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craig00_gw

Lowe's and HD vs. the little guys

craig00
16 years ago

How many of you shopped for cabinets at private dealers and how many went only to LoweÂs and HD?

Based only on my own experience, and after speaking this a.m. with my GC, it seems the private dealers charge no more, and frequently less, than the big box stores and offer better service. Moreover, youÂre supporting a local business person.

Our Medallion cabinets are available as Schuler at selected LoweÂs. The KD at LoweÂs was pleasant and proficient, but the KD at the local Medallion dealer was a notch above. Cost was about the same and when I got prices from several places the local place matched the lowest quote. The service is more personal and better overall, the atmosphere is nicer, theyÂre closer and I prefer to give my money to a local family owned business as IÂm a local business person myself.

LoweÂs and HD carry Kraft Maid and other cabinets that are also available at small privately owned shops but it seems that most people here buy from the bigger stores when purchasing KM.

What are the reasons you buy from the big box stores instead of the small guys?

Comments (37)

  • User
    16 years ago

    The biggest incentive that any big box store has over a local shop is the power of their financing programs and the fact that they are a giant company that you KNOW will be there 5 years down the road. With the current state of the economy, and the building and remodeling slowdown, you're going to see LOTS of independents closing their doors soon. It's already happened in droves in cities across America. Lowes and HD will still exist. You may pay a bit more money, but if you watch the promos, probably not. They can afford to cut deeper than an independent sometimes because of their size. You can get better service--sometimes. It all depends on the local big box individuals as well as the local shop individuals. There is no blanker one size statement that fits all. Each person has to judge "value" and "service" standards for themselves.

  • californiadreamer
    16 years ago

    I had fully intended to use Home Depot when I started out. I paid them $100 to design the kitchen - they came up with 3 designs and I liked the third the best. It went down hill from there. The contractor was late on his bid, without giving me the courtesy of a phone call. The quote was quite high and didn't spell everything out. My dad, an out-of-state retired contractor, looked it over and said they had really pumped up the costs on things like permits, etc. (I recall that was $1200 alone). All that and I wasn't enthralled with the cabinets.

    I ended up going to a local company (they do manufacture throughout the US), and saw a cabinet I fell in love with. They enhanced Home Depot's plans and gave me a quote that was about $2,000 less for the cabinets and installation. There were no problems, and little issues were resolved to my satisfaction.

    My contractor was wonderful. My entire kitchen was gutted and there was lots of work to do. He itemized each cost, dotting the t's and crossing the i's. He gave me a schedule of what work would be done in my home and the name of the technician(s) who would be in my home. It was a very good experience.

    The one thing I took out from my contractors bid and dealt with myself (flooring) turned out to be the biggest headache - I now know to leave this work to the professionals.

    I think many of the locals may work harder as they know how powerful word of mouth is. I have passed my cabinet/contractor information on as a recommendation, so obviously I am satisfied.

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  • User
    16 years ago

    We purchased cabinets at HD for the kitchen in a house we flipped and the main reason we went with them was the location of the house...pretty much out in the middle of nowhere. We installed the cabinets ourselves. Based on the horror stories we've heard from friends about sub-contractors from HD, we skipped that part of the potential agony.

    For our regular home, we went with a custom cabinet maker because he was able to give us exactly what we wanted at a price that was lower than a cabinet dealer. I don't care if he's around in 5 years, our cabinets are solid and are what we wanted.

  • edlakin
    16 years ago

    i would never purchase something like cabinets from a big box store where my order is just one of hundreds they'll process that week. when employees are dealing with large volumes of orders, that's when mistakes get made because it's "just another order" and who cares if it holds up the process another month.

    i'm a big fan of supporting local businesses, but even more, i like dealing with companies where, when i call, the same guy answers the phone every time, knows me by voice, knows the details of my order, and goes over it personally to check for issues before the order is placed.

    as another poster said, i don't really care if his business is still around in five years, because, when you get down to it, he's responsible for the design and the order. the cabinet manufacturer will be the one who's responsible for any issues down the road with construction, finish, etc.

