What size is the plumbing? 1.5" or 2" diameter?

Is it a vinyl liner or concrete pool? What are the depths?

I will assume it's liner pool with an 8' deep end and a 3.5" shallow end, 2 skimmers and a bottom drain. I will also assume 2" plumbing. That puts your pool at between 40 and 45 thousand gallons. Petty substantial volume.

A 1.5 HP with 2" plumbing should give you about 85 GPM after head losses due to plumbing. At 110V, it'll draw about 12 to 14 amps. At 220 the current draw will be 1/2 of the 120v. The motor on this pump will waste a lot energy to heat. It's the nature of the beast with a single phase type motor. It's also going to need about 9 hrs to get a single turn of the pool's volume. I expect about a 7 year life per motor in my local with this system.

A 2 speed pump will need about half the draw at twice the run time plus a couple hours on low speed and will not push enough water to run a dual salt cell configuration.

Your pool is too big to run on one cell. If they are in series, a configuration that in not recommended by the big three of Hayward, Pentair or Jandy, a two speed may provide the flow needed to satisfy the flow switches. The units would need to be in parallel. They normally need about 25 GPM to satisfy the flow switches. I prefer at least 30 GPM through a cell to allow for increased head loss due to the filter getting dirty. That means 60 GPM for two cells in parallel.

A Pentair VS-3050 or Intelliflow VF set to run at about 1200 RPM to get you to about 60 GPM. It uses a three phase motor. It's connected to a 220v single phase source but converts it internally. This motor is substantially more electrically efficient. I would expect a current draw of about 3 or 4 amps. With the cells, you would run the system for about 12 hours per day.

The use of the Intelliflow VF would also eliminate the pump's timer clock since that is a normal function built in to the VF. Your booster pump will still need one though.

The booster's exhaust port in the pool is probably located midway down a long side of the pool. Pick up either a Polaris 280 or a Legend pool sweep with a couple of 3' hose extensions to allow for the added size of the pool. Expect to pay about 1/2 what a Dolphin, Aquabot, or other similar style pool sweep would cost.

Your filter type is known as a bump filter. I, as a serviceman, hate them. They have a lot of nuts and bolts to be removed to service it. I recommend replacing it with either a 500 lb 30" sand filter or a 60 Sq.Ft. DE filter.

I sincerely doubt the gas regulator is bad unless the heater took a lightning induced voltage spike. You might want to get another opinion. RayPak heaters are generally very reliable. I think I've seen 2 bad regulators in 10 years, both were bad from the factory during the same season. A new heater that size is in the $3000 range. If you are in a shaded area, the pool may not get as warm as soon as you might like or stay as warm as desire for as long as you like.

If you go forward with swapping the pump and filter, adding in the cells and sweep, I'd be willing to bet that the service company would gladly fix whatever is really wrong with the heater for a lot less. Regulators are pretty pricey. A control board isn't much less than a regulator but has still reduced the cost to repair substantially.

When swapping and augmenting your equipment, try to use the same brand of equipment. It'll extend the warranty on the parts to 3 years.

Good Luck.

Scott

They must use damn good regulators in NJ. I average 4 replacements per technician per year. They are Maxtrol's and I sell them for 80-100 dollars depending on the customers attitude. If it is 10 years old I'm not surprised it needs replaced, but you may want to replace your service tech. first.

If you have a working PB-4 then buy a pressure side cleaner. I like the Polaris 280.

I would run that superpump until it dies although that may have to be 24/7 during the swim season.

Lose the bump filter.

Chlorine generators are great, but anyone that says it will save you money is trying to sell you a chlorine generator. Over 10 years the cost are about the same. Do I reccommend one? Yes.

Mike and Scott ---- Thanks very much for the information it will come in handy. As far as answers to your questions, I believe the pool goes to 10' and starts around 3. It was only open a very short amount of time before we had it closed and we were only in it once or twice. I believe it has a vinyl liner. I'm pretty positive it has 2" plumbing. I know it has 2 skimmers, i'm not sure about a bottom drain.

I'll start looking into getting that new three phase pump and the new filter. As for the two cell salt system, is there a brand that I should go with? Or should I just have it match the pump and filter brand?

