Reverse negative edge
donnaw
12 years ago
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Comments (13)
poolguynj
12 years agocascade
12 years agoRelated Discussions
Negative edge wall material + general help
Comments (4)kitamiman, I have used Pebble-Tec and Quartzscapes on negitive edge pools. Most manufacturers don't like to have their product used where it is not covered with water. I prefer to use tile or stone on these surfaces if I can. Your coment about 4" gunite walls with only 30% of the pool in ground does raise some red flags. Hopefully, any supporting material is key-cut and compacted to 95%. The edge wall should be engineered as a freestanding wall. This usually means using #4(1/2") and/or #5(5/8") rebar or larger depending on thickness and type of concrete. Good luck....See Moredoes neg. edge pool require two pumps?
Comments (4)shellip, Scott is correct. There are several ways to plumb these pools. I have usually used a single pump system. As Scott indicated, it depends on the look you want on the backside of the dam wall and the length of the wall. I treat the basin as a big skimmer and pump everything thru the filter. A well built wall will only require 1-3 gpm/ft of wall to look good. Variable speed pumps work very well for these pool applications. It's also a good idea to run the pump while the pool is being used so the kids don't splash out so much water that the basin is overflowing. 2 pump system: One pump filters the pool water just like a normal pool. The second pump draws unfiltered water from the basin and puts it in the pool. The second pump should be running while the pool is in use(splash out reason I described above). It will also need to be run each day because the automatic water fill is placed in the basin. IMO the one pump system filters all the water all the time and I find it more efficient. Having a hand held or other electronic control is really handy for this application when you want to turn the pump on without having to go out to the equipment area each time. Biggest factor to good operation is sizing the basin correctly. Better to big than too small. You might ask your PB how he calculated the basin size. He should be able to tell you how much water will be in the basin with the pump running and about how much freeboard area they are allowing for. Good luck....See MoreNegative edge
Comments (9)Poolio- Congratulations on your new pool. We just opened our new pool a month ago and I can understand your situation regarding pre-teen energy causing too much water in the trough. I too have an infinity edge and the ability to change speeds on the infinity edge pump to have different waterfall effects. I have a 2 speed pump instead of variable speed. Our infinity edge system sounds similar to yours in size, 16 feet of infinity edge in an arc with the trough being 3 feet deep by 3 feet wide or about 1,300 gallons. The pool is 30,000 gallons for a ratio of 23:1. An autofill system keeps the trough water level at the bottom of the 6" waterline tile when the pump is running on high speed. My PB said this is to protect the life of the plaster. When the pump is off, the trough level rises to just below the overflow pipe which is halfway up the 6"tile. From my experience so far, the higher pump flow is needed to remove heavy overflow from large waves. The low speed, which is about 50 gpm in my case, will handle moderate waves all day long, but larger waves over short timeframes require high speed to remove the water from the trough fast enough, about 140 gpm in my case. I would not recommend keeping the waterline below the tile line to expose plaster very long. This is not good for the life of the plaster and will only delay and not eliminate overflow when the big waves persist for long periods of time. It is the rate of water removal that is important when heavy waves happen and not the trough volume. The extra trough volume will only delay overflow but not entirely prevent overflow. Regarding sound at high speed, do you have a throttle valve at the discharge of the pump. Sometimes this valve can be used to adjust the backpressure on the pump and minimize sound at the cost of slightly higher watts. Although I think the 4x160 will try to compensate for the backpressure and run faster which may increase sound and watts. Someone else who knows this pump will have to help with this question. After living with our infinity edge pool for a month now, I am glad we have one. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages from our perspective. Advantages: The appeal and wow factor plus built in skimmer for leaves and anything else that floatsÂeasier to clean debris out of a 3x3 trough instead of the pool itself. Disadvantages: Water loss due to heavy waves when pump is on low speed. Water loss due to rainfall is also increased because the trough canÂt hold as much extra water as the pool could without the infinity edge, this is where a larger trough volume would help. Did I mention the wow factorÂ.we love our infinity edge despite the water loss shortcomings which are minimal. Hope this helps....See MoreNeed help negative edge pool
Comments (18)Pump sizing all starts with how much water you need to turn over. Start with your gallons per minute first. How much do I need to make the water go over the edge? Depending on the type of finish on the weir wall will determine how much flow you need over the edge. Tile is the least resistant and stone will cause the most due to its uneveness. If you have tile done with a tight tolerance of 1/16" of an inch then you would only need 18.56 gallons per minute over the edge for 33 feet. Let's say the tile guy is not perfect and you have an 1/8" to overcome then you need 52.46 gallons per minute. Now you know what pump you need to push the water over the edge. Even a smaller variable speed pump will do this. It doesn't need to be 3 hp. Next figure out your pipe diameter. I do not plumb my pools to meet the minimum feet per second requirement by code. I go below that. I try for 4.5 feet per second for the suction side and 6.0 feet per second for the return side. This is how fast the water is moving through the pipe. For 53 gallons per minute my pipe diameter must be 2.5" for the suction and 2" for the return to meet that standard. Keep in mind that even with a smaller variable speed pump like the Pentair I1 that the max gallons per minute is 120. Since code requires that I have to have the proper pipe size that can handle the max gallons per minute of my pump than I have to have at least a 3" on the suction side and 2.5" on the return. You can lock out the pump so it does not exceed a certain rpm so you could go with a smaller pipe but people find a way around the lock out so it's better to just go with the bigger pipe. A 5 hp pump is way overkill for what you have. Huge waste of energy and a lot of noise. It's does look like he put on a 6" suction on the pump for the basin but what does he have on the rerun side? Sounds like the pump is restricted on the return. If you follow the rule of 4.5 feet per second on the suction and 6.0 feet per second on the return side then it doesn't matter what your head pressure is. It will fall in line. Hope this helps....See Moredonnaw
12 years agocascade
12 years agopoolguynj
12 years agocascade
12 years agorobiff
12 years agocascade
12 years agonatural_one
12 years agocascade
12 years agoI don't disagree. This was designed by a landscape architect who loved the idea and we did 2 or 3 like this for him at the same time. Part of the reason I liked the idea on this job was because the project was located in an area remote from the city where there was little or no local support for the owner for maintenance or repairs. In fact the owners have been doing everything themselves and I find that true negative edge pools require more hands on maintenance work. I think this was a good compromise in the situation. It's probably saved me more than a few ferry rides LOL.
I agree on the finish, that's about my favourite plaster colour. We still do white in 90% of our pools but we did that colour 3 or 4 times last year and it's beautiful.One other detail on that pool that's kinda cool is how we did the coping with the pool cover. (I didn't do the decks, just the inside forms BTW)
Obviously the cover hadn't been installed yet in that pic but it comes from under the coping with no brackets holding stones.
donnaw
12 years agokriseye
3 years ago
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