Hi, momtothree...when I read what was going on in another thread, I started looking. Here's the new website...almost exactly like their other website and literature they give with bid packages...same pics, testimonials, etc. as when they built under CastleRock. I can no longer pull up the original CastleRock Pools website.

I don't know where we stand "warranty"-wise with CastleRock themselves, but have warranties with the individual equipment/finish companies. I feel like we got really lucky with our build, which we documented online, and got a completed pool before things apparently went south. Had no way of knowing this was happening when I recommended them earlier, and I hope people left with paid-for, unfinished pools have some recourse. I'm grateful for the "heads up" on this situation, and hope that potential customers can be more informed before they make a choice of PB.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ft. Bend Custom Pools, formerly CastleRock Pools

If you have a warranty issue on your equiptment you can contact the manufacturer. If you are still looking for a pool builder do not go with them. I am finishing 2 of their pools in Richmond right now. And I have worked with a few of their subs to release liens on other pools. Renaming or reorganizing whatever they want to call it. Rarely have I seen a company recover from this type of downfall.

Good Luck,

David

fighting irish- Do you mind telling me what company you're with? Or, you can contact me at the e-mail below. We live in El Campo and are having a hard time finding pool builders for our area.

shellyj125@sbcglobal.net

It's crap like this that makes me SICK of our elected representatives in Austin.
The owners of a near bankrupted company fail in their obligation to do right by their buyer and their former service providers. When they collect the coin, don't finish or pay the men who do the work, and then run and hide they fall into my DIRTBAG category.
When they hustle up to take that same money and waste no time in starting a new pool construction company they fall into my WORTHLESS PHUCKING DIRTBAGS (WFD"s) category.
The previous buyers usually do nothing to hold them accountable, and end up paying more to another company to finish the pool than they were contracted for. They usually hold a bitterness against the industry because of this, and who could really blame them.

These WFD's are protected by Civil Court legislation and thanks to our administration on the hill in Austin they can immediately regroup, get back into the pool construction game under a new name, and go right back out to compete against the men who've worked through the hurt to keep their same business name and do right by the customers.
WE NEED LICENSED POOL CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTORS IN TEXAS, so when you bankrupt a business you don't get to regroup and go back into the game under a new name with the same owners.

Note to all readers, this is a fact.
I (my company) finished 10 uncompleted pools last year behind company's who went out of business. 6 of those pools were behind business owners that were on their 2nd or 3rd business name.
I met a man to try and close a Meet-Comp pool behind my designer on a Monday morning in October. He gave me the written bid of the builder, it was over 5000 less than my bid. He asked if I could meet it and I replied "No, as you asked I gave you my best price and I'm certain that the better long term area builders are as high as my price or even more" The buyer was like he's been building out here for over 7 years, and I said no he hasn't, this company is a year and a half old. I didn't tell him that I had finished 3 pools behind his potential builder in 2006, he reappeared in mid 08 and got back in the game, I lost the pool on price.
The following day I went to run a finish up sales lead, I asked the lady of the house "How long have you looked at this gunite shell?" "Since July of 06" she replied "Don't you remember meeting me at my girlfriend ***'s house." I remembered the buyer and then remembered her telling me her circumstances. It was the same man I lost yesterday's pool to under his old company name.
Exactly what I had told her would happen, happened. Due to the home improvement note as a 2nd on their home they couldn't get additional financing. It took several years and a little assistance from a family member to gather the funds necessary to finish the pool.

I'm not trying to write you guys a book here but am trying to emphasize
This is the second largest purchase you make in a lifetime 2nd only to your home and it goes hand in hand with your home. Research your potential pool builder very well.
There are some VERY GOOD BUSINESSMEN I compete with, we've been business and sometimes personal friends for decades and there are also some WFD's that we compete against. They are very slick operators and will give the illusion of being a long timers like us. They aren't here for the long haul, just the quick TAKE.

