elevation error require pool tear out??

12 years ago

Help Again please,

Have contract for $40K++ for pool only, no deck etc. PB accidently shot pool off wrong step, and built pool too far out of ground. Did not follow arch drawings. Now have 8"+ slope toward house with a span of 30' at the widest point. That puts the top of the pool, 8"+ higher than my living room windows and doors.Have had one rain of 15-20 minutes, so photos show how much water toward house and above door level, had to sump pump after 10 min of rain. Not good for south La. where hurricanes often give us days of rain at a time. See photos of roof line to see how much water we get off the roof.

Have had several drainage guys over to evaluate, and all recommend tearing pool out and drop to proper level.

Other mishap was the main line had a leak. Photo of them jack hammering it out to fix. PB said this does not damage integrity.

Like PB very much, but am extremely concerned about a substandard product. The deck area is about 2000 sq/ft. which adds another 60K, and then adding kitchen and fireplace. Concerned about the overall design, as nothing fits properly if we have to add multiple steps to compensate for pool elevation. Also, pool is so high from inside the house, can not see the infinity edge from sunken living area.

Approx. costs to change design and keep from tearing out pool is 20K in added arch., drainage, steps etc.

Am very concerned about impact on a million dollar property for elevations, looks, and function.

Any opinions? If has to be torn out will PB insurance cover? He does all his own forms, digging, pipes, so would have to pay for tear out, steel, gunite and replacing the tile. Don't know the price of steel, but he said gunite was 8K and tile 2K. Any additional advice would be very much appreciated!

POOL PLANS

{{!gwi}}

HEIGHT OUT OF LIVING ROOM DOOR (SEE SKIMMER PIPE)

{{!gwi}}

SLOPE TOWARD HOUSE

{{!gwi}}

10 MINUTES OF RAIN

{{!gwi}}

15 MIN. OF RAIN REQUIRED SUMP PUMP (SEE WATER LINE)

{{!gwi}}

STEEP ROOF LINE DRAINING LOTS OF WATER

{{!gwi}}

MAIN LINE LEAK/JACK HAMMERING

{{!gwi}}

LOOKING FOR POOL LEAK

{{!gwi}}

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (15)

