where in Nj are you located? I had A&S building a pool in my neighborhood and it was a complete disaster! They totally screwed up their yard and they kept coming up with all kinds of extras... things you never would expect were hitting them left and right. A&S reduced this woman to tears when they refused to finish the pool until the extras were paid for with a certified check, and this was on a July day when it was over 90 degrees outside! can you believe them? I hope this doesn't happen to you... I'm getting ready to start the PB search here in north Jersey and am hoping to find a reliable reference or 2 from this forum.

Have the tiles started to fall off their pool yet? I've heard stories from a co-worker who knows about one pool built by A&S where the pool tiles started to fall off only 1 year after the pool was built!And they will not return phone calls and on and on.... I think they said that the tile problem wasn't theirs to fix, somebody else was responsible..

Your spa looks tiny. Why so small? And why are the skimmers being located on the far side of the pool? I was told it is best to keep them out of view as much as possible.

Looks great! You have a beautiful yard that's going to look even better when your pool is complete. FOUR of my immediate neighbors used A&S and they all had positive experiences. (I would have used them but decided on fiberglass.) Good luck.

tlbb

Soccermom97- I am in central NJ. Sorry to hear about your neighbor. So far it's been good for me. I think that in the slower season you are more likely to have an easier build. Less demand for the workers for one thing. In the spring their schedules are packed with people wanting to swim the first hot day we get...which means people have to wait their turn, which can be long! That's why we chose this time of year, and so far it's working out nicely. I wish you the best of luck finding someone you feel comforatable using. Just remember if we all based decisions on one persons bad experience.. no one would be in business.

Stret0026- Small spa? You think... 40 sq ft is plenty big for our family. How big is your spa ??
As far as the notches you are referring to, only one is a skimmer, the other is a light and the other a booster pump will be going in. I do agree with whoever told you that it's best to keep them out of view, but I prefered to have one on each side. Are your's only on one side ??

Tlbb- Thanks. I look forward to the finished product next year. I am not worried about my PB at all, it's always nice to hear about good experiences though. My inlaws have had their pool 21 years now,..... by guess who. :)

Anyway, Day 2 , my rebar was completed today. Now I need to wait for my first inspection before plumbing starts. Looks good so far. I think if it weren't sooo cold out I'd go sit in my small spa! :)

Day 2 -Rebar

There are 2 skimmers framed out in your pool and they are both on the same side. Better check with the subcontractor who formed the pool, because the info you cite is wrong. The booster pump must be, by code at least 10' from water, so therefore it cannot be placed on the pool structure as you suggest. The light housing would not be notched out for at the top of the frame, only a skimmer or an autofill device would account for these. It appears that by placing 2 skimmers so close together on a pool that may have what? 120-130 perimeter feet of edge, means that the recirculation design may be taxed to be really efficient.All the suction at the surface of this pool is occurring in one small section of the pool. Not good. I agree, they should be placed on opposite sides of the pool whereby the flow rate on the surface is even and the return lines can better work in concert with the skimmers. No dead spots on the surface of the pool is best, this way there aren't any scummy areas that are stagnant when the pool pump is running. This tends to occur when a franchise PB relies on subcontrcators who have no knowledge of good recirculation design and simply put the skimmers in a location that is chosen for economy... their economy, not yours. My guess is that the filter location is to be set real close to the skimmers and therefore the amount of pipe and trenching can then be limited.
My last pool had a 64 square ft. spa which was great; all 3 " piping meant a high turnover rate for heating it up. A 40 sq. ft spa will be very difficult to properly install the anti-entrapment floor drains which require at least 36" of clear space between them. I would be very leary of having a spa built in my yard that didn't have properly spaced anti-entrapment floor drains, since I know how popular these spas are with the kids. It also seems very tight for family use. A&S will also not install spa jets in these spas and just use return fittings as their spa jets... real cheap.
Hopefully your experience will continue to go well. But my money is on you being treated like all the other A&S customers, who pay about 90% of the contract price to get about 40% of the work done. Then in the Spring they start to avoid finishing the job because there is no real money left to collect from you. Their habit is to just chase checks, big ones first then the little ones. In the Spring they will be chasing the big checks as they will want to start more and more jobs. This will put a strain on their subs and the wining will get louder and louder with each warm day that passes without plaster and water. This is why they are so on top of things right now, thy're getting paid the big checks now. Wait til you only owe them 10% or less, see how important your job is to them then.

