Answers: Sort of, yes, no, no, yes, and yes, your plumber is basically correct.

The kind of pump doesn't matter. The intelligence of an Intelliflow is for electrical efficiency. It won't help you multitask.

If you think it through, it becomes pretty obvious what you can do and what you can't. Your pump sucks water from the pool and spa in various places, and runs it through the heating system. By using valves, you can direct the heated water where you want, like the water feature or spa. Of course you can adjust the valves to split the water flow to both spa and water features, but it'll take longer for the spa to heat. And if this same pump runs the spa jets, then you won't get much jet pressure either.

I'd just throw in another pump, they're pretty cheap in the big scheme of things. Get a separate cheaper pump to run the water features. 1/2HP would probably be plenty.

Not sure about solar, but I think it just goes more or less inline with your existing heater. So it shouldn't make a difference one way or another.

John,

Thanks for the input. I think what I will do is use one pump for the spa jets, one pump for the water features, and the intelliflo to run the heater, circulation, in-floor cleaning, and solar. It seems like the circulation and in-floor are running the most and will result in energy savings if ran at appropriate hp versus overkill.

Any other suggestions are welcome.

Where is Deeker? If you're out there - please let me know. I could use your expertise.

Kim, that sounds good to me. In fact, I've got that exact configuration, except all my pumps are Whisperflo's. If I'd known about the Intelliflo, I would have gotten one for the main filter pump instead. I'll have to ask my pool builder why he doesn't offer that as an option.

Regards, John

Kim:
Your proposed pump set-up sounds a lot like ours. Our equipment was just installed yesterday. We have two Whisperflo pumps; one for the spa jets and one for our waterfall/slide. Then we have an Intelliflo for the pool circulation.

Cheers!

dogpaddle - yes that is our exact set-up. Two Whisperflo's and an Intelliflo - hopefully this will work well for all of us!

My question is - can I run 2 things at once on 1 intelliflo pump at the same time? Does it depend on which 2 things I want to run? YES

For instance - can I run the in-floor cleaning system and a water feature?
THIS WILL DEPAND ON HOW MANY GPM'S ARE REQUIRED FOR EACH FUNCTION, THE SIZE OF YOU PLUMBING PLUS OTHER EQUIPMENT AND HOW HIGH THE WATER HAS TO BE LIFTED ABOVE THE WORKING SURFACE OF THE WATER. MATHEMATICS DO WORK WELL WHEN APPLIED.

The spa heater and a water feature?
THE SPA HEATER AND A WATERFEATURE CAN WORK AT THE SAME TIME AS LONG AS THE WATERFEATURE IS IN THE SPA.

Solar and the heater?
WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO USE THE GAS HEATER AND SOLAR AT THE SAME TIME? THE G. HTR WILL WIN THE RACE. WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT INSTANT GRATIFICATION, BE SURE TO INSTALL A SOLAR CONTROLLER (PENTAIR/COMPOOL LX220). YOUR PLUMBER MUST HAVE THE WATER GO THROUGH THE SOLAR COLLECTOR FIRST THEN THROUGH THE HEATER. THIS WAY THE SOLAR PRE HEATS THE WATER BEFORE IT ENTERS THE G. HTR. IF YOU DON'T INSTALL A DIFFERENTIAL SOLAR CONTROLLER YOU RISK COOLING THE HEATER WATER.

The kind of pump doesn't matter. The intelligence of an Intelliflow is for electrical efficiency. It won't help you multitask.
YES THE INTELLIFLO PUMP IS FOR ENERGY SAVINGS BUT THE INTELLIFLO NEW MODEL NUMBER VF3050 (VARIABLE FLO 3050 CHOICES) OFFERS EXACT GPM'S. THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR WATERFEATURES. AS DIRT IS DEPOSITED IN THE FILTER, THE GPM'S WILL DIMINISH. THE VF3050 WILL MAINTAIN THE EXACT GPM'S REQUIRED AND GIVE YOU THE SAME LOOK EVERY TIME. IF USING A INTELLITOUCH SYSTEM, THE AUTOMATION CONTROLLER WILL TELL YOU WHAT THE % OF DIRT LOAD THE FILTER HAS AT ANY GIVEN TIME. THE VS3050 (VARIABLE SPEED 3050 GIVES YOU CHOICES RELATED TO RPM'S, ALSO KNOWN AS 4X160.

