I just cannot imagine what is going through these kids heads. Where have we gone wrong, and what can we possibly do to fix it?

Trin

"Where have we gone wrong,"
In my opinion~~ it probably all started when the Lords prayer was taken out of school..that and this "gawd forbid you spank your kids and teach them something rule"

Ditto to ont gal.

When was the Lords prayer said in school? I'm 50 and never had to say it in school. I do agree with not being able to spank kids today without being accused of child abuse. I had many spankings when I was a kid but grew up just fine. I don't have children of my own but spoil my pets rotten.

"When was the Lords prayer said in school?"

It was always said in school in Ontario Canada until about 10 or so years ago..maybe a bit longer,cant remember now

We said it until I was 10, so 1963. The only reason I remember so clearly is that I remember my teacher at the time, she cried. From that point forward we had a moment of silence, and I think that has now ended as well. I too think that was the beginning of the end.

I think it's senseless that each and every human has a gun who wants one...too many idiots out there without a clue who prefer to shoot first without one thought of the consequences.

Sounds like saying the Lords prayer in school was before my time. I do remember saying the Pledge of Allegience every morning.

I think it does not help that people, especially not just young people, will not assume responsibility and respect others. Some adults today always want to blame others, expect others to always help them out, expect that the government or state or??? to bail them out etc.

Hear, hear. Ont__gal, I'm standing, applauding, giving your statement a standing ovation. There should be no question "where did we go wrong." We ought to look at our mindset today and know. Our freedom of speech is slowly being taken away with all the political correctness. One is afraid even to speak of God and country in the same sentence. But, look where it is getting us. I won't live to see it, but I would like to come back 75 years from now, and see how the world is surviving. We have an accurate history book but people refuse to believe it or to read it, and they go their own way and do their own thing in vain.

I'm sorry, normally I would not get involved in a religious post, but I have to speak up.

I never had to say the Lord's prayer in school, it just wasn't part of our curriculum. And I've never had the urge to shoot someone or murder someone. Please do not equate prayer with morals or ethics or good behaviour.

I went to public school from 1957 to 1970, when I graduated from high school. I remember, as a child, reciting the Pledge of Allegiance and the Lords Prayer, the long version. For thine is the kingdom. . . And I never murdered anybody.

I am so glad I brought the question of "where did we go wrong?"
I already knew the answer.
Not so much the prayer, for me, but the ability for a parent to be the adult. I know when raising my kids, my freedom of discipline was taken from me, and I regret that to this day.
Ask my almost 30 year old son, who sends me Mothers day cards from behind bars.
Trin

I'll say that "If it feels good, do it" mantality has taken over the Ten Commandments. We're on a downward spiral and it's part of what's supposed to happen (for those of you who follow Revelation). We'll take heart in that.

Blessings,
Haley

Whew - I sure am in favor of bringing back prayer. Cultures and society have become so global that it is hard to have everyone represented during the "prayer" time in schools. But I have to tell you, when prayer was removed, there went the Golden Rule, and then respect for others, especially elders, just for respect's sake. When you are an adult, you have hopefully been provided the basics with which to make you own decisions and form judgements. Unfortunately, kids these days are given the same level of judgement acuity as adults. They don't have the maturity to handle that - no matter how mature we think they are. My own daughter was pretty mature for her age - even said by teachers and other parents. However, she herself often told me, "I'm just a kid", even during her hi-teen years. I'm not sure if it was prayer itself or prayer being the catalyst for remembering and respecting others, but I just know that things sure have changed since it and similar sybolisms have been challenged. When prayer was in schools, there was a value system in place that has been eroding in recent years. Free speech - yes, but bring back values and respect. If prayer does that, well, I'm all for it, no matter one's religious beliefs. Maybe non-believers could be encouraged to reflect on the Golden Rule or something similar during "prayer" time. It's not as much about religious beliefs as it is about incorporating solid and positive thoughts. Whatever works,let's do it, for sure - although, as someone said, believers do believe this change is in the cards, so to speak. We may not be able to change this - hmmm...

