I think about styles and my tastes 10 years ago and they have changed from then to now.
about 7 years ago, we bought very expensive, traditional, dining room furniture. We went traditional then because we figured we would keep it "forever" and never outgrow it. While I don't regret the purchase, if I was to make the same purchase today, I would certainly choose differently. Am I running to replace it? No. But I do think about it. My tastes have changed.

Before we started our remodel, one of the things DH and I discussed was longevity. Regardless of what we put into our kitchen, one day it will look dated. That is a fact of life. For us, it was a matter of fusing a contemporary look that will last for as long as we can stretch it. I have a contemporary looking kitchen, but kept some traditional elements. I wanted to LOVE my kitchen now. My tastes and styles will change. I know this. If I don't build the kitchen I love now, I may never really love it.

I agree with research_queen, 100%.

One way that you could determine what you'd love for long time is to recall what you loved 10 years back that you love today?

Also, keeping some elements classic, such as marble countertop, will ensure that your kitchen will never lose its charm.

At the same time, it is true that trends will change and newer stuff will come into the market, but if you love what you have, then you will find yourself liking the newer stuff AND your own space, at the same time! It's happened to me regarding my furniture! I love our dining table (contemporary, danish origin) -- but when I go to Crate'n'Barrel, I find myself drooling over the unfinished Walnut set they have on display!

Do I love it? You bet. Do I hate what I have? No way!!

Just sharing -- what I mean is, you will like newer stuff out there but that will not necessarily make you hate what you have. You will weave memories around it and those things will become all the more special!!

We didn't set out to create the perfect kitchen. We didn't give one single thought to doing anything else in the kitchen for the next 10 years as that is when we both retire and head to someplace cheaper and less crowed. The old kitchen had been in place for over 38 years with the only changes being appliances and maybe wallpaper. Neither one of us care what the next trend is going to be in 5 years or 10 years. We like what we have. Plan on maintaining it and the only change we can conceive of is maybe paint color and window covering or the pendant lights. We are DONE with the kitchen and are now moving on to other areas of the house. My advice to all is to get over your kitchen obsessions once the reno is done and move on to other areas of the house and life. You should not let your kitchen take over your life.

Well said, Johnny153. That is how we are looking at our present reno as well.

What about the environmental impact of wanting to replace things simply because the are no longer fashionable? We wanted to redo our kitchen with high quality, long lasting, functional materials which we could dress up differently from time to time as our taste change. The basic timeless black dress which can be accessorized in many different ways.

When I figured out I was recreating the 40s-70s amalgamation that was my first house's kitchen of 15 years ago, I was at peace.

Lavender, like you, when I started I was all over the map on design. There were SO many possibilities!! And I had a generous budget so a lot of things were within reach. What I found though, is that by investigating anything that took my fancy, and getting samples of everything I really loved, and trying to make them work together, the priorities shook themselves out, and I ended up with something that is as far from bland and neutral as one can get, with a design I know I will never get tired of.

Even though I was desperately in love with some unreasonably expensive floor tile, which would have gone splendidly with the expensive and difficult to get countertop material, they only would have worked with a specific cabinet look. As I started talking to cabinetmakers, I realized that I couldn't get that look in Zero VOC, which was important for my health (I'm vastly allergic to formaldehyde). So then with the beauteous sample of what I could get for doors, I found a tile that look amazing with it. Which put me on a quest for a floor tile that would look good with them, be very non-slip, and reflect a lot of light, all without being faux stone (which would look ridiculous coming off the marble floor in the foyer). And the perfect tile led to the whole line of tiles that became the backsplash in all its colors. Which wouldn't work for the island and BP, which lead to the other materials for them.

It all came together. There isn't anything I'd have done differently. There isn't anything I want to change.

You said For me, the answer seems to be picking very neutral finishes on the most expensive items (no brainer) but leaving some areas easy to change...on purpose! No matter how much I may love my kitchen, the day it's finished, do I really think I won't come up with something even better, at some point?

Are you constantly changing your other rooms? If you're a serial redecorator, you might be right that you need to leave things as changeable as possible. That also means getting panels for your appliances, so you can change them with the season. ;) (Wink meaning joking, but you can restyle the whole room, including appliances, if you have panels. You can change between stainless, copper, wood, blue, toile, etc.)

If this is just because you're currently TKO, as in obsessed, it'll settle down. Really. You just found a layout, and that's not even final. Give yourself time.

Throughout the renovation I chose styles/finishes by asking myself one question, "Of all these cabinets I'm considering, which things represent my "steady state" decor tastes?" That is, I'd ask myself does it look like something I would have swooned over a year ago AND five years ago AND 10 years ago? If the answer was "yes" I figured it would have long-lasting appeal to me, and therefore I would like it as long as I was in the house. There were a lot of styles/finishes I would selected as being my taste for the past year, but not 10 years ago. But even if I go through a mid-life crisis and abandon the style tastes I've had for 10 years, I will still be in a kitchen that makes cooking and hanging out fun because the function was considered before anything else, I still wouldn't change them out, because an unworkable layout is what drove me to this in the first place, not the style or the age (though it was 30+ years old).

