First off, is there enough swing space to open the fridge?

And are you taking full advantage of custom? You don't have a lot of storage and might want to rethink the fridge area to get use out of the basement door wall.

Is the table for eating? Or working?

Is this also your dining room? If your fridge door hinges on the left, you won't be able to open the door adequately with it up against the wall.

It's a personal choice, I guess, but I think the range would feel less crowded if the corner base didn't have the diagonal door. I'd sure like to switch the dw to the other side of the sink so the open dw doesn't trip up the cook or be right in the back of his or her legs, but you might be afraid it will block the door? Is that door used often?

I agree w/the earlier comments about frig. placement -- be sure that you can fully open the door. Also, you could still do a lazy susan w/out a diagonal door in that corner and as rhome said might help feel less cramped. Do you have a place for trash/recycling? Microwave?

Also, if you are doing inset cabs, MAKE SURE you understand what that means in terms of interior cabinet space. My uppers are approx. 14" deep so that I could have 12" of interior depth in my uppers. I have one upper that is more shallow at 12" and the interior depth of that is only about 10.5". An 11" dinner plate would not fit in this.

I say this b/c a friend had custom inset cabinets built and when she went to load them after finishing her beautiful remodel -- her dinner plates would not fit in her upper cabinets! Talk about tears, it was a tough time, but the contractor came back and figured out how to "bump out" the cabinet back 3/4" so that she could get her plates in, but it was a pain to say the least. She can now get her plates in, though.

Thanks so much for the replies!

First off, I forgot to address the fridge in my original post. I have it marked on the plan as 36" - the actual fridge is only 32.5". However, it is a 10 yr old side by side. I hope to eventually replace it with a new 33.5" bottom freezer model that will hinge on the right - away from the wall.

The fridge area is the part that I am most unsure of. Fori, what would you suggest to take advantage of the wall?

Rhome, I worried about that corner door, but I recently saw a thread where someone had the bifold inset door and was upset by how small the opening was. My neighbor has one of those bifold doors, and I hate it. it doesn't work well and it hits the other cabinets. I also like having that little extra bit of counter. That exterior door is the one I use the most, but I suppose I could switch the dw. I hadn't thought about that. It would be easier to unload on the other side. And I do have a dining room but I use it as an office. My house is old, small, & cramped, and the dining room is basically a wide hallway between the kitchen & the living room.

Alice, I hadn't even thought about making the uppers deeper - that is a great idea. My plates have never fit in any of my cabinets, and so I've been planning a plate drawer instead, but it would be good if they could fit in the uppers. I am planning to maybe put the microwave next to the fridge, & the garbage can lives on the empty window wall. I wanted a garbage pullout but I couldn't justify giving up any of my tiny cabinet space.

Thanks for all of the tips! I'd love to hear any other ideas, especially for that fridge area.

Bumping for more ideas. Thanks in advance!

Okay, here's one, Melanie. If it were mine, I think I'd put a large single-bowl sink in a 30" cabinet and slide the dishwasher to the left six inches. The sink wouldn't be centered, but in this space I don't think that would even be noticed (table and windows are the centering elements), and that extra space to the right of the dishwasher would be a big gain. Besides opening up intriguing additional cabinet inches, 18" or so of floor is plenty of room for a person to step into while the DW is open. While doing this, I'd also confirm I still wanted a diagonal corner cabinet out of the new possibilities opened up.

Regarding your fridge, nice as a little hutch might look down there, I'd put a pullout to the right of the fridge for whatever storage would be needed now and open up fridge door swing possibilities. I'd also plan to allow room to install a larger fridge in future if needed.

The framers goofed up my fridge nook, and it won't hold a 36"er. Like you, I didn't need one then and still don't need one now, but I certainly didn't intend to create a space that fails to meet current standards and may well fail our needs in future. I don't know what tomorrow's fridges are going to offer, but like I told my husband when we were discussing how much space for the microwave, if they come up with one that also washes the cat (she was tracking mud everywhere), I'm going to want room for it.

