ipe deck questions

17 years ago

first off you guys,and gals,are lifesavers for us diy people. we just finished framing our deck. we were going to use trex, but were unsure untill now. we have heard so many complaints about trex local , here in Lake Tahoe, about just about everything you can imagine. then i ran across this site.your members have given us so much good info.we have decided to use ipe thanks to all this good info. our deck is about 500 sf, L shaped,,10x30 across the back and 6x30 down the side. we framed the deck with 12 in. centers, figuring using trex. the deck across the back is about 18 in off the ground on the side it slopes to about 3 ft. we were going to use 5/4. we have good drainage underneath,sloping away,several inches of gravel.

1st question we have talked to several suppliers including george @east teak, and banner elk. they recomend using 1 in. because we are on 12 in. centers, now the price is considerable differance, and if i use 1 in. i can buy local and pick out pieces. (they only carry 1 in. and would have to order 5/4, almost a dollar a sf. dif. as well as about 600. dollar shipping. is 5/4 worth the price diff. in my situation?

2nd question marion at east teak up in washington state recomended sealing both sides before i install, what do you think?

i plan to face screw, possibly plug, i will have to see what it looks like before i go to that effort. snow could come most any day so time is wasting.

thanks again for your help, i will probably be back with more questions before i am done. Bob

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Comments (12)

gvgemtp
17 years ago
Bob,
I would not seal both sides but I would certainly think about using kiln dried ipe. Call me. george@eastteak
alanchad
17 years ago
I purchased my ipe from George.

Fantastic service and very good advice, before AND after the sale.

I would not consider anyone else.

(I am not related to him, LOL!)

Alan
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Hi, amiwhere. I also selected IPE to build my own deck. Absolutely no regrets now after about 6 months. (I built that one and only one deck... IPE Deck link below. It doesn't make me an expert like the contractors that build many decks and see many failures.) I used Anchorseal to avoid checking as is typically recommended. I put it on immediately after each cut. I was concerned about how it made the ends dark. Ironically, the sealer (Woodrich) didn't stain the ends as much. Now they are lighter. It looks ok and will likely be even less noticeable after the next staining. I just checked for checking. There is none at all. I didn't mind paying for the IPE but the idea of drilling into the face of it, at the price, seemed to be a sin. They say that plugs look "clean". I see IPE damaged with many spots... http://blog.eastteak.com/index.php/2009/05/qa-i-want-to-screw-and-plug-my-ipe-deck-what-do-i-need-to-know/ I had planned to fix problem spots with screws through the face but ended up avoiding that as well. I used Deckmaster underfasteners for overhangs such as the front of each step. It worked well but was very hard work. I had to use a rachet many times... not easy. The screws were able to screw into the IPE on their own because they are thick enough. However, IPE is so dense that the wood has nowhere to go. It cracks (mostly heard cracks, didn't see cracks) to make room for the screws. So I predrilled pilot holes. The screws were then able to drive through the fastener and IPE to poke up through the face. It takes some patience to drive them in just enough. I fastened most of the decking with Tigerclaw TC-Gs after using a router to cut groves for them. Some comment that they will fail over time. I don't have any failures to know what they are talking about yet. It apparently hasn't been long enough for mine to fail. I also don't understand exactly how the TC-Gs are suppose to fail. If the screws loosen up over time then they would likely be supplied with longer screws. Tigerclaw TC-Gs seem to be developed more recent then other clip designs. They seem to be thicker, SS, etc. Also, I was encouraged by how Timbertech endorsed them by starting to sell them as their Consealoc brand. TC-Gs automatically create a 3/16'' gap. I learned to like that given that moist air needs to escape out from under the boards to avoid cupping. The 3/16'' was apparently very consistent because I planned using that dimension and reality worked out to be the same. Something doesn't seem right about your comment of dirt and sand building up in the cracks so that weeds grow up. Are the boards so low to the ground that rain doesn't wash dirt away from the boards? IPE will cup if there isn't enough airflow under the boards. And, sand and dirt should be able to easily wash away to that space under the boards. Here is a link that might be useful: IPE Deck
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From as John Hayatt Calls it Im the "wallet" point of view...=-( ....so take it as you will ( I do get my hands dirty though and can play with the big boys), I used the Ipe clip Hidden Fastners and found them to be great on install and seem to be holding up just fine about a years and a half later. Ipe is a diffrent kind of work it takes a little patience and a bit of muscle. A good deck builder is good with his hands and should be able to build anything confidently. Go with some one you feel comfortable with. To hid the strings and ledger board Advanatge Trim and Lumber supplied me with 5/4 x8 and 5/4x12 I just had to cut them on site to fit. Bruce I checked out that site and it seems like to much work for me it looks like alot of pre-drill and screw, if I where you I would check out the Ipe Clip Hidden fastners I got mine at the place im always talking about Advantage Trim Take Care
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Ok Guy's...you should have got me last week when I was spending all my money!! Thanks for the info...thats the answer I wanted. I really did not know if that was a stupid question or not. John, You can bid...but I'm afraid the closest you will get to Mexico on my budget will be the margaritas I'll be making you when you are done!! Harry
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My contractor is building a ipe deck and did not use the correct drainage system underneath the decking. He was supposed to use Trex Rainsecape but used something else that is very unsightly underneath the beautiful ipe. I've asked him to remove the current drainage system which will require him to unscrew the ipe decking first. my concern is that when he rescrews the ipe boards back they will not have the same integrity/hold as they did when he did the screwed them in the first time. he's using SS screws. Should I be concerned or what should I make sure something is done to ensure the best possible hold? Will this compromise anything? thanks!
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brooklyndecks
17 years ago
xterra,

