Sorry to hear about your dog - I don't have any knowledge of this, and I'm sure others here can help. I would suggest that you also go to the Just Labradors forum, where there is a wealth of knowledge about labs specifically and many owners post about health issues.
(Didn't we used to be able to email from GardenWeb?)

Here is a link that might be useful: Labrador forum

I'm so sorry to hear about your girls problems. I'm going thru something similar with my Dobe. We recently found out that she has cancer. It is affecting her liver and spleen. Luckily at work we have on staff one of the best veterinary oncologist anywhere near our area and she has been a tremendous help with various things to help keep her comfortable and hopefully to slow down the progression of the cancer as it is not treatable thru traditional means.
We are changing her diet and doing herbal supplements to try and slow down the spread of the cancer as well as accupuncture to help with her arthritis and her general well being along with some pain meds. She has lost some weight and some days she doesn't want to eat a lot but overall she is still enjoying most of the things she always loved to do. Just slower at it.

With Jane in obvious pain I would ask if there is any way the cushing test could be done sooner. One of my Akitas had Cushings and your dogs symptoms don't really match his, of course every dog is different. Sorry I can't offer you any specific advice but I sure can sympathize with what you're going thru.

Lisa

Best of luck. Sometimes I think the diagnosis and lack of "knowing" is the hardest part to live through. You may want to try chicken baby food while she's not wanting to eat . . . at least until you know what is wrong. It's pretty bland and worked when one of my shelties was going through the diagnosis phase until we got the proper medication started. Again, good luck.

Thanks for the links!

dobesrule, or anyone, have any ideas as standard supplements/vitamins to start giving to Jane on a reg. basis?
Thanks for the love! Hopefully everyone can open this link of a Pic. of my Jane!

Here is a link that might be useful:

I'm so sorry to hear about your Jane.

I'm a bit worried with her vomiting after having not eaten very much or at all. She could very easily become dehydrated which will make her feel even worse. Perhaps you can consider a trip to the emergency vets (how do dogs know to get sick on holiday weekends?) so Jane can get IV fluids and medication to reduce the vomiting.

I would strongly caution against giving any supplements unless you get a diagnosis. Many times vets think Cushing's disease when there is a very high ALKP which is also associated with liver disease. If she does not have Cushings- and you're correct it certainly doesn't sound like it- then she may have a serious liver problem. Almost everything is metabolized by the liver, and can become easily toxic if the liver is not working properly. Even natural supplements, vitamins etc. must have dosages adjusted to account for the liver not working properly. So I would be very relucant to use anything unless you knew her body could handle it.

In the meantime, if she is not vomiting, try to get her to eat. Give her small non/low fat bland meals such as baby food, boiled meat with fat removed, even plain rice. If she keeps vomiting she will eventually get electrolyte imbalances in addition to dehydration and that is really very bad and she should definately see the vet ASAP if that happens.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Meghane is right. Without knowing exactly what problem your dog is dealing with it's hard to make recommendations for her that may not make matters worse. Everything that I'm giving is geared towards the cancer patient. Hope you're vet can see her soon to get started on a diagnosis. After you get something to go on then you may want to take a look at the b-naturals.com website for info on supplements.

Lisa

Do you happen to have a copy of the bloodwork handy? If so you can compare it to this link below to see exactly what levels are off and the link suggests disease processes that may be assoicated. I agree with the others about the worry of dehydration. So sorry I know how upsetting things can be when you don't really know the answers yet. Best of luck.

Here is a link that might be useful: Understanding bloodwork

Janegirler,

I have a dog with confirmed Cushing's and your dog's symptoms do not sound at all the same.

Cushing's Disease is when the body produces excess cortisol (a steroid), usually due to a tumor on the adrenal gland. This tumor is usually benign. The excess steroid her body would produce if she had Cushing's would also make Jane drink like there is no tomorrow and would also make her ravenous. The excess thirst also would cause her to urinate like crazy. Cushing's also presents with a distended abdomen.

Does she have any of this?

