Well, it really depends on the dogs involved and why your current dog is displaying the destructive behavior. A second dog may learn destructive behavior from your first dog, thus doubling the destruction when you are gone. OR the second dog may set a much better example and keep your destructive dog's mind off of destruction in your absence. It could go either way.

I've never crated a dog in my life, though there have been a few times when I REALLY wished I had crate trained certain canine kids. Tasha was a terror when she was an adolescent, but only on the rare occasions when I left the property. There's still a gaping, ragged hole in the carpet that she tore apart on one such occasion, and she had LOTS of canine companionship at the time.

I think it's great for dogs to have companions - mine always have - but it won't necessarily cure her destructive behavior. If she's under 2 yrs old, it may just be a matter of waiting for her to mature out of her destructive adolescence. However, you may be able to curb or reduce the destruction now by giving your girl a LOT more exercise and leaving plenty of chew toys for her when you leave. Treat-stuffed, frozen kongs are a great distraction. You might also try hiding kibbles or small treats around the house for her to seek out in your absence.

Laurie

In general, I don't think it's a good idea to introduce a new dog (and new problems) into a situation where the current dog has issues that need to be managed. Another dog won't cure separation anxiety, and it won't 'fix' any destructive tendencies in your dog whatever the cause. If you don't want to crate, why not baby gate your dog in one room to minimize the damage? Do you know WHY your dog is destructive? That's the key to solving this. But in the meantime, kick up the exercise and introduce distractions and mental exercise.

Denise, I agree with Cynthia that introducing a new dog to a dog that has behavioral issues is just going to make the problem worse. Once your dog has conquored her destructive behavior, then consider getting a second dog.

In my experience dogs are destructive for three reasons: [1] they are bored [2] they are anxious or [3] they are "teething" and do not understand what they are allowed to chew. I think for you to get help on this board you will have to let us know which one of these is driving her behavior.

My own dog's destructive behavior was driven by boredom. My solution was to ramp up the mileage we were walking each morning and evening (2 miles per walk) AND provide him with 2-3 days a week of day care alternating with 2-3 days a week of chasing ball/frisbee in the back yard. Young dogs have alot of energy and they need that much activity.

But boredom may not be your dog's problem. If it is separation anxiety, I'd say get yourself a trainer. If it is teething, you will need to provide her with appropriate chew toys to help her over that hurdle.

Keep us posted!!

Because dogs are pack animals, it can be good for them to have companions. But I agree with the other posters, that I would not introduce a new dog into a situation that has not been resolved. You could double your destruction.

A destructive dog should not be allowed free and unsupervised roam of the house. Its quite simple. If you continue to give your dog unsupervised free roam then you will continue to have problems.

If you don't want to use a crate there are other options. Fencing, enclosing the dog in one safe room, electronic collars with boundaries can be set up for use indoors.

Though my preference is a crate...its simple, safe and my dogs love their crate.

I generally have two dogs---I believe in the pack theory as well. We never had just one horse for the same reason.

Our previous Lab/chow mix never chewed or destroyed anything---even as a pup. He and the chihuahua mix were the best house/outside dogs we ever had.

I tried adopting a prison program dog---Lab/chow mix that was 3 years old---he ate over $400 worth of things---books, sofa, etc. In a week. I had no way to get a crate at the time so I put him in a room---with the normal crate stuff---bed, toys. He literally ate/clawed a hole in the door. Plus he was uncontrollable off leash.

Fast forward to the current two---Max is a rescued Rott/Ger. Shepherd mix---once even more uncontrollable than the dog in the previous example. The difference is I had the time to work with him. He was a crate trained dog---but the training was not proper---every time he acted up and got in trouble, he headed for the crate. Therefore, I weaned him from the crate----as it never helped the bad behavior. He never chewed anything.

The second dog is a Lab/pit mix---and he was a chewing machine. Labs chew a lot anyway---Louie would eat an 8" long rawhide bone in less than half an hour---leaving one knotted end. He ate several books---when I was careless and left them reachable. He ate the duster off the couch and one pair of shoes. As he got older---and I exercised him more---the chewing tapered off. We still put things up, as the two are alone for up to 5 hours a time---and a bored dog will chew.

So, in this case, there could be several reasons for the chewing---boredom, frustration, or loneliness. Try taking the dog for at least a 20 minute walk before you leave for a long absence. And another 20 minutes within an hour or so of returning home.

(In Louie's case, I often throw his flattened soccer ball for 20 minutes---he gets a lot of exercise, I get the pack leader training---making him give up the ball and at times playing tug of war intermittantly.)