Thanks for the input. I think what I will do is use one pump for the spa jets, one pump for the water features, and the intelliflo to run the heater, circulation, in-floor cleaning, and solar. It seems like the circulation and in-floor are running the most and will result in energy savings if ran at appropriate hp versus overkill.

WELL STATED. HOW MANY HOURS A WEEK WILL YOUR SPA BOOSTER JET PUMP OPERATE? PROBABLY MINIMAL. THE INTELLIFLO PUMP WILL DO THE HARD WORK AND FIND THE SWEET SPOT FOR EFFICIENCY.
IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE YOU WATER FEATURE FOR HOURS AND DAYS ON END, YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER USING THE INTELLIFLO PUMP. YOUR WATER FEATURE MAY REQUIRE 2200 RPM'S IF USING THE VS3050. A STANDARD SWIMMING POOL PUMP OPERATES AT 3450 RPM'S. I'M NOT PLANNING ON ENERGY BECOMEING LESS EXPENSIVE IN THE FUTURE.

PENTAIR HAS A COST CALCULATOR ON THEIR WEB SITE pentairpool.com.

Basically, it depends on what things you want to run at the same time.

Example: Spa and anything else is a no no because the water source for the spa is the spa. Running anything else will drain the spa. It's nearly impossible to balance the suction side.

The Pool and Waterfall/Features: Since the water source for these is the pool and the return side is the pool, no problems.

After 2 years of posting on the IntelliFlo I can finally now say if your builder does not know about this pump, understand this pump or is still pushing single speed pumps find another builder that does know about it- the pump has exploded in sales. It is quickly becoming the standard pool pump and sales next year are expected to increase 500- 700 percent.

The Intelliflo can multi task but you are limited on what you can do by the pipe size particularly on the suction side.
Also you must make the decision on what is important to you on your pool. For example: if you live in a high cost energy area the closer the IntelliFlo is to maximum GPM the less energy you will save. Comparing a single speed pump at max RPM's (3450) and an Intelliflo at max RPM's the Intelliflo will operate at a lower cost due to motor the Intelliflo uses. The motor is rated at 8.5 HP with a 3 HP impeller. That means the motor is not even close to being maxed out - walk in the park for the motor. Also inside the motor are magnets. This allows the motor to use much less amps on start up and while continuously running the motor. Huge savings compared to the old single speed pumps.
There are several applications on pools where using an Intelliflo is a no brainier: infloor cleaning systems is one. A system that uses a designated pump for the infloor with a separate pump for filtering can combine both pumps to use an IntelliFlo.
A single pump infloor that combines both infloor and filtering always should use an Intelliflo because even though it is one pump the Intelliflo will save you a fortune in energy costs and with automation can be easily set to be a much more hydraulically sized system giving you versatility as well as maximum performance. Let me put it this way: I do not mow my lawn everyday for 8 hours nor do I vacuum my carpet everyday for 8 hours - why on earth would I clean my pool everyday for 8 hours? It is EXPENSIVE and does not clean the pool any better. Set your IntelliFlo pump to filter 8 hours and then set it to ramp up to another higher flow rate for the infloor: Depending on the debris load in your pool it could be 3 hours a day, 1 hour a day, once every other day, etc. The settings on the pump are very easy to use and change so just play with it enough and customize your needs.

Solar, fountains, water features pumps are also replaced in many applications. It al depends on the amount of water they require and what else will be running at the same time.
I do not recommend that you try and use an IntelliFlo for everything on your pool.
Builders are getting smarter on this pump all the time and have come a long way on using the product. Actually they are doing things with this product that Pentair never dreamed of. This is very new technology to them and is completely revamping how a pool operates. I can very honestly say this pump has completely changed the game and is probably the product that has had the biggest impact in our industry in over 25 years. There is no doubt in my mind that in 2 years most pools will have variable speed.

PS - Las Vegas, even though the KW rates are very low, just announced a $200.00 rebate on the pump. Also North Clark County (where Vegas is) only will allow an IntelliFlo to be used on any new pool with property lines 10' feet or less - not because of the energy saving but how quiet the pump is.

