NO. On a mechanical clock which is what you would have in the absence of any advanced automation, the Vs will turn on and off at whatever speed is set. No ability to program a change.

You can do it with an IntelliCom and a 3 speed clock such as the Intermatic P1353ME but that would add over $500 to the job. You may as well use the VF at that point. An EasyTouch 4 with indoor remote and a 4x160 will run about 3k. You really don't need that w/o a spa. The VF is what you need if you want this pump based on the specified needs.

Makes sense. Just to clear up some info. from a pool guy, if you run your pool 5- 8 hours a day, how much of that time would I be running my Hayward Nav (at a higher speed) and how much would I be running at a lower speed for filtering? Pool guy says that the entire 5-8 hours you're running the pool, I should be running Hayward Nav at the higher speed, so it negates the Intelliflo, because pool will always need to run at higher speed for cleaning system...

Most systems that convert from a single speed to an IntelliFlo end up running 8-14 hours daily with a 2-3 hour window for sweep. give it a couple of days and that pool will never be cleaner. The switch from 5-8 at high speed to 8-14 on the new pump will use, on average 50-75% less energy.

Look at the SunTouch automation as well. It's a much cheaper alternative to IntelliTouch. It's less than a thousand bucks even with a QuickTouch remote. We have one on our pool and love it. Like you we don't have a spa. We have it programmed to run our normal filtration with a low pump speed and our cleaner cycle with a higher pump speed. We use the remote to turn on/ off the water features and slide (these can also be programmed in to run daily, but we chose not to do so).

"Look at the SunTouch automation as well. It's a much cheaper alternative to IntelliTouch. It's less than a thousand bucks even with a QuickTouch remote."

Agreed, its a great system for a single body of water.

Wow! Another victim of the variable speed trap! Good advice "Repair Guy"

Purchase the variable speed pump at a low cost and get caught into purchasing the over priced over inflated control system to control it. Sounds like the low priced printer with the over priced cartridge marketing strategy. Then on top of everything else, the manufacture sells an overpriced converter that allows you to use your fairly priced control system so they can make the difference up in the profit they lost to the lost control system sale!

Lesson learned! Look at the entire cost of the project prior to jumping in to the expensive variable speed over kill solution.

A modestly priced two speed pump with a low cost two speed controller would have most likely done the job and the ROI would have been 6 months with the energy cost savings.

Quote: "Purchase the variable speed pump at a low cost and get caught into purchasing the over priced over inflated control system to control it."

The SunTouch system cost us about 250 bucks over time clocks. The QuickTouch remote added a couple hundred more, but the remote isn't required to take advantage of programming multiple speeds. We love our setup, and thanks to the variable speed pump we can run a low filtration cycle pump speed, a moderate pump speed for the cleaner cycle and a high speed for running the water features. There has been no noticable increase in our utility bill much to our surprise! But yeah, if not for the SunTouch it would have been like 2k for us to add automation. We wouldn't have done it had it cost that.

"tresw"

Please donÂt misunderstand me; IÂm glad you are happy with your system.

My point is, there are many options to solve many problems and the variable speed is one of many options, not the ONLY option! It appears that "repair guy" knows only one option, "variable speed". He should change his user name to "Pentair guy" because he apparently works for them.

Variable speed has a whole host of issues and problems never mentioned in these forums. Pray it doesnÂt break! I hope they donÂt mandate SVRSÂs! There are flow and pressure issues to deal with! Delicate converter circuits that can malfunction!

You indicate you paid an additional $250 for the control, plus another additional $200 for the remote, plus another additional $???? for the variable speed pump, probably $400 more then a two speed. That adds up to $850 or about 200 gallons of gas if you live in California.

A lot of people donÂt have that kind of money and want low cost solutions in addition to the high cost solutions. ThatÂs what this forum is all about, "ALL SOLUTIONS", not just one, variable speed.

A two speed pump with the low speed running your filter cycle and the high speed running your cleaner and water features would have saved you $400 and still saved energy. You could of bought a low cost remote system for $200 and saved another $250 off the $450 you spent for the remote system. The ROI would have been much sooner. But again, this is just another option.