womanowned
12 years ago
What are you using instead of decking between the pool and the house? If I was the PB, I would call in a pool engineer to devise the best correction. It might be possible to remove the top beam to lower the pool 8", but your desired depth could not be attained unless you tear everything out and start over. If you did not have a sunken living room, there could be solutions in modifying the deck and drainage between the house and the pool. Raising that area would make it more difficult to enjoy the infinity edge from your living room.
0
shellip
Original Author
12 years ago
We are using travertine for the coping, porch, and deck areas.
We asked about removing the top of the pool to lower the pool and the response on this forum and from PB is the integrity would be compromised as it would remove all the bond beam. I was also told it would mess up the infinity gutter depth, and the splash deck would be only 4" deep.
To your knowledge is this info incorrect?
We have been trying to figure something out for 3 weeks, between landscapers, concrete & paver guys, and architect.
CROSS SECTION SECTION C, HE MEASURED FROM ONE STEP TOO HIGH
{{!gwi}}
0
Related Discussions
How is the concrete/ elevation measured?
Q
Comments (4)
Thank you all for your honest feedback. Sorry it was SO long,I was upset when I wrote it. I hoped people not interested in detail could skim/skip. I will take the time to edit future posts for everyone else's sanity :) The roof drains attach into "canale" openings. Copper/ squared "scuppers" (?) enter the parapet wall, then becoming round and connect to fat PVC. They were installed by a plumber, who pressure tested after he installed. Yes a grill fits over the roof opening and needs to be kept clear. They are less ideal than an open canale due to increased clog risk in the 20+ feet of pvc in the roof. I believe we get a roof top swimming pool, and/ or leaks if they clog :) (We hope to check/clear regularly.) They are installed correctly, they just were not expected. Somewhere something was missed or changed so they were needed.
...See More
I finally got my diving pool...and my son tested it out PICS
Q
Comments (10)
The fence situation is the kink of the whole property, and is causing me the biggest grief right now. What you can't tell from the photo is that the pool is actually raised higher than the yard behind it, and there is approximately 10 feet behind/between the pool fence and the split rail fence that runs the perimeter of the yard. The lattice is largely there for privacy, as none of the pools in our area have fences for code. Neighborhood rules dictate that you can have a privacy fence around your pool, provided it's far enough back from the property line. (Where the split rail fence is) I want to do just what you're saying, but it would be ALOT of money right now. They'd basically have to come in and build a new retaining wall behind the pool, add fill dirt to bring the surface level with the existing pool deck to expanding the area (to allow for flowers and the like), and then we could fence around that. However, we would then be very close to the setback requirements. Arrgghhhhh....... Since we're so far over budget on the interior renovation, this project may have to wait until next year. :(
...See More
update on pool tear out due to elevation error
Q
Comments (13)
Shellip, Anytime projects(plumbing) get redone and tied into existing lines, it won't look as clean and neat as the first time around. All the plumbing needs to be under pressure(35psi min.) and holding until all gunite and deck work is complete. Competent plumbers will also track and label the lines at the equipment to make the equipment set a little easier. Every PB has a first for a lot of projects. There are a lot of different ways to do things. Your project is no different. Most PB's will research and have some method to their madness. It appears that little thought has been made as to how your system will actually function. A skimmer and main drains are installed just to make sure that everything a normal pool has is there just in case. I would encourage you to look at a couple things: 1) Make sure an automatic water filler is installed! Most times it is installed in the basin, but because you are using two pumps and treating the catch basin and pool as separate bodies of water, it won't matter where it is installed. Just make sure you put one in. Justification for this is twofold: water that runs over the edge is aireated and more prone to evaporation. And, if the water level in the pool drops, you may not have enough water in the basin to operate it properly. 2)You will absolutely have to run the pump for the catch basin EVERY day. If the catch basin doesn't run for a week, you will have a couple more problems: water evaporates and again you may not have enough water in the catch basin to operate it properly and since you are not filtering this water you will have problems with unfiltered stagnate water in the basin that grows algae rapidly. 3) I suggest you install some type of remote control system. There are plenty to choose from, Pentair, Jandy, etc. This will enable you to operate the pumps and lights from your home or patio. I suggest this because it will be advantageous to be able to turn on the basin pump while the pool is being used. This will help ensure that splash over into the basin is being pumped back into the pool and it does not overflow. I don't think you want to walk to the equipment and manually turn on the pump each time you use the pool. I haven't made my customers do that since the 70's. One other item that you might want to look into, though it is a little late to address fully. This is the elevation of the basin. Catch basins should not be visable when you are standing on the opposite side of the pool. Perhaps a detail of the site lines were provided by your architect when he drew the original plan. With all the changes you have had to endure it would be good to check this to make sure. Nothing ruins a good vanishing edge more than being able to see the edge of the catch basin when you stand at the opposite side of the pool. The pool pump size can be 3/4 or 1 hp with an appropriately sized filter. The basin pump will need to be large enough to produce a minimum of 108 gpm thru the plumbing. Brand and hp may vary. It just needs to produce at least that much water based on the length of your wall. Good luck.
...See More
Absolute Final Plans and Elevations-And Build thread
Q
Comments (972)
Hello cpartist, Your home looks beautiful & I’m sorry that there were so many problems with the building process. I own a “villa” (sounds impressive, doesn’t it?) in Sarasota that has been used as a rental for the last 7 years. My husband and I have finally become snowbirds and want to do a major renovation to the house. We are now in the process of replacing all the doors & windows with hurricane rated products, so that part is almost finished. The rest will involve removing soffits & popcorn ceilings, removing some walls & moving others none of which are load bearing, & gutting the 80s kitchen & bathrooms. Not quite a new build but changing almost the entire interior except the hardwood floors. Since we are new to the area and none of the neighbors have been able to recommend good contractors to consider we’re semi stuck. After reading your saga of issues, I really don’t want to fly blind. We have had some issues with workers who didn’t have a work ethic and others who just didn’t do work to our expectations. Since you have been put thru the wringer, do you have anyone that you would recommend & names of those to stay away from? We need someone who can impress my perfectionist husband and who employs workers that will do the same. Thank you for any info you choose to share with me.
...See More
golfgeek
12 years ago
shellip,
It sounds like effort and dollars will be expended to over come the elevation problem.
Will you be willing to live with the results? Sounds like you wouldn't.

