for you because of the income. However you arrive at the budget decision, be firm with yourself and your spouse. The last thing you want to do is to become house poor because you put too much into your house!

I wish you the best. I have made decisions over the years to not be house-poor. It has given us a lot of freedom to do other things with our money.

Aokat- I think you're on to something! If the dining room table (as Rosie also suggested) was in the current living room, by french doors to the deck...then would Home need another table in the kitchen? If not, would a big island/table that seated six work, instead? That would keep a seating/prep area in the kitchen and a nice (sometimes formal) separate dining area.

I like the idea of switching the dining and living areas...maybe even having a small seating area in the right corner, by the fireplace? A couple of smaller upholstered chairs make a nice reading area...but can be brought to the dining table, when leaves are added, during the holidays. You'd have room for a big table, in this space :)

If you switched the two front spaces...and the current dining room became the 'adult' living area/away room (nice idea, Rosie) would you NEED that door, back to the kitchen? If not...that would give you a larger area for the powder room! Maybe combine that area with the little powder room you show by the stairs and have enough room for a swinging door, rather than a pocket door. That always seems more private, especially in a high traffic zone, IMHO.

So, what do you think? Lovely dining room, with fireplace...keeping the french doors on each side of the entry, with the others opening to your 'away' room and a wonderful kitchen with big island. You still have the family room (with easy access through the dining room...and don't forget some doors to the deck!

Reconfiguring, moving the powder room and the utilities for the kitchen, changing windows, taking out walls and building other ones - seems like costs could add up to be about as much as doing an addition without giving you any extra area.

On the other hand, I like having the kitchen near the family room - being able to be in touch with people in the family room while working in the kitchen and the plan is good from that point of view.

Instead of having openings on either side of the kitchen, could the laundry room be moved to the mud room area so that access from the front hall to the family room can go through that area (near the kitchen table)? The opening between the fireplace and the back wall could be closed off allowing an L shaped kitchen configuration (or a U if you also leave the existing wall on the other side). That tightens up the kitchen area instead of having the range so far from the sink. You might just do lowers on the wall between the family room and kitchen and leave the top open as a pass through so that there is a visual connection between the family room and kitchen.

Or move the laundry room and full bath back to where the kitchen is now and put the kitchen where they are so you have a kitchen/family room. The current living room becomes the dining room plus a sitting area and the dining room becomes your "away room" or quiet more isolated sitting area. (I haven't figured out where a powder room fits into that.)

Hi Home4all - I was playing around with your layout, but I was wondering if you had a layout of your current space (stairs to the basement as they are, etc) but with your powder room switched over by the central stairs so the walkway to the current LR is opened up?

Hi, home4all6.. the people posting that moving a kitchen is very expensive are right. We are in the midst of doing it mostly DIY. It's obviously less expensive that way, but as we are paying as we go it sure doesn't feel like it :)

My kitchen is not done, but it's working. I will say that I love it and if we hadn't done it, we would have had to move. Should you run the numbers and decide that moving the kitchen works financially, I like the layout posted at 18:01, with a few tweaks:

Preliminary note: you do not have space for an island with seating. You have space for an island without seating, or a counter-height table.
12'8" = 152"
-25.5 range wall (24" deep cabinets + counter overhang)
-42" aisle (I wouldn't reduce this aisle, and might make it bigger, because then you'd be in danger of not being able to ever pull your fridge back out for repair or replacement)
-25.5" island (24" cabinets + 1.5" overhang on left + 15" seating overhang on right)
=44" aisle in front of the fireplace - that's barely enough room for traffic, plus you have the fireplace there!

-If you go for a 30" deep counter height table, you get a 54.5" aisle in front of the fireplace. You lose the option of a prep sink.

-If you choose a cabinetry-only island (24" deep cabinets + 1.5" counter overhang on each side=27"), you get a 57.5" aisle in front of the fireplace, which is much better. Put a prep sink in this island.

-Remove the french doors from the hallway, or at least go down to one french door. If you go with a counter-height table, put in an 8" or 12" deep pantry in place of the doors to make up for the loss of island storage.

