Diabetic kitty questions...

14 years ago

I would love to know if anyone out here has had a similar diabetes challenge? Also, any suggestions?

My beautiful 15 year old male Siamese has been diagnosed with diabetes about six months ago. He is one of four kitties in the household.

Even on insulin 2x per day and a diet change, he is still having once a day vomiting and heavy urinating. Frequently, he misses the box due to urgency/aim issues.

I take him to the vet often to have his BG checked. He's on PZI Insulin. The highest his BG was at first diagnosis was 550. Then, on 2 units of PZI 2x/day, it dropped too low to 70. He was off of injections for 2 months and is now back on 2x/day at 1 unit per day. I'll be taking him in next week for a re-check.

The daily vomiting has not changed. I try to make sure he gets plenty of canned food per day. He also has the special dry diabetic cat food. Eliminating dry food made zero difference in the vomiting. All the cats eat the same food.

My vet is great, but they don't know what is causing the vomiting either. They 'think' it is his pancreas and nothing that can be resolved - just an on-going side-effect of the diabetes.

So, every day, first thing in the morning, I clean up vomit and urine. Every day. Every single day...my poor kitty (and poor me on clean-up duty!). He seems to have vomiting attacks around 3am - 5am every single day.

Anyone else have this issue? If so, did it every improve/change? What did you do to fix it? Help...!

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (9)

Meghane
14 years ago
Did they check his thyroid (T4) level? Diabetes can cause similar problems as hyperthyroidism in cats as far as increased thirst and urination, vomiting, weight loss. It wouldn't be uncommon for a 15 year old cat to be hyperthyroid. Also his diabetes may not be under control. Cats are really tricky with diabetes because their insulin requirements can change drastically and suddenly.

I hope you get answers soon. Poor kitty and poor you having to clean up.
SaintPFLA
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks for the response. Yeah, I had his thyroid treated a year ago with the radio-active iodine treatment. He was fine and doing great, then, bam!...the diabetes issue appeared.

I really want to get to the bottom of this...I'm worried about him. Plus, cleaning up vomit before I've even had a cup of coffee is getting old!... ;-)

Seriously, he's such a good boy that he often tries to throw up in his litter box, but many times doesn't make it.