Since you have some detail drawings that were used but not followed, I would suggest that you ask the PB to provide a product that follows the plans. That's all you need to say.
Don't feel guilty or sorry for the PB. It's not your fault.

Insurance will most likely not cover this type of error for the PB. A shell that floats because of excess rain is coverable, but stupidity is not.
0
shellip
Original Author
12 years ago
Golfgeek and Womanowned,
Thank you so much for your input. I talked to the PB's sub who placed the steel today, and he said he mentioned to PB that the elevation looked too high....I wish we had measured twice, cut once.
He said we could jack hammer out the top 2 feet of the pool, and expose the rebar, then he would re tie the bondbeam. Architect coming to look today so I will update you on what occurs. Many Many Thanks again!!!
shelli
0
golfgeek
12 years ago
shellip,
Just remember that ALL vertical dimensions need to be addressed including: all steps and benches, pool light height below water to meet code, return line locations, weir depth and pool depths.
Is there a diving board or rock at the deep end?
You need to ask about all these items.
0
goyom
12 years ago
From your original post:
"Approx. costs to change design and keep from tearing out pool is 20K in added arch., drainage, steps etc."

Did your PB indicate this would be a cost you would pay ?
This is his problem, not yours, and do not let them tell you otherwise.

The PB should make this right. You have a contract, sadly chasing him down in court may be difficult.

Make sure you do not pay them another dime, stop all checks, until you find a resolution. The thought of adding a deck and kitchen and fireplace for 60k more on a pool you are not happy with makes me shudder.
0
banana_fanna
12 years ago
:-( The board has had some bad news lately. I hope your problems get resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.

I'm sorry for your troubles.
0
natural_one
12 years ago
Mistakes happen, but this is careless. You have the right to make him fix it, or have him offer a settlement for you to live with it.

If you live with it, I would intentionally have it raised out of the ground with a 12" wide step up....get creative with the riser up to the band of coping. You may be able to make it look gorgeous, along with a payout for him to not have to fix it the big bad expensive way. Good luck.
0
shellip
Original Author
12 years ago
Thank you again to everyone for the great comments!!!

Talked to the steel sub last week, and he said he mentioned to PB at the steel stage that the pool looked too high! Wish he had reshot elevations at that time.
After additional consultation with two architects, and multiple drainage and landscape experts we have asked the PB to tear out the pool and re build according to the architectural drawings.

He is going to contact his insurance and get back to us. Right now we have dug a trench and are running a sump pump!
Can't thank all of you enough for answering not only my questions but also the info. you post on other posts.
shellip
0
poolguynj
12 years ago
His insurance company will likely tell him there is no such thing a stupidity insurance. He isn't likely to be too keen on a rip out at his expense. You shouldn't give a rats patui about what or when his insurance company says. Not your problem.

Get some council. I sense this is not going to go well in the near future. Your council will likely suggest you keep quiet on the boards about this going forward until it's resolved.

Scott
0
shellip
Original Author
12 years ago
Update!
Thanks again everyone for all your info. PB has taken responsibility and is in the process of tearing out new pool.

