I would first look into pain control before I'd worry about teeth at this point. If the vet thinks an infection may be a result of the teeth, then you have to weigh the risks against the benefits.

I have an old gal now also...........around 15........and her teeth need cleaning, but her other health problems far outweigh the stress and risk of having her teeth cleaned. At the moment prednisone controls her digestive problems and keeps her moving like a younger dog.
There are other arthritis meds that your vet can recommend.

annz,
Thank you and I agree, her teeth are not my first concern, if she couldn't eat or something I would lean that way but her weight loss is my real concern. Actually the Vet thinks the infection is due to her incontinent problem. I know the arthritis is an ongoing problem for her and she has been on meds and the glucosamine supplements....the weight loss is strange though, maybe she needs an x-ray....I worry about cancer at her age but I can't see anything to lead me to think that way.

How well I know your dilemma. My girl will be 12 in November, she is larger labrador. She has literally no hips. Worst x-rays for dysplasia my vet says hes ever seen. Her teeth are worn down, eyes cloudy, practically a two-legged dog. That said, at my last well visit with her (which in it of itself is an ordeal just getting her there) I asked my vet if it was time. Martha takes many meds (penobarb for seizures, propalin for urine control, Dermax for the hips, and another I can't think of the name of right at the moment, etc.) I am trying not to make the decision based on what it is costing me monthly ($150) - not including flea and tick control and heartworm meds keep in mind that I have 2 more labs and 3 cats. Back to what the vet said. Criteria in his practice for "when it is time" - does she wag her tail when you come home from work and is she glad to see you - YES; is she still eating well - YES, NEVER BETTER; and can she get out of her own excriment - yes so far. So for my girl I will wait until something changes. I am sure she is in a certain level of pain, I am trying to manage with Deramax and the other med. She is my shadow. We have a routine which she will not waver from. She comes upstairs every night after her last potty. Sure she struggles up the steps, determined to be on the floor on her bed next to me on my bed. I will be so sad when it is time for my best friend to go. That said, I will not keep her going for me. I have faced this before with my first lab in 2001 (he was 11). After a horrible all-nighter with him I knew in the morning that I was going to have to make that dreaded phone call. I stayed with him while the vet did what he had to do and had some alone time with him once the vet was done. Hardest thing I have ever had to do, but you will know (even if you have trouble admitting it) and you will have the strength to do the right thing for your pet. Best regards.

I am writing this in hopes it will help you, twotogo and labmama. It is meant to explain that you will know when it is time for you to do the right thing for your pets, as hard as it will be. If you don't think you can handle it - then stop reading here.

We went through a similiar situation with our 14 year old Chelsea, a Brittany. She had been in pain for the last 5 years or so of her life with arthritis. You could hear her joints crack when she moved. Our vet put her on cortisone shot every six months and Meta-Cam daily. It is a liquid that you squirt either into their mouth or on food. We couldn't beleive the difference after having the shot and Meta-Cam. She was more like a puppy than she had been in years. She started running again, jumping up into her recliner to sleep, even barking (we had thought she had finally outgrown that bad habit but we were so happy to see it again). We really didn't know how much pain she was in. The Meta-Cam gave her another year and a half of good quality of life. This past Feb. we noticed she started moving more slowly, and didn't want to move around as much. One evening she seemed to slip and hit her tummy on the edge of a step from our breakfast room to kitchen. She kinds yelped, then almost immedialtey had trouble moving. Our daughter in law who works for a vet suggested giving an aspirin for pain, which we did. She seemed better for a while that night but had trouble squatting. The next day I took her in and the vet said he felt what he thought was a growth in her stomach/bladder area. He did an xray and ultra sound to confirm this. She already had had one spell with fluid around her heart about 6 months before so we were leary of surgery and if it was cancer, then we were fighting a losing battle. We brought her home with pain meds and such. That week was hard. She was okay during the day - would move around some, still ate her food, still pottied with some difficulty standing, no vomiting or diahreea. But at night she whined and cried. DH spent five nights with her by his side, just holding her. Next morning she was back to moving around. It was really strange. On Thursday evening, she perked up, played with us like when she was a puppy, (she always played with me like this - on her back swatting at my hands with those long legs!). We thought okay maybe she could survive the surgery, we will talk with the vet tomorrow. Friday morning, she was back to not standing, not wanting to eat, and she had shallow breathing. Friday night DH gave her her medicine for pain and the next morning she hadn't moved and wouldn't move. He had to pick her up to go outside and hold her up to potty. We knew what we had to do, the look in her eyes said, "I don't want to be in pain anymore." We called our wonderful vet and he told us what to do. We gave her another dose of pain meds and stayed with her over the next couple of hours. When the vet's office was ready to close at noon, he had us bring her in. Since she was heavily sedated already, he just gave her a shot of (SP?) phenabaritdal and by the time the shot was over, she was at rest. Now it was terribly hard for weeks, I have never seen my DH so upset by anything as this before, even when we lost our 18 year old Poppy, a cockapoo. I guess then we focused our attention on our young son, who is now grown. Anyway, you will know what you have to do, they will tell you.