  • raehelen
    16 years ago

    I went to HD to begin my cabinet journey. Handy to have the displays and see all the little add-ons. Since they wanted $$ to pre-measure my kitchen before we even started talking, I didn't deal with them. Doing a smallish kitchen DIY as part of a total house reno, budget was a huge consideration. Knowing what I know now, I still think they are a good starting point to get to know differences in construction, etc. but I would look for a local custom cabinet maker. I hopefully have found the guy to do the rest of the cabinets in our reno- and he is way less expensive than HD.

    Interestingly, the tile places in town will match or beat HD prices, and for the Kerdi system, that means savings of hundreds of $$$! They broached me with that, I didn't even ask!

  • edlakin
    16 years ago

    oh, good point. i also started at lowes/HD looking at the displays, door styles, finishes, and gadgets. it's a good place to see a lot of products and not have to deal with salespeople getting in your face.

    i got ideas from their displays and then went from there.

  • tgpdd
    16 years ago

    Ours is a low budget, DIY remodel. But, for me, I wanted the best quality cabinets I could get. Fancy glazes and designs, no, but solid, well-built, all wood, yes. The rest wasn't important. We're replacing things but not changing the basic layout.

    I'm not looking for financing as I'm paying cash. As for HD or Lowes being around down the road, yeah, they probably will be. But if you do a little browsing the forums, you'll see any number of people who cannot get their complaints resolved with the big box store, who try to shift responsibility to the manufacturers and vice versa. So that's not a draw for me.

    We worked with a local kitchen place that also owns a custom cabinet shop. The very experienced kitchen designer/owner I worked with measured my house and came up with nice plans for free. She spent hours with us, and gave some great ideas without trying to talk me into stuff I didn't really want. She offered us a great deal on Corian countertops for the same price as nice laminate.

    I like supporting local business and local craftsmen. We did get a quote from the big box stores, but after you added in all the upcharges to get quality cabinets, they were no cheaper than the local place. And the people we talked to there weren't nearly as experienced.

  • hollylh
    16 years ago

    If people make an effort to support local businesses instead of huge corporations, maybe those little stores WILL be around in five years!

  • saskiasmom
    16 years ago

    I can't comment on Home Depot vs. the little guys since I mostly use little guy, but did buy my cabinets through Scherr's because they seemed to be the best value for custom cabinets. (Using IKEA would have required way too many fillers.) But the permit direct from the county for my 9 by 11 foot kitchen was over $1200, so perhaps the contractor was not padding the bill.

  • californiadreamer
    16 years ago

    Hi saskiasmom ~

    Our kitchens are about the same size, but my current contractor got the permits for $440 as I recall. I can't get to my paperwork to confirm right now because I have someone in my hallway installing baseboards. Are you in California? I would think California would have one of the steepest rates, but maybe not.

  • inkycrab
    16 years ago

    We made an appointment with 3 cabinet shops and Lowes all in one day. Lowes was the last stop of the day. We were treated wonderfully at the cab. shops and when we got our appointment at Lowes, the KD was dealing with a customer whose paperwork they had lost. I took that opportunity to talk to the customer about her experience with Lowes and she told me some horrible stuff. By this point our appointment time was fading and the KD still couldn't find the couple's paperwork so dh and I looked at each other and decided to blow off Lowes altogether. I have no idea if their prices/product would have comparable but it was not worth the headache to find out.

  • lily1342
    16 years ago

    I went to HD because I live in a small town - small, but not too small to have a HD! I could only find 2 local cabinet makers and visited one of them personally. What they usually made, MDF boxes with solid wood doors, didn't seem to be that much less than HD and I would've had to find my own installer. In the 3 years we've lived here, I've had a heckuva time trying to find anyone to work on the house, kitchen or otherwise. I think living far away from a large metro area can really limit your choices, so HD just made things easier in that respect. Fortunately, the cabinet installers they used - who traveled down here from the nearest large city - were very good.

  • beth4
    16 years ago

    I feel strongly about supporting local businesses. For me, it makes no sense to worry about saving hundreds of $$$ by shopping at big box stores when local firms, local employees, etc. all suffer much bigger losses from the presence of these same big box stores. My thinking has always been that my $X,000 kitchen, bath, remodel etc. needs to be accomplished using local businesses....why should I spend (for me) a lot of money, yet penalize the locally-owned businesses who add to the quality of life in my area, who support the Chamber of Commerce, etc. And, no, I am not in business; I am retired, and have never owned a store in my life. It's just a philosophy.

