Please bear in mind that many of the builders that frequent this board are busy building. They will probably respond but it will take some time. Many of the people that post here also post at TFP too, myself included. If your pool is already walled, backfilled and decked, the fact that you have a Hayward light niche and sand filter already pretty much makes the continuance of the Hayward equipment for the sake of continuity and integration a simpler path. The additional warranty is a bonus as is the fact that it will likely cost you less. I hope you weren't stung too badly by the PB's actions that lead to his conviction. If the pool has not been decked yet, it may be possible to change the niche but I don't know if the the mounting holes will line up. I have never had to replace a niche. Adding an addition hole for another niche with a steel walled pool might require an replacement wall panel. That will likely cost you a liner too. The additional fixture and niche is what costs, daisy chaining the power is usually pretty simple if the deck boxes and near each other. Without the decking, increasing the pipe sizes is easier, regardless of the pump. Slower moving water = less friction loss which begets lower energy costs and also improves safety, especially at the suction outlets. While the returns will be smaller, especially with eyeball return fittings in place, feeding them with bigger pipes is beneficial. A 2" pipe can move twice the water at a given velocity that a 1.5" pipe can. Slower moving water through the pipes is less energy lost due to friction. WRT to whether the Hayward vs Pentair filter is better, I personally feel that the Pentair Tagelus is a better top mounted sand filter. The parts it's made from are stronger. A simple example the is easy to see is the stand pipe takes the filtered water from the bottom of the sand bed to the multiport. The Hayward uses a much thinner plastic pipe that is known to crack, leaking sand back into the pool. The Pentair uses pressure rated Schedule 40 pipe, a MUCH stronger material that doesn't crack. The Pentair Tagelus 100D, equivalent to the S310T 500 lb. filter, has a slightly larger sand bed. Pentair's multiports, in my experience, tend to last longer before needing attention/servicing. I am not a big fan of the Tri-Star series but that's what Hayward uses for their variable speed pumps. IMHO, a 3/4 HP Super Pump will give you the flow you need for filtering and backwashing. A simple Intermatic timer set(one for the pool pump, one for the pool sweep booster) is all the automation you need. The light is easily turned on and off with a switch. Changing to a LED fixture will not light the pool effectively with only one fixture. There just aren't enough lumens. Adding fixtures is a very expensive proposition. If it's what you want and are prepared to pay for it, great, but taking apart a pool to change a wall panel isn't an easy task. If the deck is poured, you'll lose the deck too. The addition of an automation controller and variable speed pump is an expensive eye candy set of additions that for your pool, are unlikely to be a cost effective, problem solving set of additions that would, in the long run, make repairs more likely and more expensive. Yes, the variable speed pump would save you on energy costs, but I don't think to the tune of the additional initial costs. If you decide against changing the plumbing size, you must remember to set the speeds/ flows down so they don't exceed 75 gallons per minute or you will starve the pump of water. This will cause a condition called cavitation where the impeller of the pump is spinning but not moving as much water as it was designed to a given speed, wasting energy and generating vibration at the shaft, increasing wear and tear on the pump's bearing, seals, and motor shaft that will reduce it's life expectancy. It will also run louder. The communications from Brand A's controller is different than the communications link from Brand B's pump. While Pentair offers the Intellicom II to help with Pentair's variable speed pumps, it cost's the non Easy Touch/Intelli-Touch controllers expensive relays and limits you to 4 speeds. It makes more sense to match the controller and pump manufacturers on a new installation. A two speed pump with any of the the major controllers is not a problem. They are all similar in how they control the pump and how the pump's speeds are selected which allows interoperability between the brands. The controller need to be configured with a two speed relay, both physically and in it's programming. Since you don't have a south facing roof, I think solar will be of very limited use and would be an expensive disappointment. A heat pump with a solar cover is likely to be more effective and offers a more economical way to heat your pool over a gas fired heater. If the pool is too hot, there are versions that can cool the pool too. If the pool has a return port installed already for an auto filler to be connected, the Letro will be fine. It's not something you can just add to an already constructed pool