You are making some trade-offs here but I think you will end up with a very nice kitchen.

You know, if that bathroom could be moved back a bit, in Bmore's plan (so that there was easier access from the kitchen to the dining room) it wouldn't be that difficult to get groceries, to the kitchen. Up the stairs, across the back hall, between the dining table and (I'd add french doors to the deck) and into the family room. Groceries could be set down on the island and then, put away.

I would add a big window in the kitchen and put the sink, in between the fridge and range, with a prep sink on the island. Maybe even switch the range and fridge area and put the pantry closer to the dining area. There would still be lots of seating in the family area and your study/sitting area could also be a guest room, if you added a sleeper/sofa :)

I'm having a hard time getting past covering up that beautiful wall with the large window to the back and the inset bookcases, but unless someone comes up with a better idea, I think in terms of functionality, unless you would give up the fireplace and island to move that wall of cabinets to the fireplace wall (which I don't necessarily think is a better idea), it seems to me that your plan has the best location for the kitchen.

As you've drawn it (3rd layout), I might flip the fireplace to face the family room. I'd take the laundry and bath out of the family room and put them back where the former kitchen was with the new mudroom. Make a double French door entrance into the family room to the right of the existing fireplace, with the doors opening into the former laundry against shelves that are about 2-1/2' long. I'd figure out what size you want the kitchen table area, get rid of the cabinet to the left of the range, and line the end of those cabinets up with the end of the island. I would end the bank of cabinets along the back window wall on the left end with a short ~2+' wall that lines up with the wall behind where you have the fridge & range.

I'd definitely make the old dining room a study/living room or future first floor bedroom, if needed, maybe using the area under the foyer stairs to make a closet that opens into the new possible future bedroom.

I haven't read your other threads, so don't know what your needs are for a formal dining room, although it looks like a formal house. I would want to have a second full sized eating table in the family room, maybe in front of sliding French doors to the back deck? As long as I can seat 16-20 people at 2 tables, I'm happy, and don't need a formal DR, but YMMV. I really think getting the laundry and bath back by what I assume is the entrance from where your car would be parked is the best for function. But now you would have to figure out how to group 2 or 3 seating areas in the very large family room. I really like being able to open up the front of that room for traffic flow, since I personally don't like dead-end rooms.

Sorry I can't draw this up, but since you've had such difficulty with this plan, I figured if I described it, you could draw it up, tweak it, see if it works, and maybe get another idea from it. You really do have a difficult existing plan to work with, but there is plenty of space, and I would NOT go to the expense of an addition!

Anne

Sorry, that first sentence should say 'easier access from the CURRENT kitchen to the dining room'. That area would make a great laundry/mudroom/craft area!

It seems to me that there are some definite "givens" in pursuing your redesign that need to be followed to stay on track:

--The kitchen is not presently in a good location, and needs to be closer to the family room; putting it IN the FR makes it too far from the other rooms in the house. Therefore, the best location is in the former LR.

--The present LR does not make sense functionally next to the FR; it makes a lot of sense for it to be in the present DR, so it could be used as a study or future BR, so a person can age-in-place if she/he can't do stairs. It makes sense to have a full bath nearby if it should become a BR. A possible first floor bedroom is a good selling point.

--Although you can make a case for the bath and laundry where they are, it's almost always better to have a bath by an entrance door (first stop after getting out of car, kids coming and going from outdoors, etc.), and a laundry sink near where projects can come in from the garage, basement, etc. i.e.--keep the mess in one part of the house.

That's where I started when thinking about how your layout might function best.

One more comment--You could have a very nice formal DR if you follow what I said in my previous post of 11:22 about flipping the fireplace. Then you could put a wall between the new DR and the kitchen, and redo the kitchen area.

Anne

Home- I think someone asked this in an earlier post...but have you considered moving? Your home clearly has a lot of character, but it doesn't seem to fit your lifestyle. Have you thought about using the remodeling money, to try to find a home that suits your growing family...maybe with a little less formal layout?