    So... my cabinets were made by a local cabinet maker who has been in business for years. Everything in the entire remodel came from the local plumber and his plumbing store, the local lighting and electrical store, the local tile people, the local granite store, the local wood flooring store, the local appliance dealer, local painting contractor, etc. And I'm delighted with every aspect of my remodel. Excellent quality. Everything installed as promised, when promised. Superb final results, completed in a timely manner.

    I had an after-remodel party (I remodeled my entire house), for the owners and key workers of the stores where I'd purchased my products. They and their wives all came, and they all admired each other's handiwork, and we celebrated a wonderful outcome to a successful remodel. It was such a satisfying final chapter to the great adventure of remodeling. And I would never have done that had I worked with the big box stores.

  • c9pilot
    16 years ago

    beth4-
    That is so cool. What a great idea to celebrate the remodel with the folks who helped make it happen.

  • craig00
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    livewireoak,while your points are well taken, but I don't KNOW that the big box stores will be here in five years. Here in PA there are many big chain stores that were around for years but are now gone forever (Hechingers, Levit Furniture). Financing incentives may be available through HD and Lowes but many independent dealers will do something to match them or get pretty close. You may also throw a one year or six month 0% credit card into the mix.

    I've met a lot of great people who work at the big box stores and when they first opened the employees fell over themselves to help you. For the past number of years the level of service has varied widely. Independent stores don't guarantee great service, but it's nice that the people I deal with really know who I am because I'm one of dozens of current customers, not one of hundreds.

    I hate to say it, but one reason I went with Medallion as opposed to a local cabinet maker is that I'm getting a lifetime warranty from the conglomerate, Elkay. I had to contact Elkay's customer service dept. several times for an issue regarding a sink. I dealt with one of the managers, Debbie. She followed up and called me at least twice to work things out. When it was all sorted out I called specifically to thank her for her personal attention. She said the only calls she ever gets are complaints so mine made her happy. Her level of service is another reason I chose Medallion.

    That being said, it's great to go to the only truly independent hardware store within a 10 mile radius. They're out of a movie; worn wooden floors, the odd items only they carry, knowledgeable staff, and a few "characters" who've worked there for years. My GC said he misses the morning cup of coffee and chewing the fat at the hardware store that closed shortly after HD opened.

    Overall, your assessment of the current economy on the little guy is chilling but not inaccurate. I say do your part to prove yourself wrong.

  • breenthumb
    16 years ago

    Its nice to see some people recommending local independent dealers. We do the same. Between the big boxes and buying so much online, its no wonder the smaller stores are having a hard time. I'd hate to see the day when that individuality and incentive to even try is just a memory. Sandy

  • donnar57
    16 years ago

    We went to THREE places for cabinetry and kitchen designs. One was a highly recommended kitchen design and cabinets place here in San Diego County. Another was a place that we found via the Internet. The third was HD.

    The first company was obnoxious. They bid the kitchen at the same time as they bid the family room. The two bids were about twice what we expected to pay and our budget, combined. I also didn't like the way the designer ignored what *I* wanted in my kitchen. She kept saying, "Oh, you'll want this." Or, "you'll need a new refrigerator, I'll put in a $5000 appliance allowance for the refrigerator." (Now first, I KNEW I wasn't getting rid of my fridge, and second, I had no intentions of paying $5K for an appliance that should cost $1500 at MOST.)

    The design at the SD cabinetry company was good, on the order of what we ended up with. But the price for the cabinets (NOT including the installation) was about twice what we expected. We also found out, via a couple of other people, about some problems that they had. When we combined their GC's bid with the cabinetry bid, the kitchen cost twice as much as what we could afford.

    We went through two KD's at HD, and liked the design of the second one. We enjoyed working with her, too. She listened to what we had to say, incorporated those, made little suggestions but didn't get upset if we didn't like one or two. The bid for the cabinets came in right at what we expected to pay.