The test for Cushing's is $$$. The vet can often tell by specific bloodwork (looking at the liver levels), whether the animal may have Cushing's. This is a much cheaper test. If the vet already found abnormal liver values, then the Cushing's test is the next step.

I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. My dog has been living with Cushing's for 3 years now.

What did the blood tests show re: liver enzymes?

Like others here have said, what you're seeing doesn't sound like Cushings. Has your vet mentioned Addisons or suggested doing more tests for liver problems?

One of my dogs tested false-positive (or lab made a mistake) for Cushings. She was treated, then suffered afterward from Addisons since too much of her (healthy) adrenaline gland had been destroyed from the treatment. She had the same symptoms you described, but so did one of my dogs that had liver disease.

I would look into other illnesses before paying for a Cushings test.

Here is a link that might be useful: adrenal

I'm so sorry to hear that Jane is not feeling well. I have a 13 year old black lab who goes through similar spells with no real rhyme or reason. We've learned to manage them and hope for the best each time. The last time lasted a couple of weeks and then she was back to running around like a puppy.

This is a dog that has always eaten everything in sight (part of the problem some of the time) so when she stops eating we get really worried. She'll also do the foamy, yellow vomit. Sometimes we can't find any explanation for her sickness, sometimes we figure she's found something in the yard to eat that has made her ill- last time it was egg shells I threw in a mulch pile and I only knew it that time because they actually came back up. Before that we had episodes where we suspected mushrooms growing in the lawn, and another time cat poop. She's also eaten a bone that wouldn't come up or go down and was making her very ill until she threw it up after about 5 days. Do you think it's possible that Jane has gotten into something that she should not have? Something like that can throw their whole system off for weeks.

When our dog has a bad spell I feed her whatever she will eat. Often that's boiled hamburger mixed with white rice, sometimes I throw in some carrots or peas. Other times I'll make her a baked potato with butter. It seems like she needs to eat to feel better and after a few days of eating well she'll start nibbling on her regular food and eventually go back to gobbling it up. There may be other underlying issues with our dog that are turning up from time to time, but we can't seem to pinpoint anything. My husband claims she is "faking it" so I'll make her baked potatoes :) (easy to do in the microwave)

One herbal supplement that is very safe for most conditions, and helps sooth the stomach and digestive tract is slippery elm bark. I've used it for myself with great luck, as well as my very ill cat, but the dog hasn't seemed to get much benefit from it. If you're interested, do a search online for it and see what you think about the information. My cat has thyroid, kidney, and liver issues and it's safe for her...

I hope Jane feels better soon.

Q

Thanks for some input everyone. I've been real busy trying to come up with questions and answers. Well, I'm not sure that I mentioned it, but when I took Jane to the vet last thurs she weighed 66lbs!- 20 lb. loss in 3 weeks. Her normal weight is 85lbs.,what a shocker! Over the weekend I was able to get her to eat meat, chicken, some boiled and chopped broccoli and carrots, some brown rice and a couple of doggy gravy type mini snack meals. She got some excercise and lots of rest. I took her to the vet first thing yesterday, she gained 6 lbs! I have a tentative appt this friday for cushings test. he said it will cost $175. It seems kinda pricey and I kinda feel like it may be an easy sell for him, but......I also feel like it will rule out cushings or not. So, I'm still up in the air about the test, yet leaning against it because... I recieved a copy of her blood and urinalysis report also.
Her alkaline phosphatase levels were very high- 618, compared to the ref. range of 5-131 being normal.
Her lipase levels were a little low-72 / from 77-695.
Her CPK levels were low-47 / from 59-895.
Her HGB was low-11.2 / from 12.1-20.3.
Her HCT was low-35 / from 36-60.
Her platelet count was high-406 / from 170-400.
Her urinalysis was normal. and the rest of her blood test resulted in the normal ranges.

Based on the tests and what I've learned, I feel like there may be some sort of liver problem. Is there any sort of test that can be given that shows more diagnosis in the liver disease area?

He also thought about giving her some x-rays to see if something shows bloated or enlarged from those. Seems like that could be useful....