I don't self-test his BG -- I don't know how, plus, he's very fussy. I can give shots just fine, but not sure how he'd do with giving me a blood sample.
Related Discussions
Question About Kitty Litter
Q
Comments (4)
I would give it to your friend. Most kitty litter is gypsum, which is calcium sulfate. Gypsum can improve certain clay soils which are high in sodium by replacing the sodium with calcium. Such soils are actually rare. You might read over the enclosed link and note especially the following quote: "The only soil that can be benefitted by adding gypsum is a soil high in sodium, called "sodic soil" or "black alkali." These soils normally are found where there is a high water table and poor drainage. Such soils are hard and cloddy when dry and take water very slowly. Few plants can survive in them." Here is a link that might be useful: Gypsum and Sodium
...See More
Calling Squirrelhaven w/Kitty Questions
Q
Comments (10)
Sorry its so long. I was trying to recall what I could for you. That really is such severe weight loss. Very scarey when those things start to happen and no one can figure out whatÂs going on. I have been told that the thyroid tests arenÂt always accurate. There are other tests and ones with different levels of sensitivity that they use to try to get a picture of whatÂs going on, but usually start with the basic thyroid test (canÂt remember, maybe itÂs T3; and T4 is the more sensitive one.) Feline HT is pretty common these days, so I would think they would have been screening appropriately for something going on there. They do test periodically and look for a change and trend in the values. Even though she may be classic, I guess they canÂt actually treat it with the radiation until itÂs clear from the diagnostics whatÂs going on. I think my vet tried meds on kitty #1 to see if it helped, even though the actual tests were showing he was ok after the first treatment. She is a cat specialist though, so may be more comfortable with something like that. ItÂs very frustrating, confusing, and expensive with a lot of these health issues, and with the various medical procedures and options. Doctors don't even agree on things, so you can get conflicting information. Around and around, and often evasive or illusive information from the docs. I often feel like IÂm dealing with a sales person rather than a medical professional, and have definitely become pretty wary about all of it at this point. ItÂs best to read and talk to others as much as you can, to educate yourself. Can you tell me what symptoms your cat was experiencing before the diagnosis and proceedure? The symptoms I remember with my cats are: - very hungry - but losing weight - very thirsty - increased urination - hyper behaviors like more aggressive, playful, or affectionate - increase in energy (crazy cat spurts) - heart rate also increases significantly (sign noted at the vet). The heart murmur on your cat is concerning, as HT can cause heart damage when the disease is uncontrolled. ItÂs a condition thatÂs very hard on the body because everything is revved up. Did you try the medication first with limited results? Yes. Both mixed and limited results. Can you give some detail as to why it failed, and if you know if this is common or not. As far as whether the radiation works or not, IÂve had mixed experiences. My first cat was controlled for a while with meds. Then he became symptomatic again, so the radiation iodine therapy treatment was done. He did well on that for a while, maybe a year?, but then was having trouble again. So, he had another treatment. I donÂt recall whether that helped at all, but he was still having problems. My vet (a cat specialist) figured he had other things going on, which is why the disease didnÂt appear to be under control. He eventually landed in the University hospital ER and, while they thought he had some asthma based on the xrays and negative lung aspiration, it turned out he had cancer and it was riddled throughout his body at that point. My second HT cat, I donÂt recall being terribly sick when he had his treatment done. He was diagnosed, we tried meds for a short while, and then I just decided to cut to the chase and get the radiation therapy done. His kidneys were ok but, right after treatment, it was like his whole body shut down. He had a heart murmur and his kidneys started to fail. I remember the doc saying something about his stomache slowing down too. I think he was even drooling. He was put on synthroid, but it was just downhill for him. So, the treatment was not a good thing in his case. My vet always explained to me that if thereÂs kidney deficiency, they wonÂt do the treatment. Unfortunately, also, by the time a deficiency appears on the labwork, their function is already 75% gone. She also explained that it doesnÂt always work, as I recall. With my third kitty, things were rough. She was very timid and sensitive, and I didnÂt want to put her through a weekÂs stay at the treatment center. She was also not a good pill taker, so we tried a med that gets absorbed through the ear. She wasnÂt doing well on that, as I recall, and her disease was difficult to control. She was scheduled for the radiation, but a week beforehand she became seriously ill and landed in the ER. They were able to stabilize her enough for the treatment and, fortunately, she had no heart damage so was able to get it. That did work for her. About a year later, she seemed off but the labwork wasnÂt pointing to anything. Then she became seriously ill and landed in the ER again. The doctor told me she felt a small mass in her belly. She was there for maybe three days and each day they felt more lumps appear. This time it was lymphoma. I did start the chemo after being told that it had a good success rate and that there werenÂt bad side effects, as with people. She went down so fast though. It must have been some sort of a galloping version of disease. I had to drop her for a few hours for one of her treatments and they called later to say she passed right there in the hospital. That was the last thing in the world I ever wanted for her (or any of my cats). To die in the hospital. And it was very hard to deal with. Lastly, our vet gave us no indication that there is a risk the treatment could fail. Your post is the first I've heard of that, so understandably it's a red flag to me. Can you give some detail as to why it failed, and if you know if this is common or not. I'm very interested in any information you can share also about the process, the healing period or side effects. My vet also always explained that it usually worked but not always. Sometimes they would need a second treatment. Or sometimes other things were going on. I donÂt recall the pre-treatment procedure, other than an initial visit with the radiologist for assessment. The doctor did an ultrasound to check the thyroid and for any incidence of cancer. If he finds cancer, the treatment isnÂt done. For the treatment itself, they stay in the hospital for a week because they are eliminating radioactive waste, which needs to be controlled. The tech called