    However, we did NOT go with HD's general contractor. HIS bid was outrageous. But what really upset us, was the fact that when you meet with the HD contractor (in the store), you either sign the contract right then or don't. You may NOT remove it from the store. They also did not want you to bring another contract in for comparison. So we couldn't see if the bids were comparable for the work to be done.

    Neither of us really LIKED the HD contractor, either. But we liked our GC from the family room project and decided to go with him again. Though we never said so to our KD, it's possible that she got the definite impression that we were leaning towards Josh all along.

    We do like our cabinetry - the only thing we'd change is the way that the shelves are installed. However, it is nice to think that I could change them down the line.

    DonnaR/CA

  • saskiasmom
    16 years ago

    Hi californiadreamer--Yes, I am in California--San Mateo County. Lots of expensive houses in the county--ours is not, but I'm sure they're trying to support other functions with their high prices. You'd think they'd be easier to deal with when called to inspect and come when they say they will. Oh, well, I am trying not to be so controlling and roll with the punches.

  • weedyacres
    16 years ago

    One thing no one has mentioned and that has made a difference in our buying lots of stuff in our home remodeling: the big boxes are open 6am-9 or 10pm 7 days a week. Many local places are M-F 9-5 kind of places, and for us, who both work full time, that makes it tough to buy from them. It's been great (possibly indispensible?) to be able to pick up a few things at Lowe's at 6am after I finish my workout at the gym next door, or to meet with our KD at HD on Sat at 8pm. We've done a lot of both.

    FTR, we bought our cabinets from HD and had a great experience. Lowe's service wasn't as good, but we've bought a lot of other stuff from them.

  • rosalita
    16 years ago

    We started looking at HD (great designer experience there) and at Lowe's (staff couldn't be found, then even when we had an appointment, we were told we would have to wait for what looked to be a very long time so we just left). I liked the HD cabinets but the price turned out to be the same as the local custom cabinet maker who was pricing premium woods for me. I liked the very detailed way I could customize my kitchen with the local so went that way and it has been a great experience. I think I would have totally enjoyed working with the KD at HD but had heard from several people that the contracters and subs HD use are where they hike prices. I know the local guy uses the same team and they are highly recommended . Just made sense for me to go local. I also was very leery after reading on this forum about so many necessary returns of defective cabinet pieces. That doesn't happen with locally made cabinets.

  • Circus Peanut
    16 years ago

    I am a big proponent of recycling/salvaging materials in general and try not to buy too many new items. That said, while at my local Lowes one day, I did check them for new countertop pricing. They advertised a "soapstone", but their 'kitchen specialist' couldn't tell me if it was real or some kind of laminate, then couldn't find the sample itself, then couldn't find a pricelist. After waiting quite a while as she fumbled around and the line of other customers behind me grew, I told them never mind.

    This pretty much confirms the experience I've had at the big box stores, where you have to know exactly what you want and where it's stocked, as the employees won't know, will tell you they don't carry it, and throw in bad advice to boot.

    After a truly annoying experience last month, when I DIYed blow-in cellulose insulation and had to return to Lowes THREE times because they kept giving me the incorrect equipment, I will avoid them for anything but after-hours basic supply runs.

  • bluekitobsessed
    16 years ago

    I looked a lot at HD (less at Lowe's -- it's not convenient for me) for planning & ideas but I didn't seriously consider them for cabinets and didn't at all for granite because I wanted an exotic. (In fact one of my top 5 reasons for rejecting granite was that "it looks like something you can get at HD.") I didn't think their KDs were necessarily up to the same quality as a KD that a friend had recommended. I'm buying a lot of the basic material at HD (garbage disposal, tiles, etc). I haven't been too impressed with the few HD subcontractors I've dealt with, and IMO their labor rates are no savings off others' labor rates.

    I'm paraphrasing, but I think CR sums it up best -- consistent but not necessarily highest quality at HD and Lowe's, wildy inconsistent (the contractor you invite for dinner, and the contractor you sue) at independents.

    FWIW, in my neighborhood the fight against a local HD has been spearheaded by the owner of a medium box store, which I don't see as a David v Goliath issue at all!