Regardless, Jane is vomitting at least once a day, sometimes also hacking some foamy, white and yellow slime a couple of times, too. She isn't really throwing up her food that she eats though. Mostly after she drinks a bunch of water or 1 or 2 biscuits. Her food seems to be getting digested ok.
When I saw the vet yesterday and told him about the vomitting, He then seemed a bit unsure that cushings might not be the issue, but also said that nothing is ever by the book and it would help rule that out. I need to know if there are other tests based on her initial blood tests that should maybe be given before the cushings test comes into play? any suggestions? I won't be able to get back online until tomorrow night, and her appt is fri. morning so if anyone has some experience first hand with suggestions, let me know asap. I'll keep in touch! thanks Janegirler

We had a similar experience with our female Lab, Sammy, when she was nearing 10 years old. She had a Mast Cell tumor removed when she was 8 years old and another skin tumor removed at 9yrs. so we kind of expected cancer was her problem when she stopped eating and couldn't move well anymore. Our vet smelled her breath and said she was going into liver failure and had us go to an animal imaging center immediately in our area, and when they x-rayed her abdomine she had a large tumor which was inoperable. We had to put her down that weekend and our family went into mourning for a while, she was a great dog. I do hope that is not your outcome, but maybe instead of an expensive Cushings test, an xray first might yield some information. Good luck and I hope it works out well.

Just returned from vet today. Jane had xrays which showed a mild to medium enlarged liver. The xrays were a bit harsh, though. The vet also took a cushings test. I will find out tomorrow if she has that or not. He seemed to think that she had enough signs/symptoms to do that test.
I really hope she doesn't. Based on her blood work and xrays it wouldn't seem like it, but I wont't know till tomorrow. When asked, he didn't think that she could have some sort of parasite inside that would create all of her symptoms. He also said if she didn't have cushings then the next step in diagnosing would be an ultrasound. What also showed on the xrays was arthritis of the central spine, mid back area. good to know, but not what I'm after. It is definitely getting expensive. We are hoping for the best. I will keep all informed.Janegirler

Janegirler, Still thinking about you and your Jane and wishing you a good outcome. I wanted to mention that we had an ultrasound on our Sammy, rather than an xray when her diagnosis was made, I remembered after my posting. I know what you mean about expensive, but what can we do when they get sick? Good luck and keep us posted.

Please consider pancretitis........we almost lost our sweet boy to it a few years ago. He had the classic symtons of not wanting to eat, the yellow foaming stomach bile vomits. Please don't feed Jane fatty foods. Boil that hamburger well and rinse before adding it to the rice. And we have since learned that liquid tagment given at the beginning of an episode and withholding food for 12-24 hours often catches it before it gets bad. It is painful for Jane if she is having episodes. And our boy would drink and them throw up so we had to give him water by syringe just a bit at a time. Good luck with your girl hope she's back 100% soon....
arkiema

I've been thinking about Jane too and hoping for the best.

We've had liver issues here too this year, so sympathize with you on the possibility of that one. Both the cat and I have had unexplained liver value problems this year, not sure if the cats will bounce back up (they were really high, but dropped dramatically after a month's wait), mine finally returned to normal after 6 long months (probably the result of pregnancy the figure).

What has your vet said about possible liver issues? With both the cat and myself we took a wait and see approach, redoing tests at intervals to see if the values were going down. I think this is a valid approach *IF* the animal is eating okay and feeling better. You can get increased liver values from starvation issues though and if Jane wasn't eating, it may have been caused by that. It takes a while for liver values to return to normal too, though they usually show a change.

Our cat has done a lot of foamy vomitting as a result of her illnesses. The vet said the vomitting happens because the stomach is upset. Are you feeding Jane lots of small meals throughout the day? Will she eat that often? It might help to keep food in her tummy. Our cat is also on generic tagement as well- it seems to help when she needs it.