THANKS Stret0026 (aka Mark??) I noticed your other post POOL DESIGN NJ, you SURE do seem to know an awful lot about pool design for someone just getting quotes??. Did you just register 3 days ago on this site to basically bad mouth A&S, or just ADVERTISE Carribean Blue,(hmmm...maybe your own company)
I appreciate your concern for MY pool, but I really am okay with the choices I have made. I have enough deck jets and returns that there won't be "stagnant water" and as far as your payment statement, which is WRONG, I do not owe a dime more until March of next year, no matter how far along they get.
Obviously you are having a really hard time with who I chose to build my pool, oddly enough... so maybe you should just not read my posts since they seem to bother you. I really didn't create this post to talk about how bad A&S is... I'm here to share my PBing experience, which BTW so far has been great !

Please understand that I don't care who builds your pool. I am neither bothered or upset that you chose A&S to build your pool. And do not mistake my posted comments as some sort of concern I have for you or your pool either. I don't even know you, but recognize that by your comments,you do not understand the process as well as I do. I've been down this road before.. I was simply pointing out the obvious flaws in your comments (based on the photos too.)Oh yeah, deck jets as a recirculating device... a new one! What do they have? 6 gpm each?
I do know alot about building pools, as I have had 3 gunite and shotcrete pool built for me in the last 10 years, in 3 different states! I've also built 2 new homes in that time as well. My job requires that I relocate alot. I know enough about the process to make the comments I've made, but by no stretch do I consider myself an expert. I ask a lot of questions and I'm savvy enough to know when I'm not getting a straight answer. So far I've been impressed by Mark and his designer because they have given me straight talk and fair prices. They have also presented to me an outstanding Plan of my project that leaves very few questions unanswered. No I am not an expert, I'll leave that for Mark and his guys from Caribbean Blue who happen to appeal to me right now.
And, no, I am not Mark.

I just had my first PB interview with B&B Pools from Rockland County. They service NY and north Jersey, but their prices seem very very high. Anyway, the salesman had few nice things to say about A&S, he said that they don't remove the rebound from their gunite operations and that's why their steps always crack and it's why the tiles fall off their pools! What is rebound? Does anybody know what this guy is talking about? He also said that the pool piping should be rigid PVC not flex pipe, whatever that means. I'm overwhelmed already and interview # 2 is only 2 hours away, somebody please help!

See link, and search for all occurances of "rebound." Rebound is gunite that does not stick (i.e. waste).

-Gorilla

Here is a link that might be useful: Rebound

Well yesterday was Day 3 and my plumbing is 90% complete. The heater is so big compared to our last pool. I am not sure if they run the gas now or wait until it's closer to completion. The subs were all friendly and went over the locations of the deck jets, shelf bubbler, umbrella sleeve and spa jets before they began. I wound up putting 2 jets in the spa floor. The process is going faster then I anticipated. I wonder what the temp cutoff is for shotcrete or if that only pertains to the plastering?? Well, I hope everything settles nicely for the deck pour next spring.

Soccermom97- Not being from North Jersey I have not heard of B&B, but what did you find high about their prices? I am not surprised the salesman had nothing nice to say about a competitor of theirs. I hope you had better luck with your 2nd interview.

It's cold and wet outside but here is a far shot of all the plumbing lines...

The B&B guy showed me photos of some A&S jobs that were badly done. His claim was that their mistakes were brought to his service department for repairs (after A&S refused)and that's when the rebound discussion kicked in. Falling tiles, cracked steps and peeling plaster were among the problems he was pointing out in the photos. In one photo, there was collapsed leaking pipe (flex?) shown in a trench that was filled with rock and garbage that was put on top of the pipes by the subcontractor A&S used. His point was that all pipe should be rigid PVC and that the trenches should be backfilled with sand.
My 2nd appointment called to reschedule, So I'm seeing him tuesday evening.
Your pool looks good!, Too bad the filter and things are so visible are they going to move them for you? I wouldn't want them so close to my pool, I think that their ugly to look at!

Soccermom97.... Rebound is a big deal, don't underestimate the imoportance of having it all shovelled out of your pool and discarded. If it is left in the pool then problems will definetly arise, just like the ones your salesguy mentioned.
If anybody tries to convince you that it is ok to leave it in the shell, say in the steps or benches, don't believe them. Get a different PB if this is the case.