Good question.

White cabinets, wood floors, and marble countertops.

If I can't live with that, I need my meds adjusted.

Corrie :-)

I've joked that all the cabinets in our kitchen should be on wheels so that I could change them at whim. DH grinned and reminded me that plumbing doesn't wheel well. Aw, shucks. : ) This has been the hardest kitchen by far for us to plan (there have been many), and part of that is that we don't plan to move for a bunch of years, so we know it needs to work for a long while. We're gettin' closer, though.

Use what you love and change up the things that aren't so costly: window coverings, decorations, paint, some new plants, rearrange the furniture, etc. One of your other threads talked about doing brick around the range. How about a terra cotta utensil crock, or some terra cotta planters? This type of thing brings in the colors from your fireplace without nearly the expense or commitment. I remember my parents applying little skinny brick tiles on the backsplash in their kitchen back in the 80's. They thought it was the cat's meow then. Now, we'd all rip it out and start over. Neutral is wise for the big things, I think.

I actually don't change things very much, once I find a set up that works. When we first moved into this house, I moved the furniture three or four times...but once I found one that I liked, it's stayed that way ever since.

My mom, on the other hand, frustrated interior designer and lover of rearranged furniture! We used to come home from school and find the living room furniture in the hall and kitchen and mom either painting the walls or rearanging the furniture...or both :)

I always tease her, it's too many years in base housing (my dad was 20 years in the Air Force) but really, she loves the change. She's been in the new house for a few years and is already thinking about painting the kitchen cabinets white.

Don't get me wrong, I learned a lot from my mom and her decorating books and magazines...and she has wonderful taste...but she does love change. I've also noticed there are others on GW, who sometimes seem to like change or the new...and I just wonder if we have priced ourselves out of the freedom to start over. If we can't sell and buy a new house (with the current housing market in many areas) will we ever want to change what we have?

Maybe it's just me, but I have a feeling there will at least be a few 'great deals' on slightly used marble, granite and soapstone counters in the near future. Hey, I would like to find a white stone I love, too...but some people get things because they're popular...and some because it's what they truly love. Have you seen the Tuscan post? Do we really think some of the kitchens today, won't look dated in 10 years...and we'll want something entirely new? If you know you won't...then all I can say is wonderful choices, you really know your taste and style :)

I hope I will be as successful!

What Corrie said, though in my case it would be cream cabinets!

I'm married to a frugal builder, and when we married 17 years ago he had just finished fixing up our current house, which had been a wreck. Unfortunately, we met *after* he had decided to pick out the flooring, which is pink, gray, and white "pitted" (I'm sure there's some positive design term but I'm at a loss) vinyl sheeting, not at all to my taste then or now. Despite my great loathing for the colors and texture, there was no arguing with my husband, who couldn't see taking out perfectly good, brand new flooring, no matter how cheap it or its replacement would be. We are finally going to replace it in the next month or so, but only because we've finally had time to build the long awaited kitchen addition. So in my house, price has nothing to do with it, frugality and "perfectly good" does, sigh. Which also means that none of my finishes will be too expensive when the time comes anyway! We are for the most part considering Kenmore appliances and Ikea butcherblock, besides a bit of marble.

And I'm probably in the minority, because the new kitchen I'm planning will probably look much like my current one. I'm sadly consistent. My idea of being creative is buying more dishes and pottery : ).

Becky

Oh! Okay, I get what you meant now. I think you have a point, especially with the kind of inspiration for a really decorated room you're drawing from. There are always things one can do to redecorate, but I think the price is more a function of the relative price of a kitchen to a house. Unfitted rooms are pretty cheap, assuming you have the buildable land. I have a couple of armoires that move as I move, the way some European kitchens move with their owners, plus, since the end of the Craftsman movement we're more likely to put in inexpensive to build closets rather than fitted cabinetry outside of the kitchen. Almost all of us, however, use fitted cabinets in the kitchen, in permanent installation (even when they're IKEA). All of that permanence and investment doesn't really lend itself to makeovers, you're right.

There are little things you can do, however. Some people put accent tiles on their backsplashes in movable installations so that they can change them out, move with them, etc. It doesn't have as much function as grouted in place, but for areas where there's not much splashing back, there's little harm. It's easy to repaint, reupholster, etc. Not so easy to change a sink. Just the nature of things.

Frankly? Your experience with your mom nonwithstanding, I think people are far more likely to remodel now than decades ago. First, there's the temporary financial situation that makes remodelling make more sense than moving. Add to that the "builder's grade" kitchens that have become standard, in kitchens designed to show well and sell well but not necessarily work well, there's extra motivation for anyone settling in one of these houses to remake it.