I think your "GUT FEELING" is the way to go. Maybe a call to a GS rescue might be in order. Take your new charge out for a walk with your current pup and make certain they get along in neutral territory. I wanna see pics or at least hear about new addition when you get one. You may give your current furbaby a nice long walkies before you leave the house, provide a treat filled kong and some other toys. Good luck with whatever you choose. I too never have crated my dog, I feel a dog was mean to move and as a result I take my dog out for at least 2 45 minute walks a day. On hot days, I go to the local creek and at night I let my dog run around at the local off leash park - usually after 10pm when nobody is around.

This is my first time on the pet forum. (I'm a real active member of a couple other GW forums...) We've had German Shepherds for about 20 years - one at a time. We lost Remo, who was almost 9, to cancer last Nov. and shortly after (I was SO terribly heartsick, I needed a new baby...) shortly thereafter. She's a love-muffin, but has also been a terror at times (when we're gone...) So here's my question...
What's the consensus about one dog verses more than one dog? Does having more than one abate the destruction? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>NO NO NO I'm not asking for a lecture on crating my dog, so please don't go there! I know (intellectually) that this would be the ideal circumstance. But it just doesn't feel right to me, so please - just answers from those who let their pets "free range" in their homes.

I've been trying to convince my hubby for years that one more dog would probably minimize damage >>>>>>>>>>>YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG ON THIS ONE becuase they are, after all, pack animals, and need companionship>>>>>>>>CORRECT ABOUT THE PACK . When we're not here, our lone dog goes a little nuts...>>>>>>>>THIS IS YOUR FAULT NOT THE DOGS. ANYTHING MISCHIEF DOG GETS INTO IS YOUR FAULT,,,,GOT THAT,,,,YOUR FAULT.........

Thanks for your feedback, folks. There's no group of people better than pet-people!!>>>>>>>>>>NO CRATE LECTURE HERE>>>>>>>>>>YOU ARE JUST PLAIN WRONG ON HOW YOU THINK ABOUT HAVING A DOG AND SHOULD RECONSIDER HAVING ONE.

SG

Denise in Omaha

Thanks for all the responses - you've all given me a lot to think about. SG, I think you need a good lesson in diplomacy. I can see why you don't allow yourself to be responded to privately through this site because my response to YOU would be equally as rude in private, but I won't do that here... If you take dogs away from everyone who has had to deal with destructive behaviour, guess what? We'd be euthanizing dogs at an even higher rate than we are now! But congratulations on being a pet owner SO above the rest of us that you can be so judgemental. Now, back to my gardening forums! (As I said, thanks to all the others who were kind in their responses..)

Denise in Omaha

I think SG was way out of line.

Denise, you've had german shepherds for 20 years, so I think you probably know quite a bit about training and raising dogs.

Not everyone is as rude as SG. And SG is normally not that rude, she must be having a bad day.

I've had my rude posts now again, I try to be positive more often than not. (Even though some posts make me cringe ... this one did not.)

I was wondering if someone got a hold of SG's user name. That was really an unproductive and unkind response and not typical. There was zero advice, just judgement, which was completely out of line with the original question.

Yeah, something seems off to me, with SG, too.

As for destruction...our little girl was destructive. It took a ton of work, and a baby gate, and a crate. I can safely say now if she weren't so attatched to her crate, we could probably take it away no problem.

However, initially had we not started with one from day one, I don't know if we'd have needed it either.

Our big has never spent one day of his life in a crate. We do confine him to one room or area of the house when we're gone just because he can on ocassion (read, once in a blue moon) decide to get into something when he's feeling naughty. Also, he likes to torment little girl in her crate when he's free and she isn't.

I think if you were able to find another dog who you know isn't destructive and is already well trained, it may be a good idea to get another dog. However in order for that to even work, you'd need to make sure the dogs get along and enjoy spending lots of time together. If they could care less about eachothers presence, your little destructo won't pick up on the other dogs behaviour.

Also you need to make sure the new dog isn't the type to pick up on others behaviour. You'd need more of an alpha, I would think. While my little girl is GREAT now, any signifigant amount of time spent around a dog that isn't well trained or well behaved, she will pick up on the behaviours of that dog, so she is not a dog to use to help train another.

Thankfully big guy set a good example and it wasn't long until she took to his footsteps after getting out of the "I'm a puppy and I'll chew everything in sight" stage.

All that said, it might be more effort than it's worth at this point to try and find another dog that will help instead of hinder the process with the one you have already. All the time and energy it would take, could be spent intensely trying to get your current dog's behaviour corrected.