  • iamnodiy
    16 years ago

    The big box and local guys both serve a purpose depending on what you need. For my basement I purchased Lows in stock cabinets and prefab laminate counter. I used the 10% coupon and saved money. When we remodled our bathroom I used a local showroom type contactor who had done work for my parents and they raved about them. I was very pleased and used them 2yrs later to replace a countertop in the kitchen. If I ever do a complete kitchen remodel I would u use them without getting other estimates. The service and attention to detail is worth every penny. The big box stores serve the contractor or the home owner who has the talent to D.I.Y the job.

  • mike_r_2000
    16 years ago

    My wife and I are just gearing up to remodel our kitchen. I posted awhile back about what people thought of free standing cabinets and got a pretty positive response.

    Someone above was mentioning how it seems that with a big box store you're going to be one of so many orders to go through there it seems hard to believe that you'll get the kind of attention and treatment you'd want with a substantial kitchen remodel. Considering there is a Revy, Home Depot and Canadian Tire on one lot quite close to me I feel like this applies all the more. They MUST have some incredible volume to afford to be all situated in one place (though I haven't really looked at the other two compared to HD - took a quick look there but had already heard from friends who had so-so experiences).

    I've found a local store here in Toronto called Greentea Design that does some really unique stuff, notably a line of free standing kitchen cabinets. They don't actually do installation, but I've been talking with them, getting some stuff sorted out as far as how this remodel will go, and they've been really helpful. I feel we've been getting just the sort of individual attention we deserve. Also looking forward to having a kitchen with a really unique style - going to have some custom pieces made since we have an old home.

  • jscout
    16 years ago

    For what it's worth, we've had nothing but great experiences with HD vs. locals. We had our windows replaced through them. Not only was the quote the best, but the service from the installer was first rate. We had one issue from the manufacturer and it was taken care of. Before considering them for the windows job, we had actually allowed HD to install the gutters as a trial. Their quote on the gutters was also the best available and the installers were great.

    Conversely, we also installed new siding after the windows project. In that case, we got a quote from a local quy that was much better than HD. The guy lives in my town and had done several houses in my neighborhood. So we were comfortable that he wasn't a fly-by-night. Well the job went well and this was during the fall. In the spring, I noticed that one of the siding panels popped loose. Repeated calls to the installer netted no results.

    The point is it can be a mixed bag.

    Oh, one other consideration is that I was able to finance both HD projects interest free for 18 months on the entire balance. All I paid was a $500 deposit. Sure, the interest accrued, but we got around the burden by setting aside money throughout the time and paying it all off two months before the interest free period expired.

    The local guy wanted the balance paid in full with cash on the day that he finished. It was a Friday and he wouldn't even wait until Monday. I had to go out of my way to get out of work early to go to the bank because he demanded to be paid that night. It was kind of uncomfortable walking out of the bank with all that cash and getting home. Not that I live on the bad side of town or anything, but you just never know these days.

    In my area, the contractors that my local HD uses seem to be very good. I talked the head of the crew that installed my windows and he said they loved subbing for HD. They didn't mind getting paid a little less in exchange for letting HD deal with customer/product issues.

  • kitredo
    16 years ago

    Timely topic for me. I am really proud to say that I used all local folks for everything. My cabinets came from about 20 miles from where I live, so the fuel to get the to me was min. I ordered my drawer pulls from a local hardware retailer specializing in pulls. I did order two things online, the sink and the faucet.

    But here something else. A local salvage store removed all my cabinets and countertops FOR free! The cabinets will be used again so the only thing from the kitchen going into the landfill are the old countertops. And did I mention, they did this for FREE and will be sending me a tax reduction receipt!

  • kailuamom
    16 years ago

    I had to chime in - I got bids from HD and two smaller shops. One smaller shop sold me on his service and standards. His big pitch was the warranty and how he would be available to fix issues, rather than the anonimity of the big box. He really seemed to know his stuff. I liked the look of his cabinets, even if they were more than HD. The HD designer had been wonderful and spent three appointments finalizing my plan.

    I ended up going with the small shop and paying $4,000 more while eliminating some of the bells and whistles.