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

He has taken out the gutter for the infinity edge, the walls of the shallow end, weir wall and the splash deck.
PB is requesting to leave the walls that are pictured below, and frame around or inside of them. He said he wants to do this so he can reuse the plumbing. The walls he wants to keep are the wall with the light in the deep end and the wall where the skimmer was placed.

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

This will change the size and design a bit which is not huge for us, but it pushes it to with in 6' of the trunk of a 100+ year old live oak. We are concerned with the gutter/catch basin being so close to a tree who is notorious for root invasion, especially since the basin will be in the ground, with the coping just above yard level.

Any thoughts on if it is ok to keep those walls and plumbing, and if you would be concerned about a catch basin that close to the tree. The original design has the pool a little over 10' from the trunk.

To save $ on the rebuild, we offered to omit the 10x10 splash deck and instead integrate it into the shallow end of the pool. Would this in fact be a cost saving for him?

Thank you!!!!
shellip
0
shellip
Original Author
12 years ago
Update!
Thanks again everyone for all your info. PB has taken responsibility and is in the process of tearing out new pool.

pool demo from shallow end
{{!gwi}}

He has taken out the gutter for the infinity edge, the walls of the shallow end, weir wall and the splash deck.
PB is requesting to leave the walls that are pictured below, and frame around or inside of them. He said he wants to do this so he can reuse the plumbing. The walls he wants to keep are the wall with the light in the deep end and the wall where the skimmer was placed.

skimmer wall & light wall

{{!gwi}}

This will change the size and design a bit which is not huge for us, but it pushes it to with in 6' of the trunk of a 100+ year old live oak. We are concerned with the gutter/catch basin being so close to a tree who is notorious for root invasion, especially since the basin will be in the ground, with the coping just above yard level.

Any thoughts on if it is ok to keep those walls and plumbing, and if you would be concerned about a catch basin that close to the tree. The original design has the pool a little over 10' from the trunk.

To save $ on the rebuild, we offered to omit the 10x10 splash deck and instead integrate it into the shallow end of the pool. Would this in fact be a cost saving for him?

Thank you!!!!
shellip
0
golfgeek
12 years ago
shellip,
Why save a couple walls? The light niche still needs to be taken out and moved down to meet code(18" from top of the light ring to the water line). $50 worth of plumbing might be saved, but the pool will still be 6-8" shallow if the floor isn't removed.
I wouldn't change the plan at this point. You contracted for a specific pool and all the PB has to do is make it right per the elevation change. If he wants to leave walls in place, that's fine as long as all the dimensions are correct.

100 year old oaks tend to have a deep tap root and shouldn't affect the pool structure. The roots can affect the deck as they displace the soil over time.

Thumbs up to your PB for making it right. Every industry needs people who own up to their errors. Good luck.
0
renovxpt
12 years ago
Live oaks actually have very shallow root systems under most soil conditions. IMO 10 feet is too close.
0
shellip
Original Author
12 years ago
Thanks golfgeek and renovxpt,

Yea,Live Oaks have very shallow root system and they can be destructive to sidewalks etc. That is why we are concerned about moving w/in 6' of the trunk.

Suggested to PB that we tear out skimmer wall and I would supply the new pipe. Hope he agrees.

All you guys have been a HUGE HELP!!!

shellip
0

elevation error require pool tear out??

Comments (15)

womanowned

shellip
Original Author

Related Discussions

golfgeek

shellip
Original Author

golfgeek

goyom

banana_fanna

natural_one

shellip
Original Author

poolguynj

shellip
Original Author

shellip
Original Author

golfgeek

renovxpt

shellip
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

elevation error require pool tear out??

Comments (15)

shellipOriginal Author

Related Discussions

shellipOriginal Author

shellipOriginal Author

shellipOriginal Author

shellipOriginal Author

shellipOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

shellip
Original Author

shellip
Original Author

shellip
Original Author

shellip
Original Author

shellip
Original Author

shellip
Original Author