Reverse Osmosis system the best solution for me?

11 years ago

Ok, Atlantic Blue was here today to test my water, and here are the results:
Hardness: 10 gpg
Iron: 0 ppm
pH: 7
Nitrates: 10 ppm (YIKES!)
Chlorine: 0 ppm
TDS: 160 ppm

The recommendation by Atlantic Blue was the Atlantic Blue Kwik Change RO for drinking water, $995 installed;

or the Point of Use Nitrate for $695 installed.

Both systems use proprietary filters.

They told me the filters must be replaced annually and they will come out and replace them for $250. The RO Membrane filter gets replaced every 3-5 years.

The Atlantic Blue Reverse Osmosis 5 stage purification process is manufactured by Watts. The marketing sheet says 50 GPD TFC membrane and 3.2 gallon storage tank. 5 year warranty on AB Reverse Osmosis and 2 year warranty on Storage Tank.

They said the water softener would be $1900 installed, but I don't have problems with cloudy glassware or sediment in my faucets, so I prefer not to install that. Am I harming my dishwasher, etc. if I don't soften my water?

Thoughts? Should I just order a RO system online that uses generic filters and have the plumber who is working on my kitchen remodel do it? Or should I go with this proprietary system that Atlantic Blue is selling?

If I choose the online route is there a brand and model number you can steer me towards that is reputable and reliable?

I did post this in the Plumbing forum as well, but I know this forum gets a lot more traffic, so I thought I would post my query here, too. Thanks in advance.

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Comments (7)

gwlolo
11 years ago
If you can, call Kinetico for their analysis and estimate. Based on feedback here and elsewhere on the web, it seems like they are a very reputable brand with high quality products. Water softener will help with longevity of your pipes and plumbing as well. Many high end dishwashers actually come with a built in water softener as the washing performance is so much better than hard water. There are a lot of water scammers out there. So I would definitely suggest getting a couple different opinions.
gwlolo
11 years ago
Deleted duplicate post..