Lots of offering appropriate chew toys, stuffed kongs, bully sticks, anything time consuming to chew, several in different rooms(if you don't want to even baby gate). And a ton of exersize before he's to be left alone. Poop him out, give him something constructive and yummy to chew and he'll be less likely to find something of yours to chew.

Denise in Omaha you wanted input but not to be told you are completely wrong.

How are you going to feel if your pups chew through an electrical wire while you are not watching and blasts their teeth out???? Are you then going to say that crating them "didn't feel right". Would you leave an infant unsupervised and out of a cradle because enclosing them in safety "didn't feel right".

I see that lots of people want to beat me up about this issue. Fine, I can take it. This was a completely stupid question, and yes I was completely stupid and wrong for answering it. I admit it. The Divine has entrusted you with the safety of one of His/Her creatures. Are you going to be able to leave the pup with complete peace of mind knowing of it's safety??? I hope so.

SG

P.S. Crating should never be looked at as a "permanent" situation. After about 8-9 months, the dog should be starting a weening process away from it. Conventional professional wisdom that I doubt applies here.

denise, deepest sympathy on the loss of your dog.

In my experience, no, more dogs do not not equal less destruction. Unhappily, the dog you have problems with now will continue to do what he is doing. There is also some possibility the new dog will learn the bad behavior from the original dog.

It sounds like your rational is to take the problem dog's mind off bad behavior and give it a playmate to entertain it. The dog may indeed appreciate a companion, but it's unlikely to forget the reason it misbehaved. Whatever triggers the behavior will most likely continue to trigger it. It usually takes either a long period of adjustment or a fairly serious change to break a habit. Not what you wanted to hear I know, sorry. Good luck, what ever you decide to do.

Denise, how old is your new girl, and how long have you had her? What sort of an environment did she come from, and how was she handled there in terms of human absence?

I also cannot believe SG's rude behavior. You have lost a dog that you dearly love, and are asking if more than one dog would be an answer. Yes, I think it could be helpful, but you might want to get a professional to help you make a choice.

You do not say what the destructive behavior is, but Dog Training School might be an answer. Actually you could take two dogs and put them in different classes.

If the dog chews, you block the wires including the air conditioning wires. If it does other puppy things, you address the problem. If the dog is lonely, of course get another, just watch out, and do it in a thoughtful careful manner.

On what gardening forums do you post? I post on the Rose ones.

SAmmy

More gracious and kind words! Thank you everyone! Lucy will be a year old in October, and we got her at almost 8 weeks old. I didn't mean to imply that she's a bad girl so much now, 'cuz she's not for the most part. When she was teething, she chewed on our furniture and pulled up carpet when we were gone. It was old furniture that we'd planned to replace, but I know that's NOT the point! I think she's past all that, and I don't think what she's experiencing is seperation anxiety. She seems to do fine with short (1-2 hour) periods alone. It's the longer stretches where she starts to get into things. We confine her to the living room and dining room areas and she loves to check out what's on the table. We're pretty careful about clearing it off of anything she can chew up. But she seems to have a particular fascination with the pepper shaker - not the salt, just the pepper! We have to go looking for it at dinner time sometimes! Silly girl!

I think it's been different with Lucy than our others because my husband was laid off work when we got her, so he was home all the time in the beginning. Then within about 3 weeks, he suddenly started going through some serious health issues that put him in and out of the hospital for the next 3 months, so I was completely stressed trying to run between hospital and home and work (thank goodness I'm self-employed and it was our slow time at work...) I was dealing with a new puppy by myself, and then dealing with my husband's pain issues when he was at home. I know dogs are very sensitive to our moods and stress levels, and of course because he wasn't here much, she bonded with me like glue. So I have this constant shadow at home (which is ok, mind you, because I love her to death...) even though my husband is home almost all the time now (as he hasn't gone back to work, yet...)

Anyway, I'm sure that's all more information than you all wanted, but circumstances do come into play when it comes to how our kids (fur and regular) behave. Lucy is, for the most part, a pretty good girl these days. My biggest complaint right now is that she's all over me when I get home, mostly after along day (I work 12+ hours on Saturdays..), wanting to jump on me. (Let me interject here that she's not ALONE 12 hours - my husband is home...) I've tried all the usual stuff to get her to stop - turning my back on her (she just jumps on my back), ignoring her (she won't have ANY of that!!), leaning over her to get her to sit (which works sometimes, but other times she just slams into my face with her face as she starts to jump as I lean over!) - I'm thinking of gettting one of those no-jump harnasses, but I wonder if that will just keep her from jumping rather than training her NOT to jump. And it would depend on my husband putting it on her before I came home... Our other two shepherds had bad hips, so jumping wasn't a big problem. I have a feeling ol' Lucy has good hips...