The houses where I grew up are mostly pre-WWII, but even the ones built in the '50's and '60's were one offs, rather than tracts, and built by people who cared, not those who were trying to wring profits out of a deal that didn't have good potential to start with. They didn't have the "builder grade", but individual kitchens crafted for the space, likely with Mrs. Purchaser's input, or at least Mrs. Builder's. Those kitchens rarely get torn out or redone because they function well and look fine. No one worries much about "dated" because the styles were pretty simple and functional, even if the counters were something trendy, like pink. Appliances and faucets get replaced as they die, cabinets get refinished or painted when they get scuffed up, but that's about it. The people have money enough for a redo if they want one, but most don't see the need to waste their wherewithal.

Even in my own house, which was built by a builder for himself, though in the '80's, a lot of things were done inexpensively, but the quality of the kitchen was fine. The kitchen layout made me nuts--a true example of "guy" design--the appliances were shot, and some of the cabinet boxes had bad water damage. If it didn't so badly need a layout transplant, and if some of the cabinets hadn't been rotten, I wouldn't have torn it out, just put in new appliances. I'd still be living with '80's oak. They were decent quality cabinets and looked decent. The counters were a bad DIY tile job, but were fine. The floor was ugly if you looked, tile with grout paint that was peeling, but they were wonderfully nonslip and were fine.

I didn't change it to redecorate but to make it work. Now that it works, I have no need to redecorate. Making it work was worth the price. I suppose I could find the money to do it again, but I can't imagine spending it on something that works fine. And I wouldn't want to move and have to start all over when I already have such a wonderful kitchen!

I think part of the equation, to put it succinctly, is to just stop being so fickle. Learn to embrace what you like and not be so influenced by trends. A house isn't an impractical pair of shoes you can buy knowing they will rarely be worn; or a new haircut or color that will grow out.

Of course I grew up in an area where virtually every house had the kitchen it was built with unless the technology had changed so radically that a change needed to be made.

plllog mentioned "serial redecorators"... and it sounds like there are even serial remodelers at gardenweb.

i'm kind of surprised, lavender, that you don't change things much. you strike me as having an artistic personality who would enjoy redecorating; and i mean that in a good way. :)

personality must be a part of it. like becky described her "frugal builder" dh. i don't know if i fit that, but it is really hard for me to get rid of things that are still in good shape or still working!

in my case, i may be like Uncle Thorvald. with this remodel, it could be my one and only! (though i doubt very much appliances will last like our parents' did.) dh keeps saying, "if you don't like it, we'll rip it out and put something else in." that's almost laughable though. :)

i think individual tastes change as we grow. mine have. but i have a feeling, for me at least, my kitchen is cast in concrete!

so i would say it is more personality than price. people who like to make changes will find a way, regardless of how much they spent.

I have very practical tastes. I can see pretty and "stylish" clothing each season, but it doesn't mean that I go run out and redo my wardrobe. Of course, there are people who DO and CAN and more power to them.
Of course I would love a magazine-spread type kitchen. Who wouldn't? Even if I could afford top of the line, best of the best, trend of the moment, I know myself to know I would not do it.
I prefer function to form (not entirely but given the two choices, function first). I enjoy pretty things but I would rather they work well and last.
I have no illusions of a perfect kitchen. If I can make my meals easily and have enough storage so I don't trip over myself (like I am doing in this rental), I will be happy.

We are closing on a new house and the kitchen is nice but not "me." I plan to make a few minimal changes. If the budget gets tight, I told DH to just leave it ...is it my dream kitchen? No. My day to day life in the new area/home are more important.
I also think that this makes life in the kitchen a lot easier. I don't care if there's a stain or a scratch on anything :-)

I just today walked the corridors of Creative Lighting in St. Paul, one of the shops that we used for our lighting adventures. They regularly change the emphasis in their displays and over the course of this remodel the look of the place has really gone from X to Y to Xy to Z to ZZ to ZZZ and that's 3 years, tops. Our new garage lights are now in the bargain room, but with a tag saying sold to someone during the current sale; people won't even be able to see them on display in future. Our kitchen pendants were bought last fall from that same bargain room and they too were once "cutting edge" pieces for someone else.

We ain't a-gonna stop the new. The magazines, the distributors, the "industry"--they're all going to continue making changes. Doesn't need to bother us unless we let it bother us.

It's important but also very tough to sort out the timeless from the trendy, the classic from the wanna-be. You will need really good radar, good sense, and good taste. If you don't have it you either need to hang out in a cohort that is equally lacking in fashion ESP .. OR .. you need a mentor who doesn't have a stake in the game. Which is you, Lavendar?

Just remember...don't trust anyone for kitchen fashion advice if they have a motive because they're linked somehow to the industry.

And now back to your topic...which I believe is that the cost of things locks us into keeping them much longer than we might want. Well, ya. If you were buying a new kitchen with the idea that it's temporary then don't install much that's permanent unless you're wealthy; put in the changeable stuff and have at it. Creative to some of us means "addressing the things that custom has neglected" and to others means "creating a particularly unique space." I'm in the first group--my kitchen might be considered creative but if it's not really functional, who cares what it looks like. If you're in the second group, I advise you to start with a functional space because you're still going to be married to it no matter what the decor looks like over time. Additionally, we've learned firsthand as a nation that the good times might not last forever so you gotta like your first choices, just in case you don't get a second chance to redecorate or redesign.