5/4x6 Ipe over joists spaced at 12" OC is insane. 1x6 is solid enough to span 20" oc, so go for it.

I never seal both sides of my Ipe boards, but it's not a bad idea. What is a bad idea is pre-sealing the top. You are going to walk on it, work on it...scratch it, plug it, etc. After all the abuse of deck building, you will need to sand the surface before you seal it.

the best plan for you is to:
1-determine the best side of each board
2-preseal the other side and both edges (not the top)
3-build your deck
4-sand the surface (RO sander with 50 grit paper)
5-seal the top, and both ends
6-fix a drink, and enjoy your deck (after the sealer has cured)

just my opinion (after building hundreds of ipe decks)

steve
xterra
Original Author
17 years ago
steve,

1x6 sounds good to me, it will cost me about 1500 less. george at east teak recommended using kiln dried ipe, i thought it was all kiln dried, am i wrong or is that standard? also are you saying to sand the entire top surface befor i seal? should i wait for spring? the temp. here is mid 60s day to mid 20s nights.sounds contrary to what i have been reading about sanding.

the year is slipping away, i started framing the deck in august but the fire season was kind of busy here and that kept me real busy. i finally finished this week, now to get my ipe, and yes the drinks on that deck sound good . I have seen yours, and johns decks on your websites and can tell you guys are pro's. thanks again

Bob
brooklyndecks
17 years ago
Bob,

I've never used kiln dried Ipe...I never checked the moisture content of the Ipe that I use, but I know it's gonna shrink if the deck gets full sun. I plan on it, and I space the boards accordingly...sunny decks at 1/16" and shady decks at 1/8". Kiln dried Ipe won't shrink...it'll expand...depending on the moisture level of your locale. I have to think that kiln dried costs more, as it's an extra process.
I'm not an expert in deck finishing...far from it, so i'll leave that to the experts. I do know Ipe, and you should sand your Ipe decking when you're done building, prior to applying the finish. How else can you eliminate the scratches, milling marks and sticker stains. If you don't know what those things are, you will when your Ipe arrives.

steve
rbfactor
17 years ago
Bob,

I am a fellow DIY'er who built a 400 sq ft Ipe deck so I thought I'd let you know about my experience. I ordered my Ipe in the fall and let it sit outside stacked, stickered and covered for a few months in order to let the wood acclimate. I wasn't sure if the wood was "kiln dried" so I took the extra precaution. I have had zero shrinkage and am quite happy with the results.