each day with a report. After they come home, youÂre instructed to be careful with their waste by using gloves and washing. I think it was a separate litter box, too, which is supposed to be discarded afterwards. DonÂt recall how long this goes on for but it wasnÂt terribly long. Other than my one cat, where the treatment actually killed him (unusual, I think), there were no side effects, other than stress, that I recall. The financial aspect was pretty shocking the first time I went through all that. And I was very afraid of the treatment, too. I can say that HT is a horrible way to go. And that there is a successful treatment for it. My little girl was a small, frail kitty to begin with and she got so terribly sick when it was uncontrollable. The treatment did stop that disease process and we had a good year until the next thing hit. If sheÂs actually well enough to go through with the treatment, I would do it. Though I donÂt know much about her. She will only continue to decline Â and itÂs not pretty - and she will die from the disease. I do think itÂs a very treatable disease, unlike some others. IÂm so sorry you and your kitty are going through all this, and that it took so long for the disease itself to be diagnosed. It is terribly heartbreaking and often so confusing as to what to do. I always think IÂm going to die when one of my cats gets sick and there usually arenÂt clear answers on what to do. If you are going ahead with the treatment, I hope you're already scheduled, as it sounds like there's no time for delay at this point. Take care, good luck with everything, and please keep us posted. P.S. My vet said that there's research to support that the food canning process may be causing hyperthroid disease. The pop-top cans have a chemical used to seal them, which is suspect. There's also a preservative sprayed on the linings that may be involved.
...See More
Questions about kitties, weaning, etc. posted pics too
Q
Comments (10)
Hey Carla! I'm gonna give you my 2 cents as well. I live with 16 cats( and 11 rescue dogs) in the house. All are spayed or neutered. All are rescued strays. Some are related, most are not. All came to me a different ages. Some were born with me ( took in a pregnant mother), some were young, some were old. There are 6 females and 10 males here. I have 4 that will pee in the house. 1 old male does spray. 1 is just so feral that she freaks out, hides and then pees in my stove burners! 2 are siblings, a male and female, that suffer urinary tract trouble. The female is actually being x-rayed for stones tomorrow. They stopped using the box when it started to hurt. They associated the box with pain and thus avoided it. Needless to say, they both have seen the Vet numberous times for this trouble. I believe the problem is just hereditary with them. Looking into their mother's possible mates, I feel strongly that she bred back to her own father. The entire liter has had problems. I was able to do this because she was a stay that my mother was feeding and she was able to give me this information. The other female that freaks out so bad is also from this mother so we are not surprised that she a little mental, as some of the others from that litter are. I truly believe that all 3 of these cats have litter box issues because of their inbreeding. The 1 male that does spray came to me as an adult male tom cat. He has the big cheek patches from fighting and is FIV ( feline AIDS) possitive. He is now neutered, but does spray. I agree with quasifish that this is a behavior issue due to stress. I think he objects to there being so many cats in the house. There's only one problem with that, all my cats are people's "throw away" cats. Cats that people have dumped or abandoned. Most have problems, physical, behavioral or mental. There is no other home for them. No one wants them but me. So we have to think outside of the box to solve the problems. How I solved this one is I gave them their own room, a spare bedroom. It has a window and we removed the door and put up a screen door so they could see out and get air flow. This works great! They love their room where they only have to deal with each other and it enables me to keep an eye on the 2 with urinary trouble. If they stop using the box, I don't have to wonder who did it. The floor is vinyl for easy cleaning and the walls are painted in a semi-gloss. Everything wipes up with ease. But honesty, since Caleb (the sprayer) was put in the cat room, he hasn't sprayed. I have floor length drapes and have never found a mark on them. Now understand it is a cat room. It has beds everywhere, toys and things to climb and claw on. Everyone seems happy. All eat well and maintain a good weight. Also know that I clean houses for a living. I am a bit fussy about how clean things are kept. So to end this book, I would have to say that in my experience I don't think you have anything to worry about with this kitten. The chances of him being a sprayer are very very remote, or pretty much nonexistant. Just neuter him before 6 months old and there won't be any troubles. As for asking your Vet questions..... I used to work for a Vet and you need to remember he/she is a paid employee! You are paying them to help you and answer your questions. If this Vet or his/her staff is making you feel uncomfortable about asking for information then you need to fire their butts! That is what they are there for. That is what they are being paid for! I don't work at my Vet clinic anymore, but I call them all the time and ask questions! I even call the emergency clinic and ask them questions! If they get offended then they are a lousy clinic! As for sexing. When they are young or a male has been neutered young it is a little tougher to tell, but I will do my best to describe the difference. Pick the kitty up and face him to you, butt first. First find his rectum. It is right below the tail. Just below the rectum is his genital area (where he pees from too). In males there will be a little bit longer distance between the rectum and genital area. This is to allow for the testicals. In females, you will see that the genital are is a little bit closer to the rectum and there will be a very faint line between the rectum and gential area. If you need to, look at you other girl cats to see what I am talking about. I found a good picture, but I don't know how to post it here. So, if you email me directly, I will send it to you. Axelsrose2001@aol.com Hope all of this helps. Susan
...See More
Diabetic kitty is a picky eater - need help!
Q
Comments (4)
You can order the Evangers canned pheasant and the seafood through PetFoodDirect.com. I order when they send me 15% to 22% coupons and the discounts more than cover the freight costs. (Very reasonable freight and they ship FAST.) When you get to the site click on the 'enter now' at the top and you can immediately get a coupon code emailed to you.
...See More
quasifish
14 years ago
I feel for you. My kitty is not diabetic, but she has hyper-t and kidney disease which apparently causes a lot of night time nausea- at least it does for her.