Good luck. Prayers for Jane that she feels better- and prayers for you, it's so stressful when they are sick :(

Q

Hello,
I recieved results from the cushings test today. Negative. Thats good. The vet seems to be surprised about it, he was feeling good about it being cushings. I'm kinda getting frustrated with the situation. After talking to him before the cushings test and xrays, and telling him my feelings regarding me not thinking it was cushings, but some sort of liver or stomach problem, he still though I should do the test. So I do, $300 later and still no diagnosis, and now he wants to have an ultrasound, which is $300 and could run up to $500 with an apesiotomy? to sample the liver. I'm not sure what to do, I can't afford the tests and am still paying for the cushings/xrays. My dog still vomits 1-2 x's/day, just liquids-not food, still not eating very much, drinks water and pees alot, having trouble going #2,seems nauseated in the mornings and after car rides, definitely has an enlarged liver and maybe spleen and possibly the stomach wall too are all enlarged a bit, still 12 #'s underweight, her breath is normal, her gums are normal, she doesn't voice any pain, very depressed and down looking. I can't think of how bad I'd feel if she gets worse than now, but without a diagnosis, I can't prescribe her any meds, and an ultrasound won't necessarily get me answers. Any help or thoughts out there??Thank you:)

ultra sounds can give you answers many times or at least an indication of where the problem most likely exists or doesn't. Her symptoms fit so many things so you're right in the sense you can't medicate until you have a more clear understanding. if it were my dog I'd be looking for a referal to a Soft tissue specialist most likely at one of the Veterinary colleges where the testing can all be done at the same time. The sooner the better (the stress of waiting in-between is just way to much IMO)it's not cheap, medical testing for animals health issues have come along way, but the price has gone up as well.
I'm very sorry, this is never easy. ((((((((hugs)))))

I'm so sorry that Jane isn't doing any better.

An ultrasound-guided aspirate of anything unusual they see may be the cheapest and least stressful way to attempt to get a diagnosis. Another option is to go whole-hog and jump into an abdominal exploratory surgery, but that will be expensive. On the other hand, if they find something that can be removed then you'd save money in the long run. But surgery will probably cost ~$2000 with biopsies, and may not be able to do anything other than confirm a disease that may or may not be able to be fixed. I don't think endoscopy will be too much of a help because it's only going to see inside the GI tract and not tell anything about the liver. There isn't really any other blood test that will help at this point.

Is Jane on any medication at all? I'd ask the vet about putting her on metoclopramide to hopefully ease the vomiting/nausea and maybe make her eat a bit. She really needs some help now because the longer she doesn't eat, the harder any type of treatment will be on her.

I know this is really a rough time for you and Jane. I just went through it too with my Aleksander. My whole family has your family in our thoughts.

Best of thoughts are headed your way. As I mentioned before, the hardest part of what you are going through (in my opinion) is the not knowing phase. It's also, unfortunately, the most expensive. Keep us posted on what you learn. I'll be thinking of you.

I just talked to an old family friend vet who I thought wasn't practicing anymore today. Turns out he is. His first thoughts over the phone were something wrong with Jane's GI tract. Based on all of her current tests/signs/symptoms. I have an appt with him tomorrow so we'll see. He said sometimes tumors can grow in between the stomach and the small intestines that can be a food blockage. As it grows, the dog will eat less cause it can't get food down past that and also encourages vomitting. Jane won't eat and she is going on 2 full days w/o food. She is drinking though. Tomorrow can't come soon enough......

Janegirler (((((hugs)))),

I am glad to hear that it is not Cushing's, but now you are left with not only not knowing what is causing poor Jane's symptoms, but mounting vet bills. So you are in a tough spot all around right now and you have my sympathy.

With respect to the expense, talk to your vet about your financial situations. Some vets will allow you to pay over time at low interest (or no interest). Or he may have other alternatives, like for example maybe there is a nearby veterinary teaching college that could do the ultrasound for much less.

Good luck and let us know how Jane does!!

Janegirler, I've been thinking about you as well and praying for the best. I hope you at least got some answers with the appointment.

My old lab is going into another bad spell just this morning after weeks of doing great, so my thoughts and heart are really on you and your situation today.

I haven't found vets (at least in my area) to be overly helpful in regards to finances, so have kept an unused credit card around for vet bills. If this is really putting you into financial hardship, there are a number of organizations out there that will help with veterinary assistance or costs. I had a list at one time and will try to find it if you are interested and would qualify, otherwise just do a search for such a thing.