I only ask, because this come up all the time, on the Remodeling forum. By the time someone makes all the desired improvements, they have put more money into the house, then they might get back, when it sells. And, in your case, turning the living room into a kitchen, will not appeal to most buyers.

Expanding the current kitchen would probably be the most popular choice, with an upstairs master bath addition, at the same time. IMHO, second most popular, would be flipping the living/dining rooms (but keeping the french doors, trim, fireplace, etc.) and moving the kitchen, into the family room space.

Just something to consider, while you're going through options.

Hello to you all and thanks for all your thoughts and ideas! I have been running all over this morning, so I've seen the emails but not any drawings yet. I will take a closer look during nap time (fingers crossed...)

I wish this was a more obvious project, the answers were clearer?

We have thought about moving, but we are very picky and very limited on where we would go, literally a few blocks radius from here. So, the timing would be tricky, not to mention that our kitchen is falling apart, with ripped linoleum floors, too. And then no master suite on the second floor, so it is a tough-er sell...

Ugh! It's all so much! And it's not like this is a horrible house--it's a great house! we love it and the location, and really want to stay right here, but if we are going to re-do the kitchen, then we need to think long-term, so we don't end up taking two steps backward, yada, yada, yada.

Nothing about this house is horrible. It has served us well for over 5 years, as our family grew from 2 kids to 4, and we dealt with all the baby and infant stages. We are through with baby-time, on to the ins and outs of a growing children.

But could it be better? Is there something we aren't seeing b/c we are living here? I love the Susanka books--have read them all from the library. and, we even went to see her model home in Libertyville, which was soooo great! I love the idea of an away room--that's what I was going for in my idea, too, in our current DR space.

I just can't entertain moving the kitchen all the way to the family room space--too far from the driveway/entrance, I think.

I'm still plugging away. Will add more later...

Oh, and I do have this blank layout--just added it. It's our current layout, but powder room tucked under the up-stairs.

I was thinking...the basement under our current kitchen is completely empty storage space. I wonder if we could move the down-stairs there and open up the kitchen/DR connection?

ok--gotta run...son's park district class is over now :)

I'm going to add my voice to the others who are cautioning you that moving the kitchen will be quite costly. Plus, it doesn't solve all your needs. The plan you posted yesterday gets you the better connection to the FR you crave but you're still lacking a master bedroom suite. You need that more than a room without a purpose, which is what you gain with the plan posted yesterday.

I propose two ideas that are a little less out of the box that only require a small, single story addition - in other words, no changes to existing upstairs roof line - at the back of the house that gives you a larger kitchen that connects to family/living room space, a mudroom, a relocated powder room and a master bedroom suite. Cool, huh?

The only differences between Plan A and Plan B are the laundry/mud room, powder room and kitchen lay-out in the space that is the existing kitchen plus addition. Since I can't recall the dimensions of your existing kitchen, the lay-outs for laundry/mud room, powder room and kitchen are fairly rough at this point.

and

First, the similarities:

The existing family room becomes the master bedroom suite, which IIRC, is what you believe the space was designed for initially. The existing laundry room becomes the master bedroom closet. The upstairs room that you are currently using for your master bedroom can become a kids' lounge/media room.

The living room walls come down, replaced with hefty, architectural columns like this:

[

[traditional living room design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-living-room-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_718~s_2107) by other metros general contractor John McDonald Co.

or with columns and built-in bookcases like this:

[

[traditional dining room design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-dining-room-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_722~s_2107) by cincinnati architect Richard Taylor Architects

This gives your center colonial a contemporary twist and provides the connection to the kitchen that you crave. I replaced the LR windows with double French doors. The built-ins are unaffected. IIRC, you wanted to keep them if you could. I know many of us here thought they were a great feature of your home. Oh, the other thing is that with only a single door to the master bedroom, pushed towards the back of the house, your fireplace looks more centered in the room than it is now.

I eliminated the closet near the DR, widened the DR entry and added double French doors, replicating its entry near the front door. This gives you a more gracious entry between kitchen and DR, providing a better connection and allowing more light to pass from one room to the other.

