I made a start, I'll take pics tomorrow...I had my husband chainsaw through those prickly things..3 of them are GONE!! YAHOO!! Next weekend I'll shoot for taking the three by the garage out and probably putting in either otto luyken laurel or densiforma yew if I can make sure there's enough drainage....luckly I don't have the thick red clay...this house was built on pasture that is nice light brown and very good soil...I'll add in some organic material... I replaced those thorny things with Sweet Box...it'll fill in the space and in spring have a wonderfully fragrant smell right by the front steps...in front of those I planted a few dark liriope...placed a fall display of Cinderella pumpkins and on the side where the other thorny thing was I planted a striped maiden grass that won't grow too large but will add enough contrast so as not to over whelm the corner of the foundation. Years down the road I plan to take out half the hollies and completely rescape everything..but for now-trimming what I have and sprucing it up a bit did wonders....I'm going to be adding the bulbs in a bed alongside the back of my house where there is much more sun... Thanks for your help, and I'll put some pics on there to show some improvements! Tara

I never use any soil based mix in containers and it certainly isn't recommended in such small containers. Soil-less mixes only. You'll find numerous discussions here about the problems with soil and compost in containers. Compacts and drains poorly, retains too much water for such small seedlings and causes root rot. Plus it provides no nutrients. The pale and yellowing color of them indicates both over-watering and lack of nutrients, especially nitrogen and both problems are tied to the fill in your containers. The cotyledons should still be robust and green but they clearly are not which tells you the plants are too wet and hungry. Plus you are using clear cups and roots are negative phototropic (hate light) and there is far too much soil for many of the smallest seedlings. It is sort of like putting a baby in the deep end of the big pool instead of the kiddie pool. :-) They struggle to keep from drowning. Ideally for best odds of survival they would all be transplanted out of that soil into an actual growing mix in amounts proportionate to their size and fed. It just depends on how much work you want to do and how long before they can go outside. Before next year you might want to do some reading over on the Growing from Seed forum here - a good set of FAQs there on all the basics. Dave

Well, it was actually a speaker at the OSWP October meeting who told me he leaves his orchids outside in night temps in the high 30's. He said that as long as it is not below 35, the plants would do fine. They are phal type dendrobiums. So, next year, I will take them in when the temps at night are no lower than 55. I guess when I do, I need to make sure that the inside temp is as close to the outside temp and gradually warm things up. Also, I will have the lights up and running before the plants come in. This was my plan, but our school district decided to go on strike for 5 weeks, so my kids were home from mid-Oct to Mid-Nov and there was no way I could either foresee this or get the lights up with the kids home. Hopefully things will be better with the dendrobiums next year. My cattleyas look good and they were out in 39 degrees, too. I do see sheaths, so I guess they faired better in the cold. Now to see if they actually bloom (which will be the first year for me). I'm not perfect, gang, but I am much better and still willing to learn and listen to all of you- many thanks. I have no problem with oncidiums and phals anymore. They grow, they bloom. Even my big Paph. -- it's always in bloom, one sequential bloom after another. I am so proud, I wanted to take it to the Nov. OSWP meeting. Perhaps easy for all of you, but a big accomplishment for me. Thank you. Liz

In my experience the answer is no, citrus will not grow during the Winter at 55 degrees, although they will survive. You want them to put on any growth, a clear plastic covering may help during Spring and late Fall, will raise the temperature by about 5 degrees during the day. Warmer temperatures are better than sunlight, where you live. The trees are not going to be able to put on any growth anyway, so might as well overwinter. (when the tree is just overwintering, 50-60 degrees are fine, since it's in a semi-dormant state and isn't really growing) It's true citrus in the ground often does better than citrus in pots brought inside during the Winter season but that has more to do with the roots.