Rosie, I think you're saying that if I went back to a bifold door on that corner and moved the dishwasher, I could stand in the space between the oven side and the dishwasher when unloading? What would I do with the six extra inches of cabinets? And do you think that an inset bifold door will be problematic, like in the thread linked?

With the fridge, are you thinking something like this?

Or would I need to go 18/18 on either side of the fridge? Or switch the fridge to the doorway side? I'd really hate to put the fridge next to the doorway, because I feel like it would be very in your face when you come in that way. And I am not a big fan of the pull out pantry, to tell the truth.

I am trying to leave a 36" space for the fridge, even though I don't need it now. Is that big enough, or do I really need more space?

I'd really like to stick the microwave on the fridge side, because the one I have is huge (I know, I could buy another one, but that one works and is still under warranty for another year or so) and I hate to have it in the way of my prep space.

Please sign me up for the microwave that washes the cat. Or anything that washes the cat. They really need baths right now, as they can't seem to stay out of the drywall dust. They also have a tendency to fall in the toilet - is it just my cats that can't figure out how to NOT fall in the toilet?

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread where OP is unhappy with inset bifold door

Okay, here is what it would look like with deeper uppers.

The only thing that worries me is that I lose visible space in the blind upper corner. Do you think thats a problem? Do you think that blind corner is a problem in general? The house I grew up in had blind corners like that, and I never felt like it was a problem.

I changed the side that the dishwasher was on. I guess that would make it easier to unload, and give more space for working at the range? It makes the sink off center - would I have to move plumbing? Because I'd really rather not. And I'm not sure I like the way it looks off center, but if it will make a big difference in functionality, I guess I can handle it.

Also, I forgot to deepen the cabinets on the hutch part. Oops.

I've been thinking about this, and I just don't know if I'd be happy with the drawers and the DW switched. It makes more sense, function-wise, but it just looks wrong. I just think that I'll be bothered by it. I'm just a little OCD, and I need things to be even.

Here's the sink in the cabinets, does it make a difference?

This is my sink (not my faucet), which came with the house and I like it, so I'd like to keep it.

I'm also still waffling about that corner door. Does anyone have an inset corner bi-fold door? I'd love to know how much space I'll have to put things in that cabinet, as opposed to having the diagonal regular door. I've gone back and looked at my inspiration photos, and it seems like most people who do inset doors do a blind corner cabinet instead of the lazy susan type. Should I give up on this kind of cabinet all together? No one seems to use the diagonal door...is it that bad? Also, I don't know if it matters, but I'm planning on using cabinet latches, not knobs. I'll use (non-cup) pulls on the drawers.

Thanks!

I'd forgotten you were having inset cabinets when I suggested the front change on the corner base cab, but have you considered how small the opening will be to have the diagonal door with the inset frames? I had a 2-pc door for a right angle front lazy susan cabinet in our last house that I liked, because it gave me a wider opening than a diagonal door would, and because I felt it gave me longer stretches of counter in each direction, but it wasn't inset.

I'm confused about the sink issue, because the sink isn't centered on the window either way, although I suppose it's closer to centered with the dw on the right. But the faucet, which is what's most visible, is more centered with the dw on the left. And I wonder if it wouldn't be better for the sink to be more intentionally off center than almost-but-not-quite? If my son wasn't on the other computer, I'd try to do a 3D mockup for you. If I can in a little while, I will.

OK, when I do the layout to scale, I see how the sink centers with the dw on the right. But because of the off-center faucet, I don't think it looks bad either way. The other thing to consider is the suggestion to get a 30" sink and enlarge the 18" cabinet, since you will be spending a lot to get a new kitchen, and are working around a $200 sink, which may not be for the best.

Thanks so much for the 3D mockup and all the ideas, RHome! I think you are right about the faucet - it does make it less noticeable that the sink is off center. I know the sink would be off center either way, but before it seemed less noticeable the other way. I think DW on the left is probably the way to go. You don't think it would be a problem to have the DW next to the shallow cabinet, do you? I guess there's a panel or something the cabinet guy can put next to it?