without going through a similar set of efforts needed for adding a niche. Better is a subjective term. WRT which salt cell I think is better designed, I prefer the Intellichlor because it's electronics are on the cell, not in with the power supply. This offers two significant advantages. The first is at replacement cell time, you get new electronics. The second is the heat in a power supply cabinet will shorten the life of the control board of the other brands of cells. Pentair also offers a larger available unit that will last longer than the Hayward. If you go with a gas fired heater, it should be a 400K BTU unit. How the gas company feeds their meter is their problem. Heaters, funaces, stoves, etc... require a substantially lower pressure but consistent volume after the meter to function correctly. In order to supply the volume a pool heater needs at the lower gas pressure a residential device needs, the pipe size needs to increase. The added size adds a steadying buffer for the pressure as other gas appliances turn on and off. The heater's regulator is a 3/4" line. The shorter the length of pipe @ 3/4", the better. A 400K BTU heater needs at least a 1.5" supply run before it's reduced to the 3/4" connection. Long feed lines need 2" pipe to the meter but I don't get the impression you will need that. The person you spoke to at the gas company may have misunderstood you needs. I have never heard of a gas company having to run a separate line/meter to a residential home. I'm not saying it isn't possible, only unlikely that the existing line feeding the existing meter couldn't handle the additional load a gas fired heater would generate. That is normally just a change in the meter. Meters serve two purposes, one is to measure how much gas is used and the other is to regulate the pressure to the customer's plumbing. Given the information you have shared, I suspect that my replies will give you plenty to think about and will save you some money. Think about the wants/needs/haves ratios and the constraints I have mentioned. If my understandings are correct, you will find my suggestions reasonable. Best Of Luck; Scott

Just to follow up on this in case someone with a similar problem searches the forum for help.... My old cell was clogging up quickly between cleanings. I know I have high TA, but I've always had high TA, and the speed of build-up was increasing over time. Moreover, even with a spotless salt cell and known good levels of salt in the pool, I could not get my average reading above 2400 for any length of time (instants were always around 2100 or 2200, with voltage levels at 25.2 or higher, though the amp readings were usually fine). Within a couple days of a recent cleaning, my average would drop to 2100 and the system would shut down. I could trick the system into starting off with a very high average (the click off, click on, wait for sound of generation starting, cycle display to instant read, and immediately flip up to super chlorinate and back to on to lock in something in the high 3000s) but that was a only temporary fix. I knew my cell was done. Whether it was due to normal wear of the plate's surface elements, bad manufacturing, or from me giving the cell too many acid baths I'll never know. So I searched the net and found two options. One was a CompuPool replacement cell for $350 (shipping and taxes included) from Pool Supply Unlimited with a 3 year warranty. The other was a Hayward T-Cell-15 OEM model for about $440 (S&T included) from Pool Supply 4 Less with a 3 year warranty as well. The $90 difference was very attractive, but everything I could find about CompuPool suggested that warranty returns were a nightmare, even if they accepted the fact that the unit failed (stories of months waiting for the replacement are common). I figured that it was almost certain that I'd need to take the unit back to the manufacturer in the next three years, and if I did so, Hayward would probably be the better option. I live in Southern California and there are official Hayward service centers scattered around this part of the state, which would make things easier even though I bought the unit on-line from a discount supplier. I swapped in the new T-Cell-15 and as I suspected, the pool readings were just fine. I now have averages of 3200 to 3400, instant reads in about the same range, and voltage\amp values within recommended numbers. One of the things that ticks me off is that I repeatedly went to Leslie's in the last two months to have them test the old cell, and in every instance they said it was just fine. When I'd plug it back in upon returning home, I'd be back down to 2300 average in an hour, just hovering over the shutdown level. They, and Hayward's customer service department, kept telling me that it wasn't my cell, it was my controller, and that I should buy a complete new system (of course!), but the satisfactory readings from the replacement cell suggest that they may have interests other than my best ones in mind when developing their recommendations. Good luck to you if you are reading this! ...