    I have totally regretted that decision!!!

    I ordered my cabinets on 12/29/06. I was advised that they would arrive 4/15/07, so I had contractor all lined up. well, cabinets arrived 3/13. We had nowhere to store them so moved them into the family room, and moved the family out. After review of the cabinets, we found some quality issues. Advised cabinet guy within the week. We were leaving the country for a two week vacation, I wanted the replacement order in before we left, so we could have them ASAP. The order didn't get in until we were back in town mid-April. We finally received the replacements 7/1, after they were promised, so we had started demo. We found a problem with a refrigerator panel that was split. As we hadn't noticed right away, they wouldn't replace or credit us.

    OK - we moved on fromn this finished the kitchen, moved out, moved tenants in. One of the 24" sink doors split in November. It was a warranty item. My tenant just received the replacement 4/28 - wrong size.

    This is ridiculous. I am positive I would have had a better experience with HD.

    The moral of the story....there is no one size fits all right answer. If I had to do it over again, I would check more references if using a smaller guy.

  • neesie
    16 years ago

    It never occured to me to look for granite at a Big Box store! I was there looking for sinks and faucets after I picked out my granite. I DID see some of their samples of their granite and they were quite small, general pieces. I wasn't too impressed with their sinks and less with the faucets. Most were mounted too high to see if they had the mounting plates (which I didn't want) and none of them were working mounted so you could see how long the pull-outs extended. Even the boxes on display did not contain this information. The finishes looked pretty beat up too, which is making me think that I'll probably stay with the dreaded chrome.

    Now the specialty plumbing supply store was a different experience. Some of their faucets were hooked up to water and even the ones that weren't were at least displayed so you could pull down or pull out their nozzles. The difference was amazing! I saw different models and colors of blanco silgranits that previously I only saw on the internet. Very impressive! I didn't price the sink at HD because I couldn't find a blanco on display. I might have been able to special order it but it is very hard to get good customer service there. I couldn't wait to get out of the big box store. Like others, I would rather support a small business. My husband has owned and operated a small business for almost 30 years and people tell him all the time they come back for the SERVICE.

  • ne_flyingdiver
    15 years ago

    If I had to do over, I would go w/ the small guys. I'm having nothing but problems w/ Lowe's. The installers completely messed up the original cabinets (note if the installers come w/ all new tools don't open the doors). It took 2 weeks to get to the solution, ordering some new cabinets and all new door fronts. I have waited another month to get the order. We had the new installers in today and the order is wrong. They ordered the wrong finish. You would think after a big ooops, Lowe's would double check the order before placing and again after receiving the cabinets.
    I think Edlakin said it correctly, "i would never purchase something like cabinets from a big box store where my order is just one of hundreds they'll process that week. when employees are dealing with large volumes of orders, that's when mistakes get made because it's "just another order" and who cares if it holds up the process another month. "
    Robin

  • lowspark
    15 years ago

    it seems the private dealers charge no more, and frequently less, than the big box stores and offer better service.

    This is something I learned on this forum, thankfully before I'd shelled out any $$.

    And I'll add to this, not only comparable or better price, and better service, but also more choices. I had NO idea that I could even HOPE to afford anything from a small kitchen shop. I was certain that HD/Lowes was my only avenue. Which meant KraftMaid or Thomasville cabinets because that's pretty much all those two offered when I was shopping.

    Thanks to this forum, I discovered a whole world of other cabinet brands which were not only within my price range but that offered options I could not get with KM or TV, not the least of which was FRAMELESS cabs. (I know KM has a frameless line now but they didn't in 2004.)

    My frameless Brookhaven cabs with more than one optional item that KM didn't offer cost me about 10% more than KM at HD would have. On top of that I got a KD who REALLY knew her stuff and an installer who worked for the shop (not a contractor whose name came up next in line at HD) who was meticulous and did an excellent job.

    I've read many stories here of big box store experiences. There have been lots of good experiences but so many more bad ones AND so many more of the bad stories posted concern big box stores than small shops. Based on that, I will stick with small shops for any and all future cabinet needs.