I know that basically my options for doors with that corner are going to be tight either way. If I'd give up on insets, it would be so much easier...but I like the insets. Do you think I'd have more space with the bi-fold? I haven't seen an inset door on the diagonal anywhere, so I just have no idea. I just like the idea of that extra bit of counter (I have almost no counter space in the old kitchen), and not having that bi-fold door bang against the other cabinets.

I hate to change to a 30" sink. The sink I have did come with the house, but its a Kohler cast-iron, which seems to cost $450ish online. I can't find a sink with two basins in a 30". And I really like this sink - I like the cast-iron, and I like having two basins, one small and one large. If I could fit in a prep sink somewhere, I could handle having a single bowl for the main sink, but without a prep sink... I just can't see myself giving that up.

What do you think about the fridge area? Thanks in advance!

Here is mine:

We are still far from finished - but I have not found this set up to be problematic for me at all. What would have been more difficult for me would have been if the corner was a diagonal -- I would never have been able to reach into the corner area of the counter.

I also like rhome's mockup w/your DW on the left and the faucet centered on the window.

Oh, now I see! Thank you so much, Alice! I didn't realize how much room I'd have with the door folded flat like that. Your cabinets are beautiful! I love the color.

Okay, so here is what I have now:

I still don't know about the fridge area. Is there something else I should do there?

My sink is Kohler cast iron and was closer to $280...It's a Clarity. But it's a 2-basin that requires a 36" cabinet, too. I can understand your wish to stay with the 2-basin, and I sure wouldn't go to a 30" in that case.

I still worry about having to have a fridge that opens from the wall side to work in that spot. It seems like the wrong way. I think I might consider a 6 inch filler or a 12-inch pullout pantry on the wall side of the fridge, and, sadly, reduce the counter and cabinet on the other side accordingly.

Hi Rhome! I have played with that fridge area, and here is what I've come up with. Is the lower right one kind of what you were thinking? I just don't know what I'd do with that 12" piece. I really don't like the lower left one, but I was trying to figure out some way to use both walls. If the fridge was counter-depth, would it make a difference? What do you think? Surely there is a better way that I just haven't thought of. I have just never had a fridge that wasn't in the corner!

I also talked to the contractor and he says it is no big deal to move the sink over and put the DW on the left. Yay! He agreed that it would be much much better over there.

With my sink, I just googled it. I have no idea how much it really cost to begin with. Knowing the guy that built my old kitchen, he probably rescued it from the garbage. It's in really good condition though! It is silly to plan a kitchen around a sink, but I'm going to want a double dowl either way.

Thanks for all the input! I really appreciate you all helping me out. :)

No use changing sinks if you want a double basin and are happy with that one, and are happy with the layout with it in.

Do you have the same amount of wall space on the dining room doorway wall and the basement door wall for the fridge?

I don't think you gain anything with the corner in trying to use both walls. You just create a cavelike counter corner that isn't of much use, and if you don't have a counter depth fridge, that base corner cabinet will be very difficult to access...Maybe not great even with a counter depth fridge.

Putting the fridge right next to the dining room doorway would make that area feel like a tunnel...The same if you do a full depth tall cabinet there. I prefer an upper over a counter next to that doorway, so even if you did a 12" pantry on the side of the fridge, I'd leave the other side in an upper and lower. You could have the 12" be a pullout pantry (see link for example) or a broom closet. Either would be easier to access with a counter depth fridge.

I know that others have done narrower tall cabinets, so you might be able to get away with something less than 12" on that side. See the photos in Dianalo's post in this forum discussion:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0716483024815.html

Here is a link that might be useful: tall pantry pull out example

I agree with you completely about the corner and the fridge next to the doorway. Yuck.

I think I have about 10" less space on the basement door wall. So switching the fridge to that wall probably wouldn't help anything.