It has been 7 months. I still miss Chelsea so much. We debated about getting another puppy, the pros and cons. Well, just a little over a week ago, we ended up with TWO Mini Labradoodles. It feels good again to have them around but it took much longer for me to feel it was the right thing to do.

I hope this helps.

Thanks mboston for your post. I am sure I will know when it is time. As I previously posted, I have been through this with my first labrador, Sonny. He sadly went at age 11. No problem handling it, my first guy had many problems but the worst was laryngeal paralysis surgery. If it were posed to me again for a pet his age 10, I would never have the heart to put another dog through that. (Common in labradors). Horrible surgery. My intent was to give the OP some parameters that my vet gave us about my Martha since she has so many issues that would possibly prompt another pet owner to put her to rest. I am sorry to hear about your Annie. Best of luck to you with your new Labradoodles. We have a three dog rule in my house. That way, no body is left behind. Sounds nuts, but that's just us. My poor girl has a granuloma (spelling??) that she licks open when she is stressed. It started when Sonny starting getting terribly sick and that was back in July, 2001. She grieved terribly for him and this granuloma has been with her since his passing - 5 years now. Best regards.

Thank you all so much for the caring support :) Our pets surely do give us so much don't they? You couldn't find a more loyal friend. I am so sorry for your losses and I know we will have to "go that route" one of these days. Annie's Vet is a mobile vet so he comes to our house and she just loves him! When the time comes he will come to the house and put her to sleep in her own cozy bed. Just have to take one day at a time. Thanks again so much for the support!

I decided to call Annie's vet again so on Wed. I took her to him and I gave him a urine specimen and he drew some blood. He examined her thoroughly and said he thought he could feel a mass in her abdomen. Well, he called this afternoon and said her liver enzymes were off the charts! Her count was 6,000 and normal is something like 10-84 something like that. Anyway, I think we will have to put her down, he said we could take x-rays but he said there was no coming back from that high of count. What do you all think? Does panting indicate pain or is the thirst so severe that she pants? I know she has a high pain tolerance but several times during the day she paces and goes to the door and pants also...when I let her out she does not always drink but I don't know when to put her down....Help!

I posted a follow-up to my' 12 year old Annie' but thought to get an answer faster I should change the topic! the vet called today with her blood test results and they are bad!! Her liver test was 6,000 and normal is 10-84 I believe is what he said! He also examined her the other day and thought he could feel something in her abdomen. He told me we could have an x-ray but regardless it looks terminal to him. He will be gone for a few days and will call when he gets back. Now I seem to notice her panting more, is that an indication of pain? I feel awful for her :( Help!

I'm sorry to hear Annie isn't doing well. I can't tell you when to put your pet down, but can only tell you that if she were my dog, and finances aren't a problem, I'd have at least an x-ray done before making such a decision. Is she still eating..........any vomiting?

I hate to hear your vet is gone for a few day since liver failure is not something you wait a few days on to decide how to treat. Is there a vet that covers for your vet when he's out of town? If so, I'd make an appt. tomorrow.
The sites below may help you in questioning the vet and making decisions.

fewhttp://www.canine-epilepsy.com/liverdisease.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: liver disease

"he said there was no coming back from that high a count"

I don't think any vet will *ever* actually open his/her mouth & say, "Please let this poor animal go."

It makes it too easy for a grieving client to later blame the vet.

But I think your vet has just told you the answer.

I'm sorry.

I am blunt with the vet.

I will ask,
"Is she ever going to have a better day than today?"

annz, I am curious to know what her 'gut' looks like in an x-ray and I am sure the vet would have no problem doing one. But like sylviatexas said, I was blunt I thought and asked after the x-ray then what and he said 'well, then you could schedule an exploratory surgery and open her up' and I asked him with that high of count plus her age what are her chances? He said he didn't think she could come back from that high of count so it' s just a matter of time. She is not vomiting and is still interested in eating, sometimes not very much but the incontinence is getting worse again(maybe that mass or liver is pressing on her bladder?)Her biggest symptoms are the thirst and the panting, I don't know if she is in pain, when she pants she looks 'wild eyed', if that makes sense. She paces and then it subsides.... I guess I will wait until Thurs. when the vet gets back to talk to him again, thanks so much your are all so supportive!