  • laurmela
    15 years ago

    When we went to do our kitchen, I made an appt at Lowes and HD. Actually I tried to make an appt at Lowes, they never called me back! They guy at HD was recommended by a friend that had just remodeled and I liked her kitchen. He was great! We measured our smallish kitchen and had our friend that is a contractor that was going to do the install measure as well. I ordered my cabinets through HD, but we installed with our friend. We did the demo.

    WE ended up getting Corian counters through HD and their sub was awesome. I would never have them install the cabinets though, they wanted as much for the install as they did for the cabinets!

    I love my kitchen and would not change a thing.

    My dear friend went with a local guy and what was supposed to take 3 months took 10! Nothing but headaches for her.

  • sherilynn
    15 years ago

    I do not have time to read all of this, but want to encourage you to peruse and search this site for lawsuit, shoddy cabinets, etc. There are quite a few of us that ended up in court because we hired the wrong person.

    Knowing all that I know now, and knowing how the courts operate, I would never give my good CASH money to any small business again. NEVER.

    Now, IF you use a credit card and have a GOOF-PROOF, most excellent contract with every dot and tittle expressed, numbered, named, excellent drawings and inspiration photos all signed by you AND the cabinet maker so there is no mistaking exactly what you want or expect at the end of the contract, and have a finished sample door style and color (usually half goes to you, half goes to the cabinet maker), THEN and only then would I consider doing business. The credit card company will do and CAN do what no court will ever do without it costing you big dollars, the CC Company can credit you back for bad cabinets or not being satisfied. You see, the small guy has a contract with the CC co. and he is not guaranteed money "no matter what" he does.

    My case in point is just as suggested you do above, however, I paid CASH. I won in court, but CabFiascoGuy (as I call him here on GW) was incorporated and changed his business name. I would have had to hire another company to chase down his assets. The judge just said to call it even and we both go our own way. I got shoddy cabinets with a hideous finish, not as I ordered, crappy paint job, appliances did not fit, etc. (research my name). I am almost THREE YEARS OUT and am just now finishing my kitchen. I have hired five people to help do different aspects. Repainted four times (another story, but I ended up finishing them myself). Had to have all cabinets taken down, modified, reinstalled. 34 or so new doors ordered (all with a profile I HATE and did not choose.) .

    So, knowing how crappy it is to get involved with a company with not much to lose except a business name...is not anything I will EVER do again. I will MAKE myself be happy with something from a big box store. An extra month to wait for cabinets should something have to be reordered??? PUH=LEEZE!!! I have the patience of a saint now. I'm so patient now, I haven't bought a new car in almost 7 years because I'm willing to wait until the new models come out...then for a spring sale...then year end...and so on. I was NEVER like this before this cabinet fiasco.

    Thanks for listening. Be cautious. Even "nice people" can end up in court. Desperate people can do despearate things. Promise you the moon for the right price and persuade you to do business. I cannot afford to ever make the same mistake twice.

    PS. If a local guy will do business with about 25% down (using cc still), then I would be willing to pay cash once the cabinets were installed and I was smiling. This is about the only scenario I could agree with using a small cabinet maker.

  • laxsupermom
    15 years ago

    I tend to support local businesses. All my flooring is from a local family owned and operated floor store. The bulk of my food budget goes to two little hole in the wall grocery stores. Having said that, I went with KM cabinets from Lowes.

    I had been planning on going to a local cabinet shop for shaker style maple cabinets. One of my friends was finallizing details w/ the KD at Lowes, so I was wandering around and found a door I fell in love with - a mission style cherry cabinet w/ walnut pegs. Not the picture in my head, but it was love at first sight. The door was from the KM CrossCreek line, a Lowes exclusive line. After reading the thread on KM defects, I'm a little scared, but hopeful.

    I think helping local businesses is important, but should be balanced w/ getting what you want too.

  • holligator
    15 years ago

    One important distinction that I haven't seen made in this thread is between the local company that orders from the same manufacturers as the big box stores and the local company that makes the cabinets themselves.