I saw lots of ideas at the lighting store but walked out thinking that I don't need to buy a thing today. Even at $120 on sale and assuming that's pocket change :-)

ironcook, say, too bad your husband can't come over with his ""if you don't like it, we'll rip it out and put something else in" attitude and let just a little rub off on my husband while they shoot the breeze : ).

I think these last few generations are very different from previous ones, wanting (almost expecting) to put our own stamp on things, whether it's kitchens or children's names -- from Brittany, Britanee, and Britney to Britneigh. In a way this ties in to the childhood kitchens thread. It never in a million years would have occurred to my parents to remodel the kitchen or even to redecorate much. As wallycat wrote, the kitchen functioned well or at least well enough (my grandmother probably shot herself in the foot by being too good a cook!) so it never occurred to them to change things. Though my father never met a kitchen gadget he didn't like : ).

Becky

Thank you all for the responses...I find this all very interesting. I'd like to hear from some people, who might fall more into the 'trends group' even if it's because they can easily afford to make the changes. Maybe those people don't visit GW? :)

Me, I'm a bit like me mom and a bit like my grandmother (her mom) who always said...pretty is nice, dear, but if it doesn't FUNCTION it does you no good!

For me, I tend to find a piece I love and keep it forever. I have the same coffee table I found at a garage sale (with same grandmother) years ago, because I've never found anything I like better. It's a beautiful little mahogany oval table with the cabriole legs...but it's heavier and better built than most of the ones you see. The man selling it was so upset...he loved the table, but his wife wanted something new. His loss, was luckily, my gain :)

I'm very picky about what I bring home, but once it makes it in the door, it usually stays forever...especially big pieces. That's probably why I've been so particular about this design. I want it to function well, be affordable and fit the house...and us. If it doesn't do all those things, I'll think I could have done better.

For now, our little manufactured home (next to the farmhouse) works very well. We've managed to make the best of the space and it has grown on me. If we weren't outgrowing it, with our home based business, I don't even know if I'd be thinking about remodeling the farmhouse...but I know my husband's family would love to see it redone. That's another challenge, making sure it fits our lifestyle, but still is recognizable to all those who grew up in it and spent Christmases there.

Thank you again for the responses...and have a wonderful evening :)

When I think of the differences between the kitchens we and our friends had when we were young and those now, I really admire and am glad of the rise in appreciation for quality, a wonderful change from the cheap construction and finishes that were considered appropriate for millions of homes in the mid century.

I also really tremendously regret (especially often when visiting this forum) the loss of the creative freedom and delight in its expression that came with "fixing up" those old rooms--as many times as anyone wanted.

As asked, a seemingly inevitable cost of these new standards is the straightjacketing of thought and execution that comes with standard use of handsome and expensive cabinets and counters. The expense simply will not allow casual mistakes. Backing the stove with a homemade montage made from honeymoon souvenirs really wouldn't "go" with the corbels and double-ogeed granite. Transferring the kids' drawings to tiles sounds good, but would they look too amateurish? Grab a brush and PAINT $18K worth of cinnamon honey glazed doors just because you're tired of brown 3 years down the road?!

We just really need a wider appreciation, beyond professionally crafted fixtures, of what is nice, even fine. Many younger homeowners today just would not be able to imagine why everyone thought Sui and Georg's floor-to-and-including-ceiling decoupaged kitchen was so fabulous--they were both talented artists (and also very politically active :). A visit there was an experience, thoughts and conversation flowed, and absolutely none of it related to what it all cost or which brand it was. VERY nice.

Just want to say I love this thread...please keep adding more wonderful comments and stories! It's a breath of fresh air...sort of brings me back down to earth from all the decisionmaking and agonizing over stuff of late!

Kitchen cabinets are permenant these days? Huh?

I found myself recently admiring all the before/after pictures, but also found myself thinking that so many of the kitchens look just like the next one.

Poverty being the mother of invention, I have the truest, green kitchen ever. Almost all my cabinets are reused, painted, rebuilt, and replaced if I come across something of better quality at the reuse center. My kind of upgrade.

That said, my kitchen layout is great for my space, since I've had so long to move things around to get it really functional. Trendy? Can't afford it. But OTOH, my kitchen looks like no other, even in its simplicty & color choices.

My mom always changed the flooring, wall paper & curtains. The cabinets & countertops remained the same for the 20 years she lived in our main home. She is also a serial decorator. :)

Christine

Planning, and the amount of time spent doing it, makes a significant difference in whether this kitchen you create will be one you love 5, 10, 15, 30 years from now. Participating in discussion and listening to others, looking at a variety of styles to find what you LOVE, not like, but absolutely, without question, love deep down, you will create a home space that will stand the test of time regardless of new trends that come and go.

Someone else may one day come along who has no appreciation for the beauty of your marble counters and restful sun porch - and if they want to make a change, so be it.

Lavender, I think that by the time you finish, you WILL love your space. These are just thoughts of planning jitters, a sort of am I making the right choice type of event that we all experience at important decisions.