Do you think I need a full 12" on the right of the fridge? Looking at those Ikea broom closets, some of them were only 4"! How much space do I have to add on that side? I just really hate to give up anymore hutch space. I originally wanted a larger hutch there, but there just wasn't any more room. Now to make it smaller still... I'm just worried it won't be very useful.

What do you think about the uppers? Do you think that blind corner will be okay?

Thanks again!

It depends on the model of fridge how far you need to open the door in order to pull out drawers and shelves for cleaning or adjustment. Different models different depths of handles and have their door racks configured differently and in orientation to where drawers pull out. If a drawer, for example, needs to pull out right where there's a shelf deep enough to hold a gallon jug, the door will have to open further to create more clearance. (I hope that makes sense) Anyway, 12" would be safest, but some models may allow less and be just fine.

I just checked mine...If I had only 4" between my fridge and a wall, I could get the drawers open all the way, but wouldn't be able to pull them all the way out of the fridge if I wanted to for washing them out...But I see I'd also need more than a foot, so maybe that's just going to have to be one of the compromises in your particular kitchen.

Do you mean the blind corner between the stove and sink? Are you doing a blind corner, where one cabinet continues in behind the other, or are you just doing a dead corner, as you have it drawn? I could see either one working OK. With the blind corner, you could keep larger or less often used things back in the corner...It seems like you'd be able to see and access things back there OK, since it's not too deep. The dead corner would probably be easiest if you don't need the storage space. I don't view that corner storage as a big loss.

I see what you mean. I hadn't thought about cleaning the fridge! (You can tell how often I clean my fridge...it hadn't even crossed my mind! How embarrassing.) I'll have to go to the appliance store and play with the fridge I plan to buy. As the plan is now, I will have four extra inches anyway, but I'd be in trouble if I someday bought a larger fridge. If I have a bottom freezer, single upper door fridge, should the hinges be next to the wall or opposite the wall? If the hinges are opposite the wall, the door will open all the way, but I might feel trapped inside the fridge. Hinges on the wall side would give me that problem with not being able to open the fridge all the way, but might feel less closed in.

The blind corner is the one in the upper counters, between the stove and sink. I do have it drawn as a dead corner, but I had planned to make it a reach in blind corner, for things I don't often use (specialty glasses, for instance). I have a friend who insists I should have a "normal" diagonal corner cabinet, but I think it would look strange.

Thanks again for all of your input! I can't tell you how much this helps.

I'm with you and not with your friend on how to handle the corner. What you're doing would be my choice.

The fridge issue is tough. I suppose you could get used to having the handle on the wall side and, basically, standing against the wall to get into it. It seems backward, though, and you couldn't use the counter beside as landing space. It'd be worse if the range and sink were to the left, and you had to go around the door to get to them. A French door model might partially solve the problem, but you'd still need a little room between it and the wall...but maybe not as much.

The entry door should be able to swing to a full 90 degree plus, not bang into the corner of the full depth cabinets. I think the shallow depth cabinets will have to fully accomodate the width of the door.

Right now, I have a side-by-side. My floors should be done in the next couple of days...then I will stick the side-by-side in that corner and see how much room it really needs. I just don't know what to do with it. I had wondered if a French door would work better.

I have to go to the store tomorrow anyway to return something for the dishwasher...I will take the camera and tape measure and just see for myself! I'm sure I will look like such a weirdo!

The entry door, unfortunately, is going to hit. If I adjust the cabinets so that it clears, I would have a 13 inch drawer unit, which with inset doors, would basically be useless. The door is 32" - and currently hits the cabinet at not even 14". The fact that it will ALMOST open flat will be huge for me! I can carry a bag a groceries in! The door will hit at about 27". Yes, five more inches of opening space would be great, however, its just not worth it to me to give up that cabinet. My contractor wanted to just move that door over, but then I would have to completely reside the entire house and redo the whole roof.

I will take the camera and tape measure and just see for myself! I'm sure I will look like such a weirdo!

You will look like a smart consumer who knows what she wants and why!