On the heater, I should have explained, the issue is that there is no regulator. Whenever the gas pluming was installed there was no regulator put into the line. The guy that came out told me there is too much pressure going to the heater and I need a regulator in the gas line just before it goes into the heater.

Since you both are recommending the Polaris 280 i'll look to get one of them. I figured it made sense to use the booster pump and save the money from buying a Dolphin. But the info I was getting from Leslies seems bogus.

Thanks again,

Vince

It's pretty rare to find a 10' depth.

For the salt cells, I like Pentair's and Auto Pilot's. If your deep end is truly 10' deep, you volume as I calculated (roughly) is higher. Auto Pilot has systems that will accommodate your needs, probably with a single cell. This would cost less than 2 Pentairs.

Both have auto reversing polarities to help the keep the calcium deposits that form in hard water at bay. The South West seems to have hard water, as reported by many on this forum.

FYI, the Intelliflo pump is connected to 220 VAC single phase power. The drive does the conversion internally.

Is the heater propane fired? The model suggests otherwise but the gas pressure issue you mentioned suggests a problem that is normally associated with a propane supply. This can happen if the heater was converted in the field. And IF this is the case, the propane supplier will need to install a medium to low pressure supply regulator. not a new heater regulator.

If you were getting persistant and recurring algae last year, check for phosphates in the water, if the pool was otherwise balanced. A positive test greater than 200 ppb will cause this.

If you are not sure how to balance your pool or otherwise unsure of how to care for it, have a pool service come and give you an orientation. It is usually money well spent.

I'll have to wait until I get the cover off to be sure of the size. My gf remembers being told last year that the pool was 48,000 gallons. I looked on the Autopilot website, they have so many different ones. Which one should I be looking at getting? Will my current pump be able to handle the Autopilot?

On the heater, it is connected to the natural gas line in my house. It's connected directly to the incoming gas line outside first. I'm told that the pressure from the gas company is very high and that I need a regulator inline. Does that sound right?

Your current pump should be fine, just don't sink money into it. When it dies, consider an Intelliflow.

The gas line is connected before the meter? Like free gas? Then you would have excessive pressure. It's on the wrong side of the meter then.

If it's after the meter, then the pressure is already where it needs to be or you would have problems with your other gas fired appliances like the stove, oven, and heating system. If it's undersized, then you won't get enough gas to run the appliances and heater. You would need a larger meter. That comes from your utility company.

Do you know what a regulator looks like? Is the one that is supposed to be inside the heater there?

Call AutoPilot directly for the correct generator you need.

On the heater I had called a mechanical contractor that I found on Raypak's website. What he told me was that the gas line is run from outside my house just after the meter from the gas company. He said it runs directly to the heater. He said there should be a regulator in the line just before where the gas line goes into the heater. He said whoever installed the heater did not put a regulator on and there is way too much pressure going into the heater which is probably why it blew the controller board. There is a regulator inside my house beofree the gas gets split into the other gas appliances in my house. So I guess the question is did this guy know what he was talking about or is there a regulator in the heater and this guy had no clue?

There should be a regulator in the heater. This regulator's job is to turn on the gas to the burners. If the gas pressure from your house supply is too high, I would expect the gas company would lower the pressure at the meter. If your furnace or boiler is working fine and your oven is working and your gas clothes dry is working, I doubt the pressure at the heater is too high. They all have similarly working regulators. They would likely have problems if the gas pressure was too high.

I doubt the controller board died due to high pressure.

You might want to contact RayPak again, point them to this discussion and see what they say. I doubt they would send the same guy.

Hey mikethepoolguy, your thoughts are appreciated too.

Scott

I was wrong about the plumbing. I went out and looked today and it's 1 1/2". Does that change anything? Pump, Salt generator, filter recommendations? Or is everything basically the same?

Hmm, 48K Gal pool and 1.5" plumbing? The original owner and PB were short sighted.

Will the equipment work? Yes

I'm guestimating your flow at about 65 to 70 GPM. If your pool really is 48000 gallon, in order to get the recommended 1 turn per day, you will need to run your pump 11.4 hrs a day at 70 GPM, longer if it's only 65 GPM and longer still if the air temps get up in the 90s.