My mom's Lab had a mass in her abdomen that was benign. She had it literally for YEARS, like 5 or more. It wasn't until it started to press on her stomach so that Ms. Mike couldn't get a full tummy that she finally had to be put to sleep.

As far and the liver enzymes go- WAIT! With her symptoms- panting, urinating a lot, and her breed and that liver enzyme count it sounds like Cushings disease, which is treatable or at least managable. Maybe you wouldn't want to do that- the treatment can be hard on dogs and it can get expensive, but even so there are alternatives. Lysodren/mitotane is the usual treatment, but you can use ketoconazole (an antifungal drug) to help control symptoms and it's not as hard on them, plus cheaper. The testing for Cushings can be expensive too.

Obviously it's your choice about Annie, if you feel she is up to more testing and treatments, etc. You know her and how she responds to things, and she is getting up there in age. And expense is a real concern. How much you want to put into her is a very personal and difficult decision, and depends on a lot of things.

But I have certainly seen dogs with ALKP over 10,000 that had cushings, got treated, and did wonderfully for years. The mass is of course a complicating factor, but it could be benign.

meghane, I agree there are ALOT of issues here and I would like to think we could give her more quality of life but to me and my dh she seems on the down side of quality of life....at 1 1/2 years of age she was hit by a car and rushed to a large city vet surgery hospital and they saved her; rebuilt her hind leg with titanium and rebuilt her knee, her hip, etc. We went all out and eventually a year or so later she had to have that leg amputated so she is our BIG BUCKS dog!!! WE never regretted any of it for a minute because she was the best dog....she always went grouse hunting with my dh every fall and loved it!!!! Anyway, I think she is starting to be uncomfortable and knows something is wrong.... I can't see putting her through any surgery of any kind but I admit I'm curious about an x-ray. We shall see, thanks a bunch.

Our Springer was 13 when we put her to sleep. She was increasingly incontinent, deaf as a post, and it was time. She was still fully mobile, but she slept a lot and leaked a lot.

She spent a lovely morning with Daddy on her last day. She had a treat at the local convenience store. She went to the beach and tottered around in the surf. She went to the vet. and was happy to see him. End of story.

The vet. told the helpmeet he wished more people were willing to make the call before "crunch time". She had a great life and was loved and cradled at the very end.

It's a tough thing to do. Believe me, I know.

Why do you not know if she's in pain?

Ask the vet straight out:
tell him she pants & looks wild-eyed, & ask him why.

Dang vets...

I hope posting this is the right thing to do--that it might help with your decision. I lost my girl last week and this poem was a comfort.

If It Should Be.....

If it should be I grow frail and weak
And pain prevents my peaceful sleep,
Then you must do what must be done
When this last battle can't be won.

You will be sad, I understand.
Selfishness might stay your hand.
But on this day, more than the rest,
Your love and friendship take the test.

We've had so many happy years
That what's to come can hold no fears.
You'd not want me to suffer. So,
When the time comes, please let me go.

Take me where my needs they'll tend.
Only -- stay with me until the end.
Hold me firm and speak to me.
Until my eyes no longer see.

I know, in time, you, too, will see
It is a kindness that you do for me.
Although my tail its last has waved,
From pain and suffering I've been saved.

Do not grieve it should be you
Who must decide this thing to do.
We've been so close, we two, these years......
Don't let your heart hold any tears.

Author Unknown

megansgram,
Thank you so much, that is so sweet of you and a very timely poem. We have made our decision to put any to sleep when her vet returns next week. So we will enjoy the time we have left and give her lots of loves. We are having beautiful weather right now and she so enjoys laying out in the yard in the warm sunshine. Thank you all so much for the support!

My thoughts will be with you and your Annie.

God bless you and Annie. Enjoy your time with her.

I know that Chelsea panted all the time that last week. I do believe tht it is a sign of pain. We had Chelsea's pawprint made at the place where they did the cremation. It is in a picture double picture frame with one of our last pictures of her. She never liked having her picture taken.

I think someone mentioned in another post about the Rainbow Bridge website. If you haven't visited it, it is comforting.