See ya,
Kelly

Here, Here Kelly,

I like the fact that you can state these facts by being blunt. Yet I don't think anyone takes offence to your passion. As a matter of fact I enjoy your passion. I have run into this more than ever over the past year and a half and I have to say this is one of the few times that I have agreed to finish up the pools. I am not getting my standard $$$$ for the finish of these projects but I could not stand to see these people get the shaft after all they went through to find a builder. It pains me to no end to see this happening in this (unregulated) industry. I take pride in what I do and I see you do as well. This is why I have finally agreed to finish some of these pools. Not for the money, but as to not let these customers left with a bad taste in their mouth about this industry. The mistake that both of these customers made was to pay draws before the work was completed or in this case before the scheduled draw. Both of these pools had paid 95% prior to the decking being installed. So for most of you out there thinking about building a pool. Pay attention to the draw schedule. I am not sure how you do it Kelly but I personally take 30% at completion of dig, 30% at completion of gunite. 30% at completion of deck 5% at completion of plaster and 5% at completion of pool. They Key wording for me here is COMPLETION. Watch out for the guys who want 90% after gunite. And watch out for the ones needing the draw ahead of the agreed schedule this is a sign they need your money to finish another project. If they are so far ahead of you in the draw schedule it is just to easy for them to walk away.

Again JMO,

David

Contributing to this problem is the fact that the cost of pursuing these WFD's keeps suppliers, subs, and owners from doing so. They aren't forced into backruptcy and go judgement free with a clean record.

Litigation is a long and expensive process. Its sound reasoning to cut your losses rather than spend more capital chasing empty pockets.

You would think that someone would eventually go "Huskyridor" on their *ss in a parking lot somewhere. I know I would be tempted...and I bet they would think twice before ripping off another customer.

Big toast to Kelly and David, and the other PB's who post here and contribute their time and advice. It's most kindly welcomed and appreciated. Kelly, you expressed my anger/frustration for me...thank you so much for guys in the business here who are honest and have scruples and a conscience. It will come back to you manyfold.

Trust me, thanks to message board like this one, people do begin to see what's going on, even if it's too late for some. Kelly...David, bless you for helping the customers who were left holding the bag...money is so much harder to come by at this point, and to lose that and not get the pool you dreamed about...breaks my heart, too. WFD indeed. I'm mightily p*ssed over how Texas lets this kind of thing happen. If the politicians support this kind of rip-off mentality...let's vote 'em out. The con-artist contractors have had a long run. Time to wake up.

It happens here in Ga. as well. The sad thing is that if you call them out in a client meeting then you are the bad guy. In this economy I have been losing left and right to the "bottom feeder". I can't make a client understand that buying a pool is nothing like buying a car or a home. You test drive a car. Can't test drive my pool. When you buy a Chevrolet you buy from a dealer that gets his cars from the same factory as every other dealer. Just because 2 pool companies have similar designs when you look at the plans on paper doesn't mean that you are going to get the same quality, equipment, or service from both. You buy a home after walking through it. I can show you other pools I have built but I can't show you the one that is in your backyard until it's finished. I lost one back in December to a company that was $13k lower than me on a $60k project. The HO's final comments to me was "I know that he has had problems with the BBB in the past but that is a chance I am willing to take for $13k. That is not being a "frugal" comsumer, that is playing Russian roulette.

People!!
The lowest price is seldom the best "deal". It is often times a product that is stripped to the bare bones just to get you to sign a contract and then they will addendum your backside off until you are the same or higher than the quality builder if they finish the pool at all.

When there is a big deficit between a competitor and I ,often times I will ask to see their proposal. Sometimes they will let me and sometimes they will say that they feel it is unethical. What is so unethical about wanting to give your client a comprehensive, "apples to apples" bid. I don't care if my competitor sees my proposal. I have nothing to hide and who could disagree that I am higher because I have 3 pumps to his 1. Now the question becomes "why does he think that he can run a pool, cleaner, spa, and water feature with one pump"? There has been times (rarely) in the past that once I look at a competitors bid he was offering the same as me at a lower price. In that case I bow out with a smile and let the HO make their choice.

