Heater vs. heat pump, the great debate! At least in our house.

16 years ago

So in May we installed our vinyl liner pool here in NW NJ. We were fine all summer with no heat other than the sun. But now, after a lot of rain and cooler temps, our pool has not climbed above 70 degrees. Way to cold for the likes of me. Even the kids are a bit cautious. I understand how a heat pump works, sort of like an AC but opposite right? I just don't know what would be best for us. A heater would require propane which isn't a problem. Sooo confusing. PLEASE HELP!!!

Thanks, flowergirl232

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (8)

kitchenshock
16 years ago
Heater all the way, especially where you live. I have had both and would never ever install a heat pump on my pool ever again. Best Heat pump you can find is 135k BTU, compare that to a 400k BTU gas heater. In the winter my pool gets to 65 and the heat pump running all week can get it to 82deg (I live in FLorida, so its not real cold during the day). This is a 118kBTU pump. Its even worse for use with a hot tub. My hot tub in the winter takes 2hours to get to 98degrees. When I had a 400k gas heater on my last pool, same size hot tub, and it took 15min. I believe the gas heaters are cheaper to purchase then the electric ones too.
mcoughlin
16 years ago
I have debated the same thing for my project.
I live in MA. I am curious kitchenshock....what is your energy bill like running 400K BTU's ?
The heat pump has an initial cost thats higher but I am pretty sure the energy costs are dramatically different.
You have had both so what did you see in energy bills?
Related Discussions
Geothermal heat pump vs air source heat pump vs gas
Q
Comments (27)
Air source heat pumps don't make sense in areas where winter temps frequently fall below 32 degrees. Once you get below freezing, you will be running the auxillary heat a lot. If you decide to go the air source route, you will want a second stage gas fired auxillary heat. I live in the mid-atlantic region in the mountains and selected GT. That choice was coupled with a blown cellulose insulation package. My other choice was a propane heat/electric AC with a foam insulation package. Both options were roughly the same install cost. Both would have provided similar energy efficiency. At the time we selected, propane was 3.75 a gallon and rising (with no end in sight) so we went with GT. The delta cost for the GT system (above the cost for a HE propane heat and electric AC system) was $15,000 for the heat pumps and loop plumbing (including pumps) plus $17,000 for digging the pit. The pit excavation should not have cost as much as it did but it is a 12 ton system and the hole was gigantic (120' x 48' x 6'). We live on a mountain and hit a bunch of boulders that required special equipment to get out. Rocky soil also required a 1' base of stone dust to cover the loop piping. The total cost for the GT HVAC system including all ducting was $50,000 plus the pit excavation cost of 17K. It is a large investment and I would only recommend it if you plan to live in the house a very long time. My heating bills are great - maybe 300 dollars maximum a month during peak winter for an 8500 square foot home (5900 living and the rest a condiitoned but unfinished basement). Make sure that whatever equipment you choose can be maintained by more than 1 very qualified HVAC company who has many years of GT experience. In my area there is only 1 GT company who has over 20 years of experience but I am stuck with them for maintenance. There have been times when I wanted to fire them but cannot. Local competition is a good thing. Also - if you build a tight home make sure that you consider ventilation and dehumidification in the HVAC design. I wound up adding both a whole house dehumidifier and energy recovery vent after we moved in becuase we had basement moisture issues as well as stale air in the winter. Tight homes are great for energy efficiency but can create health issues too. It is easy to deal with as long as you plan for it. Good luck with the build.
...See More
Up front costs of Geothermal heat pump vs. other heating methods
Q
Comments (79)
It boggles my mind that people think 10 years is a long time. After installation, you pay each month (including financing) about what you were already paying anyway (probably less). You do it for 10 years, (especially with all the new government incentives, rebates, and low-interest financing now available) and after 10 years you're paying a ridiculously paltry amount for heat. Of course it makes sense. Think of the payback over 20 years once that loan is paid off! Even if you only end up paying even 1/2 of the normal cost over that period (including the cost of your system and electric), you're still saving substantially. I know not everyone lives in a home for that long, but seeing low energy bills does increase home values. I've seen homes sold almost immediately with their main advertising point being their geothermal system even in our horrible present climate while others still linger on the market. Not only that, but why not decrease your monthly bills slightly (before the loan is paid off)? Slightly lower bills, a higher sales price which will pay off the rest of that loan - still makes sense. We had someone come out to our house and they specifically calculated everything from current estimated heating costs, heating/cooling with geo, then savings/payback period. This was a full service option, including thermostats, etc. Finding that should not be difficult. One argument I saw above made no sense. If it really is worth insulating your home to use a normal system, it is a no-brainer to insulate your home using geo. Whether you decide to use geo or not, you can't say, "Well, normal is better, because we insulated, too." That makes no sense. Insulate either way. Then compare. The financial analysis does not make much sense, either. Yes, it would be wonderful if we could just stop paying the oil company, live without heat, and invest that money! Realistically, while you could want to put away the whole $25,000, you really are still using it for heat either way over those 14 years as projected. Geo, with the loan, electric, etc, will cost about the same each month as heat before the loan is paid off, so you can't just pretend that money could be invested elsewhere. Use it upfront with geo, use it over several years with oil, it makes no difference. That money is being spent on heat. Should it be spent on something worthwhile, or just, at the end of 10 years, have you still spending the same amount on more heat with oil? Geo will typically initially cost you a little less (including the loan and electricity) per month than you would be paying otherwise, then suddenly drop dramatically to only the cost of using the system as soon as that loan is paid off. That's money you would have spent anyway each month with your normal system (even though some of it went to financing, it is still less that what you would have paid for oil). Then suddenly, once the loan is gone, you actually DO have perhaps $1,000 a year in money saved that you can invest if you wish over 10 years. If, with financing costs, it does cost more per month than your normal heating system, that's one thing; but if not, the argument that it is wasting money is not valid. You're spending it anyway. Might as well spend it on something that will, in the future, save you tons of money. (Not just a little, a lot.)
...See More
Heat pump vs propane heat in higher elevations?
Q
Comments (4)
Define very cold. It sounds like you may not be a candidate for a heat pump, unless you can afford a ground source heat pump. I replaced a propane furnace with an air source (convnentional) heat pump when propane hit $3.00/per gallon. But I am in Tennessee, and our electric rates are dirt cheap compared to most places. Check into ground source heat pumps, which is the more accurate name. Most people call them geothermal heat pumps. They extract heat from the ground and aren't bothered of affected by outside air temperatures. Beware, they aren't cheap, but with escalating energy prices, they are worth considering.
...See More
Heat Pump vs Gas Furnace/AC - Help!!
Q
Comments (2)
It depends on where you are located geographically. I have what is called a dual fuel system--heat pump and natural gas. My heatng bills are about the lowest in my subdivision of 64 custom homes (the gentleman with radiant floor heat and two other guys that burn wood pay a little less). Folks in our subdivision that use natural gas furnaces only have much higher bills than mine. Folks that don't set their heat pump balance points have heating bills higher than mine. I set mine so the natural gas furnace doesn't kick on until about 25 degrees outside. I am well insulated with great windows, energy efficient and have a 3.5 tone HP for 2,981 sq. ft. 1.5 stories. Depends on your home envelope, too. Check your electric and natural gas rates which includes delivered price (i.e. total cost you paid for electricity including service charges divided by total KWH and total cost for gas including service charges divided by total therms or Cubic feet used to get your real world costs. In my case, natural gas needs to come down about 35 cents delivered price before it breaks even with my electric. Your rates will likely vary.
...See More
flowergirl232
Original Author
16 years ago
From my understanding, a heat pump is more expensive up front with lower energy costs and a heater is less expensive up front with greater energy costs. So kind of a wash unless you plan to use either a great deal. We would only be using it early and late in the season to extend our swimming season. I hope the experts weigh in on this. I would love to get more opinions.
steina64
16 years ago
A 400K BTU heater would use around 4 gallons of propane per hour; here that = $11.

