Sweethome3d is a piece of software I'm currently looking at. I'm not yet sure it will do what you want, but I've seen layouts and renderings people have done with it and was very impressed. There's a bit of a learning curve, and I haven't yet set aside a block of time to read the documentation and play with it. I did see some youtube video tutorials, and maybe that will be enough to get you going. I've signed up for their message board and might try and help make models for them (cabinets mostly) to make it easier for new users to slap a kitchen together. If I could get it to make price lists for me, I'd ditch the software I'm currently using (see my post this morning about 2020 for the shenanigans I've got to go through) The software is here: Here is a link that might be useful: Sweethome3d Sofware

Marti, I think that answers your question about the dining room project, honey. My crowbar wielding days are over I'm afraid, because my right shoulder is objecting to any stress or pressure I put on it. I'm thinking that like my brother I may have torn the muscles loose from the bone. He is post op and in PT on that one. But I wanted to also comment on the Virtual Design Planner. It is only for kitchens and baths and laundries. I spent about two hours last night trying to floor plan my new kitchen which is an irregular shape. I am refreshed this morning and might tackle it from scratch this time. I had the same problem with the IKEA planner, same sort of software, but it works with other rooms. My kitchen now is a plain rectangle. But the back porch, which will be added to it, is offset at one exterior wall by one foot, and at the opposite it, it extends about 3 feet further than the kitchen wall. I think that in my sleep I figured out how to fool the planner into doing what I want. I can put in an obstacle wall to create that indent, and it will think the space is not supposed to be furnished. And I wanted a 42 inch high bar perpendicular to my stove wall, but it does not let me put the wall cabs on the floor to use that way. I tried the island, but it was on wheels and it could not be resized. I also have a stub wall which will remain because it contains the inside breaker panels. That creates the need for a corner cabinet, with another one forming an "L" between the sink and the permanent fridge location. If I can leave the old base cabs where they are now and just remove the wall cabs, I'd be willing to do that. It provides a good surface to set things on when I open the fridge. It is like a short peninsular. I will keep my stainless top rolling cart beside the back door. It is so useful and not so wide that it gets in the way. It is long, however. My stainless top white wood buffet which is now in the kitchen will migrate to the dining room, where it will continue to be our liquor cabinet...even though we are not stocking much of that, it would look good there next to the stools for the bar. And of course, on the opposite wall which has the south facing windows, will be the window seat/storage/dining table bookended by the floor/ceiling tall cabs serving as pantries. Of course there will be file storage space under the window seat. Oh but I am running on. So sorry. As if I did not have chores I need to do that are more pressing. I don't have time to learn this software, or to think about the kitchen now, when I'm knee deep in alligators!!!!

Thanks, Cyn. I'll try that. I have a couple days left on my trial. Re Google Sketchup: I've just begun using it. There are some appliances and such like available. You can also pull them out of other kitchens people have uploaded. Not 100% conventient but not dire either. Also, it's really easy to make something that's pretty much box shaped. Here's a picture of my first model, of the 30" Sharp Microwave Drawer. First I saved the image from the web and cropped it to just the drawer using PaintShopPro (any image software will work). Then I drew a box the right size in sketchup, using lines and the Entity Info tool to get the size right. I'm still learning and I accidentally cut the back open, but that doesn't really matter. Last step, import the picture as a texture and fit it to the face of the box. It doesn't have the slight protrusion of the handle, but then even though I'm doing this to scale, it's not plan perfect, so it doesn't matter. The strengths of this program, once one really absorbs how to make boxes, make up for it. [IMG]http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l134/rummylands/30inchSharpMicroDrawerMODEL.jpg[/IMG] Does anyone know if you can make operable hinges? :D

sasharovnyak: You have to estimate for waste with tile. This could be affected by the pattern chosen to lay it. I do tile repair and the folks who didn't keep or plan for extra are very sorry. Even if you find the same tile years later, it isn't the same run. You want a few left over at completion.