Well, the party line answer is clearly both, and obviously for me too, there is enjoyment of the process and the results. I think that must be true for any gardener who is involved in the making of their own garden space and who isn't getting paid for doing it. But I find that as I get older and farther down the garden path, I would like to enjoy the results more, and I find that the process itself can sometimes be tedious, expensive, require too much patience, and overwhelming. So I am going to be brutally honest here -- while I enjoy the work of gardening to some extent, if I could hire more people to do more things for me and just enjoy the results myself, I would do it. The problem is that, for the most part, if you are a real plant geek like I am (and a whole lot of others who responded above), you can't really hire people to arrange plants for you in the way you want them. So there is a certain amount that you have to be involved with yourself. Being involved again in the creation of a new garden, and having left a mature one, I have to say that so far, I enjoyed the mature one more. The last few years I spent there I did work a lot in the garden still, of course, but the proportion of time spent just enjoying the garden was greater. That doesn't mean that I was sitting when I enjoyed it. It doesn't mean that I didn't pull a weed or two when I walked with a glass of wine in the evening. But after 20 years working on that space, the garden felt "finished" to a great extent. That doesn't mean that there would never be anything new. But the garden had a certain cohesiveness that is certainly lacking in my new garden. It also had as much seasonal interest as I could pack into 2/3 acre in my rotten climate. So, weather permitting, the garden always had moments of great beauty and enjoyment for me. But then again, I know that one of the reasons the garden meant so much to me is that I had spent 20 years making it. I had watched the trees, shrubs, perennials that I had planted get moved from one place to anohter (NAY he says, "I MOVED them from one place to another"...) until they finally found a place that they (and I) liked. Still garden making takes patience, and it is hard in the early stages not to want more results, with less work at garden making. I think that's one reason why, relatively speaking, I did not take many pictures of the new garden this year -- in the last year I was at my old place I took over a thousand, this year less than 100. A reflection that the garden was more about process than results, so far. One of the greatest times of garden enjoyment I ever remember in my old garden was after a big garden tour. The weeds were all pulled, the plants all relatively pristine (it was mid-June), the crowds were gone, my family and the dog were gone, the walks and drives all neat and clean, no cars or other distractions to be seen. Then I walked through and enjoyed my own garden, for a couple of hours, nobody but me and the hummingbirds and butterflies. One of the best times of garden enjoyment I ever had, along with very early foggy mornings and late summer evenings. Give me more of those, and less back-breaking work, any day....

Since it's you I'll answer in this forum because I know you want experience and not just "approved" answers. Are you the one that insisted on fermenting the apples with natural yeasts? If so, you're "lucky", you only have the stuff that makes alcohol in your cider. If I was assured of only the natural yeasts and not the bacteria I'd use the natural yeasts too. If you pasteurized or used camden tablets and threw bought yeast that is why you were lucky, you killed the bacteria. You now need to throw the bacteria that turns the alcohol into vinegar. You should be able to find it by searching homebrew stores for "mother of vinegar". Alternately you can throw some unfiltered unpasteurized natural vinegar from a healthfood store and grow your own culture to inoculate all your bottles with. If you are the one that tempted fate and used the natural yeasts you probably want to tempt it again and use the natural bacteria. In that case expose them to air and hope for the best, but it didn't work the first time so I wouldn't hold your breath. Know you would be taking a crap shoot with the correct bacteria entering and being the one to grow the fastest (a dog in the yard and feeding ecoli to little kids is why I pasteurize my cider). By expose it to air I mean really expose it to the air, put it back in the vat you pressed into and whisk it. This will drive off the CO2 and since you said it was carbonated it may be helpful no matter what method you use, if I'm remembering right the carbonation serves a purpose other than tickling the nose. If I didn't want to expose it to random acts of bacteria I'd siphon it from bottle to bottle letting it slosh before throwing the mother of vinegar. You can test and adjust your own acidity pretty cheaply (again from the homebrew stores). If they don't go by the simple "acid test kit" it would be a "titration kit". You're really lucky you didn't have blow ups if you had those sealed the whole time. The amount of potential alcohol it takes to blow a beer or wine bottle designed to take pressure is not that much and if you plugged fresh cider bottles that tends to finish around 5%, that's a lot of gas. The bubbler tops are not that expensive, you can even use balloons and burp them (and if you want to know some other ways just ask me in the other forum where I'm sure to see it). I wouldn't doubt if now that you've taken the pressure off some of them start fermenting again. BTW, my apple wine came out pretty good. I don't normally drink either but 1 gallon is not going to be anywhere near enough. It has to be 12%-15% and I can't taste the alcohol (I can normally taste any alcohol). For the cheap yeast I used the yeast flavor isn't so bad either. I'm hardening at least 5 gallons this year, probably 10 gallons if I get enough apples.

princesspez - Whee - this is a really oldie but goodie post. In re-reading it, I have confirmed what the writers have offered. Perhaps at the time of reading them, I was too busy "doing my own thing" to really appreciate the great advice. However, your recent post mentions "adding more wine" throughout the year. Personally, I wouldn't disturb the wine/mother combination until it has reached it's final fermentation. It may take several months - and when it tastes as you like, remove the "mother" and start another batch if you like. Strain out the mother and save it - or start anew. Then I bring the completed vinegar to a boil to stop any tail ends of "mother" left that would continue fermentation, and store in a capped bottle for present use. You could measure the acidity with a meter if you like, and if you intend to use it for pickling - it should be OK as long as it is 5% - as mine turned out to be). I hope to do some string beans this next summer with white wine vinegar - and perhaps now that I'm thinking about it, should start the wine "cooking" now. The instructions on the commercial "mother" is as follows: Use a clean 1 gallon jar or bottle. Add to the culture: 16 oz. of wine. 8 oz. of water. Air is necessary for conversion of alcohol to vinegar so plug opening with cloth - I used cheesecloth and a rubber band. Keep in 80 to 90 degree temperatures. Complete conversion is possible in 3 months. Use the finished vinegar as a culture to make more vinegar using the same proportions. The instructions don't continue to include stopping the fermentation - but I remember inquiring at that time and so did the boil step as well. About sourdough bread - since my posting, bread making has improved somewhat. For what it's worth, I have added potato water (heating to 80 degrees and adding yeast and sugar for proofing), in the recipe I'm using in place of the water called for. It seems to give my bread a lighter consistency. One other "helpful hint - from ???) is to allow the bread to rise slowly, acquiring more air. I put the dough in my microwave - no heat) until it rises, rather than a warmer room temperature might be. Also brush the bread with water both before rising and before baking - nice crusty crusts. I add back water and flour to the culture and store in the fridge. Take it out the day before, and let it "do its thing" all day - smells great. My son (my critique person) really liked the last bakings. He puts grated roman cheese on it - and toasts. Anyway, this is my upate. Just my 2 c's. Bejay

If you want low alcohol, you need to begin the ferment when the hydrometer reads 1.07. Most wines start at 1.09, and if you go over 1.15, your wine will be like rocket fuel.