Soccermom97- They are an eye sore! lol but actually is not as close as it may look. It's about 15 feet back from where the cement walk will end. We are going to screen it with shrubs or something when the weather's warm again. Our patio will be to the left and closer to the house so we chose that area so it's not too far from the spa, but far enough away from the seating & where the poolhouse will be. I was told that the spa works better when equip. isn't too far.

Maybe it's just me, but I honestly find it strange that your PB carries photos of bad work from another PB, as he's claiming. That just seems a little off to me. I think I read another post recently about a PB with similar antics, not sure if it were a NJ PB though.

As far as the pipe statement I am sure that someone will be able to answer your question on the differences and which is used for what.

Yeah, I thought it strange that he brought the pictures too! But he made it part of his presentation; quality vs. crap. He made alot of good points... subs vs. in-house building crews and the need to oversee every stage of construction so the result is a well built pool that holds up against the elements... I have to say that the guy made a lot of sense to me but his prices seemed kinda high for my budget. What kind of pipe are they putting in your pool? I can't tell from the photograph.

Quality vs. Crap LOL! I love it! Hey soccermom, who else are you interviewing as your PB?

to stret0026, I am meeting with the design guy from Caribbean Blue, I think his name is Jack. I'll report back to you after the meeting. and BTW, the Quality vs. Crap thing was the name on his ringbinder! He probably had 20 or 30 examples of poor construction techniques (not all were by A&S, some were Blue Heaven). He also had some testimonial letters that expressed gratitude and the like.... He was stressing the fact that his company was a custom pool builder, from design to completion no corners cut....I liked the guy, he was very funny... but I don't have enough fun tickets to afford him!

Soccermom- Ours is not the flexable PVC pipe, I think that type has ribs on it. I agree that your project needs to be overseen carefully. I've been lucky enough to have a project manager assigned to our project, he has been involved since pre-dig. I guess that since we do have all subs working, he's the responsible one.

moocat said:

"They are an eye sore! lol but actually is not as close as it may look. It's about 15 feet back from where the cement walk will end. We are going to screen it with shrubs or something when the weather's warm again. Our patio will be to the left and closer to the house so we chose that area so it's not too far from the spa, but far enough away from the seating & where the poolhouse will be. I was told that the spa works better when equip. isn't too far. "

The equipment should'nt be too far from the pool. When it it is, it's got to work harder and is less effective.

You're so lucky to have the luxury to be able to place the equipment where you did! Like many others here, our last house we had to shoehorn the pool in. The equipment was right next to the house, and when it ran for hours and hours a day it was irritating to have the windows open. Probably aggravated the neighbor's too as I know the sound of their pool equipment going on at irregular hours got to me sometimes.

We know several families with 'estate' sized lots like yours. Their pool equipment, also like yours, is away from the house and beautifully landscaped so you don't even know it's there.

Wow, Your yard is beautiful. Can't wait to see the pool when it's finished and landscaped. It is going to be awesome. Keep the pics coming.
Sue

Thanks Banan_Fanna......We are thankful for our lot, we have an acre of backyard to play with. Our first home was on less then a 1/2 acre, with a pool and no place for much more... so we made sure when we built this home we got the largest lot we could find. :) Not that bigger is better... just better for us! The equipment will do it's disappearing act when spring comes...no need to move it anywhere.

Bell376- Thanks Sue. Spring seems so far away right now and until then it just won't feel finished. (Oh but then it will be another project! LOL ) . Our landscaper is working on a plan to incorporate everything nicely...that will hopefully give it the finishing touch. :) The pics will continue.. but without the leaves soon! LOL

moocat.. which A&S center did you purchase from? Who was your sales rep? If they cover my area, I may contact them about a quote, as it seems that you are getting a good job from them. Did they offer any end of year discounts?

Soccermom, please make sure you if you are getting a spa that you check out the link below in the forum. There are photos here of Caribbean's plumbing for the spa. Notice the double lines for more flow. Double piped floor drains. Also they use true spa jets, with larger piping and pump that gives the water true spa action. We have friends who have other co's spas and they use only regular return fittings, single lines, no double piping on the safety drains...The difference in performance of the standard CB spa is night and day to what others give you. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples.

Here is a link that might be useful: Spa photos

I have Jack from CBP coming over tonight. I'll be sure to ask about the spa piping. Thanks for the tip; I'll post my reaction when the meeting ends.