David,
I don't know you or how long you've been in the industry but I can tell you a little about myself.
What started off as an after lunch co-op job in High School at 16 turned into a between semesters job in College. I came out into the real world and could make more money plumbing and wiring a swimming pool over a weekend than I could with my fulltime job as an outside sales marketing rep.
I went self-employed 26 years ago as a mechanical contractor. 14 years later I started Atlantis Pools.
At 50 I've given everything to the business and to supporting the Industry. I've seen the best of the best business times between 1994 and 2008 with a little slow down from 911 when I went from 98 new pools in 2001 to 2002 where I dropped to 47.
Right now the market offers the same thing as 87 to 89 did where I could barely sell my craftsmanship to pool builders at a tick over my cost. Many Mexican tradesmen business owners really began to blossom in this time frame by utilizing low overhead labor and smart business plans. I never held this against them. They worked hard for their money and it was less than I was willing to do equal work for.
This is no joke, I LOVE the trade almost as much as I love my wife and children. EVERYTHING we enjoy is due to pool construction.
It pisses me off to no end when this kind of stuff happens because I've put my same frustrations on company letterhead for a very long time to our existing and newly elected representatives only to get a form letter back with a rubber stamp signature.
Suffering through the hurt is what makes you and your organization stronger afterwords.
I've laid off none of my hands and have cut no wages since Hurricane Ike, these men and women are my backbone and are equally family, just as are my customer base. I build a lot of pools on simply referrals and some occasional units from interacting in the pool forums. I call things EXACTLY as I , and I alone, see them.
The membership would find it shocking to know just how few men have stayed under the same business names for such a long time. But there are many, we just never hear about them.
For the record, I collect 70% at gunite completion, 25% at deck completion, and 5% at completion.
If my passion for a good industry comes off aggressive, I APOLOGIZE. It's all I've ever had, and at my age all I'll ever enjoy.
The ease of resurrection of a failed company in my industry upsets me because I know for fact, that the young lady at Great Clips who cuts my hair has a Barber's license and can be held accountable for her actions, but a company owner who competes with me for MUCH BIGGER rewards can run and hide, and take his ill gotten gains to start a new pool construction company and NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
This, my internet friends, really gets under my skin.

See ya,
Kelly

Please forgive me for posting this here as I had already posted under a different heading. You discussion caught my eye as I think my situation is parallel. I understand that building a swimming pool is stressful, but, our experience with Avalon Pools of Holly Spring Ga. was a nightmare. Once the contract was signed and they had a few big payments in their pockets they could not have cared less about us.
When we phoned to find out if anyone would be showing up as promised, we were yelled at and hung up on by owner Curt Cooper and supervisor Andy. Curts attitude is that once there is water in the pool "it is done". I guess that is why we never had pool school and they did not put salt in our pool or do the promised clean up of our property. We have filed a complaint with the BBB.The worst is that they never payed their stonemason who contacted us for payment, he did a beautiful job and we feel so bad for him, He told us ours is not the only pool that Avalon has not paid him for. Since the build was so difficult we had Curt sign a release of lien. If you are in the Atlanta area do yourself a favor and have someone else build your pool. After reading the posts above I know that we have to take some responsibility. We had never built a pool before and were required to make our deck and plaster payments prior to the work being done. The plaster payment was our final payment, so he had all of our money and still owed us much work. We know better now thanks to this forum. Avalon also had 4 complaints at the BBB. Although the seemed to be resolved that should have been a big RED FLAG. Avalon has a fancy web site just like Castle Rock, that is a powerful tool that can be misleading if you do not keep you eyes wide open.
I have to add here that thanks to Mark Reardon of Endless Summer Pools our pool is great. He came in and saved the day. He has fixed several of our areas of concern and has been available to coach us thru new pool ownership. We only wish he had been our pool builder. If you are in the Atlanta area visit his website at espools.com it may not be a fancy site, but he is one of the really good pool builders who care about their customers.