Deek

Deek, I have been reading your impressive posts for the last few days. Here is my take on the Intelliflo multitasking.

This is for a pool around 20K gallons. There are two cases; first, when you do not have to heat the water, second; where you need to heat the pool or spa.

I believe that the pump can multi-task in the following way. By using electrical actuators (electrical actuators cost money, but the operating cost is negligible).

This is how you would proceed.

In the case when no heating is necessary, you will take the normal inflow of water from the pool, run it through the filter e.g, Quad DE 100. for a few hours at night to turnover water once or twice. Next you will drop the RPM to get about 10-20 GPM while bypassing both filter and heater to run the SWG (and ozonator). Also at this time you can vacuum the pool by directing the flow of water to the input of the legend or legend II pressure cleaner at slightly increased RPM (Probably it will be better to run the cleaner first and then the filter to catch any deposits which are dislodged).

Now in the morning you can run you can use the pump to direct water to your SPA, and water feature, still using the pool intake. Or your SPA only, The water does not need to run through the filter only through the SWG. Here I note that it does not matter how the water reaches back into pool as long as it has proper chlorination.

The second case when you are going to use heat you have to use SPA inflow/SPA outflow or pool inflow/SPA outflow. The remaining power is used to run the water feature.

This way one pump will do all the work, and will operate at maximum efficiency.

I am considering plumbing my pool this way, please tell me if I am wrong. I have three 24" sheer descents. I could not find GPM requirements of these. I am guessing it may not be more than 30-40 GPM.

Now a little rant about the Intellitouch and Pentair. Although the pump is priced rationally if they really wanted to capture a large market share they could have kept the prices of the Intellitouch system on this earth. RS485 is not a new technology, one can just run a 4 wire cable to the house from the load center and use a $90 RS485 to Ethernet (RJ45) converter to use your own computer to run the control software. I think the all of the packages are a rip off. When companies try to charge excessive money for slightly custom features they loose market share. I hope the management is not silly and will bring the prices down so that they can corner a bigger market share. The control feature is the biggest discouraging factor in using the intellitouch control system and in my opinion it is at the cost of a fine pump. It is so sad when suits come in, I am a big believer in lager volume/lower margin model. Greed will always do you in. I am planning on using the RS485 P/N....186 controller for now.

My pool builder is scared to death of using the intelliflo so I will have to hold his hand during the installation. I believe that the company should have been doing it.

Last but the least as you have stated with a 2" intake the pump can push about 80 GPM before going out of its sweet spot. Why did pentair not plumb the pump for 2 1/2" or 3" intake? It is quite surprising to me. I am sure I can still use 3" plumbing with reducers at the pump, which will cause loss due to friction to be minimal, but I wish they had done the right thing in the first place. The bottle-neck will still cost efficiency.

So please advise? Am I thinking along the right lines? I took my fluid dynamics about 27 years ago, but I still think my memory is pretty good, since I have been teaching electrical and computer engineering for over 20 years.

So that is my plan for now... I hope you will let me know if I am being too theoretical, and if so why that is?

Best regards,

Neil

PS: This post is meant to ask for your advice, to keep you sharp, and to explore possibilities. I would also like to know how you arrived at your motor HP and pump HP? The literature on the site is extremely rudimentary.

Deek, are you there? I really need to ontain you view on my post on multi-tasking. I also two other questions, why did they not gang two impellers or even three impllers on this motor? Or simply a bigger impeller?

The second question is regarding 3.2 KW model. How does it measure the flow rate? Is is just based on the RPM and the current draw?

Thanks!

Neil

ProfNeil, actuators for this pump are the future and you described in detail where we would like to get to with the master controller and pump. Your idea will surely work and pay substantial dividends in my humble opinion.

In regards to your question on the IntelliTouch. IntelliTouch was around way before the pump was released and the cost of the unit has little to nothing to do with it's RS485 capability. The majority of the IntelliTouches cost is involved in its mechanical automation potential i.e. numerous amounts of relays that need to be fit into a great enclosure. We are making strides to lower cost controllers, however, you truly won't see a incredibly inexpensive controller until 100% of the devices hooked to it are digital in nature. This may be sooner than later though.

