help with choosing water softener?

11 years ago

I've been lurking on this forum for about a year, trying to learn about water softener systems. We had our water analyzed, and these are the results:

Nitrogen, Nitrate (as N): 0.86 mg/L

Dissolved metals:
Calcium 49 mg/L
Magnesium 5.6 mg/L

Hardness (as CaCO3): 140 mg/L

pH 7.85

Alkalinity:
Bicarbonate (as CaCO3) 160 mg/L CaCO3

Total dissolved solids: 221 mg/L

Sulphur: 6.7 mg/L

Everything else (iron, manganese, turbidity, VOCs) is below detectable limits.

We have had a recommendation for the local Kinetico dealer who quoted us $2795 + tax for a 2040S, including installation.

We are on city water, we are a household of 2 adults, occasional visitors. We have 3 bathrooms but never more than 1 in use at a time, 1 kitchen, 1 laundry. Our average monthly use is estimated at 3000-4000 gals, not including irrigation which we plan to bypass. Water comes in at 65 psi in 1" piping.

Based on the water analysis, we are thinking of a carbon filter for kitchen (faucet and fridge) to remove the chlorine in the water which is high at times.

What would you knowledgeable people recommend for softening, what makes/models, what size etc.? Are we better off just signing with Kinetico? From everything I've heard they are solidly reliable but expensive. Is this cost justified, or would we be better off with Fleck or some other manufacturer, and finding a plumber to do installation? My husband is handy and capable of doing simple maintenance and repair, but he doesn't want to take on installation of something he doesn't understand.

Thank you for your help,
Cheryl

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Comments (2)

User
11 years ago
It's difficult to determine what you will be "better off" doing - you will have to weigh cost, convenience, expertise, support, etc. for yourself. I can provide some pros and cons to assist you.

Your situation is actually a bit difficult to determine the correct size softener if you go with a traditional single-tank softener. Purely based on water usage and hardness, you could get away with a 0.5 cubic ft softener. However, flow rate through such a small softener would be severely limited. The size of your house would dictate about a 1.25 cubic ft softener, but that would cause you to regen every 20 days and risk possible media compaction or regen more often and use a lot more salt. So you see the dilemma. A 0.75 cubic ft softener is a reasonable compromise

The Kinetico, on the other hand, is a packed bed softener, allowing much higher flow rates through a much smaller softener. It does not suffer from the drawbacks of a traditional softener for your specific situation. The price is high, but it may be a bit easier to accept the price if you think of this as a 20-year purchase. $140/year, If you decide to go with a standard softener, call around to local dealers first and see what they can do for you. You want your softener to meet the following criteria:
- High quality American or German made resin. This will provide a tight size distribution for optimal flow within the resin bed.
- When you have CITY WATER: 10% crosslinked resin. The oxidizers that city water treatment plants use, such as chlorine or chloramine, are harmful to softener resins. Higher crosslinking will resist chemical attack longer.
- Top basket. This serves two purposes. It sets up a proper water distribution during normal operation and prevents resin loss during backwash.
- Gravel underbed. The gravel underbed is there to set up proper flow patterns, improve backwash and prevent channeling. Many softener sales companies like to leave this out or sell softeners with a vortex system instead. Vortex systems weigh less than gravel so they cost less to ship. In addition, they are a more expensive item that adds profit for the softener salesperson, but provides no additional benefit to the homeowner . It simply adds another piece of equipment that can break. .
- Fleck or Clack valves. These set the industry standard. Be aware that you will not be able to purchase Clack valves online. This is not a problem if you purchase locally.
- Noryl bypass. Most softeners are available with either Noryl or stainless bypass valves. Both are good valves, but the noryl tends to be more reliable when not used for long periods of time.
- Install the softener with a three-valve bypass. This will make it so much easier if you ever need to remove the softener for repairs or wish to take it with you when you move. Preferably, use full-port, quarter-turn valves.
jadeite
Original Author
11 years ago
AIW - thank you for your advice. My husband favors Kinetico because of their solid warranty and good reputation in our area. I'll look into alternatives just to be sure we make an informed decision.