Wow, Kelly you have definately been around the block.

It is hard for me to put down a full list of my qualifications without including some of my brothers as well. Being as he has been in this business longer than myself.

He (my brother) started cleaning pools back in 1986 working for a local company BRB. After high school he continued to clean pools but started his own company and his own routes. Over the next few years after that he ventured into service and repair side. He eventually sold his cleaning company and went to work for a commercial water management company as a service tec. While in commercial pool repair and water management he started building pools for some of the Execs of the company he worked for. Then for some of their clients and so on. From this is where our company started. I came into the picture in 1995 after going into the army and then to college (computer science degree go figure). Since 1995 we have taken a primarily commercial pool service company and created multiple divisions to serve all aspects of the pool industry. From pool residentual pool cleaning to complete nautatorium construction. Over the years we have both become certified or licenced in different areas of the field. I personally am a licenced plumber, a CPO, CPI, Certified diver, Tec II certified and licenced general contractor. He (my brother) has all the same quailifications except he is not a licenced plumber but a licenced electrician instead. We as a company are a warranty station for Raypak, Pentair, Hayward, and Zodiac(Jandy,Polaris ect.) as well.

We have found the the more pools we build the more we want to be prepared for the time when this industry is regulated here in Texas. Most of our quaifications were needed to serve the commercial side of our company but you can see how beneficial these are to have on the residential side as well.

We are not a high end builder even though we venture into the occasional $500,000 residentual pool. But more of a mid range builder.

I drive by companies everyday that have these signs up (Build this pool $17,995). Has anyone heard of the bait and switch con game. This is it in its purest form. Can they build a pool for $18K, yes but you are going to get the worst equiptment, decking that will fall apart within a few years (if it even lasts that long) because there is not rebar in it but in some cases a chicken wire instead or its only 2" thick(yes I have seen this). I have even seen thinwall piping used instead of schedule 40 (I am busting up a deck right now to replace all the plumbing around a pool because of this). How about 1/2" thick flagstone coping(who the builder said this how all builders do it). This is only the beginning. I could go on and on and on.

I have no problem with anyone coming into this business and starting a (legitimate) company but I am very, very picky when it comes to the quality that I see in the finished product and I will point out poor quality in material or workmanship whenever I see it done by anyone including my own guys(who all know what its like to rip it out and do it again because I didn't like it).

I don't claim to be an expert in anything I mean I think that I just about learn something new everyday in this field. I still take some of my inspiration from other companies builds or designs. Even you Kelly. lol. Love some of your recent designs by the way.

This all being said I take this business very serious. Not only is this my career but this is my entire families bread and butter. If I don't succeed then I have to answer to them.

Sorry for the rambling on,

David

quote" I take this business very serious. Not only is this my career but this is my entire families bread and butter "quote

I agree completely, it just took me 9 paragraphs to express it!!!

The thing is I've finished up 1 to 2, and sometimes 3 to 4 pools annually for a long time, it's to be expected.
It can happen where a man fails, the buyers were usually fairly close except for those who lost out at their gunite draw on the payments -vs- work performed. That was in the past, this year 2 had paid for decks but only had bender board forms with stakes, no drains or rebar, and only plumbing and electrical stubout from beneath with 95% paid.
1 saw a pregunite flash where they paid the gunite draw in full thinking it was gunited. These are very blatant and brazen moves.
OMG!!! I could have so easily been up on some VERY SERIOUS CRIMINAL CHARGES if someone had compromised me and my family in this manner. The moment I found out I couldn't do anything about it, I'd of immediately elected myself Sheriff and handled it Buford Pusser style.
This was another one of the companies that had been around the block before.
IMO, this act alone is criminal and not civil. It's pure intent to deceive and defraud.

I remember the first time I read about you, I think it was before you started posting, I mentioned to the poster that you sound a lot like me and I liked you already over a man who along with his father go way back in the industry locally.