All builders are scared to death at first and we have people that can hold his hand too. Let me know and we can provide a technical specialist to work with him.

At 2" the pump is capable of moving 170 GPM at 0 head. Dynamic hydraulic curves are not as simple as mandating discharge and intake port size. The 2" discharge is good for probably 99.9% of pool applications up to 170 gpm.... and I will guarantee to you that most applications are in the 50-80 gpm range where the IntelliFlo hits it's Best Efficiency Hydraulic Point.

My mistake on the 8.5 HP... it is actually 6 HP @ 6000 RPM. We presently only speed the motor to 3450 rpm drawing ~3.2 KW because that is the specific speed rating of the impeller. In the future we can speed the impeller to 6000 RPM and draw over 6 HP on that exact same motor that we sell on the IntelliFlo today.

Hope this works

Deek

Deek, I must say that you are a stand-up guy, who is not afraid to correct a mistake. I am quite proud of your knowledgeable responses. I definitely see the potential of saving huge amounts of energy here. I wish they would provide plumbing instructions and sell the product as a package so that the PBs can find some validation and the comfort that flows from it.

My pool guy is still fighting tooth and nail with me, but I am going to try it out nonetheless. I guess we owe it to the community. I will post the results of this 'experiment' when the pool is running.

BTW, how does the pump measure the flow rate?

Let me say one more time that I am very impressed by your knowledgeable advocacy.

My very best to you,

Neil

Neil,
Thank you for your very kind words. I actually do have a full time job and occasionally post on this board because I think it is important to know what the end user of products we make finds important. I have learned a great deal from this board and look forward to my small contributions.

As with any pump our industry sells there is really no way of reading a flow rates unless you install a flow meter. Pumps all have printed flow curves and these curves will tell you GPM verses TDH.

Our industry is not very scientific. If you ask your builder why he uses a 1.5 HP pump for a filtering pump and ask him why he uses a 2 HP pump for his jet booster pump - the answer will invariable be "cause I have always used those size pumps". Most PB's have no clue what the flow rate is of the pump they are installing, energy consumed of that pump or decibel level of the pump.

For a water feature, today most PB's put on a 2 HP or 3HP pump with a manual valve on the pipe after the discharge port. The pump begins free wheeling, meaning it is pumping water with very little restriction again it and the pump begins howling (sounds like marbles are in the pump) and the builder uses the valve on the discharge line to create back pressure to quiet the pump down. How arcahic is that?
The PB has no clue how to size the water feature and being safe than sorry he get a big pump, no matter the waste of money or energy and sticks it on so the kids water slide works !!

A 2HP pump for a spa booster pump is also a waste there is no way with all that plumbing and restriction that goes into a spa that the flow the pump could create is being created.

A 1 HP or 1.5 HP or god forbid a 2HP pump for filtration is a total waste of energy and completely inefficient method of filtering water. Your PB has no concept of what I am talking about but he will eventual get it.

Now fast forward to today: much smarter consumers because it is their 2nd, 3rd, 4th pool and the internet is a great source of information.
Today energy cost/Green are big topics. The cost to operate 3-4 pumps 6-8 hours in California will run you 400  700.000 dollars a month. TodayÂs consumer will not put up with that  just think what there reaction would be if their PB did not tell them about a product that could cut that 40-70% ?

Lastly today homes have smaller lots and noise is a big issue. You or your neighborhood do not want to hear pumps screaming.

Now along comes Pentair and this thing called variable speed. Basically this pump, because the RPM's can be set between 400 RPM's and 3450 RPM's and that is what produces the GPM's, is any HP the PB wants it to be.

The ability to set RPM's to the correct amount of water for filtering, infloor, water features, and solar, etc. is all there.

The energy saving alone are justification to buy the pump - ask the builder why are utility companies offering these type of rebates for variable speed? The decibel level is extraordinary low compared to existing pumps.

In advance I apologize but your builder better get into the 21st century and quick - his methodology of building pools will not cut it shortly - actually in some states including California on 1/1/2008 he will be breaking the law if he continues on his merry way of building pools.

Lastly my offer stands: have him call us. We have spent millions on training and education as this has been the biggest hurdle for us. I am telling you straight up that everyday builders are jumping on this product. There will be some national builders using this in 2008 Â he will change it is just a matter of when.