Cheryl
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Thank you for the extra info. I'm not seeing any big issues with your water quality, the conductivity, and chlorine levels will affect my recommendation. First, you should be looking for a 2.0 cubic ft softener. Once in place it should be regenerated with 8 lb salt per cubic ft of resin. Better salt efficiency could be achieved regenerating with a lower salt dose, but you conductivity is high enough that a lower salt dose would result in enough hardness bleed that you would notice it. A 2.0 cubic ft softener will regen every 10 days with 4 people in the house, and every 8 days with 5 people in the house. As you speak to vendors, you want to specify the following for an industry standard softener. If you are looking for a non-electronic softener, Kinetico offers the more reliable options at a premium price (and you would need to deal with a local Kinetico rep). Any decent softener vendor should be able to provide the following: High quality American or German made resin. This will provide a tight size distribution for optimal flow within the resin Since you have CITY WATER: 10% crosslinked resin. The oxidizers that city water treatment plants use, such as chlorine or chloramine, are harmful to softener resins. Higher crosslinking will resist chemical attack longer. Top basket. This serves two purposes. It sets up a proper water distribution during normal operation and prevents resin loss during backwash. Gravel underbed. The gravel underbed is there to set up proper flow patterns, improve backwash, keep the bottom basket in place, prevent basket failure, and prevent channeling. Many softener sales companies like to leave this out or sell softeners with a vortex system instead. Vortex systems weigh less than gravel so they cost less to ship. In addition, they are a more expensive item that adds profit for the softener salesperson, but provides no additional benefit to the homeowner . It simply adds another piece of equipment that can break. Fleck or Clack valves. These set the industry standard. Be aware that you will not be able to purchase Clack valves online. This is not a problem if you purchase locally. If you go with a Fleck valve, it should be the 7000sxt. A 5600sxt has 3/4" internal porting and is too small for the tank you will need. The valve should regen based on water usage, not time. Noryl bypass. Most softeners are available with either Noryl or stainless bypass valves. Both are good valves, but the noryl tends to be more reliable when not used for long periods of time. Install the softener with a three-valve bypass. This will make it so much easier if you ever need to remove the softener for repairs or wish to take it with you when you move. Use full-port, quarter-turn valves. I would speak to local water treatment pros first to see what they can offer. For most people, a local pro is a good idea. If you intend to DIY, be cognizant of the fact that the buck stops with...
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In addition to plumbing I have also been doing commercial refrigeration & HVAC for over 35 years so I like to believe my soldering & brazing skills are at least slightly better than the average homeowner/DIY'er and based upon the problems involved I would not attempt to put a tee on that bipass line. First off, it would be nearly impossible to get all the water out of those lines, yet if even a few drops of water are present you will not be able to heat the pipe enough to break one of those solder joints. Second, both the hardwater line & the conditioned line are very rigid so even if you could melt the solder you could not get enough movement in the pipe to separate the joint, but you could introduce some very interesting leaks that would be a nightmare to fix. Fortunately there is a much simpler solution. The bottom line in the first picture is the hardwater line. If you were to install a tee about 1/2 way between where that paper tag is hanging and the cabinet wall it would be fairly easy. (see attached illustration). Begin by turning the main water shutoff in the cabinet off and turning both of those valves to the off position then mark the fitting allowance on the pipe so you know how much pipe to cut out while making sure there is sufficient pipe to fit in the Tee. There is enough space between those two lines that you can get a Mini- pipe cutter in there. Next, using a strip of emery cloth, clean the ends of the pipe. You could solder a tee in there but given that you are not skilled at soldering, I would strongly suggest you use a sharkbite 3/4x3/4x1/2" reducing Tee. Note, in the illustration I showed the tee pointing down but if you need to go up you can also do that from this point. To install the tee the hardwater riser in the cabinet can be sprung back about an inch to give you clearance to get the tee in. (You may need a helper to reach the pipe in the cabinet). I would then solder a short piece of 1/2" pipe into a valve and once its cool insert that pipe into the side opening of the tee. At this point you could turn this valve off and open the mainwater shutoff valve and the water conditioner feed valve on and you will have to water restored to the house, so you could finish running the line to the hose bibb now, or do that at another time.
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dbx - Spam was in reference to the idiot that posted the septic system parts link, not you. As to your questions: I am not a fan of Water Right. They use proprietary (expensive) parts and they tend to sell systems that combine softening resin with carbon, which is just not a good idea. The exStream is not one that I have personal experience with. They use Logix controllers, which do not offer the degree of control I like. They aren't bad controllers, but not as good as Fleck. It is certainly worthwhile to have them both come out and make a recommendation. Once you have quotes, I can help evaluate them if you would like. In either case, you want to have a complete picture of what your water looks like. Get a copy of your city's water report - get several so that you can see if your water has changed over time. With chlorine in your water, you have two reasonable choices. You can removed the chlorine and use a standard quality resin, or you can leave the chlorine and use a resin with higher crosslinking that will better withstand the chlorine. I recommend going with the second option for two reasons: 1) You will maintain some protection from bacterial contamination, 2) Only one piece of equipment to purchase and maintain.
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help with choosing water softener?

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jadeite
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help with choosing water softener?

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jadeite
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