Super Pumps typically last 5 to 10 years in my area. 7 is typical.

When the time comes to replace your pump, strongly consider the Intelliflow. It's designed to last a lot longer and will save you money in electric usage and service. Time till it's savings are greate than the cost difference between Intelliflo and single speed and dual speed pump will vary given inflation, cost per kiliwatt hour etc... but it will save money several time over over the course of it's life.

Scott, could you explain how you calculate the GPM and run hours. I'd like to know so I can be educated. I found some info on line, but i'm confused when you mix in the plumbing and length of plumbing. I read that with 1 1/2" pipe you can only have a max of 44 GPM. So I get confused how I can have 65-70GPM running thru the pipe? And then how do you calculate how much GPM my 1.5HP Superpump is putting out?

Maybe I was generous. At 10 FPS, inch and a half pipe will do between 60 and 65 GPM. Todays recommended maximum FPS is 10 on the return and 8 on the suction. These numbers are based on safety and friction loss.You can push higher volumes of water through but your friction loss will increase very quickly. A 1.5 HP Super Pump will exceed these velocities.

If I was generous, the reduced flow numbers would dictate an even longer run time for his pump, increase his power consumption, shorten his motor life, etc... only adds to the benefit of having the high efficiency motor of an Intelliflo with it's ability to be dialed down to both reduce power consumption and reduce friction loss by running slower.

What does FPS stand for? Sorry I'm a novice. What i'm leaning towards at this point in time is spending the money on the Autopilto or Pentair salt system. Also replacing my filter. I've researched them and came across this Pentair Quad filter that claims it's easy to use like a cratridge yet cleans like a DE. What do you think of this? Also spending the money on the Polaris 280 or the Legend. So I just want to make sure my current pump with the GPM's that you believe i'm getting are going to handle this new equipment? Also is there a way to test the GPM to see what i'm actually getting?

FPS is feet per second

FPS is particularly important on suction ports. Too much and it's an entrapment concern.

Higher FPS also reduces efficiencies by increasing friction losses and loads on the pump motor. The harder it works, the more current it'll draw. On single speed and dual speed pumps, this loss becomes heat. Heat kills motor life and can actually hurt someone. If you've ever touched a pump motor that's been running several hours, you find it to be very hot.

Do you think adding the salt gen and getting a new filter like that Pentair Quad would be ok with the current pump? I'll wait for that thing to die or until I have an extra $1k to get that new one.

Yep, you'll just continue to use power as you had. Maybe a little less because the new filter will create less resistance.

A filter question. For the month we had the pool open last season that filter we have constantly needed backwashing. I'd notice about every other day there was no water movement and would see the pressure was up on the filter. I was told the filter needed to be rebuilt so I had that done. Even after that it wasn't much better. Is this just normal with the type DE filter I had or was it an undersized filter, a water pressure issue, or something else? I want to make sure I don't make the wrong decision when buying a new filter and have the same problem.

Undersized, probably never been soaked over the years high maintenance requirement pain in ... to work on aggravation causing 6 million other derogatory adjective adverb combination creation. How it became "popular" back then is still a mystery.

Quad DE is a great filter. Get the 80 or the 100. The delta in dollars is small but the 100 will go longer between cleanings.

No multiport or backwash valve. Just unbolt the band clamp, open the drain plug and lift the lid. Hose off the cartridges and close it back up. Takes abut 15 minutes total, every other month or after a 10 PSI rise in tank pressure.

Cool, looks like i'm going to go that route, i'll get the Quad DE 100 and one of the Autopilots. You think i'm safe with my current pump for both of these?

Also on the cleaners, if pricing was not an issue are the dolphin types that much better then a polaris 280? Guy at the local Leslies swears they are. ??

They're good for a while but the bags aren't cheap and the cord always gets tangled into a rats nest. The 280 with a couple hose extensions is less, the bags are less and has swivels in the hose to keep it from getting tangled. The guy at Leslies gets commission. I just like to help.

Your setup is safe.