Deek

Deek
At the moment my PB is to use a 1HP whisper flow and a booster pump for the legend cleaner. I asked if I could upgrade to an intelliflo 4x160 and get rid of the booster pump he said no I would have to have a booster pump. I was also told on the phone by a pentair person the same thing and that I also could not use a whisperflow instead of the booster pump it had to be a booster pump for the legend cleaner to run. From reading Neil's post it sounds like it could be possible. Is it possible to use one Intelliflo 4x160 to do it all or even the 3.2 if 4x160 won't work. If it won't work can I use a whisper 3/4 HP instead of a booster pump?
Pool Specs
16x40 pool 3.5 to 8 ft
Intellichlor SWG
Heat Pump
Legend Platinum Cleaner
One or two 24" cascade
2"plumbing
Can it work and what do I need to do to get it to work?
Would it be the smartest to go?
Thanks for your help
Bid

The cleaner needs it own pump - your PB and Pentair person are correct. The cleaners demand vey high pressure to operate correctly and the IntelliFlo will not provide that pressure particularly while trying to be the filter pump.
The Intelliflo can filter and provide water for the the sheer descents depending upon the GPM required for water feature.
PS: You are always better off going 2.5" plumbing on the suction side verses 2" plumbing.
Deek

Thanks Deek
I think we will go with the 4x160 for the filter pump.
Can we use a whisper for the legend or does it have to be the booster pump.
Thanks
Bid

Has to be a booster pump.
Deek

From a strict repair standpoint, this pump is certinly the future. My experiences in 25+ years is that builders have no interest in putting anything in they don't know about but ironically, they love stuff that the majority of people know little about. This pump is the most misunderstood but when you take time to get educated, you have to ask yourself why it never came sooner. There was a question earlier about how the pump knows GPM. This is based on the entered water temp and the logic in the drive which knows levels of resistance at a given temp if I remember what Pentair taught in training. For retrofits, it is way easier to drop a pump in that will size itdelf, but the cost will have to come down at some point for the common man to afford it. When properly sold, common sense says buy it, but to most people the up front cost is way too high right now even with the rebates. Cost will not come down as long as Pentair is the only game in town. When Hayward steps up, we'll see some competition.

I'm curious as to why it is referenced on this board as a VF3050. Is that a regional thing? It is #011012 for the 3.2 and 011013 for the 4x160 in so cal. Maybe your using the starite version numbers.

Repair guy,
Let me try and clear up the name and description of the pumps. There has been a description and name change identifying the pumps recently and this probably has lead to your confusion. I also think this will help others that may have the same questions. Please remember that all the pumps listed below use the exact same motor. The only thing that differs is the drive that is on top of the motor. A Variable flow pump can be changed to a variable speed pump and vice versa very easily by changing the drive. This is done with a Phillips screw driver and a taking out a few screws and replacing on drive for the other.

There are 3 variable speed pumps available in the IntelliFlo family:
The Pentair Variable Flow 3050 IntelliFlo Pump P/N 011012 is a variable flow pump that is programmed to a desired flow rate. User enters in gallons in pool, desired turnover time and pump calculates GPM flow for the pool. This pump monitors many conditions on the system like suction and return pressure and will adjust the flow depending on changes within a system similar to cruise control on a car. Among several other features this pump also has the ability to sense blockage on the suction side and discharge side and has a built in timer within the pump, etc. This pump will also display the GPM it is flowing at. It operates at a minimum 400 RPMs and goes up to 3,450 RPMs. In essence this pump has 3,050 different speeds it can flow at.

The Pentair Variable Speed Intelliflo Pump P/N 011013 (known as the 4x160) and the Sta-Rite Variable Speed 3050 IntelliPro Pump P/N P6E6Y4-209L. Both pumps performance and features are exactly the same except the Sta-Rite pump is black and uses a Sta Rite wet end. Both are programmable multi-speed pump that have 4 preset speed (RPM) settings. When used with certain automatic controllers the presets are increased to 8 customized speeds. The preset speeds can be adjusted in 10 RPM increments anywhere between 400 and 3,450 RPMs. In essence there are 305 speed settings on both pumps. Think of the setting like a AM radio dial on your car you have 6 preset buttons on the radio but you have 100s of stations to choose from.