This post was edited by GWlolo on Fri, Mar 1, 13 at 21:17
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A carbon block filter will make your water taste and smell better, but it will not help your TDS problem. My water has a similar TDS, and my RO system gets it down to 12-15. I bought a system from Airwaterice.com for $200 several years ago. It has 3 filters (10,5, and 1 micron) in front of the RO membrane. The line coming out from the membrane is split. One line goes to a 35 gallon rubbermaid garbage can which I use to store water for the orchids. The other line goes to a carbon block filter and then to a 2 gallon pressurize tank which we use for drinking water. The garbage can has a float valve (also available from above web site) which cuts off the water when it is full. The RO system has an automatic shut off valve as well. Ongoing costs are approx $20 each year to replace all the filters. The RO membrane should be good for several years as long as you replace the filters regularly. Mine is almost 3 years old and still delivering good performance (as measured by TDS). Replacement RO membranes cost $39. RO water is not really acidic, it is very near pH 7, but since it has no salts there is no buffering capacity and adding fertilizer drops the pH precipitously. I use MSU formula for RO water and add Pro-Tekt to raise the pH to near 7. The question is, how much water do you need each week? I use approx 70 gallons per week so it is well worth it.
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Kinetico products are sold by Kinetico dealers only. Google the name for info. Softeners are different deal. All they do is soften -- which leaves less work for the RO unit to accomplish -- which means they last longer. RO units work just fine without soft water going in. Only be aware that, depending on your water quality, you will likely be replacing RO membranes every 2-6 years as opposed to 10-15 years -- or indefinitely -- with soft water. Replacement is easy. You'll also be replacing pre- and post-filters at 6-month/1-year intervals throughout. My systems shut themselves off after 500 gallons (new systems may be different...don't know) which, for me, means about every 10 months.
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I’m not a pro by training but I spent a solid 4 months (every single day) researching, reading, talking to chemical engineers at the local university, plumbers, etc. I exhausted myself day and night. I slept with my phone waiting for replies from a water chemist engineer from Germany. Stress. Bought a house with a well. Had water tested at lab and I had just about every problem imagined. Forget the local water treatment salesmen, unless you just want to make a donation. Waste of time and inefficient. I wasted a lot of time with those companies before I realized they didn’t know a damn thing. First test water for EVERYTHING! Yes, you have to go to a lab and probably spend $250.00 or more. Hardness PH bacteria levels iron sulfur and Sulphates TDS, alkalinity, manganese, everything! Get results and go from there. I had high iron, hardness, iron bacteria, dangerously high sulphates, rotten egg smell, all with a low Flow rate well. This matters! After handling all of my issues I was stuck with sulphates which is hard to deal with. R/O is the only way. This means I was going to be limited to having drinkable water in one location in my brand new house...the kitchen sink. I couldn’t even use the water dispenser or ice machine from my fridge because there was no practical way to connect an r/o system. I wanted a full house r/o where my kids could get water from their bathroom sink...but I have copper pipes so I didn’t think it was an option. ****IT IS AN OPTION no don’t have to re-pipe. BUT YOU DO HAVE TO TREAT OTHER ISSUES FIRST. Hard water doesn’t do well going into R/O system. Simply put, you r/o for the entire house and after R/O system you install another system which is a re-mineralizing the water to neutralize the PH and make it taste REALLY GOOD! The neutralized water (ph around 7-8) will not corrode anything. Water tastes just like the ph water from “smart water” You will spend some money. There will be an adjustment period while you fine tune everything. It’s worth it at the end. Licensed plumber for install. Water salesmen can not do this. Good luck. Bad water sucks, I almost put our house back on the market because nobody could figure it out. Eventually, some very kind and intelligent people helped me. They weren’t selling anything or getting anything in return. They just simply took the time to help someone in a bad situation. I am grateful and found this post and wanted to share. There is a way to fix water, no matter how bad.
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There are several ways that an RO system can be configured, so some of the generalizations above are not truly general. One can simply feed water to an RO membrane (after prefiltering out junk and chlorine with a carbon filter) and send the RO output to a faucet and the waste (brine) to a drain. This is the minimal configuration. The next level of complexity would add a pressure tank to the RO side. This will store RO water, improving flow when needed, but the RO efficiency will drop as the back pressure on the membrane increases. An elaboration that I use, primarily with parts I've purchased from SpectraPure, makes use of a peristaltic pump driven by the waste water. This pump re-establishes the RO water pressure to the tank while effectively lowering it to near zero on the membrane side for efficient filter operation. The pump doesn't use electricity directly, but low-voltage is used by the pressure sensor control of the valve that allows water to the membrane. My house water at this writing is 96 psi and my RO water is at 64 psi. The RO water is plumbed to various places in the house. The RO membranes don't really like 96 psi, so a mechanical pressure limiter is used to set the input at the filters to around 60 psi. Even more elaborate systems can be engineered recirculating the brine and thereby maximizing extraction efficiency. kas Here is a link that might be useful: Spectrapure
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MichaelsAd
11 years ago
I have an under the counter reverse osmosis system from Aquasafe Systems, and love it. It is also a six stage, as the 5 stages usually don't have a DI stage and provide water that is slightly acidic, whereas the 6 stage I purchased has a pH of 7.8. Their system is also under $200 although is self installation, but a plumber can easily do it in an hour, as this is how long it took me. And the filters replacements are very inexpensive as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: Aquasafe Systems
caliente63
11 years ago
For those who do not know, MichaelsAd only ever posts here to tell us how great Aquasafe RO systems are. A cynical person might think he is a shill for the company, not a genuine forum member at all.
chiefneil
11 years ago
The prices you mention for RO and water softener are pretty high. The RO is particularly high - you should be able to get a similar system for under $500 installed. I have mine serviced every six months for around $100, so the service you're quoted isn't too bad. You could DIY change the filters if you don't mind getting your hands dirty.

The softener is in the range of a high-end, high-flow system. I think mine cost around $1500 seven years ago, and at the time had a top of the line valve. That system supports 4.5 bathrooms, so if your requirements are less you could spend a lot less on a smaller system. In general with softeners most companies assemble their own from off the shelf parts, so you want to look at the brand name of the valve, not the retailer.

Anyway, I'd recommend getting a few more quotes. Especially from local places that don't sell equipment with their own brand name on it, which will lead to a sizable markup.
Cavimum
11 years ago
We had Culligan RO in the last house along with water softener. A WS system helps the RO filters last long, but still the RO filters are expensive. We opted for the Brita pitchers in this house and I still believe it's cheaper. I dont' know how effective they are in filtering nitrates.

One thing I hated about our RO was the time it took for the talk to refill. If I emptied it completely (like for a dinner party), it took hours to refill, rendering it worthless or requiring me to draw and store water in advance. Our tank only held one or two gallons. Perhaps they're larger now.
luckymom
11 years ago
I'd avoid any sort of propietary anything- what happens in the future if they go out of business? RO systems aren't that difficult to install, and you can buy them a lot cheaper (even Costco carries them- Watts brand about $250). Changing the filters can be easy depending on where it's mounted (mine is on the outside wall on the lanai- I live in FL). Flip a couple things up, click in the new filters and done in under 5 minutes. Under the sink? It'd take me hours- just clearing out stuff...

We've got a water softener and the RO- I don't really like the feel of soft water, but it will save your pipes. We also have well water, so I know that makes a big difference. Down here you can have your water tested by one of the local government agencies- I'd never trust a water treatment salesman (had an ex who did that for a while).I'd see if that's available in your area.

Reverse Osmosis system the best solution for me?

Comments (7)

gwlolo

gwlolo

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