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Help .... anyone using 2cm granite instead of 3cm?

14 years ago

I have found a very beautiful 2cm granite which I love. The problem is that in my area most granite is 3cm. I have been told that I need to put down a underlayment of plywood on my counter tops under the granite. Does anyone know anything about this? What kind of plywood, regular, cabinet quality, marine quality (expensive)? What to do with a 2cm installation?

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Comments (7)

steff_1
14 years ago
We used 2cm granite and really like the results. Does yours have the 4cm edge? That makes a big difference because you need to cover the plywood. We paid the installer to do the plywood. It was an extra $150 for 21 linear feet of counter, two corners, and a sink cut out. It was worth it because the plywood has to be level and the correct depth so we let them be responsible for it. I think they used pretty cheap plywood. There were a few spots you could see the plywood when sitting in the adjacent family room so I used some black wood stain and they disappeared.
sheila99
Original Author
14 years ago
steff, thank you for your response. Yes, the countertops will have laminated edges, which will end up being 4cm. Installers in my area are not familiar with 2cm underlayment as people use 3cm. Another suggestions has been to use strips of the granite on the bottom to support the counter tops. I am at a loss as to what to do!
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HI Mustangs! :) I had a full-height granite backsplash in my former home. It was 3cm...only because that's what they carried. If it's the same as your counters, at least it'll come from the same slab(s) and you'll know it matches. A caution...for some reason, my builder insisted the backsplash go in before my appliance garage, because that's what he "normally" does. Due to the unplanned thickness (most people before me had 4" backsplashes and somehow the appliance garage measurements were "standard"), the sides of my garage had to be cut down to fit flush with the front of the upper cabinet. The extra thickness inside the garage reduced the amount of space I had. Of course the shortfall of space meant my perfectly planned/measured, well-thought out toaster oven purchased specifically for that space...would NOT FIT!! Grrrr....I was so mad!!! Lesson learned. Put in appliance garage before backsplash...regardless of what builder "normally" does. Haha!
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With a mitered edge, the line tends to be hidden on the corner transition. Some of the quartzites are pretty expensive so the 3 cm might cost significantly more (though the fabricator will charge something for the labor of making a laminated edge and probably even more for a mitered edge so that offsets the extra cost of 3 cm unless you go for a 2 cm edge). Our quartzite is laminated, not mitered and the fabricator did a good job so I mostly don't notice the line. Only when I look for it. You don't need to do a laminated edge even if there is plywood under it. Two friends of mine did a 2 cm thin edge. One used a simple trim molding of wood matched to the cabinets to cover the edge of the plywood. The other left the plywood edge uncovered - I know because I put my head under the counter and looked into the shadow for it. If I was doing it, I'd probably cover with a trim piece because it would bother me, but only someone very TKO who looks for it would notice if you didn't.
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Southernstitcher- The guy who is saying he's not going to use a subtop on your 2CM stone obviously has not got a lot of experience behind him. ALL 2CM tops should be installed over a 5/8 inch thick plywood subtop - ACX grade or better (ACX means that one side is sanded very smooth). DO NOT use anything other than plywood for the subtop when installing 2CM thick tops. 3CM does not need a subtop - in all fairness to the situation, maybe your guy meant 3CM..... I have been doing this gig since 1985, and I see failures all the time, where the installers either omitted the subtop on 2CM, or used something like flake board, melmine or OXB, and when that stuff gets wet - it expands. The stone then fractures, and then I get a call to come and look at the nightmare, and offfer my expert forensic opinion on what caused the fracture..... If more guys would do things right, I would not have to inspect as many failures, and hence, be lighter in the bank account..... oh well - you can lead a horse to water...... hth kevin
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My onyx counter is a 2cm slab with no underlayment (you would always want an underlayment with any other stone though). I have an oge edge on the onyx and it's quite lovely. I didn't want to build up the edge since it's goal is to appear to be more furniture like than cabinet like (if that's possible). And I've seen bad onyx edges that show because of the underlighting so I wanted to avoid that. I think the edge is lovely, and have no regrets. I have a mix of 3cm and 4cm thick counters throughout the house, and each fits in the space it was designed for. I think if you design well (ie not like that hanging chad in Blue's old kitchen) 2cm without a built edge would be lovely. Do NOT be tempted to skip a support system though. My onyx counter has very specific rules attached which you would not want in a kitchen. For instance, we can't stand or lean on the middle of it, and shouldn't put heavy weight on any edge (so we have to brace it to hang the curtains before we can get close enough to take them down or put them up). And to put a sculpture on it, we have to add a support collum in the middle or it could crumble into nothing. Only 2 year olds are allowed to dance on it (and they do with great joy). You don't want to limit dancing on your kitchen counters :)
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azstoneconsulting
14 years ago
For 2CM stone countertops - I highly recommend that you use
5/8" ACX grade plywood for subtops - supporting all of the countertops -
NOT STRIPS!!!