As far as pricing: Pentair Variable Speed Intelliflo Pump P/N 011013 (known as the 4x160) and the Sta-Rite Variable Speed 3050 IntelliPro Pump P/N P6E6Y4-209L are sold by Pentair at about twice the price of a 2 HP EE pump.
The Pentair Variable Flow 3050 IntelliFlo Pump P/N 011012 is sold for about $300.00 more than Variable Speed pumps.

When you calculate rebates, where available, the cost of a standard pump verses a Variable Speed gets to be in the range of 100- 200.00 more. Variable Flow pump is 400-500.00 more than a standard pump.

All this sounds fine and dandy but do not forget that these pumps are on a jog to reduce energy costs. Depending on your cost of a KW the extra dollars you spend can be earned back very quickly.

Hope this helps, Deek

Question for Deek.
My VF 3050 will not run my legend II unless I slipstream water through my returns or back out the wall mounted relief valve as far as possible and set the pump at 15 gpm. My PB, the local pentair rep and the tech dept. all say it should be able to pump low enough to operate the cleaner without having to slipstream water or alter the relief valve. However, when attempting to divert flow just to the cleaner, even at the lowest gpm setting, the pump shuts down on what I assume is high discharge pressure. The local rep came out to "fix" it on two separate occasions. His last attempt resulted in a 83 gpm setting with flow going to both the cleaner and returns. At this setting it's running 3000 rpm, 1800 watts and 22psi. Well, it blew out the relief valve on the cleaner yesterday. I dont' mean it relieved, it actually came out of the wall fitting in two pieces. I'm quickly becoming disappointed with this equipment. The pump appears to work fine on return mode (23 gpm at 0-1 psi on my quad 100). The return plumbing is a 2"loop with 6 outlets. The cleaner line is 1.5". Before the rep came out to work on it I disconnected the cleaner hose at the cleaner and ran it to a bucket for exactly one minute. This was done with all flow going to the hose and the relief valve closed. I measured 25 gallons at a set point of 15 gpm. Psi on the filter was 8. I have the intellitouch system. I also noticed that as soon as I activate cleaner mode at the intellitouch screen it instantly displays the gpm setpoint for that mode before the pump begins to adjust speed. And the displayed gpm doesn't change. Is this normal? I'm beginning to think either the cleaner is defective (no matter what I try I can't get the sweeper hose to sweep), the gpm calculations aren't working properly, or the intellitouch computer is faulty. Any ideas on what to try next? My PB wants to replace the VF with the VS and walk away from it. The pentair rep is yet to return my latest call.

tmoss,
It is very difficult for me to troubleshoot over the internet. It appears we have been to the job. Please give me the town and stste you live and when the Pentair rep was there. Also who is your pool builder.
I will look into this and get to the bottom. Anything is possible but I doubt the pump is incorrectly calculating the flow. It is computer driven it and , although much, much more basic, it would be like an excel spread sheet doing aclculation wrong - but anything is possible.
My guess and this is a real guess at this point is it is in the cleaner and could possible have something to do with the wall fitting. It also could be that for some reason the IntelliFlo is sensing to much pressure and shuts down in the saftey mode.
All guess's but I do promise we will get it resolved.

Deek

tmoss,
Any energy sweep that runs on the pressure side of the pump and without a booster will exhibit the type problem that you desribe. I'm using an electric actuator valve to devert a specific flow to the cleaner. This seems to work OK but not well enough to sell to my customers.
My opinion is that the Intelliflo pumps will work better with suction cleaners, in-floor cleaners, and with booster pump assisted cleaners.
The catch here is that the booster pump is the least efficient part of the equation. So it needs to run as little as necessary.

