Hopefully this is just a phase

16 years ago

but boy do I have my hands full!

My 12 y/o golden has gone from acting like an old man to behaving like a spoiled pup. He hasn't played with toys in a very long time and used to never pull when walking. Now, if I'm not careful, he'd pull me off the front porch and drag me down the street, my face planted in the pavement. He has decided his favorite toy is Charlie's rope bone and will hold it in his mouth and growl, while prancing and jumping around. No way is he going to let either of the other dogs have it even though he really doesn't want it, he just doesn't want them to have it. He goes ballistic if we speak or pet one of the other dogs, pushing his way into the middle to take the attention for himself. His behavior has really changed recently but I haven't discouraged him growling at the pups.

6 month old Quincy, also a Golden, is going through the equivalent of the terrible two's possibly? I really don't have any complaints about him that isn't related to raising a pup, other than his barking. This is driving me insane. LOL. I have the house divided with baby gates. Was a big help when he was going through the chewing stage, and helps keep the younger 2 from romping too much, or to give me 1 on 1 time with each of them. But, if I'm in one room and Quincy in the other, he'll start barking.. a horrible high pitched bark that can nearly burst an ear drum. He can see me, is within a couple feet of me, but doesn't like the separation of the gate. As much as I hate the spray bottle thing, I have tried using it. Quincy will go berserk, barking and snapping at the bottle. If I persist, he'll eventually back off and stop. The spray bottle makes me feel guilty and Quincy winds up with a very wet face. Maybe I'm using this wrong? Anyway, this type of discipline makes me uncomfortable. I would continue, though, if I thought it would correct the barking.

Now, there's Charlie, 9 months old. She listens very well, has stopped digging up the yard, doesn't bark or chew up things and I feel is grown up enough now to not be crated over night. Once we go to bed I don't believe she moves until either DH or I get up. I have 2 complaints about her, one of which really isn't anything to complain about. First, she's a whiner. When separated from me, she doesn't bark like Quincy does, she whines. It's kinda funny sometimes because she'll sit with her nose smushed up against the gate and whine. Looks funny but she does it -all the time-! My other complaint is that she plays waaaaaay too rough with Quincy. He out-weighs her by 5 pounds now, but when they're running and playing, she'll roll him, hold him down and sometimes charge him head-on. I'm afraid someone, probably Quincy, is going to get hurt. Other than those things, I'm really proud of Charlie. She's one good dog. :)

What I would really like suggestions on is help with Quincy's barking. It just has to stop. I've always prided myself in the fact that except for seeing me walk Frazier, my neighbors would never have known that I had a dog. Frazier seldom ever barked, except when someone knocked at the door. Now, I have added 2 and have barking dogs. Quincy barks at birds flying over, barks to come back in, barks just for the joy of barking, I think. And I'm forever out in the back yard yelling at the younger two to settle down. I can just see the eye-rolling and hear the grumbling. I just want to be a good neighbor and want to keep my hearing from being damaged. :)

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Comments (12)

quirkyquercus
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
When quincy barks and it gets on your nerves, what do you say or do?

Anything that you can think of change around the time the behavior changed? Diet, someone moving out of the house etc?
mwoods
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
If your Golden's behavior has really changed from previously,you might consider having him checked over by your vet. Ours died 2 years ago from cancer,which is so prevalent in the breed now,and his personality underwent a small change..not as dramatic as what you are describing though. Obviously something is going on.
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Mc_hudd, Your dog is never going to get house trained unless you bite the bullet and use the crate. It seems to me that you have a "negative" towards crates, lots of people do. That said, you need to make it a "positive". Also think of the crate as a temporary training tool that is going to help you and your dog with this and other behavior issues. You really do need to completely start all over if you are going to be successful with your dog. He should have been well on his way with this by now and you are starting to miss the prime time of his life for potty training. You really need to commit yourself to a 9 month process, or this problem will lead to others and you will have a bigger mess on your hands. Following is a step by step system that I use for training dogs, it's worked for lots of my clients and me. *Potty training. Dont expect a "quick fix". To be successful with this and other training issues, you really need to crate train. 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moonie_57 (8 NC)
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
mwoods - our first Golden died due to cancer. When pondering getting a new pup, we almost decided against another GR because of the prevalency of cancer within the breed. However, I believe the changes in Frazier is due to the addition of the 2 younger pups. It's not a bad thing, just more work. :)