If you have the money, thatÂs wonderful, but in todays age, most do not.

Enjoy your system!

"Variable speed has a whole host of issues and problems never mentioned in these forums. Pray it doesnÂt break! I hope they donÂt mandate SVRSÂs! There are flow and pressure issues to deal with! Delicate converter circuits that can malfunction!"

I don't know where you have been, but people have been complaining about all the parts that will fail, but have never touched a variable speed pump.

I personally feel that variable speed is going to cost less because the motor quality is far superior to the current 2 speed offerings. 5 years ago I would say different, but the crap that is coming out now is appalling.

"probably $400 more then a two speed"

Not that much for the VS, but a VF is. What does a motor cost to replace when the horribly made a.o.smith product fails?

The VF pump does have a vacuum shutoff system which 2 speeds do not, its pending approval to meed the current IRC standards, which I hope it does. If the VF pump meets these standards than variable vs 2 speed is a no brainer.

Quote
"I hope they donÂt mandate SVRSÂs! There are flow and pressure issues to deal with"

You show you have no clue. The pump is already speced and ready to comply with SVRS. It's on board and a quick touch of a few buttons will enable it. They can't say it does yet as they are in line for approval and not in the front of that line. It's pretty well known here I don't work for Pentair. You can verify that pretty quick if you wanted to. I sell what works. Unfortunately, most things don't anymore.

I posted on our other message and clearly showed that your I-wave products cost more than a SunTouch. Come up with something cheaper that works and I'll promote that too. Obviously you work for Intermatic and have an agenda. Roaming the board here today to promote the Intermatic. It's the only mechanical clock I install but they missed the boat with the digital. It's not Title 20 compliant with it's defaults. Give me an address so I can mail back by 12 P1353ME's that don't work the way they are supposed to.

For the record, and I'm on your side here....

sqs1202R Two speed motor 280.00 +tax
P1353ME mech 165.00 +tax
Average retail $625.00 +tax +labor What $800 in so cal?

VF $1200 and only about $900 in San Diego County after rebate.

Hmmmm, what's the better deal? That AO Smith sqs1202R will fail inside of 3 years. All you need to do with a VS is make it that far and you come out way ahead with the savings.

I have a buddy here in town that spoke to an Intermatic guy who says he engineered the P1353ME. With my help, he exposed so many issues with this device it was insane. More recently at the Western Pool and Spa Show. They never even considered you may have a salt system that needs to jamb under those load terminals that in turn, would require 4 #12 wires in a space for 2. On top of that, he says he also engineered the Pentair NT. There's an accomplishment. I'm seeing the connection here to his hatred. He's jumped ship to Intermatic too soon and now is fighting a losing battle. Who would have thought we have a savior for the T104R box? All we need now is a guy in tights defending 1.5" copper plumbing....HA HA

Quote: "It appears that "repair guy" knows only one option, "variable speed". He should change his user name to "Pentair guy" because he apparently works for them."

Repair Guy is a very well-respected and long-time member of these forums. His input on a wide range of topics is extremely valuable. Making comments like that isn't lending you any credibility.

Quote: "You indicate you paid an additional $250 for the control, plus another additional $200 for the remote, plus another additional $???? for the variable speed pump, probably $400 more then a two speed."

The base pump my PB offers is the Pentair Intelliflo, so there was no extra costs in the pump. The PB has been around a long time and they deal with the better equipment.

Quote: "You could of bought a low cost remote system for $200 and saved another $250 off the $450 you spent for the remote system."

And I could have saved many thousands by not building a pool in the first place!!!! I also could have saved thousands by going with a lower bidder. But I'd rather spend a little more to make sure I'm getting a quality product. My PB wasn't the cheapest around, but it was worth the extra to know I was getting great equipment, great service and excellent support. Going the cheapest route isn't always the best decision.

Just to clear the air, I am certainly not an employee of Intermatic and I donÂt make it a habit of promoting their, or anyoneÂs product. However, having said that, I will say that every manufacturerÂs product has their place and some products make more sense for a particular job than others. As I posted earlier, every problem requires different solutions and to say VS pumps are the golden solution to all problems is simple unrealistic.