Okay, now the differences.

Plan A has a laundry/mud room lay-out somewhat similar to how you planned it in your post on Monday. This creates a long, narrowish kitchen that runs front to back. You may have room for seating along the long side of the island (wish I could recall your existing kitchen's dimensions). If not, you may be able to curve the end of the island to add a few seats there. The existing patio door stays where it is.

Plan B turns this idea 90 degrees, running the laundry/mud room and powder room along the width of the addition. Notice the kitchen has no corner cabinets and the seating is closer to the opened up LR. The patio door shifts down towards the LR, directly in and out traffic away from the cooking zone.

My two cents' worth: I like Plan B better.

Ok - so I went back to just trying to update your kitchen without adding on. I still like the idea of switching the DR with the LR and making the old DR your adult room. I also like switching the powder room to open the walkway up (although I didn't get the powder room on one of these). Both of these have an island with seating (the squares are posts and circles are stools) and not a table - and i just did these in microsoft paint so I can't confirm dimensions or walkways... The first plan keeps the sink and range in similar spots to where they are now which may keep the $ down. I put a bench where the fridge used to be and you could do hooks over that for a smaller mudroom-type space (I have some inspiration photos of that sort of space if you like). I made the closet into the now "adult room" a desk/hutch space for your mail/kids school papers/etc. I think if you want a real mudroom space without moving the kitchen I agree with lisa that you'll need a small addition. Also - these were quick mock-ups - there would be some need to address windows/upper cabs etc.

One other thing I didn't draw up, but someone else pointed out was that bumpouts are not as costly as additions. If you really want an eat-in table, I'm wondering if you could go back to considering a banquette option and doing a bay-window-type bumpout to get that in there... just a thought.

Anyway, here are the layouts I played around with. You may have already considering something similar and veto-ed them for one reason or another... but maybe it helps.

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Home- I asked you if you could move the basement stairs, in the very first response, to this post! LOL

I know it gets confusing, with so many options. I'd recommend a layout, with the proposed addition (you had sketched in the initial post) and add the upstairs addition, at the same time. I don't think building straight out the back will be as expensive as you might think. A two story addition would solve a lot of your issues...and let you keep the nicer, traditional features, of your home.

As for the kitchen being so far from the family room...what if you added a flat screen TV to the living room and make that more of a family space? Then add french doors, between the living and family room. When you entertain, the kids can be in the family room (with their own bathroom) but you can entertain in the living room. The rest of the time, the kids would be closer to the kitchen, so you can keep an eye on what's going on.

With modern fabrics, you should be able to have a nice looking room that is still practical and easy to clean. Just another idea :)

Here is a kitchen that wraps near the fireplace that I found while perusing This Old House's site.

I have to admit, though, that I'm intrigued with some of the layouts that are drawn above that don't require using your LR for the kitchen.

I'm wondering too if you've thought about using the DR as the kitchen?

I meant to reply to this a while back, then forgot as it slipped away.

Anyway, thanks so much for your input. I really am going 'round and 'round and 'round on this decision, which I guess is the way to do it, now...in the planning stage.

I have thoroughly read all of your responses and ideas, and really appreciate the input so much.

bmorepanic, ao_kat and lisa_a, I really appreciate your effort in drawing up new layouts. They give me some better ideas of re-using our space. Lisa, I especially like the idea of opening up our LR with columns, to make it more open to the hallway area. I've saved the ideas in my ideas file.

We're still plugging along, and I'll be back with more questions are we progress.

Have you asked any of your architects/contractors that you're interviewing...if they can remove the living room fireplace? While I love fireplaces, it seems you have or want one in the family room...so taking out that wall might be your best solution, if you want to put the kitchen in the living room.

If you could remove the fireplace wall, you could have the kitchen table by the front window and then layout the kitchen as you did 4/2/12 at 18:01. Without the fireplace, you could have a bigger island with a prep sink...and more room for seating. You could also SEE the family room and the kitchen table, from the work area. Isn't that one of the reasons you want to remodel?