Quirky - Quincy barks for different reasons so my reactions are different. If he's outside barking at birds, I can get his attention and he'll stop. At least stop for the time being. If, however, he's barking because he wants to come on my side of the gate, he's looking for attention. I tell him to shush and go lie down. It works for the other 2 if they're whining or begging to get into the same room with me, but not with Quincy. If I get his attention by whispering and making him listen, he'll stop barking until he again loses my attention. When he persists with the barking, I take him by the collar and make him go to bed for awhile. Usually he'll pout and not bark while in bed, but if he does bark, I ignore him.

I'm really not doing well with getting a handle on the barking thing. The only change in routine is the fact I just quit my job at the beginning of the week, but the barking has been going on far longer than that.
mazer415
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You dont say how much running or walking these dogs get. I also dont understand why the dogs are seperated, dogs are highly social animals and can learn from each other while interacting. I suspect your dogs are trying to communicate with you. It would be better for you to say how much the dogs are getting out and going for a good long walk everyday, or are they cooped up inside all day....more info please. What is the daily routine of the dogs?
moonie_57 (8 NC)
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
mazer- I have a very large backyard so the dogs get plenty of running and playing time. Both together and separate, and with me and without me. There are many reasons they are separated, but I did not mean to make it sound as if they are kept separated. Sometimes they are separated from each other, sometimes they are separated from the human family members. They will be separated from Frazier because he's old and sometimes just does not feel like being bothered by them. Other times they are separated from each other because of rough play in the house or because it's easier to clean ears or clip nails. Also, if the cats are in the kitchen eating and the dogs are in the livingroom, then they have to stay there even if I have to go into the kitchen. This is where part of the problem comes in with Quincy. He hates when I leave the room and the barking begins. He really has to get over this. I have a daughter, grandchildren and other pets. He can't be the center of attention 24/7. I don't mind if he expresses his dissatisfaction, but the barking has to stop... especially indoors.

Here is an example of this morning's barking episodes. Quincy and Charlie are in the kitchen with me. Frazier in the livingroom with DH. Frazier is always stiff in the mornings and the pups are playful so I keep them separated for that reason. I pass through the livingroom to go wake up DD. This sets Quincy off with the barking. DH shushes Quincy, but as soon as he loses DH's attention he starts barking again. It only takes me a minute before I'm back in the kitchen, so Quincy's fine at that time. Charlie just stands beside Quincy waiting for me to get back. I'm in the laundry room getting ready to wash clothes. I step outside to shake the feathers out of the bird cage cover. Quincy barks. I'm on the steps right outside the door. Quincy can see me. Takes all of 20 seconds and he's already barking, Charlie just watching me through the door. I come back inside, he's fine. By that time Frazier is on the move so all of us go outside. Time to turn off the heat in the greenhouse. Frazier goes his way, the 2 pups are running and playing. I go in the greenhouse and immediately Quincy is barking to get in. Took me all of 30 seconds. A few minutes later Fraz and I go back in the house, the pups are playing. I ask if they're ready to come in but they continue to play. Charlie gets her fill of playtime and scratches on the door. I let them both in. Charlie and Frazier go in the livingroom and lie down. Quincy isn't finished playing yet and Frazier doesn't want to be bothered. I take Quincy back in the kitchen/laundry room/bedroom area with me. He's fine until I have to go to the bathroom. Generally I don't shut the door (who needs privacy) but I was spraying down the shower. He barks, I shush, he barks, I shush. Took me less than a minute. I have to go into the livingroom now, so I switch dogs... Frazier to the kitchen, Quincy now to the livingroom with Charlie. I'm cleaning house so moving back and forth through the rooms. Charlie decides she wants in the kitchen, so away she goes. Quincy wants to follow so he goes too. Frazier doesn't want in the kitchen with the 2 romping pups, so back in the livingroom with me. After a minute or two, Quincy's barking because we're separated.

It's revolving dogs all day and Quincy wants to be where ever it is he wants to be and is going to bark until he gets his way. Well, you get the picture. :)
sammy zone 7 Tulsa
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Do you have two goldens or three? Frasier is the 12 year old with a personality change? I would give the older dog a lot of special attention, and not walk him with the younger dogs. I would definitely put a prong collar on him because you don't want his energy to be in the pulling, but in the walking.