I took the extra time to plug and definitely do not regret the decision as the water has no place to pool and the deck dries very quickly. I used a 5" orbital sander prior to sealing and highly recommend it. You will be amazed at how well the sanding cleans up the wood.

I did seal the bottoms of the boards as I was laying down the deck by just reaching under each board after it was screwed in place. I'm not sure if it made a difference. I also used Anchorseal on the ends of each board but am disappointed at how it leaches out onto the top of the boards. If you use it, make sure to apply it only to the bottom 2/3 of each end.

Hope that helps! Good luck!
RB
xterra
Original Author
17 years ago
I talked to george today , got a good price for 1 in.ipe, good price, still beats local price delivered. I did talk to a dealer of mangaris,(red balu) who said he could sell me 5/4 delivered for 2.23 l.f. delivered . he said 5/4 is all they sell on the west coast. he did say it is kiln dried,which I am unable to find that in ipe. I cant find a lot of information about this on this site, have any of you pros used this, and how does it compare to ipe? I have to order tomorrow to get it here next week. any input will be appreciated.
john_hyatt
17 years ago
Thumbs down on the mangaris for a lot of reasons, I install ipe with counstrustion adhesive seal the bottom side before instalation and you cant do this, finish the top of your deck only.Dont use anchor seal its a total waste of time and money.

Sand ipe where it needs it,sanding ipe with 60/80 grit has no effect one way or the other far as the finish taking.

East Teak, the George Man,in fact the whole Business is the best outfit I have dealt with in many moons. John
brooklyndecks
17 years ago
get the 1x6 Ipe from George. you don't need 5/4
Birgit
17 years ago
Steve,

Do you use the construction adhesive as the moisture barrier between the Ipe and PT, or do you do as you advise above and seal the bottom of the Ipe?

Thanks,
Birgit
brooklyndecks
17 years ago
Birgit,

No, I don't use adhesive as a moisture barrier. JH does that.
I used to paint the joist tops black, so you don't see them in the gaps. why do you/I need a moisture barrier?

I have sealed the bottom of my Ipe boards, but I usually don't. If I was building my own deck, I would seal the bottom and sides...but I do this for a living, and there aren't enough hours or dollars to do that. It's not that important, or I would do it. There is a downside to pre-
sealing...having to handle oily boards. that's really the reason that I don't do it.

steve
john_hyatt
17 years ago
Moisture Barrier 101, Class trun off all devices you brought with you the ipods,lap tops,cell phones and all the stupid time wasting things you have in those purple back packs I am only going to say this one time and one time only. Pick it up now or fail the Course

Ipe is moisture cranky in the first few important weeks because>>> the preasure treated lumber has a lot of water in it from the treatment plant,add to this its mostly yellow pine that is movement prone in the sun anyway and really open grain thats why they use it to pump all that copper and water into it.

If a person seals the ipe on all four sides,or pre treats at all...A during construstion its going to get really beat up..B the wood will be hampered in its breathing,remember when you started this class?? thats right wood has to breath...Martha Zolinkisi!!! get that plug out of your ear!!!! you think I cant see that??? another bump and run like that and your headed back to the shop clean up!!
Lets start up with those two givens,,using construston adhesive on the joists helps leval out uneaven framing that is the norm with pt lumber,it adds a little hold down power,and protects the ipe from the fast escaping water in the first few important weeks or moons while at the same time lets the ipe take a breath when it has to. This combined with cross vintalation in the skirting gives this high dollor and most execlent material the respect it has coming.Doing all we can to keep it from cupping and buckling.

All you young people are the Furture of Construstion, I am proud of every one of you,That includes you Martha, The big test is next week,ride hard, ride safe,stay away from the high side,and Get Er Done!!! John

ipe deck questions

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