Her vomiting seems to come in spells that last a few weeks at a time. I joke (or I'd cry) that each morning we have the equivalent of an Easter egg hunt and play, "where's the vomit today?" I love her dearly, but get so sick of cleaning up vomit.

Our vet has given some ideas aimed at correcting the things that cause nausea in cats with her problems, but honestly, I don't think they've worked very well. I've been cleaning vomit on a regular basis for about 4 years now and am just resolved to doing it and accepting that it is par for her course. Fortunately when we bought our carpet, we chose the color with aging pets in mind, but still it gets so old!

One thing that comes to mind is to ask if he eats late at night? Our cat doesn't and that lack of contents in the stomach seems to aggravate that morning queasiness of hers.

Sorry you have to deal with this. Best of luck in finding something that works for your kitty.
SaintPFLA
Original Author
14 years ago
Hi Quasifish,

I know exactly what you mean!!!! LOL...at your 'Easter Egg Hunt' reference! Funny! So far, I've managed to not step in it first thing in the morning...hope my luck holds!

I am sorry to hear about your kitty. My 18 yr. old kitty passed away from Hyper-T and kidney disease a year and a half ago. I still miss her. She also had the tummy issues. I don't know if you have tried Pepcid A/C tablets? Consult with your vet first of course, but they did help my kitty alot with the nausea. Are you doing Sub-Qs at this time or has it gotten that far yet? I found that sometimes a sporadic Sub-Q treatment helped her as well.

Unfortunately, for Diabetic Kitty...nothing seems to work. I am putting extra food out before I go to bed and I also make sure he has eaten something about an hour before I go to bed. He still does the vomiting. Plus, he's always hungry. He seems to be maintaining his weight but not gaining at all.

It's so hard to watch your pets age and become ill. I just wish I could do something to help him feel better.
quasifish
14 years ago
Saintpfla, I can imagine that with diabetes, the metabolic issues make things different- particularly the constant hunger. As you probably know from experience, our issues are on the end of lack of appetite.

I'm curious if your kitty does pretty well during the day otherwise? It is so tough to end up on one of these roller coaster rides.

For our kitty we have been doing sub-q's regularly for 3.5 years and have tried various acid reducers as recommended by the vet. Sometimes increasing sub-q frequency helps with the vomiting, sometimes not; we haven't had particular luck with the acid reducers decreasing the vomiting. They have helped settle her stomach to eat at times though.

What made her a good eater for a while in her illness was that she would eat competitively with her litter-mate. If she thought the food was out for him, she would gobble it down! He passed away from cancer in January, and her weight has dropped by a couple of pounds since then (from 9 to 7, I think)- greif and no one to compete against. Our vet encouraged us to consider getting another cat to get her to eat a little better, and we had an opportunity to take a kitten of a stray that my mother took in recently. We just got him on Wednesday (he's already been checked and is very healthy and safe for her), so we are hoping this might help her more than anything. I'm surprised at how quickly she's already taken to him after just a couple of days. She is eating better already too.