Sammy, I mostly hang out on the Hoya forum, and the Cactus and Succulent forum is my 2nd favorite. You must have the "knack" if you can grow roses! I've tried them and have never had any success, so outside, I grow pretty hardy stuff.

Thanks again, everyone, and if you have suggestions about the jumping thing, I'm all ears!

Denise in Omaha

P.S. This is Lucy a couple months ago, posing with her stuffed kitty. I'm amazed at what her jaws can do to SOME stuff, but she has several stuffed animal toys that she's had since day one and though a little frazzled, they're still intact!
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Lucy is a pretty girl. I have a white German Shepherd that is almost seven months old. I do like for my dogs to have dog friends but I like them to be a little apart in age so that housetaining and every thing else is completed with the first and they are well on their way to good manners before bring in the second dog.

Lisa

Your dog is beautiful.
When I went through problems of high energy and jumping a few months ago, my Vet as well as others here, suggested Dog Training School. We went, and I am very pleased that we did. It did not stop the jumping, and I know now that the jumping will continue, but I have learned to side step it. Many dogs get so excited to see us that they simply want to hug and jump on us. I received a great deal of advice here and on some other forums, and I know my dog will jump unless we have been together, and I am ready for him. But after I come home from work, he is just too excited.

To stop the jumping I can cage him, I can do many physical things that I won't do, I can stick up my knee and hurt him, I have many options. He will more than likely use his energy to jump unless I am wise.

He did fail Dog Obedience, I must say. The leader said that his heels were better than ever. He was probably better than the other dogs with the walking. He followed me and did everything he was supposed to do except for the "Down stay", he was to remain down for 3 minutes, and he remained down for about 20 seconds. We practiced, but he wanted to play, and did not want to remain down. (During the test, there are no second chances.) For the "sit stay", he also got up after about 20 second, and needed to remain in the sit position for just one minute. He almost always did the sit stay in our classes, but not during the test.

But the reinforcement I got from the class was worth so much that I really recommend it for you.

I also recommend another dog. We never needed but about 3 days or so to train our dogs because we have a doggie door, and they followed the other dog. I will not put my dog in a crate except I do want one for the van, but I used sections of hardware cloth, to close off areas under the bed, and where there were wires.

I just checked your last message, and you asked about the jumping. If, when you enter, you can teach her to sit, then just as you approach step to her side, and catch her when she jumps, that might help. My dog will sit for about 2 seconds, then continue to run towards me, but that 2 second sit will slow him down. Then just at the right moment, I turn sideways often taking a big step with my left foot, and catch him.

I hope this helps, and I hope your life gets to be more normal before very long.

Sammy

Destructive behavior is about frustration and insecurity, MOST of the time.

We've never crated our dogs. Frankly, we were too lazy and unwilling to tolerate the whining/fussing. And we never had any destructive behavior until our most recent dog, Rex (from the "pound" and an adult).

He managed to locate the slippers I forgot to put away for about 3 mos. running. Damned if he didn't chew the left one only, lol. I was unable to put the remaining ones together to make a pair. :) He was about 1 1/2 yrs. old and had been surrendered at least twice and had been through 3 shelters. How could you blame him for being insecure?

Solution? PUT THE SLIPPERS AWAY (duh)! sequester the dog from "attractive nuisances"... save him from himself. And get busy with obedience work immediately!

Dogs are social animals. They're hard wired to respond to hierarchy. And obedience training taps right into that innate current in all dogs. Above all else in this world, a dog wants to "fit in" and be part of the FUN. Dogs are all about having fun; and that's how you train them easily and effectively. Start with obedience work and when you see changes behaviorally in your dog... think about another one.

"Rescues" can be tough. There's so much you DON'T KNOW about them. Work to establish a bond with the dog you now have through obedience work first.

I have a soft spot for Shepherds, Rotties, and Dobies... they're so smart (there's a reason they're used as diversely as they are!!). Your dog is beautiful!

Obedience training... your new "best friend". Notice the leg in the following shot...

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There was no reason for you to be shouted at like that. We all do what we can and people shouldn't be so judgemental. When I can't take my dogs with me and don't want to leave them in the house I have a 12x12 box stall with a 12x24 chainlink run. I would never say if you don't have this you shouldn't have a dog. This is what works for me. You have a beautiful dog.