If the builder mentioned in the topic of this thread had deliberately collected the deck draw against the payment terms of the contract, you should hook the 2 up together and have them go talk to the District Attorney about it. There are a few detectives working cases like these in both Harris and Montgomery County right now. I'd bet a Fort Bend detective would love a case like this. The best part for the buyers is that the county will pay all the bills associated with the prosecution.
It appears to me the did exactly what all WFD's do, that is "Waste no time capitalizing the new company with the ill gotten gains of the stolen money."
IMO, it was obvious deception with intent to defraud.

See ya,
Kelly

I have followed this board for some time. Some of the advice on this board led me to choose Castlerock Pools a couple of years ago. I thought I had executed due diligence in my research of the company. I have experienced their poor service since my pool completion in mid 2008. I still have an outstanding repair awaiting completion. I feel for the folks who are out of pocket and with no pool to show for their investment. Today, I noted on the BBB website a press release from Jim Burkhart that contains an alternate email address.

From: jimb [mailto:jimb@consolidated.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:27 PM
Subject: CASTLEROCK POOLS & SPAS LLC

PRESS RELEASE:
CastleRock Pools has pulled back to reorganize it's ownership. No new pools will be offered for sale until the reorganization is complete.

James P. Burkhart
President & General Manager, CastleRock Pools & Spas LLC

Seems to be that prior (last 3 months) threadlists providing details on CastleRock / Ft. Bend Custom Pools abandonement of homeowners and unpaid bills to vendors have been mysteriously deleted. Interesting.
Warning, to those considering Ft. Bend Custom Pools- look into BBB issues with Castlerock (the name before Jan 2010) and check out sites such as Consumer Affairs. Also, talk with reputable vendors of gunite, tile, and interior finish to get their thoughts on Burkhart CastleRock/Ft. Bend Custom Pools.
If you are one of the saps on Ft. Bend Custom Pools website as a reference - if you are indeed real people, you should also know what is happening.
I too called a reference of CastleRock prior to pool construction. I'm guessing now he was a personal friend of Burkhart.

My advice is to check references of previous pool buyers for the company and even the suppliers for the pool builder to see if they are paying their bills. Even Homebuilders are not licensed in Texas, so this is not a problem limited to the pool industry. There are good men AND WOMEN in this business that care about what happens to you. Licensing, unfortunately, does not guarantee financial stability. To me, that's the big problem...making sure your pool builder is not taking your money to finish others started before yours or pocketing the money. Look at what the PB is giving you in exchange for your draw payments. Look at the speed of construction. I usually excavate on day 1, steel and install plumbing AND set up all equipment on days 2-3 and shoot gunite on day 3 to 4. Look at what you are getting and ask for multiple references you can check with to be sure you have selected the right builder.

womanowned quote: "...making sure your pool builder is not taking your money to finish others started before yours or pocketing the money..."

An interesting comment was made by my PB on this topic. They used to collect 10% at contract signing and 40% after the tank was shot. They moved to zero down and 50% post tank for the reason alluded to in your post. They found they were using the 10% up front money for other than the build at hand - they claim waiting on the money keeps their eye on the target.

I'm feeling much luckier than some. We finished our pool about a year ago, and we had received 4 bids, one from Castle Rock. We definately considered going with them. Their presentation was pretty slick. Luckily for us, they didn't really listen too carefully to what we wanted, their price was a bit high, and their salesman REALLY annoyed my wife. She couldn't imagine having to deal with him very often. We didn't have any obvious warning signs, just got an uncomfortable vibe. We ended up being VERY happy with the builder we picked, and he's stayed very involved over the last year as little issues have come up. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good...(but not usually).

Well looky here.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070521005156/http://www.castlerockpools.com/index.html

This is the internet archive wayback machine archive of castlerock pools website.

It is VERY similar to the ft bend pools and spas website, even the faq reads the same

http://www.poolhouston.com/

I would stay as far away from these people as possible.

Same thing happened in our area. Our pool was one of the last finished,and they did a great job! But they kept taking peoples money for new pools. When they failed 60 pools were unfinished!with no money left over. Public flogging should be in order