This is truly a sad and senseless story. I believe, and in believing, I know this kid's life was not in vain. But, what a way a horrible way for the shooter to represent himself in the world.

We went wrong when we stopped raising our children and put the responsibility off on day care workers, teachers, baby sitters, video games, tv and the other kids that they hung out with, and felt like any problem they had could be taken care of with a pill.

I'm not certain anyone,including myself is "equating morals or responsibility" with prayer

What I said,and meant,is that it "seems" that once the "Golden Rule" as someone else referred to it as, went out the window,so did good judgement on the kid and the parents parts.

I also stated,that it was ONTARIO that prayer was taken in school...I did not single out any other place,for I know not what other provincial customs are.

I attended school in Toronto(city) and in the country as well...I do not recall prayer in the city,however,we DID sing God save the Queen.
In the country,it was the morning prayer as well as the anthem--for those that practiced a different religion,they left the room

Maybe some of you did not recite the prayers in school,how in the world would I know...but I would be willing to bet that your parents has some sort of "religious" rearing beliefs and/or values in order for our generation(45-70+) to have turned out not all that bad in comparison to *some* of todays generation.

And no...my intentions were not to turn this into a religious post either

JMO which evidently I am supposed to be entitled to.

Morals,good principals,proper behaviour all went out the window in the last 15-25 years in my estimation.

Marilyn C I agree 100% with your statement.....in fact I agree with it two thousand percent, if that is possible! Therein lies the real problem.

Personally, I think it is all of the above....plus kids from crib on up have violence shoved at them from every form of "entertainment" Either it doesn't seem real to them or they are immuned (sp?) to it and not at all shocked by man's inhumanity to man. JMO, Dottie

My life was forever changed when I was labeled a child abuser by my son's kindergarten and the state of Georgia...from then on out I've been afraid to discipline my kids...

Angie...I'm sorry this happened so close to your home...It's a tragic senseless thing...

I don't know what the answer is...but I don't want my kids to bring kids into this world...maybe I'll change my mind...I really doubt it though...

never had the Lord's Prayer in school and i graduated in 64...but then i was lucky enough to have a parent to come home to...i count my blessings we were able to AFFORD for me to not to work...most families have to have 2 working parents, now days...

i think of the times we spent at soccer games, swim meets, other sporting events, and knew the names of the kid's friends, all helped.
although my dd's and dil's all work, they make the time to teach and train...no matter how tired they are...so do my ds's and sil's...

last? we've never had a gun in the house...

What ashame. I agree SENSELESS!!

As usual, Marilyn c. has the answer!

No prayer in our schools either. We said the Pledge of Allegiance and sang America the Beautiful (I still tear up when I hear that song). We may have had a moment of silence, I don't remember...

Parochial school is always an option, whether it be in the US or Canada. As a matter of fact, I work at a Christian University. We usually attribute acts like the one the OP mentioned to excessive alcohol, not the lack of prayer!

I agree 100% with Marilyn C....What a terrible, as you said, senseless murder....Terrible for both families..

In taking prayer etc. out of our schools, I also think some young adults are very creative when you read about how they "sneak" God into their commencement speeches etc. As one did recently when he stood at the podium, said nothing and after a minute, sneezed and everyone in the graduating class said, "God Bless You".

I'm 80 years old and we never had the Lord's Prayer in any of the schools I attended. We did have the Pledge of Alligience. I wonder if the kids even know My Country 'Tis of Thee anymore. I'm sure they don't sing many Stephen Foster songs, esp. Old Black Joe.

I'm sure alcohol and possibly drugs were involved in the reasoning for this shooting.

I forgot My Country 'Tis of Thee. We sang that too...

"Liquid Courage". Amazing what happens when people get a little booze into them. These days it doesn't take much to set a person off. Personally I am surprised that there are not more robberies and killings over cigarettes.

SamKaren
your resident DJ

Yes, SamKaren, you said it "Liquid Courage"! Senseless acts of violence have been around a long, long time. This is not a school prayer issue!