'ironcook, say, too bad your husband can't come over with his ""if you don't like it, we'll rip it out and put something else in" '

hey, send him here. I have a few things that need ripped out...

once I get done (if I do) very little will ever change in my lifetime. I'll be lucky to survive the move, let alone changing much else. I've already decided my upper kit cabs are in really good shape (the boxes), the bottoms falling apart tho. I'll have to figure how I can do that, change the bottoms but not the tops. I might even go with IKEA on the bottom cause I want just drawers (except the sink cab).
and they have good cab boxes I think - I like the drawers.
but even changing the bottoms will have to wait. I might never recover enough to care to change them - lol!

BUT, if I do change the bottoms next yr (and top doors to match) - they'll never change again for me. What goes in will be it. I still have most of the furniture that I've had for over 30 yrs. I have no desire to change to something else - except to maybe recover a sofa/a chair (they haven't been redone in 50 yrs probably).

change the curtains, the bedspread, lamp shade etc? yep, that i'll probably do if I make it 5 yrs or so!

I don't remember anyone changing things in their homes while growing up except a friend who put in new carpet, got some new furniture and her dh painted the kitchen (he did remodel a room in the basement to become another bdroom too). And my sister's dh when they bought their first house - he redid the kitchen cause it was a mess! he refinished the cabs, put on new counter top (formica in the 60's) and put down new vinyl floor.

I came to this site to gain insight into what has been working and what has not. To find ideas in order to tweak the concepts I have based my plans on. It has been very interesting. There is a large variety of styles posted on these forums.
After several weeks of reading the various forums here, there is one thing I have confirmed in my own mind, and that is character will be integral to the end product. Not something that will be out of date in 5 years, rather they will have a constant appeal, a timeless character about them. I have seen cabinets that have little character and some that are so ornate you do not want to use them. To each their own. We all have our own tastes, and that is a good thing. As long as one is happy with what they have, then that should be enough.

The exact design for my cabinets has not been determined. I am still researching this site and others. But I know they will be designed to last for decades, (unless I am forced to by overwhelming amounts of cash, it's the only way I know), and they will be like a work of Grant Wood art. Simple, solid, with depth of character, built to weather the fads.
Do not intend to build another one for myself so this kitchen, this house, will need to have a feeling of satisfaction about it for a long time to come. My goal is to make it feel like it is home to everyone who comes in the door. To feel like it is the place where elephants go to die, if you were an elephant. Metaphorically speaking of course.
We'll see how that comes out in the next several months. :)

This talk is starting to sound familiar. Harks back to the old "modest and quirky" thread. We came up with a phrase that touched something in our desires..."comfortable, authentic, unapologetic kitchens."

If you want to add "creative" or "evolving" to the description, feel free.

Here is a link that might be useful: old modest and quirky thread

florantha, I love that phrase!

I get what you are saying. Here is my personal opinion: We are putting in a new kitchen in the old den. The original kitchen is a very small and inefficient galley that was custom built in 1946 (the house was custom built by a local builder for his daughter back then, and he added the den in the 1950's). The cabinets are SOLID wood - built like a ROCK! The doors, however, need fixin - classic Mid-Century rounded edge plywood. The problem is NONE of them are "standard" sizes and I HATE base cabinets (ONLY DRAWERS for me - I can't stand having stuff disappear).

This is what I have decided after MANY YEARS of planning and thought:

1) make sure the STYLE of your kitchen cabinets matches your house - DO NOT do whatever is "trendy" now. In my case that means either Craftsman style or Mid-Century Modern. If you live in an old Victorian go that way (French Country, Craftsman, but NOT ultra modern).

You can "modernize" the look with a new backsplash every ten years if you so choose, but you should choose cabinets that will last.

2) Cabinet QUALITY: Because I am used to solid wood cabinets that have lasted so long, I just CANNOT bring myself to purchase ANY of the crap on the market today. NONE of the "semi-custom" cabinets are made to last more than 10 years - even the "all wood" plywoods are made with the cheapest, thinnest plywood available - totally not worth it. At that rate I'd just buy Ikea knowing full well that I'll have to re-do the kitchen in 5-10 years. Ikea is priced right for what you get, the other stuff on the market costs a LOT more and is just as crappy.

The ONLY way to get quality cabinets today is FULLY CUSTOM by a cabinet maker. That will start at $30,000 and UP!

So, what I have decided to do to save money is combine stainless steel cabinets that should last forever (costs about the same as the "all wood" upgrades on semi-custom, but will never need to be refinished) and build my own uppers. I will also be reusing most of the original cabinets for the island, investing in new solid wood drawer boxes with Blum glides and new solid wood doors to match the originals. I will be painting them all with Fine Paints of Europe's Hollandlac - I am choosing "funky" colors, but because I am using the BEST paint (saving money on the labor by doing it myself), they can always be repainted in the future.

