Mike, I tried s/h for two years on phals, catts and oncids. Also some encyclias. I was a newbie and unfortunately took the FAQ and board remarks about how you can't overwater in s/h atface value. I was hoping to avoid problems, but in fact I was mired in them for two years. The encyclias never took to it, just died off steadily that whole summer. The phals did not adapt well to it either, just kept getting smaller and smaller, losing roots again every time they gained some. Two years in a row. Catts did ok in the summer, but lost roots all winter. Oncids, a couple put out huge wonderful root mass in the s/h, but most of them followed the catt pattern of ok in summer, decline in winter. I grow under six 400W HID in a basement light room. Some of the loss problems the first year, I believe were from planting too low trying to get the new roots into the s/h, and other newbie mistakes. The second year convinced me I would never get anywhere losing a whole years growth every winter, and I switched to AG for the catts and oncids. That has worked really well for them, and I have lots of spikes on the oncids this year. Reviving: One benefit I got was that I learned a lot about saving things, so I'll tell you what I found out. 1. Oncids: The best re-rooting of both catts and oncids happened in clay pots with some lava rocks at the bottom, and a thin layer of sphag on top of that. I found some of the catts actually put down roots *from the rhyzome* in this kind of arrangment, even tho I thought most of them only put out new roots from the new pbs. I didn't fill the pots with lava, just a couple of inches on the bottom, then a thin layer of sphag over that. So the plant sat far down inside the pot, and got humidity from the bottom and sides. I do think that helped the new roots form. Since the plant was so low, those rhyzome holders didn't work, and I used various tricks to wedge the plant in to keep it from moving around and dislodging the roots forming. I finally settled on wedging it in with clay pot feet. 2. Catts with a lot of brassavola in them (like Bc Maikai, and B Little Stars) actually re-rooted in the s/h set up if I draped a thin layer of sphag over the pellets near the newer pbs. They pretty quickly put out new roots into the sphag, just scooting along the top and staying in the thin sphag layer. Oncids with a new pb to work from also behave like this. 3. Phals revived in the same sphag/clay/lava rock setting, but I only had two left by the time I hit on that method. They were both tiny scraps with no roots and two leaves about 1" each. Saved them, tho, and they are nice size now growing in pure sphag. Both bloomed last year (one year after revival) 4. I used lots of rooting hormones: 1st, a float in dilute liquid hormone (hormex), then painting of eyes (catts and oncids) or root nubs or area (phals) with clonex gel. That stuff really works, new roots start on many in a month, the rest take 6 weeks or so. The sphag seems to inhibit rot and give the new roots that start a benign environment to spread themselves out in. Also raises the humidity a little in the root area. Once I had a cluster of new roots, the catts and oncids went into Aussie Gold. The phals I left in sphag. I water with a dilute hormex solution for the first 6 weeks to 2 months. Helps them get established. Hope this helps.

I do Ken, and love it. I've downloaded tons of stuff on DNA. I never remember numbers. It is a waste of my gray matter when I've learned where to find them elsewhere. I'm a binary woman=1 or 2 or neither. So I know dna exists as a double helix, meaning two strands wrap around each other. Where they touch is a nexus. There are millions of them and they are supposed to match. It is at each nexus where genetic history is communicated. If just one nexus is mutant and doesn't match the result is a mutated organism. Usually it is insignificant and the mutation regresses, but doesn't really go away. However, during reproduction (particularly when a species has a rapid reproduction cycle, like fish and hostas) it is more likely the mutation becomes stronger and a knew, in our case hosta comes into existence. Since hostas develop completely new leaves each season, this explains why seedlings often revert back to green. Solid green absorbs sun energy better and the plant has no need to retain the variegation. My Guacamole gets a goodly amount of sun and is rather unspectacularly variegated. It looks much like a dark plantaginea with slightly rounded leaves. It rained all day yesterday (Yay!) but only totaled 1/4". Until yesterday I hadn't received 1/10" total for July. Normal is over 4". But it is raining again this morning. I didn't want to lay on wet ground observing hostas. So I still have to put together the information I am developing Idiothe (I am just now making sense of you forum name :o I will tell you another way to tell them apart other than viability (I think).Look at the shape of the base of the leaf where it meets the pets. In what I believe to be cathayana the edge of the leaf conjoins the pet more in the shape of a "V", with straight edges. In Lancifolia it can be described better as a "U", with no notch. Both are oblong rather than lance shaped with the Lancifolia being slightly more so. The length to width ratios are different with the cathayana being narrower. Both have equally acute tips. If you like you can follow this in Shmids work on species hostas. This is a bit lengthy, but are not subjects that can be glanced over and understood. I am trying to make it as easy to understand as possible, and as I am typing I am not looking at notes. Not taking anything away from forum members, but I refer to my ability or inability to accurately communicate my thoughts Theresa This post was edited by gogirlterri on Wed, Jul 31, 13 at 9:01

As some here know I have had 2 large windmills in the ground going on 5 years, with a smaller one added 2 years ago. As stated well by jimhardy, tropicalzone7 et al, there are huge variations of climate within zones. Oklahoma City is technically the same zone as NYC and although we got 14 inches of snow in one storm last year and had sustained single digits, the two areas are vastly different in climate. I think we should agree that a hardy palm or any plant for that matter should be rated for a zone by its ability to thrive in that zone continuously without protection of any kind. The first 2 years my Trachys went unprotected and suffered bad damage from the wind and freezing rain. My Butia lived under a tarp with a 100 watt flood light happily for 2 years but died with the same protection after 3 days of temps below 12 degrees. I am confident all my hardy palms would not thrive without protection. I even lost a big Bismarkia in a pot from the heat last summer! Here is a link that might be useful: okcpalms

Hey Greg, I'm so glad you all had a good soaking rain today!!! Only wish that I could take the credit!!! LOL...But we all know who really deserves the credit... Mother Nature of course!!! as well as the big guy upstairs!!! We did receive a great shower this afternoon...so I quickly put out my rain barrals and placed them under the eaves. Within 15 minutes or so they were full...so of course I had to grab a few (6) of my five gallon buckets to fillup as well...The only problem was that the showers were so off ond on that I had to stay on the rain collection duty...Yes, I was completely soaked...Only plant lovers would do this for them right? I know that my neighbors wonder what I'm up to sometimes...but it's good for them to keep them guessing!!! LOL...Now I have collected in a matter of 45 minutes...70 gallons of rainwater. I guess it was worth getting drenched for that amount of water!!! It will be gone in a couple of days with this intense heat we are having...but I loved doing it today...I felt like a kid again!!! Hope that the storms that are forcasted for tommorow will reach you again...Put out those barrals!!! I'll be waiting to hear if you collected any amounts Greg!!! :) How are your Hardy Hibiscus doing? The Agaves? Enjoy the rest of your summer... Take care everyone!!! Laura in VB