If Frasier's personality change has made him hold on to toys, and act out in a different way, I would be careful with him around the other dogs. Does he like to be around the other dogs?

You sure do have your hands full. The barking would bother me, but I cannot tell you what to do about it. It sounds to me like you have a very happy home. I hope you get some good suggestions.

Sammy
moonie_57 (8 NC)
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Sammy - I have 2 goldens and a lab/shephard mix. What I was trying to say regarding Frazier's change in behavior was that the pups have brought new life into him. He doesn't need a prong collar, I just have to remember that some days when we go out for a walk, I can't hold the leash in my teeth or tucked under my arm while I'm doing something else with my hands. :)

And yeah, I'm waiting for those good suggestions. So, where is everyone that always has all the good ideas?
gabro14
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
When my dog was a puppy and did things that she wasn't supposed to do, I took a choker chain and threw it onto the floor near where she was standing. Of course I was VERY careful not to hit her with it! But the loud noise and the sudden throw gave her a good scare, and she eventually would stop doing the wrong behavior even if I just picked up the chain collar and bounced it loudly in my hand as a warning. Also, the key is to say "NO" in a deep and assertive voice WHILE you are using the chain (or spraying water, or whatever works for you). If you don't have a choker chain, you can also try putting a bunch of pennies in a can and give it a hard shake while saying "NO". Eventually, you can take away the object you are using and just the "NO" should be enough, as long as you have proved that you are the "alpha dog".

Many people use things that could be very helpful in training a dog (like the spray bottle you are using), but if you are not using it correctly and assertively, along with saying "NO", then the dog will not take you seriously.

Hope that helps,
Gabi
quirkyquercus
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Although I can't really tell because I haven't seen you do it, I'm thinking that it might be better if you either just ignore the barking and say nothing, don't look at the dog or anything, OR abruptly interrupt the barking and then go back to ignoring.

Then be sure to reward for being quiet and doing what you want him to do and also be sure to pay attention to him only when he's being quiet. My thinking here is that even that brief interaction you have with him is something that he enjoys. He may not understand that you don't want him to do it but instead "I bark then she comes over and whispers in my ear and tucks me into bed".

Again, I could be wrong. It's just that I get a kick of it when we'll walk by this one yard where these people have a couple of yappy cockers and they bark and bark and the owners are like "oh now hush up... shh now, don't bark or you won't get your special little treat..." and this talking just continues as long as the barking does. They are paying more attention to the dogs when they are barking and the dogs don't speak english, they just think they are supposed to bark because it gets the humans to use baby talk with us yay!
gabro14
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Good point QQ - I completely forgot to mention the positive reinforcement aspect. Definitely ignore him if he doesn't stop barking after the correction that I mentioned above (but hopefully he'll stop barking if you do it correctly - it's not easy to do at first, but just convince yourself that you are the alpha dog and be tough!). And as QQ said, reward him AS SOON AS he stops barking. Goldens are so smart...he should learn pretty quickly that barking is not acceptable and will get him nowhere.

Remember, it's not about having the right "tool"...it's about knowing how to use the "tool".

Good luck :)

Gabi
moonie_57 (8 NC)
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Quirky - I think that you're right about me shushing him and giving him the attention that he's seeking so I am trying some different options. There is no ignoring, as my ear drums can't take it. LOL. What I have been trying today is pretending to ignore him, and slowly easing my way into where he is or else letting him in where I'm at... as if it's my idea and not a reaction to his barking. And I am rewarding his quiet behavior, too. I'll keep working on that for a time and see if I get anyway, even though it actually doesn't make much sense to me. Sheesh!

Gabi - darn it! I knew someone would bring up the "coin in can" thing or any kind of startling approach, so I should have mentioned that wouldn't work. It would probably upset Charlie as she doesn't like loud noises like that. I don't think Frazier would appreciate it either. They are often all 3 side by side when Quincy begins his barking. And I don't think the spray bottle is having much of an impact, either. Got any other ideas? :)
rosegarden3
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I am sorry I don't have any ideas for you. I remember when you got Quincy, and Charlie was a house guest, then a member of the family. They are both very cute, that Charlie just stole my heart. Do you have any updated pictures?

Hopefully this is just a phase

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