This is the most important point - choose the best paint and you do not "need" to stay neutral. I have chosen to go Mid-Century Modern over Craftsman because quality Craftsman style cabinets that match the rest of my house are WAY out of my price range. If I was going the Craftsman route I would need solid oak or walnut instead of paint grade maple - a LOT more expensive! I am going with maple over poplar because poplar is a soft wood - the paint finish will get dented and chipped. The only difference between "paint grade" maple and "hard maple" is the grain - paint grade is not pretty, but it is still a hard wood.

QUALITY Paint vs. cheap paint: There IS a HUGE DIFFERENCE! NEVER go cheap on the exterior of your house or on kichen cabinets - it will NOT last! On our exterior we used BM Fast Dry Oil Primer (NEVER buy the regular oil primer - it NEVER cures) and oil paint on the trim and Acrylic stain over the oil primer on the siding. $50.00 a gallon, and we used at least 7 gallons of primer, 4 gallons of stain, 2 gallons of burgundy trim paint and one gallon green trim paint. Fine Paints of Europe is better, but I didn't know about it back then. So far BM has been fine.
On the cabinets I am DEFINITELY investing in Fine Paints of Europe - they get handled too much to go cheaper.
On my walls I go cheap, but I think I will upgrade to BM or SW from now on - Behr is cheap ($20) and great to test out colors, but it needs at least 2-3 coats (on top of primer) and still never looks right.

Drawer glides - Spend the extra money up front for Blum, and ONLY BLUM glides. The upcharge is minimal compared to replacing crappy glides in a few years (that will cost a fortune) and cheap glides DO NOT last!

If you need to save money in the beginning, go with a temporary cheap countertop from Home depot that you can replace in a few years with what you really want. A lot of brand new builder houses have cheap counters and most people replace them right away - it is an easy thing to replace down the road when funds allow. Same goes for the backsplash - wait until you have more funds - just use paint and a sheet of glass or stainless steel behind the stove for now.

Appliances - you will need to buy your "forever appliances" along with your cabinets because otherwise you may need to change the cabinets to fit an upgrade in appliances later. For example, a French Door Fridge is wider and deeper than a side-by-side. I am designing my kitchen around my appliances and I am determined to have separate full-fridge and full-freezer units (cheaper and more efficient than a standard fridge/freezer combo with an extra freezer elsewhere). They are almost counter-depth, and I could NEVER fit a 36" deep French Door fridge in my kitchen. Many people do not realize than most refrigerators on the market are a LOT deeper than a standard 25" countertop. They look horrible unless built-in with deep pantries on either side, and that layout only really fits into a LARGE kitchen. My new kitchen is only 156 sq.ft. (L-shaped 12'x13' fully open to dining and family room on two sides), still small but much bigger than the 64 sq.ft. (8'x8') galley (it is actually 92 sq. ft (8'x11.5'), but that includes the wasted space for the outside and basement doors).

Flooring - invest in a high quality floor BEFORE you have any cabinets installed. Yes, in theory you can always replace a floor later, but if you are doing a FULL remodel now, invest in a floor that will last forever. We added a family room next to the old den (back used to be L-shaped, now straight), and at first I was trying to keep the original oak floor in the den and design a kitchen that ended at a decorative strip between the old and new floors - that TOTALLY threw off the entire design / layout of the kitchen. I am SO glad I decided to remove the old oak floor and run brand new custom milled Sassafrass floors across the entire length of the old / new rooms (there is no wall between them). It actually made sense because the price per sq. ft. dropped once we went over 1,000 sq. ft. of flooring (we ordered 150 extra sq.ft. - THANK GOD - Sassafrass is soft and a lot if it was warped), so that made my decision to use Sassafras in the new master bedroom an easy one. I am going to turn the old galley into a pantry / laundry room (or hopefully a baking center), and I will be using the old oak in there (that room NEEDS new floors - it's crappy vinyl right now). So, it turned out that getting an entirely new floor actually saved a lot of money in the long run. And it looks awesome!

As for flooring choice, that is by far my main "neutral." It goes with anything / any style. Wood vs. tile / stone is a personal decision, but wood can always be refinished if it is solid 3/4" so it will last forever. It is also more comfortable to stand on for long periods than tile. Color: Dark vs. Light: If you want dark wood floors that will last in a kitchen / family room you will need to invest in either Walnut or Cherry, and NOT stain a lighter wood. A stained finish in a high traffic area will NEVER last more than a few years before looking like crap. Sassafrass is a light yellow/orange/brown highly grained wood. In my bedroom I was determined to have walnut, but I couldn't afford it, so I WILL be staining that floor, and adding area rugs. But a bedroom does not get nearly as much traffic as a kitchen / hallway or family room.

So, if you invest up front in high quality cabinets that match the style of your house and high quality floors that will last, then no, you have NOT "Priced yourself out of Creativity!"

There has been a trend to place kitchens of significant cost and presence in otherwise modest houses. The market segment for Subzero/Wolf grew but the segment expanded into a consumer base with a lower mean income and house value. I think that people wanted a higher performing appliance but then felt the materials and "look" of the entire kitchen had to be raised to a certain standard, and this is what created the "disconnect" between the kitchen and the house that contains it. I am not saying a modest house has to have a modest kitchen in terms of its quality, necessarily--but that it should Look modest.