In my life and profession I have seen people do terrible things to each other and to other species, and I have learned a couple of things I would like to share which I think may have bearing here. Take what you feel is something you can use and just blow off the rest. When I read these forums, I keep in mind that many of the posters here are people who love animals, I also know there are some posters who have never had an animal and are unfamilar with how to effectively communicate with them to get the besst results. I recognize that people who are having problems are posting here to get assistance from those of us who have had dogs since day one and have some sneaky tricks on how to get a stubborn, scared or rambunctious fido to do what we want. This is a huge step for many people, not only are they recognizing that there is a problem but they are seeking a positive solution. I try and keep this in my mind when I answer these postings. Blaming someone will just chase them off, and in my opinion we are not there at the place where the animal is being raised and we dont know the full story, we get little bits of the story which are the crux of the problem. I believe anyone who is taking the time to research how to deal with a problem with an animal deserves a helpful answer and that to judge and blame is none productive. I also know we are sometimes victims of abuse ourselves, and just like soe of the pups on this forum, we never get over it, no matter how much someone loves us. Somes that abuse may come out in our daily dealings with others, especially if we feel passionate about the subject matter. In many cases we have heard too much about people like Michael Vick abusing and neglecting animals for whatever reason, those stories might bring up issues for those of us who have not been treated fairly in life. In cases like that the passion is persona, and the inital issues may get lost in that passion because it brings up so much from a persons past. I have learned time and time and time again to consider the person I am dealing with and what their initial intent is. I think we all care, and I think we are all helping each other here, and I love this forum because I know we help animals and their owners feel better and get along better (in most cases) - lets all try and give each other a break, these are trying times. And lets leave the judgement to those in the law - legal, spirital or otherwise. Okay, I will get off my soap box now, call the Chihuahuas in from sunning themselves in the backyard, and feed the Mastiff mix for the 3rd time today. I wish you all well and hope the OP posts again about whatever decision she came to, because above all, Im hell curious about the outcome. The end love me.

Exercise, discipline, and, love.

Seems simple, but really requires a great deal of time and commitment. Trust me. I hate dogs... really prefer cats.

BUT... I have a dog and he NEEDS me and I need him.

and I think he's just the best thing the canine world has ever produced...

Lisa, Lucy's mama is a white shepherd as were her three male siblings. They were beautiful and I would have taken one of those, too, but it's been our experience with our last two that shepherds tend to have some pretty serious health problems. (Our last one was from a very reputable breeder over 1500 miles away yet over the course of his almost 9 years cost us more than $11,000 in vet bills...) So if we get a 2nd, it'll be a smallish mutt, one that will be more likely not to have any inbred health issues...

Sammy, Lucy has been pretty easy to train. She sits consistently, even stays for a bit (at her age, that's a tough one...), goes down if you say it with enough authority - she's smart as a whip, but her excitement gets the better of her when I get home. I do the "sit" thing to slow her down, too, and I've learned to walk straight to a dining room chair and pull it out and she'll climb up on it so she's more "eye to eye" with me and can give me what she sees as a proper greeting (a few kisses and a little paw holding...) I'm sure, like our others, she'll settle down with age. But you're right - doggie classes are a HUGE plus. We went through them with both our others at a fairly early age, and even started in them with Lucy, but it was a little too stenuous for my husband, and with all that was falling on my shoulders, I didn't have the time or patience to "do the work" to get her trained. Then we got into the busy season at my work (I'm in the wedding biz...) Fortunately, you CAN teach an "old" dog new tricks, so we'll keep working on it!

Love your doggy, Chelone! Very pretty markings. I had to laugh at your slipper story. This summer, Lucy has managed to get hold of several flip-flops, and I took to buying the same style, but she, too, chews only the left! Maybe we have more scent glands in our left feet?! Like you, I finally got good at putting them away (aren't we brilliant?) And I was a cat person, too, before I married my husband. Well, of course, I still am... But he insisted on getting a dog and, oh my God, I found out how much work they are compared to cats! (Put down a big dish of food and a fresh litter box and you can leave a cat alone for a week!) But I fell in love with how much fun they are. And when you're feeling bummed, there's nothing that will bring you out of the funk faster than those eyes that make you feel like the center of the universe, and that demeanor that tells you they want nothing more than to please you...

Mazer, I'm trying to imagine Chihuahuas and a Mastiff in the same family! What a riot that must be to see! I have a friend with a Mastiff and they're big lovers, so I can imagine your Mastiff is gentle with the wee ones. And thanks for the moral support - you make some very valid points. I'm just heartsick over this whole thing with Michael Vick and think it must take a real sicko to fight dogs, let alone do some of the horrendous things they've revealed in the media. I don't buy his public groveling gesture myself...

Denise in Omaha