Steve
kitchenshock
16 years ago
The heat pump is cheaper to operate if economics are your concern. However, if economics are your concern, I would recommend against any heater, because they are all expensive to run.

My preference is based strictly on performance and gas is the clear winner. If you have a hot tub, you will be very disappointed with the performance of your heat pump. You have to plan to use your spa with electric, where with gas, if you feel like enjoying a spa, you just press the heater button and 15min later your enjoying your self. With the heat pump, by the time it heats the tub, 2hours later, the mood has long passed.

The only thing my heat pump is good at is economically holding the pool at 86deg when the pool water is 75. That's about 2 months of the year for us in Florida. Any lower then 65 and it struggles to warm the water a lousy 15deg.
mike171
16 years ago
But if one does NOT have a hot tub and is only looking to extend the pool season from mid May to late September would'nt the HeatPump be suffice ? I also live in the NE (PA) and the air temps during that time are usually in the low to mid 60's. I understand that you would have to have the pump running constantly.
eileenlamp
16 years ago
Here's my 2 cents on the subject. We had a gas heater for our pool when we lived in Southern CA and now have an electric heat pump in Phoenix. In CA, the gas heater was the way to go. Gas is less expensive in CA. It took less time to heat the pool with a gas heater.
In Phoenix, we have the heat pump. We decided on the heat pump because we don't have a spa and only wanted to extend the season a month or so each way. So far (two years) it's worked out just great. In March we set the temp to 88 degrees and when the pool is on in the evening (lower rates) the heat pump is on. Yes, I know...everyone will say that the heat pumps only works with the sun, however we've had great results running it at night. In the morning the pool is ready to swim. Now...we do have to start this process about 3 days before we want to swim. So when the weatherman tells us that it will start to become warm, we start the heat pump. It costs very little to run if you run it during the evening hours. We're very happy with the heat pump.
Now, if we had a spa, that would be a different story. We would have to go with gas.
flowergirl232
Original Author
16 years ago
So what I am hearing here is the is no real answer. It depends on the individuals type of usage. I am beginning to think that for our specific use, a heater might be the way to go. Warming quickly for a party or for the kids to use after school in May, June and September. We also have no access to natural gas and would have to use propane.

Heater vs. heat pump, the great debate! At least in our house.

Comments (8)

kitchenshock

mcoughlin

Related Discussions

flowergirl232
Original Author

steina64

kitchenshock

mike171

eileenlamp

flowergirl232
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Heater vs. heat pump, the great debate! At least in our house.

Comments (8)

kitchenshock

mcoughlin

Related Discussions

flowergirl232Original Author

steina64

kitchenshock

mike171

eileenlamp

flowergirl232Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

flowergirl232
Original Author

flowergirl232
Original Author