So the pale yellow pedimented and corbeled Clive Christian kitchen that looks so great in the showroom --its not gonna age so well in a two bedroom apartment straight off the Bob Newhart show. (I am not making this up, I saw this apartment on a tour.) It could have been a pricey but low key SieMatic kitchen, which would then be fitting forever, not just because its trendy.

So I think many have priced themselves out of creativy but also objectivity--or the ability to discern appropriateness.

I don't see being creative as needing a large budget or using expensive items/materials. Isn't part of being creative (in this case kitchen design) coming up with ideas with the end result being a good looking kitchen you love - in the present and future without spending a lot of money? ("A lot of money" based on each individual - I've never understood the house poor - those who build/buy a nice house, but then can't afford furniture.) I can't see going into any building, remodeling or single item purchase with a "throw away" mindset as a good thing. And I don't mean being green.

If the reason someone wants to install laminate counters now instead of marble is because marble just simply is not in the budget, then laminate it is. But I don't understand the mindset Pal discussed and I agree with - especially his statement (which seems to be in his Contextual Beauty thread I read before this one):

Its more a discussion for people who are worried what their unbuilt kitchen design is going to look like in ten years. Because maybe whatever is "wrong" with it in ten years is really wrong with it now, and it will just be more obvious in ten years when the trend is passed--and the reasons for that need to be examined.

LL has started many threads with kitchen ideas/questions - this is not a bad thing. ;) Reading her posts in these newer threads surprised me. It's obvious this is a large project with many decisions to be made, and on top of that she wants to make DH's family. The pressure is on. lol

LL, I think you know in your head what you want (and what is affordable - the mom in me talking). I would start zeroing in on the most important feature(s) to you. The rest will fall into place as decisions are made. With the basic cabinets, counter and flooring you can change from French Country to Modern Farmhouse (as opposed to dirt floors ;) ) with a few minor adjustments (dish towels, plants, accessories, etc).

It's been awhile since I've looked at your floor plan, but in my mind, a few unfitted pieces would be a good fit in your home. Things that can be moved to other rooms if you tired of them (or find something better). You might even have a favorite piece now.

One thing we did that only a few subs understood - our tile flooring runs from wall to wall in the kitchen. Yes, under the cabinets. I would suggest whatever kind of flooring you use, to run it wall to wall. This will make any future changes much easier and the cost is minimal compared to needing an entirely new floor because of gaps.

Back away from magazine, blogs and all the eye candy available at the touch of a button. It's only confusing you and casting doubts.

Ditto itsallabouthtefood! Well said.

That's what I like about my old house- I'm remodeling the kitchen so that it will look appropriate in 50 years and hopefully not as worn as the stuff I'm tearing out now that was put in 50 years ago. This time soapstone instead of formica. Oak floors instead of colored linoleum. That way if I want to change I can paint the walls to appease my decorating sense, but once I'm done with this kitchen, I'm moving on to the next project! And trying not to fill up the landfill in the process.

This turned into a really fascinating post. I have been
reading and I agree with so many wonderful statements.

I especially agree with Christine (CEFreeman).

Allison0704, Spot on about creativity!!!

PowerTPatriot, beautifully said
"Character will be integral to the end product."

Laughable, paint is my way of changing. But cabs on wheels
now that is creative!

LL,
I think that whatever you do will be beautiful. It is hard
to stay within a budget but you can do it. And you have
not priced yourself out of creativity. Do what is beautiful
to you.

"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it"
Confucius
~boxer

Thank you all for your thoughtful and often, insightful, responses :)

I am not at all worried about staying on budget, but there are a lot of options out there...and it is easy to get overwhelmed! I'm planning to use vinyl floors, painted cabinets (maybe some natural wood) and probably a laminate or butcher block countertop. I would love to add some marble, but I'm more worried about upkeep than cost, since it would be a smaller area of marble.

For me, the hardest part has been layout...and now that I have a plan, it's made me rethink some of my color choices. I still want to use mainly neutrals, but as many have said, paint is an easy change, whether on walls or cabinetry :)

My original question was more about whether we (not just GW, but people in general) are pricing ourselves out of creativity, by thinking we HAD to have the expensive choices out there and not daring to change them, while still paying them off...possibly for the next 10 to 20 years.

For me, it's fun to have the challenge of making the most out of a limited budget and shopping for reclaimed and slightly used items. I love antique stores, thrift shops and garage sales and I think we need to say, while it's wonderful to have an unlimited budget (or at least a large one) it's also okay to make the best of a limited budget, use our creativity...and still end up, with a kitchen we love! :)

LL, my marble and budget comments were not directed your way - and "mom" was only reminding as she does often. I'm aware of your marble upkeep concerns. I would be too!

I left out that we seem to think alike. I also get a room arranged and, for the most part, it stays that way for years. I also love a good bargain (leaves money to spend on something else - or save for the future), shopping vintage, repurposing and being creative in our home.