The dining room could be the 'away' room and the kitchen could become the craft/pantry/mudroom area. I'd still have a table there...great for projects and gives you a lovely view of the backyard. It might also be a nice 'time out' room for mom :)

Hello again...

I am still plugging away at this silly old house :)

So I did go see Sarah Susanka last week, and it was really wonderful! I just agree so much with her thoughts, ideas, and suggestions. I came home with a renewed desire to REALLY try to make our current space work for our family, without adding on, at least on the main floor. I am also taking my husband to see her model home this weekend, so he can get a better understanding of some of her ideas--some of it is just a "feeling" you get from being in the space, rather than an idea that shows up on the floorplan, or "map" of the space...

Anyway, my latest idea is to move my driveway entrance door and basement stairs to the back of the house. I see many advantages to doing this:
~ creates a rear entrance/family-foyer space at our primary entrance spot (I was greatly inspired by Mom23E's recent post on this and the ideas people shared...)
~ stairs down to basement here gives up access to an large unused space in our basement, under the kitchen, that used to be a laundry room, so has utility sink. Could be a great mudroom spot--lockers for sports gear, winter gear, school bags, etc.
~ moving the basement access from current location allows me to merge my kitchen/dining rooms, possibly even combining them? I do like having a formal DR, but we don't use it regularly, although we do have big family parties here, so it does get used, and when it does, it's the big table with both leaves in it, so I still need the space, but not an entire room.
~ sliding the kitchen toward the DR also makes the kitchen at an even level with the rest of the house, making it a bit less cut-off than it currently is.
~ I really do not want the basement stairs underneath our UP stairs b/c that will put the stairs right in the middle of our basement finished rec room area. If they instead go down under the current kitchen, it will give us good access to that space under the kitchen, which currently in unused also in part, b/c it is cut-off by the current location of the basement steps.
~I am a little afraid of losing all my light and windows and view of my backyard which I currently have in my kitchen. I can easily watch my little kids playing in the backyard, and I'd like to keep some of that view, if at all possible. But it is not by biggest priority.

So, that leads me to my question? How can I BEST use this space? I'm especially caught up in how to configure the rear-entrance/basement steps/landing/dropzone area. What we currently have is a door at the ground level, then we go up 4 steps into the kitchen. Can I just replicate this in the back? I like it b/c it make sit seems easier to run down to the mudroom or up to the kitchen, as opposed to going up a few steps on the outside, then into the house, but having to go down a full flight of stairs to the mudroom (if that makes sense!) But no matter how we do it, the area where the down stairs are will be dead-space on the main level, for the most part, so that is important to consider.

Anyway, I will put the blank floorplans here, and if anyone has any ideas, suggestions, photos, etc, I would greatly appreciate it. We are meeting with a new architect, who I met at the Susanka workshop last week, so I am hopeful!

Here is the space, blank:

Here was one idea I had, but it doesn't effectively deal with the basement steps. I need help :) I think the kitchen/dining room could be opened up more, combined, but still maintain the space in the DR for a big table. That wall isn't structural so could come out completely.

Is it possible to reconfigure this space in the way I am imagining? It is, right???

Home4, since the stairs would only go down, the air space over could be left totally open, wherever you placed them. In fact, I would strongly recommend it. Chopping up that room into small spaces with limited sunlight and closing off the kitchen from the back yard would be a shame.

Aesthetically, this would add the interest of different levels to the room, and functionally it would open up communication between the kitchen and entry and basement levels. A door could be placed at the basement level for climate control, etc., when desirable.

How exciting! So great that you have a new enthusiasm for the project :)

I just know this new architect will have some wonderful ideas! My advice would be to stay open to any and all suggestions. Don't dismiss anything, until you've had a chance to really think about it and try a few sketches.

Side note...it looks like I'm moving my kitchen to the living room of our farmhouse remodel! LOL Well, technically, it's the living room and back bedroom, but the kitchen/keeping room really works in this space. The problem has always been...where to put everything else. Over on the building forum, I've gotten some really good ideas, so you might try posting over there, too. Summerfield, Renovator, Bevangel, Kirkhall, Athensmom and many others (sorry if I missed you) can provide a lot of ideas and suggestions.