If you have fabricators that don;t know how to work with 2CM stone -
you need to find ones that DO KNOW HOW!!!!

Don't hire a general surgeon to do neuro-surgery - or a denitst
to do open heart surgery - their all "Doctors" - but they have
their own area of expertise - hire someone that HAS Experience in
what it is YOU want them to do - it's that simple...

hth

kevin
steff_1
14 years ago
Agree with Kevin's advice. I would not buy from someone who cannot recommend an experienced installer. In our area the 2cm is very common. The granite yard and the installers they sent were clearly experts at this type of installation. There is a lot of work involved in getting granite counters level and hiding the seams. The sink cutout has to match, etc. It did not look like easy work.

If someone in your area is selling the 2cm granite, then there have to be fabricators/installers around who know how to do this. Check Craiglist also.
julie94062
14 years ago
What Kevin and Steff said! Plus the 5/8" plywood needs to be screwed into the cabinet frames. Very common here on the West Coast. I saw very few 3cm. It's mostly 2cm.

To get the edge, another piece of 2cm is added to the bottom.
Example (crescent edge):

How mine turned out:

(Forgive the big pics...haven't figured out how to resize)

And, BTW, I had NO idea about any of this when I started :-)
misplacedtxgal
14 years ago
I just met with my fabricator. I was told that they won't do 2cm anymore. She said that one client called after having a teenager sit on her countertops & they cracked. So if you are set on the 2cm I would think the plywood is must!
azstoneconsulting
14 years ago
Kayl-

Plywood alone WILL NOT PREVENT cracks in the tops!!!

Your fabricator (IMHO) needs to re-think their logic in what they
are doing in relationship to using 2CM thick stone and people
sitting on the countertops....

OF COURSE THE STONE IS GOING TO FRACTURE IF A TEENAGER SITS ON IT!!!

Here's the saying I have for this scenario:

"Countertops are made for Plates & Glasses
NOT for FEET and DIRTY ARSES!!!"

People hve to realize that a countertop is NOT a seating surface!

I will venture a guess that the top that cracked was an overhang
like a breakfast bar - or an area where chairs were under it for a dining
application, and the kid sat on the unsupported top and the stone cracked
where the cabinet line was - I see this all the time on jobsite inspections
that I get called on to do - and have to write an "industry expert opinion"
on WHY the countertop fractured - kind of like CSI for countertops..... HA!

This can be prevented by the proper use of corbels and support of the
assembly with either corbles or counterbalance plates spaced out no more
than 16 inches on center.

Whenever a consumer is going to use 2CM thick stone - IT MUST HAVE A SUBTOP -
and the subtop should be 5/8 inches thick - PLYWOOD - ACX grade...

This has worked for me flawlessly for over 25 years - no failures!!!

Plywood should be used as the subtop in lieu of OXB, Particle Board, Masonite, etc.
It should be screwed down to the cabinets- sanded side down where there
is an overhang - sanded side up on conventional cabinet applications where
the countertop is the depth of the cabinets (plus an overhang of 1 1/2" from
the FACE of the Cabinet frame)

hth

kevin

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