Some people do feel they have to have the expensive choices, and many don't care if they change them in the next 20 years while still paying them off. But that's a job for Dr Phil and Suze Orman. ;)

Allison- Dr. Phil...LOL!

I thought the mom comment was cute and I would LOVE marble, but it scares me, especially on a permanent cabinet, rather than a mobile work table. The whole sealing, staining, etching thing, has me a bit nervous, but I would love to have a baking area with marble. I'll have to get some samples and try it...same with the Zodiaq and the butcher block. When I see if any of those surfaces can hold up to our 'farm life' I'll be much more relaxed...and worse case scenario...there's always formica, which we have now and it's held up beautifully :)

You know, the entire main level of my parent's home (they built in 1985) is Sylacauga (Alabama) marble flooring. It's gorgeous. White with a touch of gray. Classic. And shiny. But not for me.

I like the marble and stone flooring I saw in Europe - Rome, seemed to have the best flooring. Aged to perfection! Before we moved, we went to a local restaurant with wide pine flooring that was almost black from either being river bottom pine or just age/abuse. I LOVED it. I'd say to DH "this is what I would love our floors to look like." He thought I was nuts. So we don't have wide, old, dark patina flooring. I lived. Barely. ;)

So I could see putting a section of marble in my kitchen and letting it age naturally. Better yet, repurposing a section that already has developed that great patina!

This is part of my ongoing island/work table debate! Marble on a work table is wonderful...and if I trash it, I can take it off, cut it down and put the marble on something else...and get a different top. For some reason, that sounds much more difficult on a fixed island :)

Satisfaction. Why is that such a hard thing to acheive? I have a giant debt of gratitude to my husband and my maker that I had the opportunity, even if just once, to do exactly as I pleased in a space, and if I think about it long enough, I'm humbled that I get to focus on something that can be argued to be so frivolous in the grand scheme of things.

I can only say that because I'm probably the worst offender of the question you asked. I fretted so much during the process that I finally had a friend order me to "STOP LOOKING" at all design publications, online or otherwise. I'm a creative producer by trade, so it was hard for me to separate the need to be cutting edge vs. the need to make this something I could love for 20 years if need be.

Did I make some choices I regret? Yep. I'm already wondering if my exterior countertops are too "of the moment grey" and the implication of what that will mean with the passing of the grey renaissance in approximately 5-7 years. I also am certain antique brass hardware is going to be the rage in 2-3 years. If I let myself go there, I'll be practically paralyzed. So, I'm just going to QUIT LOOKING and be satisfied.

Yep, I went into safetymode on some things... but luckily for me, in the Deep South, some of my more cutting edge flirtations were so out of the norm, they were price prohibitive. And the more I think of it, I'm glad my current kitchen was price prohibitive for me 10 years ago... otherwise it would have been a giant concrete block with no grace but lots of street cred ;)

this is slightly off-topic, but can someone show me what a marble countertop with a lot of patina looks like?

Lavender, sorry for the hijack, but you'll love this site!!

ironcook, scroll down to see original marble tops in a 1912 Prairie style home.

Here is a link that might be useful: Old House Dreams

Mama goose- Thanks for the link...beautiful home! It's so good to see you :)

thanks, mama_goose.

i kind of had the impression, because everyone dreads it so, that they would look horrible or something. very nice. yes, a beautiful home.

ironcook, sabjimata posted this last year, at her blog...

Becky

Here is a link that might be useful: Gaudi's kitchen

I know no one has posted here for a few weeks, but I am just now reading the entire thread and thought I would chime in. I love the advice about thinking about what you liked 5 and 10 years ago to get a sense of what is true to you and what you will still like in the future. That being said, I think you can't go wrong with things you love, even if it is trendy. If you truly love it, you will love it even after the trend has passed.

My mom has said about buying furniture or a piece of art or whatever, if you love it, you will always find a place for it wherever you live. Obviously, kitchens aren't typically dismantled to be taken with you when you move, but the idea can still apply - if you love something you will continue to love it far into the future.

A friend's mom says "A thing of beauty is a joy forever." And the author of Organized Simplicity, Tsh Oxi.. something says everything in your house should either be pratical or beautiful. As far as remodeling a kitchen, I agree with the people that say a kitchen has to be pratical/functional to begin with, but beautiful is certainly good too. To me, it would be awful if a kitchen looks glamourous but doesn't function, but it would also be awful if a remodeled kitchen was totally functional with no beauty. That would just make me so sad.

This is precisely the reason that I've come around to wanting Ikea cabs. My dream kitchen now isn't going to be my dream kitchen in 20 years. If I can spend a third of the price to get essentially the same look and functionality, it seems like a no brainer to me.

Now that our basement has flooded and our central air died, I will be waiting on that dream kitchen a bit longer. I'll have even more time to be sure of my choices.

NSBelle, your friend's mother is quoting a Keats poem from the early 1800's, so the saying has been holding true for at least 200 years : ).

Becky

Here is a link that might be useful: John Keats was right