Best of luck with this new phase of the remodel! I'm feeling confident that you're finally going to come up with a way to make this work, without adding on a lot of new space :)

Is there a reason why your steps to the basement can't simply go underneath your front hall stairs? That's the way they are configured in my house and in most CE colonials.

LL, thanks for the encouragement! I probably should check out the building forum--I thought it was more for new construction? Good luck to you as continue your journey :)

Rosie, I think you are right with your idea. I had saved this photo from Houzz awhile back, and I think it could work? But I would have countertop & cabs where they have bookshelves?

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[traditional spaces design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-home-design-ideas-phbr1-bp~s_2107) by san francisco general contractor Dijeau Poage Construction

I worked up a layout using this idea, too. I picture the whole "top" wall to be windows, with an outside entrance at ground level there too. the stairs would go DOWN to the basement, toward the west side of pic, and the ground level landing would extend to the deck side of the room, with 3-4 stairs UP into the kitchen. So, the backside of the peninsula with the sink in it would be raised, and behind it would be open to the basement stairs. Along that wall, facing the door, there could be a few coat hooks , maybe a shelf or 2, but the mudroom would be at the bottom of the stairs, in the basement.

I am also wondering if I should try to do a peninsula between the eating area and the kitchen, so separate the spaces more, but I think it might feel too tight then? The table will be our one and only eating area, aside from any island seating, so I need it to feel connected. (Sarah Susanka raves about the fact that she can sit at her table and get water from the water dispenser on her fridge without getting up! haha!)

I think I will also look into doing some storage under the UPstairs, Pantry-type storage? Accessible on the dining room side or from the backend.

Any thoughts on this basic layout idea? Improvements and suggestions are most welcome!

marcolo, while it is not impossible, it would render our very usable and useful finished rec room useless. The steps would go straight down, right through the middle of the room. Plus, we still have to address the fact that our house sits above ground level, so you need a transition at the entrance. I like having the back door come in at ground level, then go up a few stairs, or down, depending on your need. The down would take us straight to a tiled mudroom, with storage space, as opposed to center stairs taking us down into the middle of a carpeted room.

I guess it's just my preference, and I'm trying to make it work for our needs.

This has possibilities. I applaud your attempts to use the space you have.

Here are some under stair storage ideas from houzz.com

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[traditional entry design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-entryway-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_741~s_2107) by toronto design-build Lipa - Wood & Stone Work

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[modern staircase design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/modern-staircase-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_745~s_2105) by san francisco general contractor Camber Construction

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[spaces design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/home-design-ideas-phbr0-bp~)

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[contemporary living room design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/contemporary-living-room-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_718~s_2103) by boston architect HP Rovinelli Architects

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[eclectic entry design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/eclectic-entryway-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_741~s_2104) by portland maine design-build Knickerbocker Group

You could also recess the fridge into the stairway wall under the tallest portion. This gets the fridge out of view from the front door. If you turn the island 90 degrees, you prevent the island from becoming a barrier island between fridge and range. I think. I would need to draw it out to be sure.

I think you will want to do a partial raised wall behind the sink counter to keep stuff from falling off and onto someone's head below. It also will give you a place to put outlets. See

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[eclectic kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/eclectic-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2104) by seattle design-build Elizabeth P. Lord - Neil Kelly Company

I see three concerns.

One, you've shrunk the dining space quite a bit. Blending the two spaces is fine but I'm not sure I'd make the dining portion as small as you show, especially since this is the only dining space you'll have.

Two, the stairs up to the kitchen from the landing end too close to the deck door. That seems like an opportunity for someone to take a tumble down the stairs. Is there a reason why you're aren't just running the stairs up to the kitchen in line with the basement steps on the other side of the back door landing, similar to what you show in the photo above?

Three, it's a heckuva hike for family and company to use the main floor bathroom.