Deeker,
Thank you for the speedy reply. I live in Denton TX. The rep was out on 7/9 and 7/12. The PB is Gohlke Pools. Today my wife noticed that the filter pressure on cleaner mode was 30#. It was 20 before the relief valve failed. Gohlke gave her a replacement wall fitting yesterday which she promptly installed. It is for a Polaris 360. The tech at the store said it would work just fine. I just had her cycle the cleaner mode and now it's back down to reading 20#! GPM setpoint on cleaner mode remains the same. For some reason the pump did not shut off last night. The run time for the filtration is 5am-11pm. It is scheduled to do one turnover in that time period. So for my pool size that equals approx. 24 gpm. She found it running at 1am at 32 gpm, which happened to be the manual setpoint. Why is was pumping at this value we don't know. She did set the intellichlor to 100% yesterday but did not activate the superchlorinate feature. Does a setting of 100% override the pump program, thus causing the pump to continue running around the clock at the manual setpoint? I want to be able to run the cleaner without having to run the returns. I'm beginning to think this Pentair equipment configuration won't allow that. Which I don't understand since it's a variable flow capable pump.

Well here's the latest. I've noticed the filter DP now tends to increase during the day by several pounds in filter mode (26 gpm). It starts around 2# in the am and hits 8 or so by evening. I presume this is normal for a DE cartridge? The issue is the cleaner mode. The pump now runs at 3450 and the cleaner is starting to get hung up for 5-10 minutes in the corners. It wasn't doing that before the increase in filter pressure (due to dirt loading I presume) which runs anywhere from 28-30+ psi in cleaner mode. Why it varies I have no idea, probably because the wall fitting tends to relieve sporadically. Actual flow on the screen states 83 gpm which is not only inaccurate but apparently is only the setpoint. The intellitouch doesn't show actual flowrate. From what I observed it only shows setpoints of the mode selected. The only values I have ever seen on that screen is the setpoints. I had to lower the setpoint to 40 gpm in cleaner mode just to get the motor below 3450 rpm. I brought the cleaner to the PB and they "checked it" and said it works fine. And yes the pool is relatively clean. The PB sent someone over yesterday to work on two other issues but wouldn't touch the pump settings. All he could say was Pentair needed to come out and make it right. This will be their 3rd attempt. Still waiting. I'm amazed that this technology is being pushed so aggressively without the technical support to make it work. This pool has been in service for two months now. Unfortunately, I get to pay for all of this through high equipment prices and a motor running 2800 watts on cleaner mode. I'm a big fan of technology that works in the real world. I'd hate to go to a 2 speed set-up because no one around here can make an intelliflo work correctly.

Deek, thanks for your very informative mail. I am going with two intelliflo pumps, one P/N 011012 for general pool operation and other P/N 011013 for water features (in fact I just wanted to play with these). The intellitouch system indeed provides a flow rate; I am somewhat satisfied with your explanation with the calculating the GPM based on the impeller RPM; it makes sense based on the fact that water is an incompressible fluid. However, since the drives on both pumps are not actually connected to the pump itself, I am guessing (and I am reaching here) that they are calculating the RPMs based on current draw, which could be quite in accurate in determining the RPM; or they are measuring the change in magnetic field, which could be a little difficult since the motor has one permanent motor. I wish I knew how they were doing it so that I can form a judgment based reality.

I have my pool plumbed with 2 1/2" and 3" lines. I wish they had used 3" ports on the pump. It seems like such a waste. I am not sure if I will experience cavitation noise and when I transition back to 3" line. I have not given it a run yet. We will be wiring it on Monday. Meanwhile I have this strong impulse to open the drives to take a look. I hope I can keep myself in check.

I believe that in the bigger scheme of things you are providing a great service to the pool community as well as community at large.

Neil

PS: My pool builder is now very enthused about the project, he actually came out with the plumbers for two days and actually helped out. I think people are inherently good and are open to change if someone can show them a better way. For this initial change of attitude I have to thank you! For a permanent switch; we will have to wait for the actual results.

Hi Deek.... I hope this is simple based on other posts on here but I want also confirm so I can get the PB to do what is right....

36K pool... rec with a cover so should be clean and warm with less loss.

We will have a gas heater, DE filter (60 sqft), a polaris 480 and 3x24" sheer descents... The cleaner will need a separate pump so thats ok....

Current plan is to have 3 other pumps, 1.5 HP for filtering, .75 for water features and .75 for the heater...

I believe based on what I have read here I believe all these could be combined into an intelliflo v3050. The current plan is to have a dual bottom drain and two separate plumbed skimmers... The piping is 2 " all round. cleaner is completely separate plumbed as well..

So does this sound ok?? Anything I missed...
Thanks

Hope to get your input...