Met with Jeff of Caribbean Blue Pools tonight. The meeting lasted about an hour. He surprised me with photos that he had taken of my backyard earlier in the day before our meeting started, while it was still daylight outside. He also had a notepad with grade shots(?)that were made with his laser (what's a laser?)... He said he couldn't give a quote on our project unless he knew the lay of our land first. My husband was eating all of this up, Jeff was so prepared for us!
Anyway, he answered all of our questions in detail and said that within 1 week I would have a design and detailed estimate presented to us in our living room. As he packed up, he jokingly said that he would make it very hard for us to say no... After seeing his portfolio and listening to him talk about good design and all, I believed him. We both felt like we were in good hands while he answered our many questions.
He gave us a range of cost, which seemed reasonable, but my husband couldn't get him to be any more specific, despite many tries. Jeff just said that he needed some time to pull together the design, before a price could be known. So we backed off..
He also deflected any talk about other PB's He wouldn't say anything pro or con about anybody but Caribbean Blue Pools. We liked that and are anxious to see what he comes up with. I'll keep posting with updates.
Moocat... Can you please tell me which A&S office is building your pool? If they are not the same one that my neighbor used, I'm inclined to give them a shot at my job, as I can see from your posts that they've been treating you pretty good. I want to get 3 estimates before I make any decisions. Did they give you a landscape plan too?
Stret0026... was Jeff the guy from Caribbean you met with? Have you made any decisions on your project yet?

Soccermom........ Yes, Jeff is the one I met with. He prepared the Plan that my wife and I were so impressed with. He wouldn't leave it with us without a commitment, which we weren't too happy about. This weekend he will show us some work he's done and then we will make our decision.

hmmm.. creates a plan but will not leave it without a commitment? Seems odd to me.

Sounds like he does not want to afford you the opportunity to study the design in detail before signing. There has to be a reason they do that... and I do not think the reason is Intellectural Property.

-Gorilla

Sorry moocat... my last response was a hijack of your thread. For what it's worth, I am enjoying the pictures and your commentary of your build process... keep 'em coming.

-Gorilla

Looks really nice, Moocat! It would be beautiful to build a not-too-high wall in front of your equipment using the same paver/block material you have on your patio. You could integrate some seating with a firepit there facing the house. It could be really pretty! Our equipment is situated like yours and we have a wall in front of it. We run it in the middle of the night into the early morning, but on a the few occasions we having it running while we are outside, we can't hear it at all.

Gorilla. The plan was complete and well done. It was by far more than we expected in terms of detail and professional design. The other PB plans were just a cartoon of a pool, very little to go with. Jeff explained to us that he would bring back the plan any time, his policy is not to leave it without a commitment (he's been burnt before, he said). Being an engineer myself, I respected that. It was disappointing because I couldn't digest the entire design in just one short hour of meeting time with him. I have since scheduled another meeting with him on Saturday when we can review the plans more and then we're going to go see some of the projects he has in our town. I want to check the qualiy of their work.

Hijacked I am...but by who?? lol I actually think I am going to just start a new thread when I get "shot-creted". Unless one of the hijackers want it still?? LOL

Gorilla- Thanks I will continue and try to stay above the water.. lol

Houseful- Thank you and that is a great idea to do with the pavers. It would really tie the patio into the pool area too. I will keep it in mind when I choose the stamped cc colors. ;)

Well both inspections passed :) I was supposed to have the gunite done today, but the rain killed that. It would have been nice to not have to water it though.. Anyway the gunite sub came by this morning to look at the job. He said they were going to come tomorrow or Saturday, "weather dependent".
I brought that word "Rebound" up and played dumb to see what his response would be. He explained what is was and said they will make a pile of it beside the pool during the process.
I guess now I just have to decide if I should discard it, or make a big logo of my PB out of it, for the pool entry... :D LOL

If you need a plug for CB, I'm here for you. I fulfilled a lifelong dream to have a pool 3 years ago, and it has been the best thing we ever did (my DH wasn't thrilled about spending the $$ but he uses it the most now!) Since the pool has the most state-of-the-art, efficient equipment out there, I spend 0 time on maintenance. CB was using only salt water generators as standard while A & S and others will still giving clients chlorine tabs! Mark took me around to see plenty of pools back then. And if there is EVERY a question I have, they address it immediately...3 years later! Unheard of in this business....

moocat,

What's the status/progress?

-Gorilla

Hey moocat, saw your finished pool in another thread (did not want to hijack that thread). Looks great!! You should post a finished pic here.

-Gorilla