Good luck and (((HUGS)))

Q

Just a follow up on my lab Jane. Unfortunately she was laid to rest last tuesday the 12th. I had scheduled that day for Jane to have exploratory surgery to further diagnose her poor health. Based on the day before's vet visit, that was the next thing to do to better determine her diagnosis, rather than have an ultrasound, which would have only pointed to the area of the problem, not the problem itself. After a week and a half of trying to figure out what her health problems were, the surgery would finally give me some answers. The xrays from the day before were marred by extensive fluid in her abdomen. The doc extracted 700 cc's of fluid before to get a clearer view but to little avail. The xrays showed an enlarged liver. He also palpated her belly/abdomen area and felt a sizeable tumor. To have surgery would be the most reasonable way of finding her problems.
So, on tuesday, she had exploratory surgery. Well, the doc found that her liver was covered with cancer nodes. He informed me of his findings right away. He said that by the time I had seen that something was wrong with Jane, it was probably too late to help her. He noted that to have her put thru chemo would be pretty hard on her body. She already hadn't eaten in 4 days and was not doing good at all. I agreed that she seemed to be suffering greatly and made the decision to lay her to rest.
Probably the worst day of my life. Jane was my best friend. She always was there for me. From her birth to her rest of 8 yrs, 10 months old, she provided me with unconditional love and friendship that can't be found just anywhere. I am grateful that she will not suffer anymore. It was the saddest week and a half to see her suffering yet wanting to be who she always was, the best, happiest, most encouraging dog she could be!
I'd like to thank all of the people on this forum for their incredible thoughts and support while Jane and I went thru this ordeal. You personally have helped me understand and deal with this tragic loss of life and I appreciate it.

I was so sorry to read about your best girl...it is such a hard thing to deal with, I know. Lost my best little girlfriend in May and I still look for her by my side, but know I did the best thing for HER. My thoughts and prayers....

I'm sorry to hear this. It will be difficult for you right now, but you did your best. I started on the forum after my golden died last December 26 - it greatly helped me to simply connect with other dog owners, and to see the joy we all feel with our pets. Please accept my sympathy. (It's maybe too soon for you, but it helped my grief to write a page of things I'd loved about my golden, and all the funny things she did.)

I'm so very sorry to hear that this was the outcome. I know you know you did the best for your Jane, and having gone through such a similar situation a few years ago with our Sammy, I can actually feel the pain you are going through. Please know our thoughts are with you.

I am so sorry about your loss. Poor Jane knew that you were doing everything you could for her. I lost my Megan like this in January. For her, though, there we absolutely no signs that she was ill until she had internal bleeding from a liver cancer tumor that burst. At the emergency vet, they took one look at her, said "She's a lab mix, so this is probably cancer. If it is in her liver, we'll call you right during the surgery to euthanize her." Liver cancer seems to be common for labs. Well, they were right, and they put her to sleep while she was still under anesthetic from the surgery. I drove back there and petted her until she was cold.

I am so sorry to hear of your Jane. I know how you feel about your Jane's suffering. You did everything you could for her, and she tried her hardest for you. You will remember her wonderful presence in your life forever. She is a part of you by way of the lessons she taught you about love and devotion. You will mourn the lack of her company, but a part of her remains in the person you have become. I will think of you and your Jane girl often and send you thoughts of healing and comfort.

I'm so sorry about your Jane girl. It's such a rotten feeling to know that you did your best for them and still can't help them.

Lisa

I'm so sorry for your loss.

Q

My heart goes out to you.

Sally

I'm so sorry for your loss. You gave Jane every chance. She knows how much you loved her all her life. And now she can rest while waiting for you on the other side.
MeghanE

I'm so sorry for your loss. I wish the results would have been different for Jane and you.
You loved her with all your heart and she knew it and loved you back.
Sadly, her time here was over. She's in another place now and pain free.
In time, you'll be together again.

((((Jane))))

janegirler,

I am so sorry about Jane! ((((many hugs)))