    I ended up going with a small, independent cabinet maker, and I could not be happier. The quality and craftsmanship of his cabinets far exceeded the quality at the local showrooms and big boxes, and he charged less than half the price! Best of all, I could get exactly the kitchen I wanted and was not restricted by any "standard" sizes. All my space is used for storage, not fillers. I could modify the layout any way I desired with no concern about whether some manufacturer could do what I wanted.

    After my headaches with the KD at a local showroom, I remember asking my cabinet guy if I could have my pantry cabinets 18" deep (the KD couldn't get 18" base cabinets, so he told me the bottoms would have to be 24"). The cabinet guy told me "if you want them 19.25" deep, you can have that--you just tell me what you want." That's the moment I realized that I could really design MY kitchen the way I wanted it to be, not the way some manufacturer limited it.

    When there was a problem with a door (a problem he noticed that I probably never would have), he came out two days--not two months--later with a new door that he went back to his shop and made for me. Far beyond "making the sale", this guy took real pride in his work.

    If my only choice were between a big box store and a local company, assuming the local had a solid reputation and the prices were at least comparable, I would probably always go with the local company for all the reasons others have listed. But if my choices included a local craftsman, the choice would be far easier.

  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
    15 years ago

    I would never go with the local HD. I have heard nothing but horror stories about their folks they use for installation. When I compared their items to Lowe's, HD was higher.

    That said, I wouldn't go to Lowe's either. I have also heard horror stories about them as well. I know I have my own as far as my appliances go and they won't be getting my business again. They have delayed me and my contractor with their total incompentence for at least another month to six weeks.

    I went with a local KD and contractor. The KD cabs came in at a slightly higher rate than Shurs (or however you spell it) from Lowes. However, they are better cabinets and the finish is gorgeous! The installer was incredible. For a tiny kitchen he was here two full days and will be back again for a third to adjust the doors and drawers. He made sure everything was level and plumb. Trust me, my kitchen is far from level and plumb.

    Since I work an hour from home, my KD closes at 5 (although is open on Saturday for a brief period of time), he was willing to come over to my house whenever I wanted and stayed late at work a number of times while we were going through the design. Forget the big box stores. In the long run, they are not worth it unless you need a nut or bolt.

  • cambro5
    15 years ago

    I started out with a local kitchen and bath place but felt they were too pushy, then went to HD and Lowes for layout suggestions. Also spoke to a local remodeling company where the guy came out and spent an hour telling me how great his company is, THEN he looked at my kitchen - his bid was HUGE!! I ended up at a local lumber and home store place (somewhat like HD but a family run, local business). The process is probably quite similar to the big boxes, but I didn't feel like a number. I did go to a local flooring dealer because I didn't like the floors the home place had on offer.

  • larrylwill
    15 years ago

    We first went to HD then Lowes, I also looked online for knock down cabs. Then I searched the internet for cab makers in my area. We live in a small town. I was shocked to find about 15 cab makers whiten 25 miles. I visited about 10. Most places stapled the drawers and the drawers were plywood with the edges not laminated. Many used particle board carcasses. Most shops had between 3 and 20 employees. The bigger they were the more assembly line they were. I chose the place that in my opinion had the best quality. Dove tailed drawers standard, all hardwood drawers, finished plywood interiors, Maple plywood carcasses. His company was 3 people. The owner was the carpenter, one helper and his wife did the staining. He was a 3rd generation cab maker, his 2 brothers also had their own cab business and shared suppliers to keep the prices down.
    His estimate from my plans was in the low 1/4 of all estimates. He came to the house and made suggestions bumping some up and out added better and more crown molding and didn't charge extra for any of it. No other company offered any ideas. I wanted ball bearing slides and he only charged what they cost him, no markup. I bought self close no slam slides for some drawers and he used them. The biggest downside I can see is you usually have to put 1/2 of the cost upfront he only dealt in cash or check and we sweated for 2 months that we wouldn't see the money anymore. With a larger company I wouldn't worry. We couldn't be happier with the end result.
    I too work at home and have a small business for the last 22 years. I have lost business to large companies with the words, you might not be in business in 10 years because your small. Most of them are out of business now with 100's of employees in each. That old adage doesn't hold water anymore. Several of the Home Depot type of stores have gone under, and I suspect more will follow. Too big and too much overhead.