Just a thought if you are interested, but there is a book (I had a copy for years) titled The New Natural Cat. She has some ideas about diabetes in there, particularly in regard to homemade meals that are better for the pancreas. I don't know enough about diabetes to give you much other information, but wonder if your cat would benefit from something like that? I'd bet there are recipes along the same lines on the internet- that is how I found the initial homemade kidney diet our cat ate for a while.

FWIW, I've found that the premium carpet and upholstery cleaner that you can buy at Home Depot is great for cleaning up cat puke and is very economical. I mix it in an old carpet cleaner spray bottle (22oz?) and it takes just under 2 ounces of that concentrate to mix up a full bottle. A gallon goes a long way that way. Earlier on we were going broke buying bottles of ready mixed carpet cleaner.

Best of luck and thanks for the ideas on our old girl.
Meghane
14 years ago
You can buy a glucometer for less than $100 and test BG on your cat at home. The problem with getting a BG from a cat at the vet is that even non-diabetic cats can easily get stressed enough to increase their BG to over 300 at the hospital. The better test, IMHO, is fructosamine, which is a one-time blood draw and measures how well regulated the patient has been over the last 3 weeks or so. I do this test about 3 weeks after starting a patient on insulin or changing their dose. It is MUCH less stressful for the patient, and gives more accurate results.
suzieque
14 years ago
A glucose reading of 70 is NOT too low! How I would've loved to see 70 in the 7 years of treating my diabetic cat. 40 or 35 or lower can be too low and very dangerous. But 70 isn't.

I strongly advise you to buy a glucometer and test prior to each meal and each shot. Think of human diabetics; that's what they do. Do not leave it up to the vet checking now and then. Cats get stressed at the vet, the appointments will be at different times of day, all things can lead to a bad reading.

Now is your opportunity to do your cat a favor and agressively own this disease; it's not a death sentence. But you have to be on top of it and test, test, test. Visit the Feline Diabetes Message Forum and read all you can. Your cat will be much healthier for it.

Good luck!
SaintPFLA
Original Author
14 years ago
Suzieque: Thanks for the suggestions - especially as someone who has been treating a diabetic kitty. My cat is extremely difficult to medicate, pill, clip his nails - basically anything other than patting him. Surprisingly, I can inject him with no major drama.

I have not tried the home BG testing as I did not feel I'd have any success because he is so difficult. I will check out the forum that you have recommended.

How long did it take for you to learn and to be successful at testing your cat's BG?

Meghane: thanks for the suggestions as well. I'll ask about the fructosamine.

Quasifish: I do remember the lack of eating problem so very well - and, my desperation at trying to find something - ANY food - that she would eat. Jars of turkey baby food seemed to work more consistently for my thyroid/kidney. It's a constant vigillance though. I'm glad your kitty is perking up a little due to the new kitty being present. That is good news.

Thanks for the book suggestion. I'll check it out! Thanks for the carpet cleaner suggestion. I'm lucky that my house is hard-wood floor and tile. I do have throw rugs that I toss out once I can no longer get them clean! ;-)
plantknitter
14 years ago
If anyone is in the Seattle Everett area, we have a case of Purina DM with 23 cans left that I would love to sell for half price to someone who has a Diabetic cat.
Our kitty had insulin resistant diabetes and acromegaly. We kept him happy and comfortable for 18 months after diagnosis but he passed a few weeks ago.

Diabetic kitty questions...

Comments (9)

Meghane

SaintPFLA
Original Author

Related Discussions

quasifish

SaintPFLA
Original Author

quasifish

Meghane

suzieque

SaintPFLA
Original Author

plantknitter

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Diabetic kitty questions...

Comments (9)

Meghane

SaintPFLAOriginal Author

Related Discussions

quasifish

SaintPFLAOriginal Author

quasifish

Meghane

suzieque

SaintPFLAOriginal Author

plantknitter

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

SaintPFLA
Original Author

SaintPFLA
Original Author

SaintPFLA
Original Author