quote" when I started in the pool biz, a time clock and air switch was for high rollers........"quote I'm sitting here LMAO!!! When I started in this game we plumbed whistlers. They provided more hydro therapy action at the jet than any of todays whiz bang jets with a horse and a half air blower. The problem was the noise. Now I can't hardly remember the last dual timer and AS Relay I installed. Everything has been Aqualink for the past 10 years. Colt, I'm curious, do you work for the worlds largest pool wholesaler or PWP? If so please disregard the following. Deek, are you telling me I can buy a 4X160 from PWP for 718 bucks on their published price list? They, the worlds largest pool distributor, came to town and promised great service and fair prices. On the service aspect they've delivered in spades, but on the fair prices I've had my suspicions for some time now. If you can purchase the 4X160 pump for 200 less it means they're charging me almost 25% more. That equates to a near 40% markup for the distributor. This is way way more markup than normal construction wholesale distributors work for. My biggest joke with my outside rep when he asks me how I'm doing is "Not only am I smoking more and enjoying it less, but I'm also paying more for service and enjoying it less too" I haven't bought from PWP since the early 90's and haven't shopped pricing in 10 years but now I'm convinced I probably should. repairguy, I don't think I said that the starter of this thread could save as much electricity with a 2-speed pump. I think I said that they could save nearly an equal amount of electricity by utilizing a Jandy 2speed or Whisperflo 2speed pump and save money on their equipment purchase. I also didn't say that I don't embrace new technology I think I said that I'm sure that these pumps are the way of the future, but in the meanwhile I'll wait for the prices to drop. Please don't attempt to read things in my posts that I'm not saying and then rewrite them to play off of my reply. FWIW, I quote quite a bit of this new equipment and have placed it into service on quite a few pools. It's awesome stuff!!! But, I'll quote my buyers the actual cost of my setup -vs- your setup and let them make the decision based on their interpretation of whether it is or isn't worth the extra money. This way they won't have me to blame because I told them about the benefits of each. Don't take my replies as me knocking the product and don't take this as me knocking you. It's just my take on the situation. BTW, I'm sorry you don't like DE filters. I've always found them to be great filters. My pool is 120000 gallons and is always crystal clear even on short filter run times. I attribute this to my DE filters. Thanks for you guys input, this thread will go a long way towards enlightening new members contemplating a pool purchase. I saw where Eann is looking to purchase the variable speed online. I'm fixing to go over to that thread and second your advice to steer clear of Internet wholesalers. See ya, Kelly

It wasn't taken personally, I assure you. My point was that to judge Jandy, now a part of Zodiac (big changes happened there) is an error. Sure, unfortunately, you got screwed along with many others and for that, all those in the boat have my condolences. I doubt the "why they did it" will ever be made public. They don't tell me. I try to keep an open mind. They still make some darn good gear and have come out with some new and innovative stuff since Zodiac came into the picture. As to the service end, as I said earlier, manufacturers don't want to pay market rates for the really good techs. Some service providers will do it for customer acquisition purposes. This often leaves the less experienced, new services to do the warranty work to keep costs down. Pool builders and those service providers that have been around a while often feel as I do in that they will only care for their own customers warranty claims. The obstacles the manufacturers often put up annually I have found makes for a money losing proposition. Generally, I keep busy enough without needing the acquisition of more new customers from them. My new customer acquisition costs are generally lower than the hit I would take accepting their payouts. I get plenty of new customers already. Lets suppose a potential client bought something on line and it needed service under warranty. If I sold it, I service it for free but if I didn't sell it and I was a warranty service center, I would have to accept Jandy's terms. The customer would be at the bottom of the priority stack because of the lower rates and the tech sent isn't as likely to be as experienced a person so that the provider can keep costs down. Some don't provide service at all since the burdened cost of doing so is more than the "low price wins" guy. They feel they want to stay competitive with them. I can't subsidize them. As a warranty service center, I would be forced to though. Scott