Oh, wait, 4 concerns. This doesn't address your need for a master bedroom suite. How will you achieve that without an addition or re-purposing the FR for a master bedroom suite?

I'm not too crazy about the way that the sink counter run intersects with the existing bay window....

Thanks, Lisa_a, for all the photos and suggestions. And your concerns, too.

The dining space is quite a bit smaller, but it is all open space, so I don't feel like it would feel too small? It's a fairly empty room as is right now, and we have 2 small pieces of furniture in there along with the table. The table is 6 ft long, 9 ft with the 2 leaves. But that is why I decided against putting in a physical barrier between the kitchen and dining spaces, b/c then I think it would feel much smaller.

As for the stairs/landing area, I really have no idea exactly how much space the stairs/landing would be or needs to be. I think we will have the room to do it in that general area, and will try to sort out the exact dimensions as we progress, I suppose. Your suggestion was my initial idea, too, just not sure if it will fit? Along that same note, I'm not sure if the far west wall, above the stairs, could be useful in some way? Accessible storage from the "dead corner" of the kitchen cabs? I have no idea...but it would be nice to squeeze it out if at all possible, and not too odd :)

Yes, the bathroom is a hike, but it's not a deal breaker. We actually do it all the time right now.

And yes, the master suite is still an issue. We are looking at building it above the existing family room, off of our current master. The architects and builders we have met with have all indicated this should cost considerable less than an addition in another part of the house. If it IS more than we have been told, it might just rolled into a phase 2 type project, down the road a bit.

Oh, and that bay window will be coming out. IT's an ugly old, inoperable window. I just left it there, now, for my own point of reference as I compare the plan to my existing kitchen.

Thanks, Lisa_a, for all the photos and suggestions. And your concerns, too.

The dining space is quite a bit smaller, but it is all open space, so I don't feel like it would feel too small? It's a fairly empty room as is right now, and we have 2 small pieces of furniture in there along with the table. The table is 6 ft long, 9 ft with the 2 leaves. But that is why I decided against putting in a physical barrier between the kitchen and dining spaces, b/c then I think it would feel much smaller.

As for the stairs/landing area, I really have no idea exactly how much space the stairs/landing would be or needs to be. I think we will have the room to do it in that general area, and will try to sort out the exact dimensions as we progress, I suppose. Your suggestion was my initial idea, too, just not sure if it will fit? Along that same note, I'm not sure if the far west wall, above the stairs, could be useful in some way? Accessible storage from the "dead corner" of the kitchen cabs? I have no idea...but it would be nice to squeeze it out if at all possible, and not too odd :)

Yes, the bathroom is a hike, but it's not a deal breaker. We actually do it all the time right now.

And yes, the master suite is still an issue. We are looking at building it above the existing family room, off of our current master. The architects and builders we have met with have all indicated this should cost considerable less than an addition in another part of the house. If it IS more than we have been told, it might just rolled into a phase 2 type project, down the road a bit.

Oh, and that bay window will be coming out. IT's an ugly old, inoperable window. I just left it there, now, for my own point of reference as I compare the plan to my existing kitchen.

Lisa- Great pictures...especially the one with the stone wall and the blue door :)

Home- Remodeling forum is fine, too...but usually not as much traffic. The same people seem to visit both forums, so probably either one will get you helpful comments.

I really like the new kitchen! I agree with Lisa...I'd put a little backplash behind the sink, for outlets and to keep things from getting pushed off and down the stairs. You'll have a great view out those windows, though.

As for the dining space...I would seriously think about moving the dining table to the 'fireplace room' and having a small keeping room/seating area, at the end of the kitchen. You'd have the big island for seating/eating space...and just a few steps to the very pretty dining room...but I'd like a little loveseat and/or a couple of chairs and maybe a comfy ottoman.

Lisa makes a good point about the door to the deck. Since the back of the 'fireplace room' is basically a hallway, between the kitchen and family room...why not put the access to the deck there? French doors would be beautiful or you could have one door and one or two 'glass windows' that look like the other French doors. Just a few ideas :)