I own a service organization in Florida and we use ALL the products available, but donÂt favor any one product. We donÂt have to comply with CaliforniaÂs Title 20, however, we know itÂs coming our way and again, we are reviewing all the options available to us to comply.

IÂve installed many VS pumps where needed! And as you well know, there are situations where a VS pump is the only solution; however, IÂve also seen VS pumps installed where it was simple overkill for the job and unfortunately the homeowner gets stuck picking up the tab.

IÂm sure anyone of us can shoot holes in the design flaws of all the products available in the market today, some more than others. But, as pool professionals, itÂs our job to recommend the best solution for the situation not just one solution.

QUOTE "I own a service organization in Florida and we use ALL the products available, but donÂt favor any one product. We donÂt have to comply with CaliforniaÂs Title 20, however, we know itÂs coming our way and again, we are reviewing all the options available to us to comply."

Once you look at all options AND do the math, you will see there are few options if the customer has the least amount of money to spend. Work it through. Go to each controller you can think of, add the costs of pumps, relays, automation upgrades that don't have 2 speed capability, and then look at the difference in costs compared to ROI. Variable is the best deal. Now, look at Variable. In the industry names, you have three. A 6 speed Hayward, built on the "not proving itself" TriStar and another box they want you to install on the wall, An 8 speed Jandy, built on nothing proven or a 3050 speed Pentair built on the very reliable, very proven WhisperFlo. You too will come to realize that there is really no comparison but it is the owner who makes the choice. Selling all is doing a disservice for a buck. Selling what works if it's only a few products is doing the customer right. I would challenge anybody here to see where those who advise variable speed on this board are one track minds. We clearly state on a regular basis that this pump is not the only option and best option for all pools. I am totally against the multitasking that owners here seem to want. It's not the intent of the pump even though it works. It's for low flow circ and nothing out there will compare today.

Whats wrong w/ multitasking w/ a controller?

The intermatic controls are a huge step backwards as far as flexibility, and user interfacing. They do however make a great mechanical time clock.

IÂve read through this BLOG and I think I know what uskiman is trying to say, but he just isnÂt saying it well enough.

I myself also do Florida service and the situation we have down here is most of the existing Installations are of the simple nature. 80% of Florida pools are cookie cuter 12K gallon pools with a pump on a timer, a light on a light switch, maybe a heat pump and of course a filter.

If Title 20 does come our way, it would be impossible to justify the cost to a retired person on a fixed income that they need to change their current setup to a VS pump, let alone a 300 dollar control. In fact, itÂs going to be hard enough to justify the minimum requirement, 2spd pump with a simple control. Most would just want a toggle switch for the 2spd pump, however, that will not comply with the code.

When looking at cost only! ItÂs obvious a 2spd pump with the minimum 2spd control is the only option down here and that will even be a tough sell. An ROI approach will not work because retired people donÂt care about payback.

Until the cost of the VS pump comes down to the cost of a 2sp, and there are more cost effective control options, this will always be the case in our market. IÂm sure CA is much different.

"Until the cost of the VS pump comes down to the cost of a 2sp, and there are more cost effective control options, this will always be the case in our market. IÂm sure CA is much different."

The Suntouch can be had for a very reasonable price.

"If Title 20 does come our way, it would be impossible to justify the cost to a retired person on a fixed income that they need to change their current setup to a VS pump, let alone a 300 dollar control"

The reason I don't have a pool in my back yard is because when I can use it I am too busy to, so I cannot justify the expense. A pool is a luxury in any market. It's kind of the same as them complaining that their RV is too expensive to run because of the fuel prices.

"Until the cost of the VS pump comes down to the cost of a 2sp, and there are more cost effective control options, this will always be the case in our market. IÂm sure CA is much different."

Not always everyone should have a product line inclusive of all potential clients budgets, and everyone knows that some people will want cheaper product for one reason or the other, I personally feel that the cost of ownership on the intelli pump products will be less than a 2speed after 4-5 years, and you are getting a better quality product.

"racket" I'm not being mean, but your post makes no sense to me.

What I explained to you was the reality of our market.